20:42:29 <ennael> #startmeeting
20:42:29 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Nov 18 20:42:29 2013 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:42:29 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:43:49 <ennael> #topic planning and action for beta 2 and rc of Mageia 4
20:43:58 <ennael> hi everybody and thanks for attending
20:44:18 <MrsB> hi o/
20:44:44 <tmb> hi
20:44:46 <ennael> so here is the first topic
20:45:09 <ennael> beta 1 is finally out after a (toooo) loooooong release period
20:45:27 <MrsB> wasn't it just
20:45:57 <ennael> so first question is: shall we keep the planning as it ?
20:46:21 <Akien> Can we fix the big issues still present in beta 1 until beta 2?
20:46:33 <Akien> I mean, if we keep the schedule as it is.
20:46:53 <MrsB> that's the big question it all hinges on i think
20:46:55 <ennael> beta 2 is planned for 28th of november
20:46:55 <DavidWHodgins> I think so
20:47:23 <DavidWHodgins> We should start beta 2 testing as soon as possible, and try to get the rest of the installer bugs fixed.
20:47:56 <MrsB> i'd rather the other way around, finx the bugs asap and then start testing
20:47:59 <DavidWHodgins> That's our main problem, not the applications, for the most part.
20:48:12 <ennael> I would like maybe to propose 1 week more for beta 2 and same thing for RC
20:48:33 <ennael> well RC is a bit complicated with christmas
20:48:36 <MrsB> if we delay RC it will be getting in to christmas when everybody has better things to do
20:48:50 <DavidWHodgins> Keep those who are working on the installers, focoused on them, with testing to ensure the bugs are actually fixed.
20:49:05 <ennael> it's not only about installer
20:49:19 <ennael> tmb: any opinion on this ?
20:49:30 <Akien> Maybe we could start the ISO testing for beta 2 now, but in a less intensive manner for QA.
20:49:41 <MrsB> QA is swamped at the moment
20:49:54 <filip_> mga2 EOL
20:49:56 <MrsB> we have 3 wks of updates to try and catch up on before Friday
20:51:13 <Akien> I agree with Dave mostly, we need to have the installer bugs found in beta 1 fixed, and then tested by one or two persons to check if those particular fixes worked.
20:51:40 <MrsB> the bug fixing is going to need to be driven
20:51:59 <ennael> we can agree on a *precise* list
20:52:18 <ennael> then I can manage it to kick the proper people to work on
20:52:57 <DavidWHodgins> Have tty terminals working in classical installer, and get the updates installed, at the end, are the two main ones from beta1.
20:53:02 <tmb> well, pushing RC release probably means it will be beginning of january as I dont know how many will be available during xmas
20:53:54 <tmb> that would then make ~3 weeks between RC and internal release
20:54:09 <ennael> which is what we had previously
20:54:33 <ennael> I'm just a bit concerned about having 10 days for bug fixing + isos release
20:54:58 <tmb> yeah, lets not kill QA either...
20:55:05 <ennael> :)
20:55:16 <MrsB> already quite killed
20:55:38 <Akien> Basically we don't want cauldron to change much between RC and the internal release, apart from bug fixes I suppose.
20:55:54 <ennael> yes
20:55:56 <Akien> So we could have RC at the beginning of January, and the internal release not too long after that.
20:56:26 <Akien> With one week break for QA in between :)
20:56:35 <MrsB> when are you, thomas and colin/tv going to be most available?
20:57:26 <tmb> yep, we will get into more stricter freeze push mode when we hit beta2, and when RC builds is started it will be critical only...
20:57:37 <ennael> I may not be too wrog sayig that it will be hard to have them betwee christmas ad ew year day
20:57:40 <ennael> ew
20:58:09 <Akien> ennael's N key died.
20:58:17 <MrsB> xmas -> new year is out imho
20:58:30 <ennael> oups
20:59:22 <MrsB> people need family time before xmas too
21:00:01 <MrsB> beyond dec 17th we will sturggle to get people involved, probably until january
21:00:07 <MrsB> struggle*
21:02:25 <ennael> so ?
21:03:19 <MrsB> well, when is it more important to have fixing time, between beta2 & rc or beta1 & beta2?
21:03:39 <tmb> so... beta2 at 2013-12-05 and RC on 2014-01-03 ?
21:04:40 <ennael> maybe 5 rather ?
