19:11:56 <Akien> #startmeeting
19:11:56 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Jun  5 19:11:56 2014 UTC.  The chair is Akien. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:11:56 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:12:02 <Akien> #chair filip__
19:12:02 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: Akien filip__
19:12:25 <Akien> Hi everyone and welcome to our monthly meeting
19:12:26 <Akien> Of May :-)
19:12:37 <papoteur> psyca: my answer after meeting ;)
19:12:39 <yurchor> Hi!
19:12:46 <psyca> papoteur: ok
19:12:58 <filip__> welcome from my side as well
19:13:22 <psyca> Hi
19:13:27 <Akien> #topic Who's new?
19:14:12 <Akien> From what I understood psyca joined the project recently, and we have the pleasure to have you for this meeting too :-)
19:14:14 <filip__> I like that topic
19:14:16 <Akien> Welcome aboard!
19:14:39 <psyca> :D thanks :)
19:14:46 <papoteur> Welcome psyca
19:14:46 <yurchor> Yes, welcome aboard! :)
19:15:23 <psyca> thanks @ all
19:15:57 <Akien> Es freut mich, wenn es ein bisschen Bewegung im deutschen Team gibt :-D
19:16:09 <Akien> So, let's proceed ;-)
19:16:33 <Akien> #topic Status report on the incoming internationalised wiki
19:17:31 <Akien> As we discussed during the last few months, the internationalised wiki should arrive soon. You probably remember that we've been speaking about it for years (literally), but now it's in the hand of tmb, so it should happen :-)
19:18:12 <yurchor> Yay! Thanks great tmb! ;)
19:18:21 <Akien> We got some infos from tmb off-list (I don't know why it was off-list, but still..)
19:18:35 <Akien> The blocking factor for now is the update of the Mageia servers
19:19:12 <Akien> Part of the infrastucture has been upgraded to Mageia 4, but the process screwed a few things
19:19:37 <Akien> Now the sysadmins require a manual intervention in the datacenter in Marseilles, France before they can move further
19:19:53 <filip__> the new server should arrive before the end of the month so the upgrade can proceed
19:20:02 <psyca> Will then every language integrated in the same (one) wiki?
19:20:16 <Akien> They bought a brand new server too, so they will probably fix the infra at the same time that they install the new server.
19:20:24 <filip__> yeah
19:20:31 <Akien> Afterwards tmb will upgrade the wiki to MediaWiki 1.23 LTS (when it's released)
19:20:40 <Akien> (it's currently in RC)
19:20:50 <Akien> Ah no, it got release yesterday :-)
19:21:06 <psyca> ok... Kudos to tmb
19:21:08 <Akien> #info MediaWiki 1.23 LTS has been released, we will use it for Mageia's wiki
19:21:35 <Akien> #info Wiki upgrade is waiting for sysadmin intervention in the datacenter in Marseilles, France, it should happen in June
19:21:53 <Akien> psyca: Basically we should have something similar to Wikipedia
19:22:35 <Akien> If I understood correctly, there would still be one wiki per language, but with links between similar pages on every wikis
19:22:59 <psyca> yep..
19:23:03 <Akien> And the Translate Extension that we will be using is aimed at translating the content of the English wiki
19:23:35 <Akien> So basically the localised wikis would be: a partial translation of the English wiki + some pages without equivalent in the English wiki
19:25:29 <Akien> psyca: We will have to give some thoughts about how to backport the content you already translated to the German wiki once we have the translate extension.
19:26:12 <Akien> Same goes for the pages which have been translated but are hosted on the English wiki (e.g. Release notes in French, Turkish maybe?)
19:26:29 <filip__> PT-BR
19:26:30 <papoteur> Akien: and pt_BR
19:26:42 <Akien> Great :-)
19:26:45 <papoteur> ;)
19:27:10 <Akien> That's it for this status report, more news when the infrastructure has been upgraded (hopefully soon!)
19:27:29 <Akien> We won't forget to harass the sysadmins with the wiki upgrade once it's done ;-)
19:28:04 <Akien> #topic Policy for accepting new contributors on Transifex
19:29:02 <Akien> You probably know that until know we've been accepting every wannabe translator on Tx, apart from the applicants to the Turkish team, because the latter asked us to let them manage their team (which is fair).
19:29:36 <filip__> I agree. I actualy like their policy
19:29:38 <Akien> tarakbumba told us that their policy is to ask the applicants to join the i18n-tr mailing list and introduce themselves
19:30:28 <Akien> This way they can check that the applicants are actual people, motivated by the project (hopefully using Mageia) and with a good language proficiency in Turkish
19:30:45 <papoteur> For French, we haven't policy. Do you observe some mistranlation ?
