19:10:29 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:10:29 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Jul  5 19:10:29 2016 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:10:29 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:10:43 <ennael> #chair MrsB marja
19:10:43 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: MrsB ennael marja
19:11:01 <ennael> #topic new planning for Mageia 6
19:11:07 <ennael> ok all is in topic :)
19:11:44 <DavidWHodgins> Time for more freezes? Strings, Artwork, Translations?
19:11:49 <ennael> release hell went on and we are not able anymore to release before vacation
19:12:04 <ennael> so the first goal tonight is to plan next releases
19:12:10 <wilcal> repo is still very very dynamic
19:12:18 <Akien> For the reference, I updated the current planning a few days ago on the wiki (without really asking for confirmation but I think what I put should be consensual enough for now - at least better than the outdated schedule): https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_6_Development
19:12:46 <Schultz> if we got for an artwork freeze it will be the first time all the artwork has been after the freeze :)
19:13:28 <marja> Akien: thx
19:13:50 <tmb> well, I have a suggestion...
19:13:53 <Akien> Strings, Artwork and Translations freezes don't particularly help release the stable version, so they're not urgent; they should be placed at the right time to give contributors as much time as possible, and on the other hand not hinder the work of the devs
19:14:03 <marja> tmb: that is?
19:14:20 <Schultz> Akien: wiki looks good
19:14:44 <tmb> tehnically we are only waiting for 2 more things.... kde apps update and kernel 4.7 final...
19:14:46 <MrsB> agree with that Akien, I'd say sta1 is probably about as late as we'd want it though, so it can be tested on different screen sizes etc
19:15:08 <MrsB> sorry, was emailing :)
19:15:09 <wilcal> sta1 needs widespread testing
19:15:21 <MrsB> sta2 i meant to put
19:15:52 <wilcal> 4 present Live-DVD'd needs widespread testing
19:16:00 <tmb> so, next iso up would be an RC (skipping sta2), estimated release end of july, and final release in middle of august
19:16:09 <wilcal> DVD's
19:16:20 <marja> tmb: :-D
19:16:46 <wilcal> I'm not convinced this is going to be stable enough mid Aug for release
19:16:47 <marja> tmb: we didn't investigate what should be set to release blocker, yet
19:17:02 <MrsB> We shouldn't use RC as sta2 imho. It confuses people and could lead to bad reviews.
19:17:14 <MrsB> sta1 was quite unfinished
19:17:25 <DavidWHodgins> I think we should give sta1 testing more time before deciding whether or not to have sta2 skipped or not.
19:17:26 <wilcal> yup
19:17:26 <MrsB> RC should be a candidate for release
19:18:21 <wilcal> today my Plasma x86_64 Vbox clients updated then booted to black screen
19:18:22 <tmb> and before people panicing... some of the amount of time spent stabilizing sta1 is already helping... gnome is stable, plasma is as ~stable as it can get with new cod
19:18:33 <wilcal> the i586's were ok
19:19:10 <wilcal> so these things are very unstable
19:19:33 <Akien> I agree we could try to have a sta2 mid-July as soon as the plasma/kf5 update is stabilized
19:19:56 <MrsB> whatever we do next, skip sta2 or not, the RC should be a proper release candidate.
19:19:57 <tmb> and depenging of when we release RC, if it's good enoungh we finalize and release... if not go for a RC2.....
19:20:04 <DavidWHodgins> That would mean iso images going to qa in a week or so
19:21:05 <Akien> I think it would be nice to have isos by the week-end already if neoclust manages to finish the plasma and qt5 updates in time
19:21:40 <Akien> At this stage we need continuous testing to spot regressions early if any, and ensure that progress is made on the big bugs
19:21:47 <Akien> sta1 worked well for that
19:21:47 <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
19:22:09 <MrsB> well, yes, but testers are people, not robots
19:22:11 <tmb> that's the idea, ... new isos this weekend... I'm just waiting for neoclust to finish kde updates
19:22:34 <wilcal> new Live-DVD's
19:23:27 <tmb> we have found and fixed the install from menu on isos, and today tv closed down the gpt partitioning bug...
19:23:56 <Akien> MrsB: Well having ISOs available for tests in one thing, having them tested is another. I did not suggest that the full QA team should be testing all ISOs at full speed by the week-end - just that we should ensure our ISO spinning process produces ISOs of the quality of at least sta1 at any time
19:24:22 <Akien> s/in one/is one/
19:24:24 <MrsB> that's just changing the words to make it sound nice Akien :P
19:24:36 <wilcal> As always I'll go through them all by Sun eve California time
19:24:40 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:24:47 <MrsB> makes sense to test those fixes though and the team is still engaged..
