19:14:28 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:14:28 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Mon Sep 22 19:14:28 2014 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:14:28 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:14:40 <ennael> hi all thanks for attending :)
19:14:49 <MrsB> o/
19:15:08 <ennael> so tonight's meeting is dedicated to teams review
19:15:14 <ennael> #chair MrsB grenoya
19:15:14 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: MrsB ennael grenoya
19:15:19 <ennael> girl power !
19:15:23 <grenoya> :)
19:15:23 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:15:28 <MrsB> trouble
19:15:34 <Akien> Morning council :-)
19:15:38 <ennael> :)
19:15:41 <DavidWHodgins> ☺
19:15:43 <MrsB> morning
19:15:49 <wilcal> Morn'n
19:15:54 <ennael> #topic atelier team
19:16:01 * MrsB sniggers
19:16:01 <ennael> grenoya: your turn :)
19:16:08 <grenoya> thanks :)
19:16:59 <grenoya> Artwork contest is finished, no communication was made about it this weekend on ML so poeple may have forgotten
19:17:12 <grenoya> I should send one tomorrow
19:17:28 * grenoya is in text mode tonight, no emails
19:17:54 <DavidWHodgins> grenoya: Any artwork submissions you like?
19:18:29 <MrsB> i think it'll be down to you to energise the team grenoya
19:18:33 <grenoya> I haven't watched lately and I've weird tastes sometimes
19:18:46 <grenoya> MrsB: indeed!
19:18:52 <DavidWHodgins> :)
19:18:58 <grenoya> but I must admitt I forgot myself too /o\
19:19:02 <MrsB> oopsie
19:19:31 <MrsB> morning tmb
19:19:34 * Akien remembered. But did nothing :-p
19:19:37 <grenoya> tmb: hi!
19:19:42 <Akien> Morning tmb
19:19:57 <grenoya> nothing much to say about web yet
19:20:08 <grenoya> and I let Akien talk for Marcom :)
19:20:14 <ennael> ok :)
19:20:19 <tmb> hi
19:20:31 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: HiYa
19:20:40 * tmb sorry to be late, just got home...
19:20:48 <Akien> grenoya has started working on refreshing our wiki pages about the Events Box and which events we want to attend
19:21:19 <ennael> any progress on the event box ?
19:21:31 <Akien> So far not that much, but we're still on it
19:22:13 <Akien> To quote myself:
19:22:13 <Akien> We need three kind of things:
19:22:13 <Akien> - actual bought stuff in the event box that should travel from event to event
19:22:13 <Akien> - clear instructions on how to buy more of this stuff to renew the box's content
19:22:13 <Akien> - a well-written flyer that could be printed by contributors themselves (i.e. two flyers on a simple A4 sheet)
19:22:46 <Akien> So that's what grenoya and I will be working on, and we aim at having this ready Soon™
19:23:37 <MrsB> What's happening with blog posts & social media atm?
19:23:42 <Akien> Then we more or less want to have one official organizer for each event, so that people stop thinking that others will do the job, and nobody books a booth :)
19:23:59 <ennael> :)
19:24:23 <Akien> MrsB: I need to retrieve some credentials, and then I can start communicating about trivial stuff, such as "BS is having a hard time" or so :)
19:24:36 <MrsB> yeah, that's ideal :)
19:24:46 <MrsB> which ones are you short of?
19:25:17 <Akien> As for the blog I don't think we have anything planned, we'll brainstorm, I'm sure there are things to say :-)
19:25:27 <Akien> Maybe a guest post from tv about the new RPM? :-p
19:25:44 <grenoya> Akien: nice idea :)
19:26:12 <Akien> MrsB: I'll check later, basically I have no credentials at all.
19:26:21 <MrsB> oh lol, all of them then!
19:26:34 <Akien> I think ennael has some, and trish probably has the rest, so I'll harass them both until I have everything I need
19:26:45 <MrsB> use matches if needs be
19:27:30 <grenoya> anything else to ask us?
19:27:54 <grenoya> or can we pass to another team?
