18:35:46 <misc> #startmeeting
18:35:46 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Oct 25 18:35:46 2010 UTC.  The chair is misc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:35:46 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:35:48 <misc> #meetingname Founders meeting
18:35:48 <Inigo_Montoya> The meeting name has been set to 'founders_meeting'
18:35:54 <misc> #chair rda ennael
18:35:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: ennael misc rda
18:36:16 <misc> #topic quick summary of Marseille trip
18:36:37 <misc> ok so boklm is not here, dams is still in bed, so I guess it is up to me
18:36:45 <ennael> yep :)
18:36:50 <misc> so, we racked the 4 servers, as explained on the wiki
18:37:19 <misc> they are all running mdv 2010.1, all with ipv4 and v6 connectivity, and nothing besides ssh and ntp have been setup yet
18:37:39 <misc> ironically, we are right under the plf server
18:38:07 <misc> all went well, so if people have questions, do not hesitate now
18:38:45 <misc> you could also see http://blog.mageia.org/?p=122 for a summary
18:38:52 <Nanar> maybe a stupid question: how do you connect to them ?
18:39:10 <misc> Nanar: for now, by ssh, but we didn't set up anything that mean no account yet
18:39:15 <misc> ( except root )
18:39:22 <Nanar> same as root ?
18:39:47 <misc> so we will collect ssh keys and setup ldap in the week
18:39:48 <Nanar> I mean should we give our ssh key ?
18:39:53 <Nanar> ok
18:40:13 <misc> #action misc ask for ssh keys of admins
18:41:36 <Nanar> second question:
18:41:50 <Nanar> should we start to setup it ASAP ?
18:42:16 <misc> that's the goal, once we decided the planning, which is the 2nd point of the meeting :)
18:42:37 <misc> ( but ASAP do not mean "right now" )
18:42:45 <ennael> Nanar is speed tonight :)
18:42:51 <coincoin> I'm up :p
18:43:12 <Nanar> I have things to setup which does not need other previous setup
18:43:24 <Nanar> others need discuss before
18:43:37 <misc> I am sure that you would need the ssh keys to be added first nonetheless
18:43:48 <Nanar> :)
18:43:49 <misc> but well, we can go on the 2nd point of the meeting
18:44:02 <coincoin> hello all
18:44:07 <misc> ( unless coincoin want to add something, or someone want to ask something )
18:44:52 <coincoin> nothing to add, your blog post is wonderful :)
18:45:00 <coling> Nope, not really (tho' I will miss shorewall which is my preferred way of configuring things :p)
18:45:29 <misc> ok so 2nd point
18:45:42 <misc> #review of sysadmin planning
18:45:46 <misc> #topic review of sysadmin planning
18:46:17 <misc> so i posted that, nanar and buchan responded https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-sysadm/2010-October/000037.html
18:47:25 <misc> so basically, first thing is to migrate DNS, then ldap/apache/CatDap ( buchan software ), then epoll, and move the mirror application
18:47:37 <Nanar> I did take as action the setup of: postgres, epoll, mga::mirrors, and rsync
18:48:01 <misc> #action Nanar setip epoll mga::mirros rsync postgres
18:48:11 <misc> #undo
18:48:11 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x824e2ac>
18:48:15 <misc> #action Nanar setup epoll mga::mirros rsync postgres
18:48:27 <Nanar> I can help on others
18:48:47 <Nanar> but I don't think we be hundred on a specific task
18:49:00 <misc> should ? can ? must ?
18:49:08 <Nanar> have to be
18:49:32 <misc> k
18:49:54 <misc> do we miss something else that should be installed in priority ?
18:51:02 <coling> Don't think so.
18:51:08 <Nanar> I don't see right now
18:51:21 <coincoin> neither do I
18:51:44 <misc> ok, and the secund question is from buchan, is there something that should be added in priority to CatDap ( the application that manage ldap )
18:52:04 <ennael> groups management ?
18:52:23 <ennael> so that we can manage resgistrations to differen,t services
18:52:27 <rda> yes, that
18:52:38 <coling> I think provided basic registration, user info and group management (roles) are all supported then it will be good to go.
