19:13:57 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:13:57 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Sep  1 19:13:57 2015 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:13:57 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:14:07 <ennael> hi all
19:14:25 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa
19:14:32 <ennael> hope you are all ok :)
19:15:02 <marja> ennael: hope you are, too :-)
19:15:03 <ennael> I'd like to propose each team to speak about the current activities, maybe a sum up of post mortem, current actions...
19:16:22 <ennael> is it ok.
19:16:23 <ennael> ?
19:16:23 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Can you speak for qa? I've been too sick to keep up with what's going on.
19:16:35 <wilcal> I can
19:16:40 <Akien> ennael: sounds good to me
19:16:49 <ennael> ok :)
19:16:58 <ennael> wilcal is a volunteer :p
19:17:03 <ennael> #topic QA team
19:17:10 <ennael> wilcal: your turn then :)
19:17:36 <wilcal> OK. The extremely long list of bugs to be validated has been worked down to just a long list
19:18:16 <wilcal> Since Summer is kinda behind us I anticipate more people resources to keep the list manageab;e
19:18:47 <wilcal> We are also really counting on M4 going EOL as anticipated I think on 17 or 19 Sept
19:18:59 <wilcal> That will take some of the pressure off
19:19:02 <DavidWHodgins> 19th
19:19:12 <ennael> yep ok
19:19:47 <wilcal> I would ask the developers to watch whatever bugs they have for validation to make sure QA is not waiting for something
19:19:50 <ennael> #info updates list decreased a lot, waiting for EOL of mga4 planned for September 19th
19:20:19 <wilcal> That's pretty much it in a nut shell
19:21:11 <marja> a bit related... now that Luigi12_work is pretty much alone, do security updates still get packaged fast enough?
19:21:14 <wilcal> Kudos to the QA team for once again a super job
19:21:40 <ennael> indeed
19:21:52 <wilcal> I'll have to ask David to answer that one
19:22:26 <marja> Luigi12_work: or are you around?
19:22:27 <Akien> From what I can see David still does his job pretty well, but he seems indeed to have much on his hands
19:22:30 <wilcal> QA has responded to critical updates very fast
19:22:44 <wilcal> One a Firefox update just a day ago got pushed in hours
19:22:53 <marja> nice :-)
19:23:21 <wilcal> And we're get'n really good at the bi-weekly Flash disaster  :-)
19:23:28 <marja> lol
19:23:36 <ennael> :)
19:23:41 <Luigi12_work> hello
19:23:48 <ennael> Firefox was indeed nicely managed
19:23:48 <marja> Luigi12_work: hi
19:24:14 <Luigi12_work> the intent of my job was never to package all of the security updates myself to begin with
19:24:24 <Luigi12_work> it was to track which security updates are *needed* in Mageia
19:24:31 <Luigi12_work> I just packaged a lot of them too to speed the process along
19:24:40 <Luigi12_work> somewhere along the way, this turned into everyone expecting me to do everything myself
19:24:54 <ennael> this can be a reminder on packagers team
19:24:55 <Luigi12_work> which I cannot do, and I've been much busier the last few months than I've been before that
19:25:04 <ennael> Akien: a note for us :)
19:25:08 <Luigi12_work> so I can't package all of the updates or even try to anymore, I just don't have the time
19:25:13 <wilcal> So this should be the task of the packaging team
19:25:20 <Luigi12_work> and I'll have even less time going forward
19:25:27 <Luigi12_work> so I need more support from the packager team
19:25:50 <wilcal> Can we have some feedback from the packager team on this issue for the next meeting here
19:26:02 <ennael> see my note to Akien above
19:26:05 <Akien> Yes, that's already the case but it should be made clearer that packagers are _expected_ to work on security updates
19:26:19 <marja> maybe we could add it to what apprentices need to do to become a full packager: correctly commit at least one security update (+ bug report + advisory etc)
19:26:44 <Luigi12_work> I think the apprentice list is long enough now
19:26:53 <Luigi12_work> and most of them do usually end up helping with one security update
19:26:55 <Akien> Most of the time maintainers do the packaging work after they've been asked a couple of times, but the big issue is that most packages are nobody's
19:27:09 <Luigi12_work> nobody or inactive packagers
19:27:14 <Akien> And then most packagers tend to assume that the security maintainer for nobody's packages is David...