19:28:11 * MrsB tries to think of something
19:28:49 <ennael> I may have some indeed but not all of them
19:28:59 <Akien> ennael: If you can check after the meeting, that would be great
19:29:35 <doktor5000__> Akien: for the flyer and poster there's at least a german one, could be easily translated
19:31:38 <MrsB> Who's next then?
19:31:59 <grenoya> MrsB: you?
19:32:07 <MrsB> but but but..
19:32:14 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:32:20 <grenoya> :)
19:32:27 <MrsB> #topic QA team
19:32:30 <Akien> doktor5000__: I'll have a look thanks
19:33:04 <MrsB> QA has started to formalise the informal mentoring we offered
19:33:31 <MrsB> we have begun to assign new starters to a mentor when they join the team
19:33:39 <MrsB> So far it's been slow going
19:33:53 <MrsB> we've had alot of people join but none really very active
19:34:14 <ennael> :/
19:34:36 <MrsB> hopefully we can keep prodding people into action
19:34:48 <doktor5000__> Akien: best ping Oliver, he should know where that's stored ...
19:35:17 <MrsB> The updates list is not too bad at the moment but we have kernels ongoing.
19:35:45 <wilcal> Kernels are fun, as long as theirs lots of sports on TV
19:35:47 <MrsB> also some old ones we've kind of avoided which we need to get validated
19:36:33 <MrsB> We're expecting beta1 isos at any point but I think we're actually going to need to reschedule the release for that
19:36:49 <MrsB> maybe set it back by a week?
19:37:13 <MrsB> that would allow this week to get the BS fixed and rebuild completed
19:37:30 <MrsB> and still allow ~ a week for testing
19:37:44 <MrsB> WDYT?
19:37:51 * doktor5000__ thinks we need more of a "It's done when it's done" attitude ...
19:38:04 <ennael> was going to propose to post about it indeed
19:38:04 <DavidWHodgins> I agree, but make sure there is a blog post about it, asap.
19:38:16 <wilcal> I agree with you doktor5000
19:38:17 <ennael> time will be too short
19:38:19 <MrsB> yeah we do, we do needs dates to work to aim for though
19:38:26 <wilcal> It ain't over till it's over
19:38:26 <ennael> we need dates
19:38:33 <Akien> I think it might be more than 1 week
19:38:38 <Akien> The mass rebuild is not finished yet
19:38:45 <Akien> And there are 7000+ broken packages
19:38:51 <wilcal> We don't have the pressure of FOSDEM this year
19:38:52 <MrsB> well it's not scheduled for release until the end of the month
19:39:01 <DavidWHodgins> Akien: Ouch!
19:39:08 <MrsB> this year we have christmas instead though wilcal
19:39:09 <doktor5000> what about "not before 15th of october" ?
19:39:49 <Akien> I think we can aim for Sun 12th or so
19:40:10 <Akien> If ISOs are ready at the beginning of October, then we have plenty of time to test them
19:40:40 <MrsB> It would be good to try and change people's expectations somewhat though in general. We *aim* for this date but it'll be ready when it's ready
19:41:22 <Akien> Well I guess people are now used to it. Apart from Mageia 4 with the FOSDEM rush, we've always released when it was deemed ready
19:41:44 <Akien> I don't think Mageia is seen as a "we stick to the schedule no matter what" community :-)
19:42:26 <MrsB> I don't think so either, but it's what people seem to expect, mainly due to how other distro's work I guess.
19:42:34 <DavidWHodgins> There are people who complain if we don't notify them it will be delayed.
19:43:47 <Akien> Yes I think notifying is good.
19:44:06 <Akien> Atelier can prepare a blog post about it, with some crunchy bits about the RPM upgrade and the ongoing mass rebuild.
19:44:20 <MrsB> Shall we make a decision on this or would it be better to wait a few days and see how things work out with cauldron & BS first?
19:44:23 <tmb> yeah, lets add 2 weeks to the schedule to not have to do a fedora
19:44:39 * Akien is no hat-maker.