18:52:44 <misc> already planned it seems
18:52:50 <misc> "-user modification (e.g. add posixAccount to existing user account, modify any
18:52:51 <coling> (and mail aliases)
18:52:53 <rda> ok
18:52:54 <misc> attributes necessary manually,
18:52:57 <misc> -group management (add groups, modify group membership etc.)"
18:53:03 <coling> cool
18:53:19 <misc> coling: that would mean setup a real smtp server, i think this is not the priority for now
18:53:33 <ennael> for ML ?
18:53:58 <Nanar> don't we need a svn server to store config ?
18:54:09 <coling> OK misc it's just that I would like to get mageia.org email addresses used ASAP for upstream contributions in git logs etc.
18:54:32 <coling> But it can wait obviously.
18:54:51 <misc> coling: well, we can do it at the same time we setup sympa and mailling list server , ie likely in 2 weeks, ( or for the next sysadmin batch of task )
18:55:01 <ennael> outch
18:55:17 <misc> ennael: i am pessimist, it can be faster of course :)
18:56:24 <misc> I guess one week will be enough to setup ldap, the web app, epoll, dns and so on, but I would prefer not give a promise I cannot fullfill
18:56:41 <misc> anyway, for the planning, anything to add ?
18:56:52 <coincoin> demanding on the fact: will you destroy servers anymore? :p
18:57:23 <misc> coincoin: well, you have to crush one so the other ones fear you, it is like the mongol
18:57:36 <coincoin> :)
18:58:06 <Nanar> we'll when setting up pam-ldap is we can still connect
18:58:13 <Nanar> we'll see
18:58:21 <Nanar> s/is/if/
18:58:26 <misc> anyway, besides this, anything to add ?
18:58:45 <tmb> install the vmscan patched kernel :)
18:59:26 <misc> ok, we will see on sysadm list for this
19:00:05 <misc> blingme, you are here ?
19:01:40 <misc> ok, timeout, let's skip ldap until buchan is back
19:01:41 <MrTom> seems he isn't
19:02:00 <misc> #topic wiki setup
19:02:15 <misc> so I think it is up to ennael and MrTom
19:02:21 * misc give the mic
19:02:29 <ennael> well was misc proposal
19:02:34 <misc> oups
19:02:42 <ennael> the pb now is we have a temporary wiki
19:02:46 <ennael> growing up
19:02:56 <ennael> and we have many things to add on it
19:03:11 <ennael> as an example all things about sysadmin
19:03:27 <ennael> so it means setting up a final one should be a priority
19:03:50 <ennael> I asked MrTom to think about a general organization to avoid getting same mess as wa had on mdv wiki
19:03:59 <ennael> MrTom: can you give the link ?
19:04:03 <MrTom> http://mrtomserver.dyndns.org/public/Mageia.org.html
19:04:12 <ennael> MrTom: yuor turn :)
19:04:27 <rda> ennael: what mess?
19:04:40 <coincoin> s/mess/mes5/ ?
19:04:42 * coincoin runs
19:04:44 <rda> or MrTom then? :)
19:05:01 <ennael> MrTom: can you give some expllanations about your proposal ?
19:05:04 <MrTom> OK i look a lot at Fedora Project's wiki, how things are organized there and modified it a but according to what I thought was better
19:05:27 <misc> a bit ?
19:05:59 <MrTom> The wiki is organized by project and subproject, each page giving information about how the project works and its rules
19:06:20 <MrTom> there is no documentation on it, or very few
19:06:40 <MrTom> it's just all about rules and principles
19:07:07 <MrTom> this proposition lacks  : feedbacks, catagories organization
19:07:12 <MrTom> it's up to you now :)
19:07:29 <ennael> any comment on that proposal ?
19:07:42 <MrTom> but we can delay that part on a ML
19:07:57 <MrTom> to let time people lookint at it
19:08:13 <misc> well, it seems fine to me, but the previous wiki also looked fine ( mainly because I didn't use much )
19:08:30 <MrTom> misc, I plunged into it, it just looked fine
19:08:39 <Nanar> it's ok to me, once I can find something on it (I just hate wiki :)
19:08:42 <wobo> If I understand this correctly we are talking about the "Project Work" wiki, not a documentation wiki for Mageia distribution, richt?