21:04:40 <DavidWHodgins> If the installer bugs can be fixed by beta2, then we can concentrate on application and upgrade issues, after that.
21:04:41 <Akien> tmb: Maybe a bit later for RC, if we count that many people won't be available before Jan 1st
21:05:32 <Akien> Something such as Jan 5th or 6th might be better
21:06:27 <tmb> so RC on 2014-01-06  to get whole weekend for tests?
21:06:34 <Akien> Sounds good.
21:06:38 <MrsB> The 6th allows the weekend after new year.
21:06:40 <MrsB> yep
21:06:51 <Akien> Hopefully it will be flawless, then we can have fun and prepare to celebrate in January :p
21:06:58 <MrsB> or 5th which would be Sunday
21:07:35 <MrsB> when are you both going to be most available?
21:07:37 <tmb> well, nothing stops us to release "early" if the isos are good
21:07:47 <ennael> sure
21:07:48 <MrsB> yeah that's true
21:08:03 <ennael> so let say 6th for now
21:08:07 <MrsB> ok 6th then and aim for sunday ;)
21:08:49 <MrsB> beta2 on 6th  or even the same again allowing the weekend, 9th
21:08:53 <ennael> so beta2 at 2013-12-05 and RC on 2014-01-06
21:09:12 <ennael> so beta2 at 2013-12-09 and RC on 2014-01-06
21:09:26 <DavidWHodgins> Ok here.
21:09:33 <MrsB> it will be good publicity to release 'early'
21:09:44 <Akien> Then we must make sure everyone understands that the bug fixing period is
21:09:47 <Akien> now
21:09:51 <ennael> then for release freeze ?
21:09:51 <MrsB> yep
21:09:52 <Akien> Between beta1 and 2
21:09:57 <ennael> maybe we can keep the current date
21:10:22 <ennael> it's 17th
21:10:32 <ennael> can be 21rst for example
21:10:36 <MrsB> 14th at the moment
21:10:52 <ennael> raa 17th was the RC
21:11:13 <ennael> let say 23rd to prevent big breakage during christmas holidays
21:11:14 <ennael> :)
21:11:25 <MrsB> it's better to allow people the time they need to get things fixed
21:11:28 <Akien> :D
21:12:11 <ennael> tmb: opinion ?
21:13:05 <tmb> I'd say 21st for translations freeze and 22nd for release freeze (to get the translations in)
21:13:45 <tmb> then I we can build first RC for QA people getting bored by xmas :)
21:13:55 <ennael> :)
21:14:20 <MrsB> bearing in mind we have no artwork yet either :\
21:14:33 * ennael tries to imagine tmb as father christmas
21:14:43 <filip_> tmb: what exactly does translations freeze mean?
21:14:43 <tmb> ho-ho-ho
21:14:47 <ennael> :)
21:14:55 <MrsB> delivering isos to badly behaved children
21:15:30 <ennael> filip_: no new trasnlations
21:15:44 <tmb> filip_: it means the last date to be sure translations get into RC and final
21:15:50 <ennael> yep
21:16:00 <filip_> thx
21:16:27 <ennael> so
21:16:34 <Akien> Can we be sure that all software that we translate will be rebuilt after that (to include translations)?
21:16:50 <ennael> yes if we add this to todo list
21:16:58 <Akien> That would be nice.
21:17:01 <ennael> so
21:17:09 <ennael> beta2 at 2013-12-05
21:17:16 <ennael> 21st for translations freeze
21:17:21 <ennael> 22nd for release freeze
21:17:28 <ennael> RC on 2014-01-06
21:17:46 <MrsB> 9th beta2
21:17:52 <tmb> Akien: we usually rebuild all drakx & co after freeze to get them
21:18:01 <ennael> MrsB: yes sorry
21:19:09 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_4_Development#Development_Planning
21:20:17 <tmb> yep, looks good
21:20:42 <ennael> ok second thing we need to update release critical bugs list
21:20:52 <ennael> I think we do not have all of them inside
21:21:54 <MrsB> we've been adding 4alpha*, 4beta1 to whiteboard so bugs should be easy to find
21:22:09 <MrsB> leuhmanu set up a saved search for mga3
21:22:44 <MrsB> i think it just looked for ^4
21:22:58 <ennael> ok
21:23:30 <DavidWHodgins> I don't think we have anywhere near as many, as we had during m3 first build of final. The only bugs I consider release critical, are those that can't be fixed after release (live isos, and classical installers), and anything that stops getting to a working desktop, able to install updates.
