20:15:33 <ennael> #startmeeting
20:15:33 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Mon Mar 16 20:15:33 2015 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:15:33 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:15:55 <ennael> #chair MrsB
20:15:55 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: MrsB ennael
20:16:00 <MrsB> uh ohh
20:16:39 <MrsB> Welcome to the council Latte_
20:16:40 <ennael> ok so again a meeting dedicated to Mageia 5
20:16:45 <ennael> welcome Latte_
20:16:53 <ennael> welcome in hell :)
20:16:59 <Akien> \o/
20:17:05 <MrsB> new blood
20:17:05 <Latte_> Thank you - happy to be here ;)
20:17:18 <ennael> so for various reason we are very late for Mageia 5
20:17:35 <ennael> now we need to end this as soon as possible or we will all loose interest
20:17:40 <ennael> (if not already done)
20:17:48 <MrsB> yep indeed, it's dragging on too long
20:17:55 <ennael> that's why I've asked also coling to attend
20:18:07 <Luigi12_work> looks like he ran away
20:18:11 <ennael> :)
20:18:21 <DavidWHodgins> I started syncing the latest iso images about an hour ago. Likely take another hour or so, to finish.
20:18:21 <ennael> he told me he will try to join at one moment
20:18:34 <Akien> (IMO coling should be deputy leader for the sysadmins, this way he would be forced into the council :p)
20:18:42 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:18:54 <MrsB> currently the only ones workign properly on my test machine are the live kde's and classic dvd 32
20:19:30 <ennael> ok about this bug we are in the middle of nowhere
20:19:36 <wilcal> brb switching computers
20:19:40 <ennael> no idea it seems about that one
20:20:00 <MrsB> classic 64bit seems to be failing for all with older nvidia
20:20:14 <MrsB> gnome lives fail with the Oops fail whale
20:20:29 <MrsB> they are ok in live mode though
20:20:31 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Failing booting from iso, or failing after install?
20:20:35 <Luigi12_work> "Something went wrong.  You tried to run GNOME."
20:20:40 <MrsB> mmm
20:20:56 <ennael> looking for the bug number
20:21:03 <ennael> MrsB: can you remind us?
20:21:05 <wilcal> I'm back
20:21:25 <MrsB> Classic 64bit (dvd/dual) suffers screen corruption in the installer.
20:21:34 <MrsB> just finding the bug number one sec
20:21:52 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15253
20:21:54 <[mbot> [ Bug 15253 5b3: Display corruption once the cursor moves (64bit is KO, 32bit is OK) with 16bpp & 24bpp (OK with 15bpp) ]
20:22:03 <ennael> thanks
20:22:30 <MrsB> Live gnome is ok, but once installed it boots to the Oops fail whale https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15468
20:22:32 <[mbot> [ Bug 15468 5RC: Gnome Live install "Oops something has gone wrong" ("Gjs-WARNING **: JS ERROR: Error: Argument 'string' (type utf8) may not be null") ]
20:24:13 <wilcal> I looked at all the live media this morning and they were fine to live mode
20:24:22 <MrsB> yep
20:24:38 <wilcal> also insalled all three CI's and they were fine too
20:24:55 <wilcal> no uefi stuff
20:25:09 <wilcal> all vbox
20:25:11 <MrsB> There are also https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15449 to do with gpt partitioning
20:25:13 <[mbot> [ Bug 15449 M5RC classic DVD fails to partition disk in EFI mod with windows 7 (use free space option) b/c partitionner asked to reboot ]
20:25:32 <MrsB> and lewis's missing "next" button https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15485
20:25:34 <[mbot> [ Bug 15485 EFI: Classic installer first disc partitioning screen has off-screen Help & Next buttons ]
20:26:33 <MrsB> lebarhon may need to use a new bug for the partitioning
20:27:32 <ennael> ok tv is on it so nothing more we can do here
20:30:12 <ennael> about the 2 above I will mail dev about it
20:30:13 <DavidWHodgins> We should probably change the RC date in https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_5_Development to "When it's ready".
20:30:30 <Luigi12_work> as well as all future dates :o)
20:31:04 <DavidWHodgins> The only future date is final, which already has "when rc is stable enough".
20:31:09 <MrsB> we've missed the tv/tmb/coling super combo
20:31:23 <ennael> please
20:35:08 <Akien> Should we do a blog post to explain the current situation and that we're still hard at work on Mageia 5, even though we can't give an ETA?