19:08:45 <misc> ( previous aka mdv one )
19:08:55 <MrTom> wobo, yep right
19:09:31 <MrTom> misc, indeed :)
19:09:34 <misc> that mean we will have a separate wiki for documentation about the software ?
19:09:34 <Nanar> what will contains our wiki ? everything including devel doc ?
19:10:04 <Nanar> our wiki or this wiki
19:10:15 <MrTom> misc, the creation of documentation is still to be debating i guess
19:10:22 <misc> devel, you mean doc for contribution ?
19:10:34 <ennael> misc: we are testing some applications for documentation
19:10:37 <ennael> the one from neodoc
19:10:50 <wobo> :)
19:11:13 <ennael> they proposed us to setup a test instance
19:11:17 <MrTom> Nanar, the suggestion I make would contain all the organizational stuff about the OS : how to join, participate, things to do etc.
19:11:25 <ennael> policies
19:11:50 <ennael> everything we had on mdv wiki except documentation
19:12:01 <ennael> meaning software doc
19:12:07 <Nanar> ok
19:12:27 <wobo> and except such things like release notes, errata
19:12:33 <ennael> ?
19:12:36 <misc> so basically, if I write a tutorial about how to setup something like a radius server , where would it go ?
19:13:01 <ennael> wobo: I would have it on wiki. Where do you want to store it ?
19:13:04 <MrTom> wobo, release notes are part of documentation in my mind, errata are inside the wiki
19:13:10 <wobo> ennael: release notes belonging to documentation, right?
19:13:42 <wobo> MrTom: no, release notes and errata should be together
19:13:49 <rda> I'm not sure it's safe to split things in separate wikis at this time, unless we have a better understanding of what we have
19:13:52 <ennael> pb is generating something logicial and mixing doc and wiki will be hard
19:14:07 <wobo> yes
19:14:07 <ennael> rda: it's not separate wikis
19:14:28 <ennael> it's html pages  generated by neodoc apps
19:14:33 <ennael> from docbook
19:14:45 <wobo> outch!
19:14:50 <rda> ok but then how do you manage user-generated documentation that comes as an extra?
19:14:50 <misc> I think the proposal is unclear to me
19:15:07 <misc> ( or maybe that's because I am still sick )
19:15:43 <coincoin> Marseille killed us
19:15:54 <ennael> ok what about writting it down ?
19:15:54 <rtp> misc: better to ask for more details now than never :)
19:16:16 <misc> well, so basically, we have the documentation about the project itself
19:16:50 <rda> ennael: yes. list all that we have in the mandriva wiki, all that we may have in our next to be wiki+doc+whatever system
19:16:56 <misc> the documentation about the software ( ie distro ) and the documentation about the softwares in the distro ( like kmail, totem, etc ) for megeia
19:17:01 <ennael> yep
19:17:03 <coincoin> errata are often updated in the weeks after the release so we must be able to regenerate html when we want (possible with docbook?)
19:17:05 <misc> and we have release notes, errata, etc
19:17:17 <misc> and we have different need
19:17:28 <misc> like documentation of the project is not tied to a version
19:17:31 <ennael> ok we will list everything
19:17:36 <ennael> and try to sort all this
19:17:41 <ennael> is that ok ?
19:17:45 <MrTom> very OK:)
19:17:45 <rda> yep
19:17:48 <misc> or release notes need to be 1) translated 2) put on cf
19:18:00 <misc> so shall I assign to MrTom to do this ?
19:18:13 <misc> s/cf/cd/
19:18:21 <ennael> I can work on it with MrTom
19:18:26 <MrTom> yep you can
19:18:35 <wobo> one more:
19:18:57 <misc> #action ennael MrTom clarify the proposal about wiki, neodoc software and documentation
19:19:15 <wobo> at Mandriva wiki we had horizontal hierarchy, I'd go for a vertical hierarchy here
19:19:27 <rda> between what and what?
19:19:32 <ennael> can you explain quickly what you mean ?