21:24:43 <sebsebseb> hi
21:24:45 <MrsB> yep, agree with that
21:24:57 <ennael> well we will see but we need an up to date list
21:25:01 <MrsB> morning sebsebseb
21:25:03 <ennael> so do not hesitate to add some if needed
21:25:16 <DavidWHodgins> Is there a tracker bug set up?
21:27:09 <MrsB> i can't see one
21:27:19 <MrsB> shall I create one?
21:27:29 <DavidWHodgins> Please do.
21:29:48 <ennael> yep
21:30:16 <MrsB> bug 11704
21:30:22 <ennael> ok
21:33:20 <MrsB> did i miss anybody?
21:35:18 <ennael> malo ?
21:35:28 <MrsB> added malo
21:35:33 <MrsB> and philippe
21:35:35 <ennael> he may help also event if he is overbooked at the moment
21:35:52 <MrsB> al13n helped keep track last time
21:36:10 <philippem> yes I can, and think I will have more time soon
21:37:12 <ennael> thanks philippem
21:37:34 <ennael> MrsB: let start first with this list
21:37:47 <ennael> if people want to follow they can add themselves
21:38:03 <MrsB> yep, think i got about everybody :)
21:39:10 <ennael> anything else for this topic ?
21:39:29 <DavidWHodgins> Not here
21:40:26 <ennael> and we killed all others :)
21:40:31 <Akien> :)
21:40:35 <DavidWHodgins> ☺
21:40:39 <ennael> ok next one then
21:40:49 <ennael> #topic backports
21:41:09 * tmb hides
21:41:12 <ennael> :)
21:41:20 <ennael> well let say it's beta 1 fault :)
21:41:37 <MrsB> any time after friday is ok
21:42:13 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. Just need to know how the advisories will work.
21:42:21 <Akien> Hi malo, we're just starting to discuss backports
21:42:33 <tmb> yeah, I spent all time I had poking beta1 stuff, and then $dayjob has been killing me, so lets say ~the end of the month
21:42:35 <malo> Hi all sorry I'm laaaate
21:42:44 <MrsB> morning malo
21:42:54 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Fine by me.
21:42:59 <ennael> great
21:43:08 <ennael> it will also leave time for QA with updates
21:43:35 <DavidWHodgins> We did build quite a backlog during beta 1 testing.
21:44:15 <Akien> Currently installing a Mageia2 VM to help reduce the list :)
21:44:25 <MrsB> \o/
21:45:04 <DavidWHodgins> Most of the kernel testing has to be done on real hardware.
21:45:43 <ennael> so can we say backports planned for end of this month
21:45:52 <ennael> tmb: anything to be done to help you before ?
21:46:32 <tmb> ennael: nope, not really... I only need to review the youri acls, the rest should be ok
21:47:12 <ennael> ok
21:47:20 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: What about changes to mgadv for backports?
21:47:51 <tmb> DavidWHodgins: yeah, well that one I didn't even think about :(
21:48:11 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
21:48:26 <MrsB> will they need full advisories or just a list of what's available?
21:48:40 <tmb> I just looked at server-side tools to do the pushing and setting up ml and svn....
21:48:53 <DavidWHodgins> And perhaps a seperate mailing list
21:49:32 <tmb> yep, I planned a backports-announce list
21:49:52 <DavidWHodgins> We need to have clear instructions for developers, qa, and sysadmins, on steps to follow for backports.
21:50:53 <MrsB> We do have a policy but we'll need to make sure we all understand it and can educate others
21:50:54 <tmb> yep, I will write up what is needed as I set it up
21:51:36 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks!
21:51:59 <malo> tmb: thanks a lot!
21:54:06 <ennael> anything else on backports ?
21:55:48 <tmb> nope
21:56:06 <DavidWHodgins> Not here
21:56:20 <ennael> ok last one on the list
21:56:28 <ennael> #topic coming blog posts
21:56:43 * MrsB has one to add
21:56:50 <MrsB> topic
21:57:12 <ennael> yep
21:57:16 <ennael> let see first that one
21:57:24 <ennael> so we have a post about Mageia 2 EOL
21:57:31 <ennael> MrsB: are you the one on it ?
21:58:04 <malo> ennael: what should I do to be able to see or edit future blog posts?
