19:02:45 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:02:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Sep 14 19:02:45 2017 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:59 <tarazed_> Yes it is kernels all day tomorrow.
19:03:02 <wilcal> #chair lewyssmith
19:03:02 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal
19:03:34 <lewyssmith> tarazed_: Hello Len.
19:03:44 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
19:03:49 <wilcal> Anyone new here today
19:04:36 <wilcal> Lets move on to something that needs immediate attention
19:04:43 <wilcal> #topic new kernels for testing
19:04:52 <wilcal> The floor is yours tmb
19:05:22 <lewyssmith> tmb: I thought we wer droppping the extra kernels for Mageia 6.
19:05:25 <wilcal> tmb just posted new kernels for testing and is asking us to move quickly on these
19:06:02 <bria_n> I'll do the vbox on mga5 during the meeting, once update applied
19:06:08 <bria_n> then go to hardware
19:06:15 <tarazed_> I have five machines so can cover a bit of hardware
19:06:32 <wilcal> I should be through my testing by Friday evening California time
19:07:41 <bria_n> What flaws are we fixing?
19:07:47 <wilcal> As always I do not consider Vbox on 32-bit platforms as a viable option so I do not test that
19:07:51 <bria_n> I didn't look in the notes - I'll do that
19:07:54 <tmb> lewyssmith, when would that have been discussed ?
19:08:23 <lewyssmith> I just saw a mention somewhere; nothing more. No discussion, nothing formal.
19:08:57 <wilcal> Will this maybe be the last kernels for M5.1?
19:09:17 <tmb> kernel-linus is the upstream reference kernel to do regression testing... kernel-tmb is scaled down to only desktop kernel and carries some stuff too experimental for core kernel
19:09:17 <tarazed_> tmb: you in favour of testing all on mga6?
19:09:17 <bria_n> I have a 32-bit with vbox for mga6.  NOthing for 5
19:09:41 <bria_n> i've got 64-bit mga5 vbox host I can test.
19:09:50 <wilcal> Test if you wish I just don't see that widly adopted
19:10:07 <bria_n> no - 32-bit host to 64-bit vbox is painful
19:10:13 <wilcal> I don't think Intel makes any 32-bit platforms
19:10:25 <tarazed_> tmb: I see you answered my question.
19:10:29 <tmb> note that the "core" kernels are the most important / most urgent ones as most uses them
19:10:31 <bria_n> and I'm down to one box on 32-bit that is vbox host capable
19:10:57 <lewyssmith> bria_n: -5 Not worth it, surely.
19:11:11 <bria_n> good - I'll just do the 64-bit host then on mga5
19:11:21 <bria_n> and the rest on mga6 plus vbox
19:11:35 <tmb> meaning mga6: bug 21708 and mga5: bug 21711
19:11:37 <[mbot> Bug: ['Update request: kernel-4.9.50-1.mga6', 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21708
19:11:38 <[mbot> Bug: ['Update request: kernel-4.4.88-1.mga5', 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21711
19:11:50 <bria_n> anybody got bluetooth working to test the kernel?
19:11:52 <lewyssmith> I do real 64-bit hardware, but it is painful doing kernel updates on some EFI boxes.
19:11:54 <wilcal> I'm about to take my 32-bit boxes to the recycler
19:12:30 <wilcal> Anyway jump on these and lets get them through ASAP
19:12:43 <tarazed_> I am working on bluez just now.  Shall check it against the new kernels.
19:13:05 <bria_n> hmm - maybe I can snatch my son's usb-bluetooth adapter for a couple of hours
19:13:09 <tmb> the bluetooth issue is interesting as you can gain kernel level privilegies with a crafted remote attack _if_ you have bluetooth hw and it's enabled/modules loaded / ..
19:13:26 <wilcal> lets move on
19:13:30 <bria_n> k
19:13:37 <wilcal> #topic post-mortem bullet points
19:13:46 <wilcal> Lemme list what I have
19:13:53 <DavidWHodgins> Sorry I'm late, just got home
19:14:02 <bria_n> David!
19:14:06 <wilcal> Welcome David you arrived at just the right time
19:14:27 <wilcal> Mageia 6 post-mortem bullet points
19:14:29 <wilcal> ----------------------------------
19:14:30 <wilcal> * Plasma was not a mature technology at the time of the M6 development launch.
19:14:32 <wilcal> * Agreement to drop DVD for 64-bit platforms.