19:19:42 <misc> ennael: rotate screen 90° left
19:19:47 <coincoin> :)
19:19:55 <wobo> misc: yes.
19:20:26 <wobo> ok: vertical in addressing, meaning a section, subsections, etc.
19:20:54 <rda> ok. good to know that in advance because it rules out some technical options.
19:21:09 <misc> speaking of technical options
19:21:29 <misc> the reason I wanted to speak of this is that we do not know what to install
19:21:38 <misc> mainly because we do not know the requirement
19:21:43 <ennael> yep
19:21:48 <ennael> still I did not understand wobo
19:21:50 <ennael> worry
19:21:59 <misc> so, I would ask the webteam for requirements
19:22:00 <rda> ennael: in mediawiki, you have a flat namespace
19:22:14 <rda> and you can have namespaces to add some kind of hierarchy, but that doesn't work so good.
19:22:16 <misc> afaik, the only thing I know is that is should support ldap
19:22:43 <rda> on the other hand, you can use categories, but those do not appear as such when navigating pages, because a same page can belong to as many categories as you like.
19:22:48 <rda> misc: :)
19:23:02 <rda> it should have interwiki capabilities
19:23:03 <misc> and that it should be free software, supported by apache, if possible packaged but I know this can/will be lifted if needed
19:23:34 <rtp> misc: use dices to choose :)
19:23:35 <misc> and it may be good to have some i18n integration
19:24:00 <misc> and it should scale if possible
19:24:07 <rda> define scale here?
19:24:20 <wobo> why not ddokuwiki, the one we have now for temporary? It has the best document locking
19:24:23 <rda> as for i18n integration, be careful
19:25:05 <misc> rda: usually, I translate this to "not written in java" :)
19:25:08 <rda> the scheme we used with mdv wiki was good enough, flexible and good.
19:25:10 <rda> misc: :D
19:25:15 <rda> ok, granted.
19:25:16 <ennael> and one last thing we should be able to have easy way to have nice templates to avoid crappy geeky interface
19:25:26 <misc> yeah, nice templating too
19:25:40 <rda> well, usually, you can do that.
19:25:46 <rda> it takes just time to build a new template.
19:25:52 <ennael> well we did not do it in mdv
19:25:53 <rda> time and a touch
19:25:59 <ennael> yep
19:26:00 <rda> ennael: time and capabilities.
19:26:07 <rda> but changing mediawiki template is not that hard.
19:26:17 <wobo> dokuwiki supports flat namespace and hierarchical, a page can belong to several namespaces, it has lots of nice templates :)
19:26:26 <misc> well, there is 42 wikis on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_wiki_software
19:26:38 <rda> wobo: and then we should install separate wikis per locale as well?
19:26:40 <misc> nd we need one, and it seems that everybody has a favored wiki engine
19:26:57 <misc> so instead of discussing it right now, I think we should compile a list of specs
19:27:06 <misc> and then short list the wiki based on this list
19:27:20 <misc> and then debate until the last susrvivor decide what should be used
19:27:22 <rda> sure
19:27:37 <misc> ( the last part may be improved )
19:27:39 * rda has no pref anyway
19:27:40 <wobo> rda, doesnÄ't dokuwiki support multilingual?
19:27:41 * ennael will buy new knifes
19:27:53 <rda> wobo: that's my question :)
19:28:00 <rda> bare hands is more fun
19:28:05 <misc> so who volunteer to do the specs ? (ie ask sysadmin, webteam, documentation writer, users )
19:28:37 <wobo> rda: will find out (we are using dokuwiki on MU.de)
19:28:40 <rda> could be good that MrTom and ennael do as well; matching technical requirements as well as content organisation/architecture
19:28:40 <misc> ( timeframe being 3/4 days for the specs, and 3/4 days for deciding )
19:28:49 <ennael> yep
19:28:50 <misc> rda: good idea
19:29:08 <misc> #action ennael MrTom flesh out requirement for the wiki for next week
19:29:17 <misc> ( good luck )
19:29:20 <ennael> outch
19:29:28 <ennael> :me should have shut her big mouth
19:30:02 <misc> ( i would rather try to make peace in Yougoslavia than taking care of that )
19:30:07 <ennael> :)
19:30:14 <misc> ok so next topic ?