21:58:20 <MrsB> i can do, it's going to be a really busy week thoguh
21:59:19 <Akien> i18n would have one blog post too if there's some room for us
21:59:47 <DavidWHodgins> All council members should have wordpress ids created so we can all see/edit blog posts.
21:59:49 <Akien> We migrated to transifex.com for the translations, and since it's quite easy to grasp, we'd like to advertise it
21:59:54 <ennael> malo: in your mailbox
22:00:03 <Akien> That could bring us some late translators before the translation freeze.
22:00:16 <ennael> Akien: go for it then
22:00:38 <Akien> We'll try to write it in the coming days
22:00:46 <ennael> thanks for that
22:00:55 <MrsB> i'll do mga2 eol in the morning then
22:01:03 <ennael> MrsB: if you need help, ping :)
22:01:15 <ennael> (not for proofreading :p)
22:01:18 <MrsB> :P
22:01:31 <MrsB> i'll let you fin a picture
22:01:34 <MrsB> find*
22:01:41 <ennael> ok
22:01:59 <ennael> any other proposal for the blog ?
22:02:19 <filip_> no
22:02:22 <DavidWHodgins> Not here.
22:02:33 <ennael> I would like to propose a post and make an interview of tmb
22:02:40 <filip_> +1
22:02:53 <DavidWHodgins> He's too busy! :-)
22:03:44 <ennael> tss :)
22:04:04 <MrsB> it'd be good idea, maybe even generate some extra sysadmins
22:04:18 <ennael> tmb: don't hide
22:04:56 <Akien> I like the idea too :)
22:05:29 <MrsB> when did we start offering a choice anyway ;)
22:05:44 <filip_> ;)
22:05:52 <DavidWHodgins> lol
22:05:55 <ennael> never so I'll send it in coming days
22:05:59 <ennael> thanks MrsB  :)
22:06:03 <MrsB> win \o/
22:07:05 <ennael> ok any other proposal ?
22:07:24 <MrsB> only for another topic if there is time please
22:07:39 <ennael> yep
22:07:44 <ennael> #chair MrsB
22:07:44 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: MrsB ennael
22:08:03 <MrsB> #topic mageiawelcome and the self-managed newsletter type list thing
22:08:28 <MrsB> I wrote to council ML a while ago about this
22:08:57 <MrsB> i think it's a great way for us to get in touch/keep in touch with our users and turn them into contributors
22:09:21 <sebsebseb> I read that email as wel, and same here
22:09:25 <DavidWHodgins> Where would we find content for it?
22:09:32 <MrsB> it sort of disappeared though so I'd liek to get opinions here
22:10:17 <DavidWHodgins> I can't see it working. We have trouble getting posts for the blog, as it is.
22:10:23 <MrsB> well, same place we do everything else. It'd be occasional emails reather than a newsletter
22:10:55 <MrsB> the trouble with the blog is people have to find it and keep finding it to keep up with what is happening
22:11:10 <sebsebseb> yep put in email address for occasional Mageia news, sounds goo to me
22:11:14 <leuhmanu> (looks like I was too distracted and therefore missed the meeting, sorry :/ , will backlog)
22:11:19 <DavidWHodgins> It has an rss feed, which is how I follow it.
22:11:24 <sebsebseb> leuhmanu: no it's still on
22:11:38 <MrsB> if it's a simple matter for them to enter an email address in a box and click submit, and as part of mageiawelcome they are much more liely to do so
22:11:50 * sebsebseb agree's with MrsB
22:12:18 <MrsB> people are used to doing this, they do it all the time for websites etc
22:12:25 <DavidWHodgins> Most people I know wouldn't use it.
22:12:37 <sebsebseb> the whole point as well was since many won't even get a Mageia identify account,  and that's a proccess that takes quite a few steps
22:13:06 <MrsB> are they more or less likely to sign up for a mageia id and then find and subscribe to the 'announce' mailing list though?
22:13:13 <DavidWHodgins> The captcha has be made easier to read!
22:13:33 <filip_> MrsB: how it will be different from announce ML?
22:13:42 <sebsebseb> MrsB: nope probably not hence your suggestion
22:14:04 <MrsB> well, people currently have to first create a mageia id, then find the sympa page and log in and then find the announce list and then subscribe
22:14:15 <MrsB> nothing guides them there
22:14:40 <ennael> why not include it in welcoime
22:15:09 <MrsB> if instead it was presented on the mageiawelcome screen which automatically opens when they first log in and all they had to do was enter an email address and click submit, i think they would do.