20:35:14 <MrsB> We also have upgrades from mga4 failing when iso medias and online medias are being used. I'll need to check that with current isos too though.
20:35:28 <Luigi12_work> we do?
20:35:39 <Luigi12_work> I thought that was fixed
20:35:52 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15350
20:35:54 <[mbot> [ Bug 15350 Upgrade failed mga4 to mga5 - 195 transactions failed ]
20:36:09 <Luigi12_work> wasn't that one without online repos?
20:36:19 <Luigi12_work> wilcal did one with and only one package failed and it was fixed
20:36:25 <MrsB> it's ok with iso medias or with online medias, just not with both
20:36:45 <Luigi12_work> o_O  ooh that's weird
20:36:55 <ennael> is it in all cases?
20:37:07 <ennael> I mean any other people getting this also ?
20:37:13 <wilcal> last time i did that mostly it was fine. I'll be do'n it again this week with the new isos
20:37:34 <MrsB> I uploaded an ova of the VM and tv tested it too
20:38:06 <MrsB> ruled out mirror updating by freezing updates on the mirror (http mirror on lan)
20:38:39 <Akien> I'll give it a try too
20:38:57 <MrsB> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6AjnXi2R6HcNk1GQkdGT3IwVnM/view?usp=sharing
20:38:58 <DavidWHodgins> That wouldn't rule out mirror syncing, if the mirror it last synced from was syncing at the time.
20:38:58 <[mbot> [ Test64.ova - Google Drive ]
20:39:19 <MrsB> well, it's failed numerous times Dave
20:39:29 <MrsB> try it yourself though by all means
20:39:46 <MrsB> the link above is the exported VM
20:39:53 <ennael> specific DE ?
20:39:59 <MrsB> 3 installed
20:40:00 <ennael> or all DEs are afiling.
20:40:03 <ennael> ah
20:40:22 <ennael> maybe we can try one by one to check where it fails
20:40:22 <MrsB> just upgrading using dvd 64 with online medias added
20:40:25 <ennael> (proposal)
20:41:29 <ennael> Ican make some tests also but tomorrow as I need the night to get isos :)
20:42:32 <MrsB> I posted the VM link on the bug anyway
20:42:40 <MrsB> it's 4Gb
20:42:49 <ennael> yep
20:48:11 <Akien> So what should be our strategy to get this release out?
20:48:39 <Akien> I think we're all getting tired of this endless release cycle, and as said previously the risk for some of us to lose interest is non-negligible
20:48:41 <wilcal> First we need to define the top two release blockers
20:49:00 <wilcal> EFI and disk partitioning?
20:49:14 <MrsB> well, non booting is pretty bad too
20:49:30 <ennael> they are all on top :)
20:49:48 <wilcal> Can either of those be pushed into M6?
20:50:01 <Akien> Yes, I don't know about choosing only 2 but I also think that we probably need to separate "bugs that make mga5 unusable" from "really bad bugs, but if we really can't fix them, a big mention in the errata will have to do"
20:50:15 <wilcal> Sorry try'n to be Mr Exec again. Gotta make a decision here
20:50:32 <Akien> Even visually, if we could reduce the "top priority" list to something like 10 bugs, I think it would be easier for our devs to dive in
20:50:37 <MrsB> These are the main ones which make it unusuable at the moment
20:51:05 <wilcal> Yes, reduce that list down to only a chosen few and push everything else into M6
20:51:24 <Luigi12_work> for bug 13894 if someone could make a little prototype perl-Gtk3 program that just has a window with a box in it like the one in the installer that you can print text into, I could play with it and check the API docs and see if I can find the right fix
20:51:26 <wilcal> What are the "main" ones
20:51:29 <Akien> Maybe we could use a whiteboard tag for this and create a custom such for the "release megablockers"
20:51:34 <MrsB> we are still only at RC so there is time, but after this delay we should at least make it bootable
20:51:36 <wilcal> less then 5 would be best
20:51:38 <Luigi12_work> Akien I guess looked at the code and figured out what kind of widget it is
20:52:00 <Akien> s/such/search/
20:52:42 <wilcal> I suggest that by 31 Mar 15 we are down to 5 or less really really release blockers
20:52:45 <Luigi12_work> I'd really hate to have the release take 15 months just to be a crap release because we didn't fix a bunch of ugly issues and decided to kick the can down the road again
20:52:59 <MrsB> yeah
20:53:03 <Luigi12_work> the package set is in good shape, things work well
20:53:11 <wilcal> we gotta get off the dime here or euro
20:53:13 <Luigi12_work> the main problems are installer bugs
20:54:22 <wilcal> we got two more of these meetings so on the 30th lets settle on the critical 5. Release for sure by end of April
20:54:31 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: you can't put a number on it
20:54:42 <wilcal> This could be endless luigi
20:54:50 <MrsB> It's fine to say that when you have employees wilcal but not so doable with volunteers
20:54:53 <wilcal> I've seen this before with tech people
20:54:53 <Luigi12_work> well you can put a deadline on it, but some arbitrary number is pointless
20:55:15 <Luigi12_work> the number of bad bugs is what it is, we just have to figure out what to do about them
20:55:24 <Luigi12_work> can we fix them, can we live with them, etc
20:55:26 <wilcal> Make it 10 on 31 Mar but settle on the final few
20:55:35 <MrsB> we need to keep a certain amount of pressure though or it will be endless
20:55:37 <Luigi12_work> it'll be how many it is
20:55:57 <Luigi12_work> well we certainly need to give people time to upgrade to mga5 before the EOL
20:56:06 <Luigi12_work> at least 3 months to be reasonable
20:56:18 <Luigi12_work> when's mga4 EOL, August sometime?