19:27:28 <wilcal> It should not be that way
19:27:45 <Akien> (me included, when it's a package for which I have absolutely no clue...)
19:28:52 <Akien> So to improve this I think we could work on making it clearer to all packagers that they *have* to due security packaging too
19:29:08 <Akien> Sander's reports and subsequent package drops help with that already
19:29:26 <Luigi12_work> yep, it's much appreciated
19:29:28 <Akien> But I guess ennael and I could try to emphasize the need a bit more
19:29:34 <ennael> regular meetings will help
19:29:38 <Akien> Indeed
19:29:50 <ennael> could be one topic for a meeting
19:29:58 <ennael> "how do I handle sec update"
19:30:25 <Akien> Another thing I'm hoping for would be that "maintainer teams" could help with reducing the number of nobody packages, and hence the number of security issues that only David has a look at
19:30:54 <Akien> Yes we could have a meeting with David as key speaker to explain his workflow
19:31:20 <ennael> yep
19:31:29 <ennael> not sure everybody knows how to do it
19:33:30 <Akien> I guess that's it for QA + security
19:33:31 <ennael> #info more explanation to be given about sec updates workflow and who is doing what
19:33:40 <Akien> Who's next?
19:33:46 <Sebsebsebbb> Hi
19:33:57 <ennael> i18n people around?
19:34:37 <Akien> Latte: ping
19:34:51 <Akien> Though I'm around too for i18n :)
19:35:15 <marja> ah, yes, you're interim deputy
19:35:19 <ennael> ok then )
19:35:19 <ennael> :)
19:35:24 <ennael> #topic i18n team
19:36:03 <Akien> So basically for i18n it's business as usual. Translators continue working at their pace, most of them via Transifex, and ask Yuri and Filip to push their changes to git
19:36:40 <Akien> There have been a couple of translation bugfixes too lately, nicely handled by Filip not to break existing translations :)
19:36:49 <Latte> oh hi
19:36:54 <Latte> sorry
19:37:05 <marja> Latte: welcome
19:37:18 <Akien> The postmortem section is empty, but we might also have forgotten to tell translators about it... *hides*
19:37:48 <wilcal> If someone were to ask you how many languages is Mageia available in what would be the answer.
19:38:21 <ennael> :)
19:38:21 <Latte> I'm very sorry not be very present the last weeks - I hardly manage to follow any ml
19:38:24 <Akien> That's a very good question, and not so easy to answer.
19:38:58 <Akien> Via its Mandriva heritage, Mageia is available in many languages (at the time of the fork we said "167 languages", though I never checked)
19:39:06 <wilcal> One number I saw was about 170
19:39:30 <Akien> Now, we have way less active translation teams, so I'd say we have maybe 20 to 30 maintained translations
19:39:51 <wilcal> Is there an official listing somewhere?
19:39:52 <Akien> The rest are still usable, but would have English strings for all strings that were changed since the fork
19:39:54 <ennael> shall we plan some cleaning?
19:40:16 <marja> but for some languages, like Frysian and Limburguish, if you select them in installer you get a message our tools don't have the language and installer uses English instead
19:40:26 <marja> Frisian
19:41:17 <Akien> Actually I think the initial "170" is nonsense, like marja said it probably accounts for "symlinks" :)
19:41:27 <Akien> The complete list is here: https://www.transifex.com/MageiaLinux/mageia/
19:42:36 <Akien> So counting only languages > 50% complete, we have 36 languages
19:42:53 <Akien> Of those, by a quick glance I'd say 2/3 have active translation teams
19:43:01 <ennael> could we plan a blog post on i18n work and tools?
19:43:16 <Akien> Yes, good idea.