22:15:35 <DavidWHodgins> Maybe the welcomemageia could have an encrypted method to bypass the captcha, and create the identity?  That would probably be figured out by the spammers though.
22:16:03 <MrsB> why not simply use a self managed email newsletter type list?
22:16:13 <filip_> MrsB: I understood and agree about subscription part but how the content of the list would be different
22:16:36 * ennael would not workaround identity
22:16:38 <DavidWHodgins> Without the captcha, it would attract the spammers, just like the forums.
22:16:43 <ennael> rather help people to use it
22:16:47 <MrsB> we can't expect people (users) to just find their way to us magically
22:16:56 <MrsB> we have to bring them to us
22:17:26 <ennael> 3 screens in welcome
22:17:49 <ennael> want to keep in contact with mageia ? let's create an account
22:17:57 <ennael> second step is account creation
22:18:06 <ennael> third is click on register
22:18:08 <DavidWHodgins> I understand what you are saying Claire, but it's very hard to do, without getting overwhelmed by spammers.
22:18:34 <MrsB> there is a psychological difference between a mailing list and a newsletter type list
22:18:43 <MrsB> no spammers, it's one way communication
22:18:52 <ennael> captcha are everywhere now I don't think this is because of it that people do not contact us
22:18:55 <MrsB> it's not a 'mailing list' it's signing up to a newsletter
22:19:10 <Akien> I agree with MrsB, it's not like signing in to a ML
22:19:15 <ennael> but you want  to workaround identity ?
22:19:19 <MrsB> nope
22:19:21 <Akien> It's "Yeah why not I'd like to hear about Mageia"
22:19:28 <MrsB> avoid identity alltoether
22:19:34 <ennael> ?
22:19:37 <MrsB> yeah akien hats exactly it
22:19:39 <Akien> Just like your regular "fill in your email and we'll send you stuff with a link at the bottom to unsubscribe"
22:19:54 <filip_> +1
22:19:57 <ennael> what we want to do is one thing
22:19:58 <Akien> The good ol' fashioned newsletter
22:20:01 <MrsB> ok, when you buy something from a website they usually say enter your email address to recieve our newsletter
22:20:11 <ennael> newsletter is a kind of ML in sympa
22:20:23 <MrsB> no, you can't send email to a newsletter
22:20:27 <leuhmanu> wordpress have this no ?
22:20:32 <Akien> leuhmanu: I think so
22:20:35 <ennael> ok I give up :)
22:20:44 <MrsB> you just recieve email from it and if you dont want it any more just click an unsubscribe link
22:20:48 <leuhmanu> Subscribe to Blog via Email
22:20:48 <leuhmanu> Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.
22:20:51 <leuhmanu> Join 35 other subscribers
22:21:00 <DavidWHodgins> Any mailing list (one way or not), has to have a password associated with it, so the user can change/cancel their subscription. If that is not done through ldap, have to make sure the password is properly encrypted/salted.
22:21:14 <MrsB> it's nothing to do with ldap
22:21:17 <MrsB> or passwords
22:21:24 <Akien> Most newsletters don't have a password
22:21:32 <Akien> You only unsubscribe with your email address
22:21:36 <MrsB> exactly
22:21:50 <Akien> Meaning that theoretically anyone could unsubscribe you, but I don't think people unsubscribe other people from newsletters
22:21:53 <ennael> then use wordpress
22:22:04 <MrsB> wordpress has an addon for this apparently
22:22:05 <DavidWHodgins> Without a password, I could subscribe you, or unsubscribe you, without your approval.
22:22:14 <ennael> indeed
22:22:15 <Akien> Yes
22:22:39 <MrsB> you've seriously never subscribed to recieve a newsletter from a website?
22:22:49 <Akien> But that's already the same with all newsletters in the world. There are plenty of places on the internet where you just have to fill in your email address to subscribe to a newsletter.
22:22:51 <ennael> yes but I had to create an account
22:23:11 <Akien> Still, I don't receive emails from newsletters for which I did not subscribe. Maybe one, but I got it filtered as spam.
22:23:23 <DavidWHodgins> They have all always required creating an account with a password, so only I could unsubscribe.