19:30:27 <ennael> yep
19:30:42 <Nanar> misc: Yougoslavia is no longer in war
19:30:59 <misc> #topic ISO 0 specs proposal
19:31:04 <wobo> Nanar: no, now they're fighting underground
19:31:04 <ennael> nope
19:31:15 <ennael> setting up Mageia build system
19:31:26 <misc> ennael: yes, i know, but I think rda may want to go to bed sooner
19:31:40 <ennael> oh ok old people need to sleep more :)
19:31:45 <coincoin> :)
19:31:50 * rda slaps ennael
19:31:53 <ennael> aie
19:32:10 * wobo still waits for the decision about slap fee
19:32:10 <ennael> rda: your turn my lord :)
19:32:17 <ennael> :)
19:32:17 <rda> wobo: :)
19:32:29 <rda> so..
19:32:50 <rda> not everyone has access to the old project wiki so I'll move this into the new one.
19:32:58 <rda> by the end of the meeting.
19:33:14 <rda> goal is to list the specs for the first ISO with priority rules
19:33:29 <rda> as what must be in it, what should, could or will not.
19:33:51 <rda> it helps to put things in perspective for the next ISOs as well as leaving out the unnecessary, given the _very_ short time constraint we have.
19:35:22 <rda> as well as this one, I'll set up a page for the whole project roadmap
19:35:26 <rda> for the coming months ahead
19:36:43 <misc> after reading the proposal, I think I have nothing to add :)
19:37:12 <ennael> rda: how did you get that ?
19:37:15 <rda> :p
19:37:18 <rda> ennael: get what?
19:37:33 <ennael> misc quiet and agreeing on all
19:37:36 <rda> sorry, copying/pasting the thing in the right wiki format. go ahead, I'll update as soon as I'm done.
19:37:45 <rda> ennael: sign a blank sheet of paper :-p
19:37:49 <coincoin> I think that misc wants a pizza in fact
19:37:52 <misc> yeah
19:38:21 <misc> #action rda move the proposal to the wiki and give the link
19:38:25 <wobo> I think the most tedious task is to remove Mandriva names, logos, etc. while leaving GPL related credit lines in place.
19:38:37 <rda> indeed
19:39:19 <misc> that's work that we could 1) start ASAP 2) crowdsource
19:39:23 <Nanar> shouldn't icons being replaced ?
19:39:32 <ennael> Nanar: yes
19:39:36 <misc> but that mean to have a collaboration infrastructure ( like a wiki )
19:39:38 <ennael> rda: a job for design team
19:39:54 <tmb> should we decide the rpm tag too ?
19:39:56 <ennael> rda: we should mail them for it just now
19:40:04 <Nanar> I mean all icons (gnome/kde apps/action/menu item)
19:40:10 <ennael> tmb: yep why not it's not that long
19:40:11 <rda> ennael: yep, just let me put the thing online
19:40:15 <ennael> rda: ok
19:40:16 <coincoin> Nanar: MCC, etc...
19:40:27 <rda> but again, not having dedicated ml for them makes it a bit harder to coordinate
19:41:35 <misc> yup, well, we can create ml on mailman, but the issue about what list to create still exist
19:41:35 <rda> http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=iso_0_specifications
19:41:38 <Nanar> I am refering to icons made by mdv, not one made by kde/gnome project of course
19:42:08 <ennael> Nanar: that's what we were speaking about
19:42:15 <Nanar> ok
19:42:29 <misc> rda: so, what ml should be created ?
19:42:34 <ennael> the only tricky point together with documentation
19:42:50 <misc> maybe we could create a ml for the task "clean mageia from mdv" ?
19:43:07 <misc> ( or a forum, for that matter )
19:43:15 <rda> misc: for the graphic artists/artwork team
19:43:44 <rda> misc: we can derive a wiki page already for that topic in itself. many items to check.