19:44:48 <grenoya> Akien: can you send an email about it tonight? so we don't forget :)
19:44:53 <Akien> grenoya: yep
19:45:15 <Akien> Do we agree on a ±2 weeks postponed schedule?
19:45:27 <MrsB> is that too much?
19:45:29 <DavidWHodgins> Ok by me.
19:45:34 <Akien> Or 10 days
19:45:44 <MrsB> tmb ennael WDYT?
19:45:48 <Akien> Beta1 should be 2014/09/30
19:45:55 <Akien> (according to the schedule I mean)
19:46:20 <tmb> better go for 2 weeks and possibly do a ***surprise*** :)
19:46:32 <MrsB> under promise, over deliver
19:46:36 <Akien> Sounds good :-)
19:46:42 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Agreed!
19:46:58 <MrsB> Is everybody OK with that then?
19:47:08 <Akien> Fine by me.
19:47:10 <MrsB> anybody *not* ok with it
19:47:31 <wilcal> I'm ok withy a 2-wk delay and maybe a tmb surprise
19:47:44 <MrsB> let's try not to refer to it as a delay though
19:48:10 <wilcal> pause
19:48:32 <DavidWHodgins> It's extra development and thorough testing.
19:49:07 <MrsB> #agreed Beta 1 planning will be rescheduled back by ~2 wks and atelier will work on a blog bost
19:49:15 <MrsB> done then, thanks everybody
19:49:44 <MrsB> Who's next?
19:50:02 <DavidWHodgins> Should we add 2 weeks to all of the scheduled dates, including final release?
19:50:41 <MrsB> maybe so yes
19:51:08 <grenoya> is it really sure at that point that we can't make it?
19:51:12 <wilcal> Maybe push it into the first week or two of 2015
19:51:22 <ennael> not a good idea
19:51:38 <grenoya> wilcal: it won't be availlable time from contributors
19:51:41 <ennael> either we do it before christmas or end of january
19:52:00 <wilcal> European holiday makers from mid Dec to the end of the year?
19:52:15 <MrsB> maybe the message could be just that then ennael
19:53:12 <ennael> ?
19:53:16 <MrsB> I think if we can get past beta1 and full rebuild then beta2 should go alot smoother so we may still be ok for christmas
19:53:44 <MrsB> we can decide then how things are looking
19:54:03 <doktor5000> DavidWHodgins: ennael: there are also people who will complain, if we notify them about delays but if we have no clear target dates ... so what
19:55:14 <DavidWHodgins> doktor5000: I think it's better to notify people, if we expect a delay. Some may whine about it, but most prefer to know when they can expect the release.
19:55:20 <ennael> I guess we can decide after beta1 is out and see the status of the distro
19:56:05 <MrsB> beta2 is scheduled for end of october which is maybe a bit soon after 15th october beta1 but I don't think we'll know for sure until beta1 is done
19:56:08 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: I think it's better to warn users that the final release *may* be delayed too, asap.
19:56:17 <ennael> okok
19:56:29 <Akien> I agree with MrsB, I think we don't have to reschedule, but we can tell we *might* reschedule depending on our progress.
19:57:09 <grenoya> agree too
19:57:18 <Akien> Then when we release beta1, we can also communicate about an eventual rescheduling of beta2/RC or everything
19:57:31 <doktor5000> DavidWHodgins: yep definitely, notify about possible delay
19:57:55 <MrsB> if we highlight the massive changes going on at the moment I think people will appreciate we can't be sure right now how things will progress so we can aim for christmas but allow until end of Jan
19:59:36 <MrsB> if we let people know ASAP that we'll know more later then they know what to expect.
19:59:54 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Agreed.
20:00:39 <grenoya> filip__: hi!
20:00:44 <filip__> hi grenoya
20:00:52 <MrsB> morning filip__
20:00:52 <filip__> and others
20:02:23 <MrsB> Does anybody disagree?
20:02:46 <wilcal> I'm agreed
20:03:48 <filip__> MrsB: sorry, what is the question?