19:25:36 <Akien> No I'm just advocating for the same thing as I've been over the last few months: having ISOs spinned continuously is best to ensure we can stabilize. There's nothing worse than dev1 ISOs where we realize that everything got broken in a few months :D
19:25:36 <tmb> well I suggested to build isos now, not to have them tested by this weekend :)
19:25:40 <DavidWHodgins> Perhaps we should produce the sta1 iso images, and if qa testing looks good enough, change it to rc before providing them for public testing
19:25:59 <Akien> DavidWHodgins: +1
19:26:12 <Akien> s/sta1/sta2/ I guess ;)
19:26:17 <MrsB> yeah agree with that Dave
19:26:25 <DavidWHodgins> Oops. Yep. Thanks Akien
19:27:04 <tmb> no, they have to be built as RC, as that gets encoded in several places... we cant simple rename isos without rebuilding them...
19:27:43 <ennael> 'because of isos metadata)
19:27:55 <MrsB> I guess if they're too unstable we will need to rebuild them anyway and can decide then
19:27:57 <DavidWHodgins> Clearly rebuilding would be needed, but it isn't unusual to have several rebuilds during qa testing
19:28:04 <Akien> I guess we should try to review the release blockers asap and see if we can reasonably count on having a RC as next step
19:28:15 <MrsB> indeed
19:28:31 <tmb> and we can have more than one RC if needed...
19:28:49 <tmb> heck even fedora did a RC1.5 :)
19:29:20 <Akien> Yeah we're mostly talking semantics :p The idea is just that if RC1 is bad, it shouldn't have been a RC :p Typically "RC" is the signal for users that they can start testing the stable system
19:29:21 <tmb> pinit is we have ~3 weeks to stabilize RC
19:29:38 <tmb> *point
19:29:38 <DavidWHodgins> Then let's plan for the next iso images to be RC, with it clear that RC2 will be added, if needed
19:29:41 <MrsB> At least calling it RC shows we're moving forward at a pace. I wouldn't advocate misusing the RC name though. It has to be RC ready before we release one of those.
19:29:52 <Akien> But we can start with RC isos, and if they're bad and we still want to release them, we respin them as sta2 :p
19:30:15 <marja> #info a reminder that we need to check which bugs need to be set to release blocker (severe bugs that cannot be fixed after release)
19:30:37 <MrsB> this ^^ before we talk about continuous testing
19:31:29 <tmb> And post on dev to ask people to start upgrade testings with netinstalls to weed out upgrade bugs...
19:31:58 <MrsB> Charles has been doing a good job of that so far :)
19:32:28 <Akien> Indeed, we fixed quite a few conflicts thanks to his tests
19:32:34 <tmb> yeah, but thats only "one" tester... we need different hw, different installs, different usecases...
19:32:50 <Akien> Each Plasma update brings new conflicts though... so I'm expecting a couple new ones :)
19:33:01 <MrsB> yeah, it's usually aroun this time we begin that, when versions settle somewhat
19:33:57 <wilcal> Still lots of wrinkles in Plasma
19:33:59 <tmb> yeah, we dont really plan to allow much more big changes anymore
19:34:06 <MrsB> #info upgrade testing to begin
19:34:49 <MrsB> Can we promise to have OpenQA up and running before mga7 ISOs?
19:34:52 <tmb> wilcal, yeah and they will be there in mga6.... plasma is a different beast from kde... you cant expect everything to behave the same...
19:35:25 <Akien> wilcal, tmb: Indeed, there are still a few packaging things to improve, but globally 90% of bugs are upstream bugs
19:35:50 <Akien> For many users I think they will experience Plasma 5 as a small step backwards... but it should of course get much better by Mageia 7
19:36:21 <DavidWHodgins> Not really any worse than the switch to kde4 from the prior version
19:36:21 <tmb> otoh, Gnome is the best it has been for several releases :)
19:36:24 <Akien> That will give other DEs some space to shine if Plasma makes unhappy users :p
19:36:33 <Akien> DavidWHodgins: yep
19:36:41 <wilcal> Amazing Gnome is very mature in M6
19:36:44 <SebthreeBQM10HD> GNOME is good ::)
19:36:56 <Akien> That's refreshing to read :D
19:37:55 <SebthreeBQM10HD> GNOME is good and whatever to the KDE people :D
19:38:01 <tmb> so do we agree on starting RCs, and then have weekly council bug reviews ?