19:14:33 <wilcal> * Decide & agree what is to be new or changed in M7.
19:14:35 <wilcal> * Implement these changes *before* starting any generic testing.
19:14:36 <wilcal> * Our stand on 32-bit. Keep for M7 only?
19:14:38 <wilcal> * The forseen ISO set [presume keep the 6 we have].
19:14:39 <wilcal> * Allow the Classic to grow to 4.7Gb (need 8Gb USB).
19:14:41 <wilcal> * Cease to support* (= test) DVD booting on 64-bit ISOs/platforms
19:14:42 <wilcal> * Fewer public pre-releases (Alpha, Beta, RC).
19:14:44 <wilcal> * Do not publish a pre-release schedule.
19:14:45 <wilcal> * Decide on MCC v its new replacement. Do it.
19:14:47 <wilcal> * Decide on NetworkManager v drakwhatsit. Do it.
19:14:48 <wilcal> At least as best I could follow the conversation
19:15:00 <wilcal> these are watered down thoughts more then anything else
19:15:13 <lewyssmith> I recognise these...
19:15:53 <DavidWHodgins> No to the "agreement to drop dvd testing for 64 bit platforms".
19:16:02 <wilcal> FWIW asking technical people to boil things down to a short listing of issues is a challange
19:16:13 <lewyssmith> None of theses points are agreed; they are for discussion.
19:16:28 <bria_n> agree with David on DVD - I still use DVD's for installs and testing
19:16:39 <wilcal> And that is what we were asked for
19:16:51 <DavidWHodgins> We need to test both usb and dvd booting/installs, as missing packages can prevent either one from working. Has happend in the past where one worked and the other didn't
19:17:04 <lewyssmith> See my reply to you.
19:17:18 <wilcal> I kinda think it was targeted at us because we may be the best organized group
19:17:25 <tarazed_> And that works against a 4.7GB classic?
19:17:45 <wilcal> I think that we have to go to 8GB USB sticks
19:18:02 <wilcal> There really is no price difference
19:18:03 <lewyssmith> For the Classic, yes.
19:18:20 <wilcal> Give the developers some space
19:18:24 <tarazed_> So, DVD for ?
19:18:37 <wilcal> That's a problem
19:18:38 <DavidWHodgins> tarazed_: Why wouldn't it? A standard single layer dvd is 4.7gb
19:19:05 <tarazed_> Ah.  Yes.
19:19:12 <DavidWHodgins> That was our target size until we dropped the size to 4GB to fit on usb sticks
19:19:30 <tarazed_> The other way round.  OK
19:19:37 <DavidWHodgins> As 4GB usb sticks are much less common now, we'll go back to standard dvd sizes
19:20:00 <lewyssmith> You propose that...
19:20:02 <DavidWHodgins> The size was reduced in response to bug 11446
19:20:04 <[mbot> Bug: ["consider making the size of the classic installation iso's smaller", 'REOPENED', 'Anne Nicolas'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11446
19:20:06 <bria_n> ok if I vet an opinion for a moment?
19:20:17 <DavidWHodgins> bria_n: Go ahead
19:20:53 <bria_n> we need to keep it at 4.7 GB DVD for certain.  For all else, we'll be getting to out of control download sizes
19:21:09 <bria_n> it wasn't long ago we were bouncing around 3.8 I think
19:21:27 <bria_n> What's getting so huge to require that much more?
19:21:36 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed. Though there are always the net install iso images for those who need a very small iso
19:21:47 <lewyssmith> The Live ISOs will not grow in principle. The Classic with everything is pi,ched.
19:21:53 <DavidWHodgins> bria_n: Software almost never gets smaller
19:22:11 <wilcal> How much can you really get on a DVD?
19:22:16 <bria_n> of course, but it has grown immensely.  MGa5 still had CD
19:22:39 <lewyssmith> Those were special small ISO, English only.
19:22:40 <DavidWHodgins> It's a little under 4.7GB. I'll have to check again to see what the actual limit is, in bytes
19:23:01 <bria_n> so my opinion - keep to dvd or else split out a "house with furniture version"
19:23:20 <lewyssmith> 4.7 Gb will not be a problem.
19:23:27 <wilcal> So we propose isos be something less then 4.7GB. Maybe not fit on a 4GB USB stick but for sure on a 8GB usb stick
19:23:35 <lewyssmith> We have to keep to a DVD for 32-bit Classic.