19:43:51 <Akien> I don't think we need to clean old translations; it's probably best to have a half translated system as a system not translated at all (at least for people who don't read English)
19:44:08 <marja> Akien: I agree fully with that
19:44:19 <Akien> And half translated stuff should also encourage potential translators to help us ;)
19:44:29 <marja> indeed :-)
19:44:38 <Akien> But we should review this "167 languages" stat that we show on the website and wiki
19:44:45 <Akien> It's completely wrong :)
19:44:53 <marja> it is
19:45:07 <Akien> Apart from that, some teams are really eager to translate the wiki :)
19:45:47 <Akien> Having the wiki upgraded and with the translate extension will likely be the main request of i18n for this release cycle
19:46:05 <Akien> That plus some automatisation between Tx and git to make the workflow more flexible
19:46:54 <Akien> The first point needs a VM upgrade IIRC, so it's fully dependent of the sysadmins. The second point requires mostly a meeting between some i18n gurus and coling :)
19:47:18 <ennael> ok let me try to poke admins
19:47:54 <marja> Akien: when we start using the translate extension, we're getting used to translatewiki..... we might end up moving all translation work there in the end
19:48:33 <marja> Akien: which wouldn't be bad, since translatewiki is completely open source
19:49:30 <Akien> That might be worth looking into, at least to know how it would work
19:49:31 <marja> Akien: only mentioning it before someone invests too much time in Tx synchronisation
19:49:45 <Akien> Though I'm not particularly looking forward to yet another migration :p
19:50:51 <ennael> #action plan a blog post about work and tools for i18n team
19:50:55 <marja> Akien: of course not .... but for translators with time, they could already practice by translating mediawiki strings in translatewiki (since those strings will end up in our wiki, too)
19:52:14 <marja> not true: I meant the strings for the interface, not for the pages
19:52:22 <ennael> #action  check with sysadmins about wiki upgrade to support multi languages
19:54:56 <marja> tmb knows, mentioning it in case another sysadmin looks into it: nikerabbit from upstream is willing to help
19:55:21 <ennael> that would be great
19:55:25 <marja> from upstream mediawiki (and he's the author of the translate extension)
19:56:17 <Akien> Yes, though the first step is an infra upgrade, so nikerabbit can't help yet.
19:56:25 <marja> indeed
19:57:17 * marja hopes the infra will be split, too so that partial access can be given when useful
20:00:13 * marja understood or dreamt that people like Luigi12_work and wally would be willing to help with sysadmin tasks
20:00:49 <marja> when it is no longer "no access or access to everything", that would be easier
20:02:33 <Akien> Indeed
20:02:42 <Akien> Should we move to the next team?
20:02:51 * marja hides
20:03:03 <ennael> sorry pb with connection
20:03:06 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:03:08 <ennael> packagers team ?
20:03:10 <marja> ennael: np
20:03:58 <Akien> ennael: Yep
20:04:36 <ennael> #topic packagers team
20:05:06 <ennael> here we go :)
20:05:25 <Akien> ennael: your turn :p
20:06:00 <ennael> so basicaly we tried to speak about current team status
20:07:44 <ennael> we need to relaunch regular meetings
20:08:08 <ennael> maybe different way of handling it. For example propose sepcific topic for a meeting
20:09:26 <ennael> also relaunch mentoring
20:10:26 <ennael> we will work also on building a team focused on drakx tools
20:10:37 <marja> \o/
20:11:01 <ennael> mainly to help on developing, fixing and finding more functionnalities
20:15:17 <ennael> we will work also on sec updates pb and see how we can communicate and hire more people
20:15:53 <Akien> Yes, and we need to find how to recreate some momentum and get a lively dev and packaging team working on this Mageia 6 :)
20:16:07 <ennael> yep
20:16:18 <Akien> Another release cycle like Mageia 5's would be pretty damaging to the project as a whole IMO.
20:17:35 <papoteur> It's a big program ;)
20:18:03 <Akien> Indeed :)
20:18:24 <ennael> yep imply, communicate, motivate
20:18:26 <Akien> So ennael and I will likely need all the help we can get
20:18:41 <marja> yep!
20:18:46 <Akien> We'll try to spark the fire, but we need everybody to blow on it :)
20:19:14 <Akien> (ennael always has her matches nearby :p)
20:19:24 <ennael> indeed gnarc
20:21:00 <ennael> we should plan first meeting next week
20:21:10 <ennael> same hour same day?