20:56:25 <wilcal> Any thoughts too pushing out eol for M4.1?
20:56:40 <Luigi12_work> it only gets harder to support the older it gets
20:56:51 <Luigi12_work> there's already some packages we can't really support until August or whatever it is
20:57:15 <MrsB> let's concentrate on 5 and worry about 4 later
20:57:36 <Luigi12_work> well like I said it's all tied together
20:57:37 <wilcal> lets see if we can come to some kind of an end game on 20 Mar
20:57:43 <Luigi12_work> but yeah I wouldn't extend mga4
20:57:43 <wilcal> 30 mar
20:57:53 <Luigi12_work> what do you mean by end game?
20:58:17 <wilcal> decision on final critical bugs and time frame to solve them
20:58:39 <MrsB> The concept is great wilcal, in practise though we need people with the right knowledge to be available to solve them
20:59:06 <MrsB> we just have to maintain some pressure and keep pushing things along
20:59:08 <wilcal> anyway thoughts and how I've handled this in the past
20:59:09 <Luigi12_work> I was thinking about writing up a review of release blocker bugs and mailing it to dev last week, maybe I will this week
20:59:31 <MrsB> there was talk of weekly meetings
20:59:44 <MrsB> emails would help tho yeah
20:59:45 <Luigi12_work> yeah we tried to have a dev meeting, like 3 people came
21:00:13 <ennael> relaunching meetings will not work on bug fixing
21:00:23 <wilcal> just a time waster
21:00:45 <MrsB> yeah, a roundup type email might help
21:00:59 <Luigi12_work> I'll see what I can do
21:01:08 <wilcal> super deal luigi
21:06:11 <MrsB> anything more we can do ennael?
21:06:42 <Akien> Ok, ennael and I will also work ASAP on giving some shape to the release blockers list in a table, so that we can have a better overview that was bugzilla offers
21:06:48 <wilcal> IMO super effort from lots of folks here. We'll get through this and get it released
21:06:57 <Akien> With comments, priorirty, who's working on what, etc.
21:07:11 <ennael> we will take each 5  bugs for coming days
21:07:25 <MrsB> great stuff :) that's a positive outcome
21:07:28 <ennael> and look for people to work on it
21:07:29 <wilcal> think hard about what is reallly a release blocker and what ca be pushed into m6
21:07:32 <ennael> until they are dead
21:07:35 <ennael> :)
21:07:42 <ennael> wilcal: we will
21:07:48 <MrsB> we all will be ready for some time off when this is done
21:08:04 <wilcal> you bet
21:08:32 <MrsB> imho we should try to keep time between RC and final as short as possible
21:08:47 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed
21:08:50 <ennael> indeed anyway rc should be near to final
21:08:56 <ennael> this is a pre release
21:09:26 <wilcal> yes we are really in beta 4
21:09:35 <ennael> also I'd like to propose to slow down in freeze push
21:09:38 <Luigi12_work> Akien: if you have an in-progress version of that table, please send me a link
21:09:40 <ennael> to avoid new bugs
21:09:50 <MrsB> yes, mga bugfix only
21:09:59 <Luigi12_work> yeah we're at that point now
21:10:00 <ennael> release blocker
21:10:08 <MrsB> yes, I'm all for that
21:10:11 <ennael> I will mail about that after meeting
21:10:17 <ennael> or it will never end
21:10:25 <ennael> I will push the pending one and that's all
21:10:40 <Luigi12_work> heh, I think all that's pending is like 10 games from Akien
21:11:03 <Akien> \o/
21:11:19 <MrsB> all the important stuff!