22:23:44 <MrsB> they are managed by the subscriber, click the link to unsubscribe
22:23:49 <MrsB> no login/password
22:24:37 <DavidWHodgins> And the properly run ones also send a confirmation letter, which if not replied to, adds a block on that email address, for a period of time.
22:24:50 <MrsB> yes
22:25:06 <MrsB> there are external providers who do this professionally
22:25:12 <ennael> Subscribe to Blog via Email
22:25:13 <ennael> Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.
22:25:19 <ennael> it's on blog
22:25:35 <MrsB> can that be done through mageiawelcome
22:25:46 <DavidWHodgins> I think all we need is the blog rss feed.
22:25:59 <MrsB> if they have to do anything more than enter an email address and click submit then it's a waste of time
22:26:14 <Akien> MrsB: agreed.
22:26:34 <DavidWHodgins> WIth a rss feed, they don't even have to provide an email address.
22:26:52 <Akien> Either it's a one-click "I'd like to hear more about Mageia without effort from my side", or people have to go through the classic way with identity/rss feeds.
22:27:03 <Akien> The idea is to reach the people who would
22:27:05 <MrsB> they have to manually add an rss to their browser/feedreader etc.. wast eof time
22:27:14 <Akien> *not* use RSS feeds or register an identity account at first.
22:27:18 <MrsB> exactly, you get it Akien
22:27:31 <Akien> But who would be okay to hear from us from time to time.
22:27:45 <Akien> And since we're awesome people, they'd be incitated to join the community :)
22:28:01 <DavidWHodgins> I expect most would expect spam, so wouldn't subscribe.
22:28:18 <MrsB> there *are* ways for anybody already interested to get involved. We have to reach the people who never thought about it before.
22:28:19 <Akien> s/incitated/incited/
22:28:25 <DavidWHodgins> Like Mandriva used to do.
22:28:36 <DavidWHodgins> Still does.
22:28:42 <Akien> Mandriva sent spam?
22:28:55 <DavidWHodgins> From my point of view, yes
22:29:11 <MrsB> was there a simple link in the email to unsubscribe?
22:29:20 <DavidWHodgins> It didn't work
22:29:26 <filip_> +1
22:29:34 <MrsB> that's not a good example of what we're talking about then
22:29:54 <DavidWHodgins> But that is what people are going to expect.
22:29:59 <MrsB> i wouldn't
22:30:15 <ennael> http://jetpack.me/support/shortcode-embeds/
22:30:16 <[mbot> [ Shortcode Embeds Jetpack for WordPress ]
22:30:26 <DavidWHodgins> Because so many other companies do send what most people would interpret as spam.
22:30:45 <MrsB> 'Enter your email address to recieve occasional email from the mageia team'
22:31:29 <DavidWHodgins> Click here, to subscribe to our rss feed. Easy to undo, and they don't have to enter an email address.
22:31:29 <MrsB> i really think we have an opportunity here with mageiawelcome and stand to miss an opportunity if we don't do it
22:31:55 <MrsB> how do you subscribe to an rss feed though? you need browser/feed reader etc
22:31:58 <ennael> well a lot of people will tell you they don't like pop up and close it right away :)
22:32:18 <MrsB> so we don't bother to try?
22:32:26 <tmb> well, as its optional I dont see it hurting anyone
22:32:28 <filip_> ennael: but some will not
22:32:33 <DavidWHodgins> Without setting up an account, I could send a subscribe message for you, every day, so even if you unsubscribe, you'll still get it.
22:32:54 <MrsB> you can already do that from any website anywhere dave
22:33:01 <Akien> DavidWHodgins: Yeah, but nobody does that :)
22:33:16 <DavidWHodgins> Or, I could unsubscibe you.
22:33:21 <Akien> Ditto.
22:33:36 <MrsB> not without sending from ym email address or clicking the link in my email
22:33:39 <MrsB> my*
22:34:26 <Akien> Here is how looks the link to unsubscribe me from the Humble Bundle newsletter: http://humblebundle.us7.list-manage1.com/unsubscribe?u=a4273111bb&id=a406d06e11&e=490e367e9e&c=1c85d2f5b9
22:34:33 <DavidWHodgins> That type of abuse does happen, which is why all mailing lists do require accounts, protected by a password, with confirmed optin, that if not replied to won't repeat for a reaonable amount of time.