19:23:38 <DavidWHodgins> Correct
19:23:41 <tarazed_> It gives room for extra drivers amongst other things.
19:23:44 <bria_n> thx - I won't go nuts if it doesn't, but  I think you'll alienate some folks
19:23:57 <lewyssmith> How?
19:24:17 <bria_n> some machines (BIOS) won't do USB
19:24:26 <lewyssmith> Just gpoing from 4Gb to 8Gb USB stick for the Classic?
19:24:35 <lewyssmith> So we offer DVD.
19:24:37 <bria_n> no issues with USB that's all good
19:24:38 <wilcal> That's the one that's headed to the recycler for me
19:24:56 <DavidWHodgins> bria_n: The iso will be slightly too big for a 4GB stick, but still small enough for a dvd
19:25:07 <bria_n> all good then
19:25:07 <lewyssmith> Thanks.
19:25:59 <wilcal> That's the way it will be presented
19:26:09 <DavidWHodgins> That's not a lot more room that what there is now, but every little bit helps
19:26:39 <tmb> we gain ~0.3GB going to DVD size
19:26:50 <lewyssmith> That all?
19:26:52 <bria_n> LOL - half a CD
19:27:28 <tmb> yep, sales number is 4.7, but in reality ~4.3
19:27:44 <lewyssmith> Gloom.
19:28:05 <bria_n> I'm good.
19:28:07 <wilcal> that's about 500MB more then a 4GB USB stick
19:28:42 <bria_n> brb - picking up mga5 4.4.88 on another VM
19:28:44 <DavidWHodgins> According to wiki, 4,700,372,992 bytes
19:29:39 <lewyssmith> The details do not matter here & now. For Anne, much in the future.
19:30:23 <DavidWHodgins> True
19:30:23 <wilcal> so any other thoughts in this add it to the discussion on the qa e-mail list and I'll note it.
19:30:44 <tmb> it will be enough for mga7... for mga8 I assume we get to track what to drop to stay in limit
19:30:46 <wilcal> David you plan on being at that meeting on Tues?
19:30:56 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
19:31:15 <wilcal> My listing is just that thoughts we've gone over
19:31:21 <wilcal> That's what they asked fo
19:31:23 <wilcal> for
19:31:40 <lewyssmith> Other people will have their own ideas.
19:31:51 <wilcal> Absolutely and that's what this is about
19:32:09 <wilcal> I think QA is kinda leading on this one
19:32:20 <lewyssmith> You do not know yet!
19:32:41 <wilcal> We'll see Tues
19:32:42 <DavidWHodgins> The main thing we still need to do for Mageia 6 is get bug 21340 taken care of so we can reopen upgrading using mgaapplet
19:32:43 <[mbot> Bug: ['[TRACKER] Upgrade issues from Mageia 5 to Mageia 6', 'NEW', 'All Packagers'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21340
19:33:14 <wilcal> With that lets move on to
19:33:18 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates & Backports
19:33:30 <bria_n> bck
19:33:33 <wilcal> I've got a couple bugs here we have to make decisions on
19:33:55 <wilcal> Lemme post the first one'
19:33:58 <wilcal> 389 Directory Server
19:34:00 <wilcal> 389-ds-base new security issue
19:34:01 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21671
19:34:03 <wilcal> OK @ 64-bit M5 & M6 Lewis
19:34:03 <[mbot> [ 21671 – 389-ds-base new security issue CVE-2017-7551 ]
19:34:04 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16928#c7 Test procedure.
19:34:06 <wilcal> I tried it. Didn't work. Overly complex.
19:34:06 <[mbot> [ 16928 – 389-ds-base new security issue CVE-2015-3230 ]
19:34:08 <wilcal> What should we do with this one
19:34:30 <lewyssmith> Len & I agree to push it as is.
19:34:44 <wilcal> I love decision makers. Make it so
19:34:49 <wilcal> Then the next one
19:34:55 <lewyssmith> It has got the better of all of us.
19:35:03 <wilcal> Berkeley Database - no procedure
19:35:04 <wilcal> db new security issue (reads DB_CONFIG from cwd)
19:35:06 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21203
19:35:07 <wilcal> OK @ M6 64-bit Lewis
19:35:07 <[mbot> [ 21203 – db new security issue (reads DB_CONFIG from cwd) - CVE-2017-10140 ]
19:35:08 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. One arch testing is good enough for ones like that.