20:05:11 <MrsB> sorry filip__, we agreed to reschdule beta1 and were saying would we need to reschedule others but probably won't know until after beta 1 is out. The question was about how to handle that
20:06:05 <MrsB> ennael thought final should either be before christmas or the end of january
20:06:06 <DavidWHodgins> I'm in favour of the blog post warning that the dates for things after beta 1 may be delayed too.
20:06:26 <filip__> DavidWHodgins: +1
20:07:03 <MrsB> we're suggesting a blog post to let people know things are quite fluid at the moment but we may need to reschedule other releases too
20:08:09 <filip__> I prefer "when it's ready" attitude more than bad publicity
20:08:11 <Akien> Ok, I think everyone agrees
20:08:26 <MrsB> let's move on then, who's next?
20:09:27 <MrsB> i18n/doc team?
20:10:16 <MrsB> anybody?
20:10:26 <Akien> Ok
20:10:26 <filip__> Akien: can you step before me ;)
20:10:39 <MrsB> #topic i18n review
20:11:23 <Akien> Well there isn't much to say for i18n/l10n, we've been pretty quiet lately. Translators are still keeping their stuff up to date, so we push a few updates every now and then
20:11:49 <Akien> We'll have a joint meeting with docteam on Thursday to get things going again, and make sure people don't forget about the upcoming release
20:13:11 <Akien> ennael: Can we expect a rebuild of all Mageia software to include updated translations after the translations freeze on 2014/10/27?
20:13:32 <ennael> just ping me when it's done
20:13:38 <Akien> There are usually lots of new translations a few days before the deadline :-p
20:13:39 <ennael> I will check it then
20:13:42 <Akien> Ok
20:13:52 <ennael> that why we need dates :)
20:13:54 <Akien> filip__: It's about all for the review I guess?
20:14:18 <filip__> Akien: ?
20:14:35 <Akien> filip__: I mean do you have something to add for the team review?
20:15:17 <filip__> no. maybe only that joining the teams will be a big toopic in Thursday
20:15:43 <Akien> Ah yes, there have been discussions about merging docteam and i18n/l10n for a while
20:16:12 <Akien> There's a general feeling that we should work together as a single team, but we're not sure about merging the means of communications, etc.
20:16:21 <Akien> This still needs some discussion :-)
20:16:51 <filip__> yeah
20:16:52 <Akien> Basically (IIRC) we envision the bigger team as three components:
20:17:09 <Akien> - i18n gurus that handle our tools and work with sysadmins and packages
20:17:19 <Akien> - translators (l10n) that translate
20:17:28 <Akien> - documentation writers that write the English content
20:18:09 <MrsB> with 3 leaders?
20:18:19 <Akien> No idea :-)
20:18:29 <DavidWHodgins> Is it better to join the teams, or workout better communications between the teams?
20:18:30 <filip__> Akien: +1 ;)
20:18:33 <Akien> We haven't really discussed leadership yet
20:19:40 <DavidWHodgins> I'm thinking it might be better to ask all members of all 3 teams to subscribe to the other teams mailing lists.
20:19:41 <grenoya> 3 heads seems a good idea
20:20:11 <Akien> DavidWHodgins: Yes we might do something like this.
20:20:27 <grenoya> as documentation writer may know nothing about transifex and so on
20:20:34 <Akien> It's mostly a matter of how we think about the team and how we present it to newcomers
20:21:00 <filip__> yeah. we still need to improve wiki on that
20:21:03 <Akien> For now when people wanted to translate documentation, we always told them to join the i18n-discuss and doc ML
20:21:21 <Akien> It was not really clear which team should handle the documentation translation
20:21:49 <Akien> Hence our discussions about merging and/or better distribute the work with a clearer distinction between i18n (technical) and l10n stuff
20:21:58 <DavidWHodgins> I'm subscribed to all three of the lists, and compared to other lists, they are all low volume.
20:22:30 <MrsB> there is a case for both really. With separate teams the specialiities are covered. When merged there are more people involved in more aspects.
20:23:41 <filip__> MrsB: +1 It's the current state already.
20:23:57 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Agreed. If each team has enough people, then no need to merge them. If not, merging may help.