19:44:18 <misc> rda: just give the name of the ml, send it to root@zarb, and we will create it :)
19:44:43 <misc> ( and migrate it later , and I hope it will not be too painful )
19:45:37 <rda> misc: ok, will do that tomorrow morning (checking with list people first)
19:45:59 <misc> ok so for the iso roadmap, nothing to add ?
19:46:11 <misc> #action rda send a email for graphical team creation
19:46:23 <rda> misc: well, just a point to be sure.
19:46:32 <rda> do we expect to ship something usable by december ? or just an alpha?
19:46:46 <ennael> alpha
19:47:30 <tmb> pretty much a cooker snapshot :)
19:47:42 <rda> ok, so please update the specs :)
19:47:49 <ennael> ?
19:47:55 <rda> with a calendar: first alpha for start of december
19:47:59 <rda> so that's not a final
19:48:12 <ennael> where do you see that ?
19:48:26 <tmb> at top of page "this to be a stable, running and usable ISO"
19:48:55 <guillomovitch> s/ISO/distribution/
19:49:01 <ennael> yep
19:49:17 * coling things we need a release out and ready before the next ubuntu release with a working Gnome Shell implementation (considering todays announcement concerning that!)
19:49:24 <coling> *thinks
19:49:32 <rda> http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=roadmap (light)
19:49:43 <ennael> coling: yep but first one in december will be an alpha
19:49:50 <ennael> given the planning
19:50:01 <misc> well, I assume that we want on the next topic, aka roadmap ?
19:50:03 <coling> well, I doubt we can skip alpha stage :D
19:50:13 <misc> #topic roadmap
19:50:20 <ennael> but we need a date for final release
19:50:21 <misc> s/want/went/
19:50:30 <rda> ennael: before FOSDEM?
19:50:36 <ennael> outch
19:50:41 <ennael> no way :)
19:50:57 <misc> if we use the debian way, we can
19:50:59 <guillomovitch> "when ready"
19:51:02 <rda> it's good to specify this now then :)
19:51:02 <misc> we just do not say the year
19:51:36 <misc> but I truly thin we will be ready to set up the assembly , so it is better to do it after
19:52:33 <ennael> I guess april would be more realistic
19:52:53 <rda> be careful, because then it changes the specs, somehow.
19:53:04 <rda> what gets shipped at what expected times?
19:53:06 <ennael> why N
19:53:06 <misc> rda: when you say "project offline for holidays", should we shutdown the server ?
19:53:11 <rda> misc: nah :)
19:53:35 <rda> misc:  or, we could. that would make one more difference from other projects.
19:54:14 <misc> that would not be different from mandriva
19:54:28 <wobo> rda: no, Mandriva had server shut down for holidays, at least once :)
19:54:34 <rda> :)
19:54:40 <ennael> can we come back to topic ?
19:54:48 <ennael> already 1h30 meeting :)
19:55:04 <wobo> yes, go
19:55:19 <tmb> maybe target Solution Linux in beginning of April for final release ?
19:55:19 <misc> yup
19:55:20 <rda> ok, so what would you expect for ISO shipping. alpha 1 in December, alpha 2 in January ?
19:55:26 <misc> yep
19:55:32 <ennael> tmb: sounds good indeed
19:56:06 <misc> #agreed final release around April
19:56:16 <misc> #agreed first alpha around december
19:57:22 <misc> well, nothing to add ?
19:57:30 <rda> what about the more global roadmap?
19:57:33 <rda> (second link)
19:57:51 <ennael> it means we have decided what kind of roadmap we want
19:57:56 <rda> we could discuss it later anyway. parts of it depend on the first ISO milestones.
19:58:05 <rda> ennael: ?
19:58:12 <ennael> and decide about rolling release dbate
19:58:13 <misc> rda: from the sysadm point f view, it sound ok
19:58:13 <ennael> debate
19:58:25 <rda> ennael: ha, yes.
19:58:28 <ennael> we need to give a final decision
19:58:34 <rda> we can list dependencies in terms of policies
19:58:51 <misc> rda: except one question : what does "social net" mean, in "setup" ( november )
19:58:51 <rda> it's in the MUST HAVE section
19:59:05 <rda> misc: still thinking about a elgg platform to setup for the project.