22:34:36 <Akien> (I removed a few letters, I don't want you to unsubscribe me)
22:34:49 <MrsB> mailing lists, yes, this isn't a mailing list
22:34:49 <ennael> :)
22:34:55 <Akien> There's no way Dave could guess all those parameters and unsubscribe me against my will.
22:35:08 <Akien> And this newsletter does not require an account.
22:35:17 * tmb can subscribe everyone to git/svn/soft commits lists so they get something to read...
22:35:23 <DavidWHodgins> If it's email address only, then it wouldn't be hard to figure out.
22:35:31 <DavidWHodgins> lol
22:35:33 <Akien> DavidWHodgins: See my link above.
22:35:43 <Akien> No email address. It's only how to find me in their database.
22:35:46 <MrsB> it isn't dave, there is a user hash
22:36:01 <Akien> And it's only accessible from the email they send me.
22:36:37 <ennael> ok can we move on
22:36:44 <Akien> Yep
22:36:49 <tmb> well, how about this to not argue all night... someone try to see what it takes to implement, then try for beta2 and discuss after that again ?
22:36:51 <ennael> or we will have breakfast together tomorrow morning :)
22:37:00 <Akien> I propose MrsB and I look into how we could set this up, and then we'll come back to you on this topic.
22:37:01 <DavidWHodgins> My point is spammers will abuse any system they can.
22:37:06 <filip_> tmb: +1
22:37:40 <MrsB> there is a wordpress addon or newsletter packages which would need admin or external providers
22:37:50 <DavidWHodgins> I'll just make it clear, that I'm not in favour of it.
22:37:52 <MrsB> see daniels response on the ml
22:38:01 <ennael> MrsB: it works inside wordpress only
22:38:19 <ennael> ok can you guys make a poc for beta 2 as proposed by tmb ?
22:38:29 <MrsB> yep, sure
22:38:45 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Which mailing list?
22:38:55 <MrsB> council
22:40:57 <tmb> ok, should we end or is there anything else ?
22:40:59 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: When? I don't see anything from daniels
22:41:13 <MrsB> 5th November
22:42:26 <tmb> DavidWHodgins: MrsB forwarded the mail
22:42:34 <DavidWHodgins> Must have deleted it by mistake. Can you forward me a copy?
22:42:42 <filip_> https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/council/2013-11/msg00011.html
22:42:43 <[mbot> [ council - Council discussions - arc_protect ]
22:44:01 <tmb> DavidWHodgins: I've forwarded it
22:44:04 <MrsB> https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/council/2013-11/msg00012.html
22:44:05 <[mbot> [ council - Council discussions - arc_protect ]
22:45:51 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Posted by you, not by Daniel.
22:46:42 <DavidWHodgins> Go ahead and set it up. If it shows to be open to abuse, we can kill it later.
22:46:48 <MrsB> yep, he's not on council.
22:46:52 <MrsB> http://wordpress.org/plugins/newsletter/
22:46:53 <[mbot> [ WordPress Newsletter � WordPress Plugins ]
22:48:11 * tmb has to get some sleep now
22:48:14 <ennael> ok so MrsB and filip_ works on poc for beta 2
22:48:26 <ennael> please keep us informed on council ML
22:48:32 <DavidWHodgins> Which can only be seen if you have a wordpress account, and are logged in.
22:48:33 <MrsB> sure ok :)
22:48:33 <filip_> ennael: Akien instead of me
22:48:56 <DavidWHodgins> Yeah, let's call it a night. My eyes are getting quite sore.
22:48:59 <ennael> oups
22:49:04 <ennael> filip_: sorry :)
22:49:19 <filip_> ennael: it's geting late ;)
22:49:29 <ennael> so Akien and MrsB of course :)
22:49:33 * ennael slaps ennael
22:49:34 <MrsB> the wordpress plugin isn't the only option dave
22:49:52 <ennael> can we close the meeting for tonight?
22:50:08 <MrsB> yep, thankyou for the discussion
22:50:29 <filip_> yes, thank you all
22:50:41 <DavidWHodgins> It's just that I've seen so many email/newsletter systems get abused, that I don't want Mageia to get a reputation as a spammer organization.
22:51:00 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: we are not spamers we just want to rule the world
22:51:06 <ennael> ok there :)
22:51:23 <ennael> thanks a lot for attending and for your time
22:51:29 <ennael> see you in 2 weeks
22:51:34 <ennael> #endmeeting