19:35:36 <wilcal> db is one of those career things
19:36:44 <lewyssmith> We need something for M5.
19:37:07 <tarazed_> Good day anaselli
19:37:18 <wilcal> I have no idea how to deal with db
19:37:20 <lewyssmith> 389-ds-base seems to use it; if we could get *thet* to work!
19:37:24 <DavidWHodgins> Don't remember ever seeing that one before. I'll look at it after the kernel testing
19:38:02 <wilcal> Sounds like a plan. so 386 is pushed and db will get looked at by David
19:38:21 <wilcal> more decisions getting made here
19:38:23 <lewyssmith> pjsua 21505 has me beaten.
19:38:42 <wilcal> One of those if it installs cleanly then its a push?
19:39:14 <lewyssmith> If you can get the program to work it is neat to install & test.
19:39:37 <lewyssmith> The fault that stopped me is apparnetly common.
19:40:30 <wilcal> Anyway make the decision on how to test it or just make sure it installs and updates ok
19:40:46 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. voip stuff. Without voip hardware, all we can test is clean install of the update over the prior version
19:40:59 <wilcal> That makes the list pretty short after the kernel testing
19:41:12 <lewyssmith> 389-ds-base just pushed.
19:41:25 <wilcal> good job by all to get this thing down to what it is
19:41:48 <wilcal> That takes us to:
19:41:50 <wilcal> #topic Anything else?
19:41:56 <lewyssmith> QA has achievd great things lately.
19:41:58 <bria_n> one thing for tmb
19:42:04 <wilcal> move this thing along so we can get to the kernels
19:42:21 <bria_n> will usb-bluetooth exercise the modules modified?
19:42:35 <tmb> bria_n, yes
19:42:45 <bria_n> ok - will do that with real hardware
19:43:00 <wilcal> more decision makers :-))
19:43:06 <tarazed_> blueman is useful there
19:43:12 <tmb> many laptops also have bluetooth builtin
19:43:17 <DavidWHodgins> I have no bluethooth devices for testing
19:43:26 <lewyssmith> Nor me.
19:43:26 <wilcal> Neither do I David
19:43:39 <bria_n> yes, but my laptop doesn't.
19:43:44 <DavidWHodgins> I choose to avoid it
19:43:46 <tarazed_> I have several.  Used to it.
19:43:48 <bria_n> Oh I've got bluetooth mice and headphones
19:43:51 <wilcal> Is there such a thing as a USB Bluetooth adaptor?
19:44:06 <wilcal> I've never looked
19:44:09 <tarazed_> Surely.
19:44:09 <tmb> for example if you have a intel 7265 or 8265 wireless, it also has bluetooth
19:44:12 <bria_n> yes - for $8.  Plugs right into a usb port
19:44:17 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: I'm pretty sure there is, but haven't checked
19:44:33 <wilcal> something to tinker with if it's only $8
19:44:46 <tmb> yes, usb bluetooth adapters ca be found from ~10€
19:44:50 <lewyssmith> You need a peripheral, surely.
19:44:56 <tarazed_> I have been using them for years - pretty reliable.
19:45:03 <bria_n> mouse, headphones and other stuff
19:45:09 <bria_n> I'll tinker
19:45:24 <DavidWHodgins> Most phones can support bluetooth too
19:45:30 <wilcal> ok anything else
19:45:36 <DavidWHodgins> Not here
19:45:40 <tarazed_> All my speakers are bluetooth, five of them.
19:45:45 <wilcal> I'm done
19:45:45 <lewyssmith> Not her, apart from ususal thanks to you Bill.
19:45:49 <wilcal> Interesting
19:45:52 <tarazed_> Finished.
19:46:04 <bria_n> ah yes bluetooth speakers laying around too
19:46:08 <wilcal> Very good meeting today
19:46:17 <wilcal> Lots of things got taken care of
19:46:22 <bria_n> I'll tinker and ocument it
19:46:27 <tarazed_> And we did not disagree too much!
19:46:32 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:46:33 <wilcal> You made it for the Count down Ben
19:46:33 <lewyssmith> Goodbye everyone. You too, Ben!
19:46:42 <wilcal> T-5
19:46:48 <wilcal> T-4
19:46:49 <tarazed_> Bye.
19:46:56 <wilcal> T-3
19:47:00 <wilcal> T-2
19:47:03 <wilcal> T-1
19:47:09 <wilcal> #endmeeting