20:21:19 <marja> fine with me
20:21:33 <marja> and probably good for maat :-)
20:21:57 <Akien> First dev meeting you mean?
20:21:58 <marja> although he isn't a packager, is he?
20:22:00 <Akien> Good idea
20:22:01 <ennael> Akien: yep
20:22:31 <ennael> Akien: let see after meeting how to write the mail for it
20:23:22 <ennael> Akien: anything else for packagers?
20:24:06 <Akien> I still need to bug them to write feature requests :)
20:24:33 <ennael> ok
20:24:44 <ennael> next, docteam?
20:24:45 <Akien> Apart from that, Cauldron is already pretty broken, so packagers are still doing their job :p
20:24:50 <ennael> :))
20:25:24 <Akien> Break, repair, stabilise, break, repair, stabilise. That's a silly workflow, but quite funny :p
20:25:36 <marja> lebarhon: papoteur: do you have things to add for docteam, to what was said last meeting (or the one before)?
20:25:53 <wilcal> I try to install Cauldron about 1x/wk from boot.iso   No success yet
20:25:55 <marja> apart from longing for the wiki upgrade ;-)
20:26:23 <wilcal> When will KDE Plasma5 be in there
20:26:26 <papoteur> Hello
20:27:19 <marja> wilcal: it is already in cauldron, works pretty well here (some tweaking of xorg conf needed on intel)
20:27:34 <papoteur> I had some rest in summer, and lebarhon does a page for installation Mafgeia alongside Windows 8+
20:28:14 <marja> thx
20:28:31 <lebarhon> We need somebody to check modifications in the "official doc" about UEFI
20:28:32 <papoteur> We hope also some news aabout updating the wiki.
20:29:25 <lebarhon> There are still some questions about dual boot Mageia/Windows8
20:29:41 <lebarhon> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_in_dual_boot_with_Windows8_and_over
20:31:01 <lebarhon> and we are waiting for the new wiki, we already spoke about it
20:31:37 <ennael> ok we can add some of these topics to packagers meeting
20:31:56 <marja> lebarhon: thx for your work on that page
20:32:03 <papoteur> Juergen added a page on transferring files with an Android device.
20:32:06 <papoteur> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/File_transfer_with_Android_devices
20:32:25 <lebarhon> David started to check it and Papoteur also
20:32:39 <papoteur> Everyone can also check it.
20:33:07 <marja> that's a great job of Juergen (and those who helped him)
20:34:02 <lebarhon> there is a new fr team very active to translate the wiki
20:34:21 <marja> :-)
20:35:37 <papoteur> I think it's all for documentation.
20:35:51 <papoteur> lebarhon: ?
20:35:52 <marja> wilcal: sorry, misunderstood your question.... you could do a minimal install and then install task-plasma5 to get it
20:36:27 <lebarhon> papoteur: Yes, indeed
20:36:31 <ennael> ok
20:36:51 <wilcal> ahh so install xfce first i suspect
20:37:27 <marja> wilcal: for instance, but plasma5 should indeed be added to the desktop selection screen
20:37:52 <marja> or better, replace KDE4 there
20:38:27 <wilcal> last week I could'nt get xfce to install
20:38:36 <wilcal> using boot.iso
20:38:36 <ennael> ok any other representative around?
20:38:47 <wilcal> I have something for marketing
20:38:57 <wilcal> and the rest of us
20:39:09 <marja> ennael: for Bugsquad, I prefer to discuss with Stormi first about what to report :-)
20:39:22 <ennael> ok :) no pb
20:39:30 <marja> wilcal: what's that?
20:39:45 <wilcal> I am in contact with the officials at:
20:39:46 <wilcal> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/14x
20:39:47 <[mbot> [ SCALE 14x | 14x ]
20:39:48 <wilcal> Jan 21 -> 24 2016
20:39:49 <wilcal> I am anticipating that Mageia will be granted a "non-profit/community generated"
20:39:51 <wilcal> status and will be offered a 10ftx10ft space to exhibit. I've been to a number
20:39:52 <wilcal> of Linux Expos here in the States and SCALE ranks right up there with the largest.