19:38:07 <MrsB> yep, ok
19:38:10 <DavidWHodgins> Ok with me
19:38:13 <Akien> Fine by me
19:38:15 <marja> fine
19:38:24 <wilcal> ok by me
19:38:29 <MrsB> I'd like to get the release blocker list done first though if possible
19:38:44 <MrsB> see whather it's worth building or fixing first
19:38:53 <MrsB> -a +e
19:39:50 <tmb> could someone go through the blocker bugs and post a list to qa ml (with cc dev?)
19:39:53 <Akien> #action Akien (+ bugsquad) start an initial list of release blocker bugs to evaluate how close/far we are to RC-ready
19:40:21 <Akien> Not sure I can #action stuff, MrsB please action it for me :p
19:40:39 <MrsB> Everything is still pretty fluid still so I don't think there i smuch point at this stage in defining a schedule. We can maybe revisit that idea when we see where we're at
19:40:53 <MrsB> #action Akien (+ bugsquad) start an initial list of release blocker bugs to evaluate how close/far we are to RC-ready
19:41:09 <tmb> MrsB, that's why I said a fuzzy "end of july" estimate
19:41:14 <tmb> :)
19:41:14 <marja> Akien: the list of 6sta1 bugs is https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=6sta1 .... I'm not sure all currently valid bugs got 6sta1 as keyword, though
19:41:26 <MrsB> yeah, let's keep that internal though until we know more
19:42:42 <Akien> marja: Thanks :)
19:42:47 <Akien> 97 bugs \o/
19:42:55 <tmb> yeah, its just so people working on fixing/testing stuff have a suggested timeline to obey or we'll slip even more
19:43:11 <MrsB> #info a fuzzy sort-of-ish hopefully end of july estimate maybe possibly aiming for final release
19:43:42 <tmb> MrsB, that was RC, final was suggested in middle of august :)
19:43:51 <MrsB> oops
19:43:54 <MrsB> #undo
19:43:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0xb6862d6c>
19:44:01 <MrsB> #info a fuzzy sort-of-ish hopefully end of july estimate maybe possibly aiming for RC release
19:44:08 <MrsB> that sounds more doable
19:45:12 <tmb> yeah, I really want the ~3 weeks to do an RC so we dont kill people, and they can have some vacation / enjoy summer too
19:45:17 <MrsB> Is there anything else we need to talk about regarding ISOs? We'll do artwork next
19:45:40 <wilcal> not from me
19:45:54 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here about iso images
19:45:54 <MrsB> s/vacation/fit a new bathroom & toilet/
19:45:59 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:46:24 <MrsB> Schultz ready?
19:46:25 <tmb> MrsB, yeah, whatever gets you through the summer :)
19:46:56 <MrsB> #topic Artwork contest
19:47:14 <MrsB> ennael had to step away but will be back as soon as she can
19:47:16 <Schultz> Yep, I'm awake
19:47:40 <Schultz> No worries, for reference, this is how the results are right now
19:47:58 <Schultz> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R83AHiju0kl9C720mqCiowVvuP7vemyiskTwFxyGVO8/edit?usp=sharing
19:47:59 <[mbot> [ Mageia 6 Voting - Google Tabellen ]
19:48:34 <Schultz> look under the council results, does anyone else still want to vote of should I just call it now?
19:48:41 <Luigi12_work> or for a more clear version: https://ethercalc.org/mga6-backgroundvote-council
19:48:43 <[mbot> [ EtherCalc - Share the URL to your friends and edit together! ]
19:48:55 <Luigi12_work> the winner hasn't changed in the last 3 people to vote, I guess you can call it (it's a landslide anyway)
19:49:51 <MrsB> your decision Schultz
19:50:04 <Schultz> Yeah true on both counts, I think my dissertation focus is spilling over into other things...
19:50:28 <Akien> Schultz: Hehe nice graphics :)
19:50:44 <Akien> Looks like we have a clear winner indeed
19:50:49 <Schultz> yep, don't let engineers near any spreadsheets
19:51:03 * MrsB hates them
19:51:25 <MrsB> spreadsheets, not backgrounds
19:51:25 <Schultz> only way I can tolerate them is that we have Matlab...
19:51:34 <tmb> so wich one is the winner ?
19:51:37 <Akien> MrsB: Hehe
19:51:41 <Akien> This is the winner: http://pasteboard.co/NazIPzQe.png
19:52:02 <Akien> (mga6-background-6.png)
19:52:16 <Luigi12_work> yep, it's pretty nice
19:52:20 <DavidWHodgins> Looks good to me
19:52:22 <MrsB> Great, well done on managing all that. It got quite complicated.