19:59:12 <ennael> misc: you will have to speak with real users
19:59:16 <rda> but it's still an experiment project
19:59:24 <rda> ennael: tssss does who wants to do so.
19:59:55 <misc> rda: ok, I tought it was about something on the web site, like setting facebook etc account ( and wondered, since it already existed )
20:00:13 <rda> misc: it's something somehow like facebook, yes.
20:00:29 <rda> but on our side, integrated with our own apps and auth system.
20:00:36 <misc> I know elgg :)
20:00:54 <rda> oh ok :-p
20:01:24 <misc> ok so the roadmap
20:02:00 <wobo> sorry have to leave, cut my left hand, need stitches, bleeding, bye!
20:02:10 <misc> bye
20:02:28 <rda> so obvisouly, some of the "will not have" things will move upward
20:02:38 <rda> oups
20:03:27 <misc> ?
20:04:39 <rda> we lost wobo
20:04:46 <misc> well, i guess the topic is over ?
20:04:50 <rda> the specs were written first with december in mind.
20:04:59 <rda> well, yes. we'll review that later then.
20:05:15 <misc> well, the spec look fine to me
20:05:21 <rda> k
20:05:35 <misc> ambitious, but fine :)
20:07:06 <misc> ok so I guess we can go on next topic
20:07:17 <misc> #topic Buildsystem setup
20:07:41 <misc> so
20:07:56 <misc> ennael: you seemed to have a plan , so it is up to you
20:08:45 <ennael> well not a plan
20:09:01 <ennael> but build system is a big piec and we need to have things ready as soon as possible
20:09:04 <misc> a plan of the meeting :)
20:09:28 <ennael> so my idea was to have some kind of project manager for that specific topic
20:09:38 <ennael> to organize work on it
20:09:53 <misc> yup
20:10:08 <misc> as all project that requires more than 1 person :)
20:10:40 <ennael> yep but this part is important as people are expecting a lot
20:10:46 <ennael> and we cannot miss that one
20:11:21 <misc> sure
20:12:12 <ennael> so now we need one guy who know how to speak to others, with some spare time
20:13:01 <misc> you have a proposal in mind ?
20:13:04 <coincoin> blino is still part of the BS?
20:13:22 <ennael> he can help but his job is taking him some time
20:14:57 <guillomovitch> he found a real job ?
20:15:03 <coincoin> yep
20:15:08 <ennael> :)
20:15:13 <misc> yeah, he work at soft@home, but that's not the topic
20:17:31 <misc> ok so no project coordinator ?
20:18:06 <misc> ( i could do, but I do not fill to be the perfect person for this )
20:18:21 <ennael> in what sense
20:18:53 <misc> well, I would be too dictatorial for that :)
20:19:39 <blino> coincoin: I can help
20:19:58 <blino> I think the easier would be to replicate our old Mandriva setup first
20:20:00 <blino> to bootstrap work
20:20:03 <misc> s/fill/feel/ ( guess this has more meaning )
20:20:11 <misc> blino: yeah, that's what we decided
20:20:25 <blino> it does not prevent working on some alternative, if some people have the energy
20:21:02 <blino> first, we would need to deploy and test iurt on the 2 nodes
20:21:17 <blino> then, setup ulri + emi on the main system
20:21:19 <misc> blino: so we can nominate you as project coordinator ?
20:21:39 <blino> I am not sure I can commit enough time for that
20:21:42 <misc> ( because the goal is to find a victim, not to tell what the victim will do :) )
20:22:05 <coincoin> blino: \o/
20:22:32 <ennael> does it need to have strong skills on bs ? if it's just question of coordination I can help on this
20:22:35 <blino> if I get access to the nodes, I am ok to setup the initial BS
20:23:06 <blino> misc: but if we have to migrate cfengine rules to puppet, I am afraid I won't find time to do that
20:23:32 <misc> blino: I can do it, as I said, the cfengine rules are really very short and achive almost nothing
20:23:54 <misc> not to mention that the current setup is just different ( ie, no need for nfs home dir )
20:24:09 <MrTom> sorry i have to go
20:24:12 <MrTom> see you tomorrow :)
20:24:13 <misc> ( and no need to also run the node on cooker, as we plan to build only in iurt )
20:24:18 <coincoin> cya MrTom
20:25:32 <blino> misc: yeah? where has this been discussed?