20:39:54 <wilcal> Yes, this is the week before FOSDEM in Brussels. As I move forward I'll work
20:39:55 <wilcal> with Mageia as to what should be exhibited. At this point I don't anticipate
20:39:57 <wilcal> any expenses on Mageias part.
20:41:00 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Perhaps preparing dvds to give away.
20:41:04 <marja> wilcal: nice
20:41:20 <wilcal> Lets see what we have by that time.
20:41:28 <ennael> great
20:41:47 <wilcal> A few to give out every day otherwise we'd need a truck load
20:41:57 <wilcal> It's a big show
20:42:30 <wilcal> Gotta work with marketing on a tri-fold with where to get the iso's
20:44:29 <papoteur> wilcal: will you have some help or are alone?
20:44:31 <ennael> just ping if you need some materials for it
20:44:52 <wilcal> will do as we get closer. Will follow with what's being done for FOSDEM
20:45:01 <marja> wilcal: maybe diogenese would be interested in helping you with the stand?
20:45:12 <wilcal> I'd be nice to have some help and a couple people offered a few months ago
20:45:23 <wilcal> yes dio was one that offered
20:45:27 <marja> nice
20:45:51 <wilcal> Otherwise i'm gonna hire some "booth babes" :-))
20:46:06 <DavidWHodgins> lol
20:46:09 <wilcal> I've done that before
20:46:21 <wilcal> Did it in Paris once
20:47:12 <ennael> you did like booth babe ?
20:47:32 <papoteur> ennael: ;)
20:47:41 <wilcal> good ones, not dumb ones, cost a lot of Euros/Dollars
20:47:52 <wilcal> Best ones are in Las Vegas
20:48:17 <wilcal> There's booth dudes too
20:49:20 <Akien> The best booth attendants are Mageia contributors and users though :)
20:49:40 <wilcal> Absolutely
20:49:50 <wilcal> best ones are ennael and tmb
20:50:36 * ennael cannot dance or sing
20:50:55 <wilcal> Doing slick card tricks are a good draw
20:51:15 <ennael> anything else? comment? question ?
20:51:17 <wilcal> FWIW I've done 100's of trade shows going back into the early 70's
20:51:21 <marja> card tricks with kpatience?
20:51:22 <wilcal> I'm done
20:52:29 <marja> thx wilcal :-)
20:53:02 <papoteur> ennael: about Solution Linux ?
20:53:57 <ennael> well we have booked a booth
20:54:24 <ennael> we will see how to organize this
20:54:28 <ennael> call for volunteers also
20:54:47 <papoteur> We have to writea post on MLO.
20:54:52 <ennael> yep
20:55:20 <papoteur> And a page on wiki ?
20:55:37 <ennael> I think baud created it already
20:57:11 <marja> not in our wiki... maybe in the MLO one?
20:57:28 <papoteur> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Paris_Open_Source_Summit_2015 ?
20:57:29 <marja> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Special:Contributions/Baud
20:57:55 <ennael> yep
20:57:57 <papoteur> epilip done it
20:57:58 <marja> ah, written by epilip
20:58:03 <marja> :-)
20:58:03 <ennael> in fact 2 french events have merged
20:58:15 <ennael> solution linux and open world summit
20:59:11 <papoteur> Epilip suggested a post in blog
20:59:35 <ennael> yep could be
21:02:26 <papoteur> I will write on MLO.
21:02:36 <marja> papoteur: thx
21:02:42 <ennael> thanks
21:02:46 <ennael> anything else?
21:02:52 <wilcal> not from me
21:02:54 <marja> fall asleep?
21:02:59 <ennael> also :)
21:03:13 <marja> :-)
21:03:56 <ennael> so thanks for attending tonight
21:04:06 <marja> ennael: thx for leading the meeting
21:04:20 <DavidWHodgins> I have to go. So bye for now.
21:04:26 <wilcal> bye all
21:04:27 <marja> DavidWHodgins: good night
21:04:31 <ennael> see you all next time
21:04:32 <marja> wilcal: good night
21:04:35 <papoteur> Good night
21:04:36 <ennael> night all
21:04:40 <ennael> #endmeeting