19:52:23 <Luigi12_work> the top 3 vote-getters were all strong candidates
19:52:31 <Schultz> Anyway, coling wilcal tmb maat doktor5000 Manuel and isadora still to vote
19:52:40 <tmb> why ? it has the biggest number, but its most numer 1 that counts ... or is it calculated ?
19:52:49 <Luigi12_work> tmb: 1 means first place
19:52:53 <Luigi12_work> we only ranked our top 5
19:52:58 <Luigi12_work> so you can't just add numbers
19:53:12 <wilcal> I'm for all of'em not a good art critic. Born Engineer :-))
19:53:12 <Luigi12_work> so, 5=1, 4=2, 3=3, 2=4, 1=5 for points
19:53:19 <MrsB> gah!
19:53:25 <Akien> Luigi12_work: yeah :)
19:53:29 <Luigi12_work> we'd have to rank all 11 if we wanted to go golf scores
19:53:38 <marja> lol
19:53:45 <Luigi12_work> it's true
19:53:49 <tmb> that's why I asked to confirm ir was calculated to correct form most wanted :)
19:53:57 <Schultz> calculated, used my full programing knowledge for it too :)
19:54:03 <Luigi12_work> nice
19:54:27 <Luigi12_work> maybe next time we can just have the council vote on all 30 submissions and they have to rank all 30, that will be less confusing
19:54:29 <Luigi12_work> I'm just kidding
19:54:33 <Akien> Hehe
19:54:37 <DavidWHodgins> Who submitted that one?
19:54:47 <MrsB> Are there plans to package the remaining choices in an -extra type package?
19:54:49 <Schultz> Ill just check flickr
19:54:55 <Akien> I think it's made by a user of the French MLO forum
19:55:01 <Schultz> yep, the 11 will be in the extra
19:55:01 <MrsB> Also we need to send goodies
19:55:02 <Luigi12_work> MrsB: I like that idea, I was wondering about that too
19:55:04 <Akien> The same one who did the round sphere backgrounds
19:55:05 <Luigi12_work> nice
19:55:27 <MrsB> do blog post, interview the creator etc
19:55:29 <Luigi12_work> ahh the Firefox logoish ones
19:55:36 <Akien> Yeah :D
19:56:05 <Schultz> jacques Daugeron
19:56:37 <Schultz> Still trying to work out where all our goodies are to put something together, I'll try and get something done soon
19:56:51 <MrsB> #info Congratulations to Jacques Daugeron for winning the artwork contest, and thankyou to all who participated!
19:56:58 <Akien> \o/
19:57:05 <Luigi12_work> yeah you da man!
19:57:25 <MrsB> #info remaining artwork will be packaged in an -extra type package for people to use if they wish too
19:57:25 <Schultz> Yep, thanks everyone, and apologies again for a voting system from hell
19:57:36 <Luigi12_work> nah, it was only from purgatory
19:57:47 <MrsB> any plans to send goodies Schultz?
19:58:02 <Schultz> At least it was probably fairer than the recent British elections, more honest at least
19:58:06 <marja> MrsB: 2016:07:05:21:56 < Schultz> Still trying to work out where all our goodies are to put something together, I'll try and get something  done soon
19:58:14 <MrsB> oh, missed that sorry
19:58:28 <MrsB> I think Anne has most of them
19:59:06 <Schultz> thats good to know, still want to try and make a tracker for the goodies we have
19:59:39 <MrsB> please pass on our thanks, as a council
19:59:51 <MrsB> to everyone
19:59:57 <Schultz> Now that we have the winner, I guess I need to fix Cauldron and actually get a working ssh session going
20:00:09 <Schultz> Yep, writing an announcement on the group now
20:00:27 <MrsB> You think you'll be able to get them into the next isos?
20:00:45 <Akien> Maybe not for the first spin this week-end, but before the RC release definitely IMO
20:00:53 <MrsB> or one of the builds at least
20:01:39 <MrsB> that dissertation thing can wait ;)
20:02:12 <marja> Schultz: if you get a message about "2016:07:05:21:56 < Schultz> Still trying to work out where all our goodies are to put something together, I'll try and get something  done soon
20:02:16 <Luigi12_work> hehe.  A master's thesis was bad enough for me.