21:11:23 <wilcal> There should be an uptick of Flightgear  in there
21:11:26 <ennael> :)
21:11:27 <Akien> Games, games, always games... I did refrain myself from asking freeze pushes for _every_ game :)
21:11:50 <ennael> Akien: can you also slow down this guy about splitting task-games :)
21:12:05 <MrsB> I'll email qa-d to remind people to respond on bugs quickly
21:12:13 <Luigi12_work> I didn't read that thread, we just need to put the huge games in a different media, they take too much space :o(
21:12:31 <Akien> Luigi12_work: That's definitely something we need to think about yes.
21:12:59 <Akien> ennael: No worry :-) Though my proposal of a "task-games-selection" could be a nice addition
21:13:15 <MrsB> ... for mga6
21:13:20 <Akien> If we can select semi-democratically some games that we want to put forward
21:13:23 <Akien> MrsB: Indeed :)
21:13:25 <wilcal> ya know i've never installed a game from the iso media
21:13:35 <wilcal> always from the repo
21:13:43 <Luigi12_work> the huge games wouldn't fit on the ISOs
21:13:48 <MrsB> I don't think there are any wilcal
21:13:51 <Akien> wilcal: Luigi means that it makes local mirrors huge
21:13:59 <Luigi12_work> yes, this is my issue
21:14:18 <wilcal> I've got a new 2TB drive for my M5 server :-))
21:14:35 <ennael> ok this is for isos
21:14:35 <Luigi12_work> they're too big to fit on most of my machines' disks now because of the games (data mainly)
21:14:41 <ennael> we also need to finalize release notes
21:14:58 <Luigi12_work> did we ever add something to release notes about dropping old postgresqls?
21:15:28 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_5_Release_Notes
21:15:44 <Akien> Luigi12_work: I did, but it could be made more visible
21:15:51 <Akien> It's in the "obsoleted" section
21:16:03 <Luigi12_work> ok, it's on there, that's good
21:16:12 <MrsB> maybe worth a new section heading for it
21:16:13 <Akien> Especially if you know how users can dump their database, it could be worth mentioning
21:16:31 <Luigi12_work> openstack doesn't need to be mentioned because we didn't ship it in mga4
21:17:15 <Luigi12_work> zabbix and otrs probably should be, but there's so many it's hard to think of them all
21:17:16 <ennael> ahah the pet project of Luigi12_work :)
21:17:18 * ennael runs
21:17:28 <Luigi12_work> the most important thing is just what ones will require the user to take action
21:17:37 <Luigi12_work> so the postgresql one is much more important
21:17:38 <MrsB> we could perhaps s/unmaintained/without a maintainer/
21:18:15 <Akien> About the release notes, the games section is still empty but you can count on me to write a nice paragraph about it :)
21:18:27 <Luigi12_work> which will take up 50% of the page space
21:18:35 <Luigi12_work> to mirror what the games data do in the repository
21:18:42 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
21:18:47 <Akien> :-P
21:18:52 <Akien> Only 50%? ;-)
21:18:59 <MrsB> should mention ajenti on there somewhere too
21:19:00 <Luigi12_work> Magameia
21:20:24 <Luigi12_work> ok I'm going to go for a run.  Enjoy the rest of your evening everyone :o)
21:20:32 <MrsB> With a last push then we have a plan
21:20:38 <MrsB> nite Luigi12_work
21:21:00 <MrsB> Is there anything else to do here tonight?
21:21:17 <wilcal> not from me. Now out off Mr Exec mode  :-))
21:21:21 <ennael> oups
21:21:31 <ennael> Akien: can you shake atelier about release announcement?
21:22:05 <MrsB> dave could you respond on board ml please
21:23:17 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Reply sent.
21:23:21 <MrsB> thanks
21:23:44 <Akien> ennael: Sure
21:24:46 <MrsB> let's call it a night then
21:24:53 <wilcal> i agree
21:24:58 <ennael> ok
21:25:09 <MrsB> thanks all
21:25:18 <ennael> so we will let you know with Akien about bugs following
21:25:46 <ennael> thanks for your patience and hope to see the end of this release very near
21:26:00 <ennael> #endmeeting