20:26:13 <misc> blino: good question, guess it wasn't :/
20:26:29 <misc> coincoin: ?
20:26:45 <misc> ( in fact, i think it is boklm, but he is absent for the moment )
20:27:38 <coincoin> yes, perhaps boklm... I don't remember this discussion on ML or IRC
20:27:38 <misc> anyway, we still didn't find a project coordinator about this, and since nothing have been setup
20:28:12 <misc> well, let's say this will be the job of the project coordinator to take care of that ?
20:28:26 <blino> isn't boklm available for this?
20:28:32 <ennael> yes he is also
20:28:39 <misc> but not now
20:28:41 <ennael> not there tonight we will see him tomorrow
20:29:09 <blino> using iurt as the only way to build packages is not very practical
20:29:26 <blino> it will really slow down the packaging process
20:29:36 <misc> so, do we report this for next meeting, for tomorow, or do we decide that boklm is the one ?
20:29:56 <ennael> I can see with him tomorrow
20:30:00 <ennael> I let you know
20:30:03 <rda> what's the alternative?
20:30:11 <misc> alternative to ?
20:30:15 <rda> BS
20:30:29 <misc> i still do not understand :/
20:30:36 <rda> you seem to hesitate between jumping to a new scheme or staying with the current one (current mandriva one)
20:31:03 <blino> the main alternative would be OBS
20:31:24 <blino> but it requires weeks/months to be studied and deployed, and have similar feature level
20:31:28 <rda> and what are the pluses/minuses/obstacles/benefits?
20:31:51 <rda> (that is, did you write it down somewhere?)
20:33:07 <rda> (just asking)
20:33:07 <misc> I do not want to act as a bad (hungry) guy, but I think we should focus on finding a project coordinator rather than discussing technical detail :/
20:33:25 <ennael> yep
20:33:27 <blino> rda: I think somebody started that on the initial wiki
20:33:35 <misc> rda: basically, we postponed BS changes after the first release, so nothing got written
20:33:46 <misc> ( almost nothing then )
20:33:53 <rda> right, but that was with a first release planned for december.
20:33:58 <misc> ennael: so, we see in 3 days, after boklm is back ?
20:34:04 <ennael> yep
20:34:05 <rda> here, the first release is being pushed in April
20:34:26 <ennael> misc: we will mail founders about it
20:34:47 <misc> #action ennael see with boklm about project coordination for BS setup
20:35:09 <misc> anything to add on this part ?
20:35:25 <blino> misc: how do I get access to the nodes?
20:35:38 <coincoin> blino: send your ssh keys
20:35:40 <misc> blino: see mail I have sent on sysadm :)
20:35:41 <blino> should I go through the project coordinator, or is it possible to prepare the things early?
20:36:08 <ennael> well I guess we will have boklm answer tomorrow morning
20:36:28 <misc> blino: well, if the project coordinator coordinate nothing, we can as well not nominate one
20:36:51 <misc> but I would prefer that we focus on setting up ldap, and others stuff first
20:37:07 <misc> as I said in the planning mail, and as i said previously in this meeting
20:37:39 <rda> can't this be done in parallel at some stage?
20:37:41 <blino> ok, I'll talk to boklm once you've coerced him to volunteer
20:37:43 <ennael> misc: things can be thought before about bs
20:38:47 <misc> rda: well, sure, but this requires some coordination , which goes back to the previous point
20:39:04 <ennael> ok
20:39:09 <rda> misc: indeed
20:39:11 <ennael> so we wait for boklm answer :)
20:39:53 <misc> ok so nothing to add ?
20:40:04 <rda> faim !
20:40:12 <ennael> nope
20:40:35 <coincoin> nope
20:40:43 <coincoin> rda: faim ! on va manger o�)
20:40:51 <rda> coincoin: tu livres à domicile ?
20:40:52 <misc> #endmeeting