20:02:16 <marja> oops
20:02:20 <marja> wrong pate
20:02:23 <marja> paste
20:02:54 <MrsB> they're always best completed the night before nayway I'm told
20:03:24 <Akien> MrsB: Yeah, especially the last 20 pages :p
20:03:34 <MrsB> save some for the morning
20:03:52 <Schultz> Well I seem to be being pretty creative in finding things to procrastinate with, so I will have something I'm sure, and my kitchen floor will appreciate me not ripping any more tiles off it
20:03:54 <marja> Schultz: if you get an error about "Error: Problem adding; giving up", then start a session in a VT (tty2 or so) ... it'll most likely work there, and it ssh forwarding then works in Konsole
20:05:00 <Schultz> its not that, its more than my install was cloned and resized through 3 different disks and none of the mount points were fixed when I put a second drive in my laptop. I'm sure it will be fine if I just start again
20:05:21 <marja> Schultz: good luck :-)
20:05:51 <Akien> MrsB: I guess you can #action that atelier should make a blog post asap about the artwork contest results
20:06:07 <Schultz> yeah please do
20:07:28 <MrsB> #action Atelier to write blog post about artwork contest / inteview creator / find goodies, pass on thanks and etc :)
20:07:35 <MrsB> hows that?
20:07:40 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:07:43 <Akien> Great :)
20:08:02 <Schultz> thanks
20:08:08 <MrsB> great, well done
20:08:24 <MrsB> SO I think that only leaves..
20:08:26 <papoteur> thanks Schultz
20:08:39 <MrsB> #topic Anything else?
20:08:45 <MrsB> Is there anything else?
20:08:46 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here
20:08:53 <marja> sleep :-)
20:08:54 <Akien> Yep, two things
20:08:55 <Schultz> hopefully nest time it will all be internal when it comes to hosting and voting :)
20:08:59 <wilcal> Not for me. Wait'n for the new iso's
20:09:04 <MrsB> go on Akien
20:09:05 <Akien> Finalizing the update of the mga-council LDAP group
20:09:44 <MrsB> tmb: ^^
20:09:45 <Akien> We still have previous council members in the group, and admel out of it (meaning he can't post on council@ AFAIK)
20:09:51 <Akien> See http://people.mageia.org/g/mga-council.html
20:09:52 <[mbot> [ people.mageia.org: g/mga-council ]
20:10:06 <MrsB> that's not good :\
20:10:22 <marja> https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/sysadmin-discuss/2016-06/msg00017.html
20:10:23 <[mbot> [ sysadmin-discuss - Sysadmin team discussions - arc_protect ]
20:10:24 <tmb> do we have a final list who should be there
20:10:40 <marja> tmb in that mail ^^^
20:11:14 <tmb> ah, ok... will fix tomorrow
20:11:18 <Akien> Thanks :)
20:11:32 <Akien> Second additional topic from me is finalizing the new Board
20:11:49 <Akien> We need two things:
20:11:53 <Akien> 1) Update the mga-board group: http://people.mageia.org/g/mga-board.html
20:11:54 <[mbot> [ people.mageia.org: g/mga-board ]
20:11:59 <Schultz> Thanks for that on the council Akien, I meant to bring it up
20:12:15 <Akien> 2) Elect/choose a president, secretary and treasurer
20:12:26 <Akien> Best do 2) once 1) was done, so that it can be done on the board ML
20:12:35 <MrsB> yep
20:12:48 <marja> Akien: or for 2) consider sharing positions
20:12:57 <tmb> aother one for tomorrow todo list
20:13:05 <Akien> tmb: I'll send another email to the sysadmin ML with the list of changes to make
20:13:17 <tmb> Akien, Thanks
20:13:20 <MrsB> #action tmb to update council and board groups
20:13:32 <MrsB> thanks akien and tmb
20:13:48 <Akien> marja: Yeah that's something to discuss in the board, but I'm also favorable to sharing positions/having deputies for at least treasurer and secretary
20:13:55 <MrsB> Sooo is there anything else else?
20:14:01 <Akien> No more from me :)
20:14:16 <DavidWHodgins> Countdown time
20:14:24 <MrsB> Ohh can we have one in council?
20:14:32 <MrsB> Thanks for coming everybody
20:14:33 <marja> sure :-)
20:14:34 <DavidWHodgins> Sure, why not
20:14:40 <MrsB> T - 5 then :)
20:14:43 <MrsB> 4
20:14:44 <MrsB> 3
20:14:46 <MrsB> 2
20:14:47 <MrsB> 1
20:14:49 <MrsB> #endmeeting