20:24:50 <MrsB> Good luck with your discussions, it'll be interesting to see the outcome
20:24:56 <Akien> We'll report back after the i18n/doc meeting :-)
20:25:07 <Akien> And/or the subsequent discussions on the ML
20:25:36 <MrsB> Is there anything else or shall we move on?
20:26:10 <Akien> We can move on
20:26:10 <filip__> I think we can
20:26:21 <MrsB> thanks for that then
20:26:33 <MrsB> #topic Packagers review
20:26:40 <MrsB> ennael malo :)
20:27:28 <ennael> so build is in progress
20:27:52 <ennael> so the big work will be about fixing broken packages
20:29:01 <ennael> we may not have pakacgers meeting tomorrow but rather next week
20:29:22 <ennael> reports are also in progress about side effects of rpm update
20:30:47 <ennael> coling worked these last day on a git corruption
20:31:04 <ennael> he made a great job there and all is now fixed
20:31:21 <MrsB> sounded like a possible hardware issue
20:31:51 <ennael> maybe yes
20:33:05 <tmb> well... there is a reason we are replacing old valstar...
20:33:42 <MrsB> what is happening with apprentices atm?
20:33:54 <ennael> having breakage during release is quite a tradition
20:33:59 <MrsB> lol true
20:34:31 <ennael> about apprentice, malo is not available for now. So I will try to organize a session for new comers
20:34:55 <ennael> just on my side I'm working on a conference until end of this week then I will have more time to work on it
20:35:20 <MrsB> i noticed that was coming up, good luck with it :)
20:35:27 <ennael> thanks :)
20:35:46 <ennael> so basically we are waiting for end of mass rebuild and hten rush on fixes
20:36:50 <MrsB> is it possible to have a server sat installing packages to make sure they can be installed?
20:37:16 <MrsB> maybe a question for sysadmin review ;)
20:38:56 <ennael> that's all for now
20:39:04 <MrsB> thanks ennael
20:39:18 <MrsB> #topic sysadmin team
20:39:51 <MrsB> your turn tmb
20:42:53 <ennael> maybe not around for now we can ask him by mail later
20:43:37 <MrsB> ok, so doktor5000 your turn!
20:43:49 <MrsB> #topic forum team
20:44:16 <doktor5000> well, no news is good news, isn't it? nothing to report ...
20:44:21 <MrsB> lol
20:44:37 <ennael> no spam? not even a troll?
20:44:48 <ennael> we can borrow you some of the contact guys :)
20:44:56 <grenoya> forums must be dead
20:44:57 <doktor5000> ennael: pfff everyday, but that's what we have mods for
20:45:05 * MrsB promises not to respond to trolls again
20:45:15 <ennael> :)
20:45:19 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: lol
20:45:23 <Akien> Hehe that was a nice one indeed
20:45:53 <MrsB> we shouldn't do it though really, maat replied very well I though
20:45:57 <MrsB> t
20:46:38 <MrsB> Have we missed any teams
20:46:39 <MrsB> ?
20:46:47 <ennael> don't think so
20:47:06 <MrsB> Is there anything else you want to cover Anne?
20:47:29 <ennael> not for now just waiting now for end of rebuild and then start isos
20:47:47 <MrsB> I'll start the countdown then!
20:47:56 <MrsB> Thanks everybody for coming
20:47:56 <ennael> do we have testers for beta1 ?
20:48:43 <MrsB> Yes, according to the list at least. I'll send a private email to them all when we have an idea when it'll be
20:48:56 <MrsB> we discussed it at the last qa meeting though
20:49:05 <wilcal> I think we will have quite a few new testers for M5B1
20:49:07 <ennael> ok great
20:49:09 <MrsB> we left it at some time next week, but likely not now
20:49:23 <ennael> thanks for driving this meeting :)
20:49:36 <MrsB> yw :)
20:49:40 <ennael> I guess we can close it
20:49:43 <MrsB> T - 5
20:49:46 <MrsB> 4
20:49:47 <MrsB> 3
20:49:49 <MrsB> 2
20:49:50 <MrsB> 1
20:49:52 <MrsB> #endmeeting