19:31:05 <yurchor> Some people just think they can earn money from translations and try to join every single team without any obligations...
19:31:48 <filip__> yeah it seems so
19:32:04 <yurchor> There are still some requests pending. Should I accept them now?
19:32:30 <filip__> yurchor: I think soo. anyone disagree?
19:32:39 <Akien> yurchor: Maybe after we've decided upon a policy, maybe we want to do as the Turkish team does :)
19:32:44 <yurchor> Italian, Portuguese, Chinese and Arabic.
19:33:17 <Akien> papoteur: I haven't noticed any problem with the French translations. They were mostly updated by Dune, who's also joined the mailing list and does a good job.
19:34:04 <filip__> hi marja. welcome around
19:34:17 <Akien> Hi marja9 :)
19:34:49 <Akien> So until know I haven't noticed people who intentionally produce bad or wrong translations, or break the work of others
19:35:03 <filip__> neither did I
19:35:12 <Akien> Hopefully everything is versioned in git, so if there were any issues, we could revert them
19:35:25 <yurchor> +1
19:35:33 <Akien> So our current policy ("accept anyone") does not seem like a big issue with regards to the quality of the translations
19:35:45 <filip__> but it seem that there are a lot of unactive translators too
19:35:52 <Akien> Now, I think the Turkish team policy improves the quality of the community
19:36:34 <Akien> We would all love to be an active community and to work with friends more than with total strangers lost in a mass of inactive translators
19:37:10 <papoteur> Thus, the important thing is to invite people to join us.
19:37:25 <filip__> I think it might encourage new tx translators to join the list if we ask them to
19:37:34 <Akien> So maybe "forcing" people to get in touch and follow the community would be better for the community
19:38:06 <Akien> Basically, translators who are really motivated by the project would be glad to get in touch with the rest of the community
19:38:29 <filip__> I think forcing is no a good word but we can say that translations need to be commited so they can inform us when to do that
19:39:28 <Akien> filip__: I agree for the smallest teams, with one or two active contributors
19:39:31 <filip__> I share the opinion on motivation. But there are also other who didn't contribute in OSS world yet
19:40:05 <filip__> I know I was scared and unsure what to do ;)
19:41:37 <filip__> maybe we can add in the request that they can also contact us directly on tx _IF_ they really don't wan't to join ML
19:42:04 <Akien> Yes
19:42:19 <Akien> But actually I'm looking at Tx, and I can't find easily how to contact a team
19:42:22 <marja9> hi all, sorry, my connection to my irssi sessions is very flakey
19:42:55 <filip__> Akien: me neither
19:44:10 <Akien> Actually on Tx you can't find any information about a team policy
19:44:24 <filip__> they might add such option as tx development seems alive
19:44:45 <yurchor> Akien: Everyone can contact the coordinator. It is possible to click on the nick and send a message.
19:44:49 <Akien> There's only "
19:44:49 <Akien> If you are new to Mageia's internationalization team, please subscribe to the i18n-discuss mailing list on ml.mageia.org to be in touch with the rest of Mageia's translators. You might need to create a Mageia account on identity.mageia.org if you don't have one yet." and a link to our portal on the wiki
19:46:10 <yurchor> For me, if they do not care about fate of their translations (as it should be for those who do not want to contact the team) we should not either...
19:46:41 <yurchor> This sitiation was very common for LP/Ubuntu translations.
19:46:41 <filip__> good point
19:46:56 <Akien> yurchor: That's true, but I suppose for many translators they just don't really understand how it works
19:47:06 <Akien> They probably think that doing their job on Tx is enough
19:47:36 <Akien> And seems our wiki is not so much up-to-date, they might not find information about it easily
19:47:57 <filip__> I asked two team who had at least one resorce for web page translated close to 100% but only one responded so I added Albainian lang to the web apges
19:48:03 <yurchor> Not really. I have some examples when people (even from otehr language teams) finally contact me by Tx mail if they care.
19:48:12 <Akien> Just a question, I'm looking at the new "teams" interface of Tx. Did they completely remove the team discussions part?
19:49:16 <filip__> wiki content update should be on our todo but after team merge topic ;)
19:49:43 <Akien> Ok let's move forward. Should we bring this policy discussion to the ML?
19:50:19 <filip__> I agree with that proposal
19:50:35 <marja9> yes please
19:50:46 <Akien> Just one thing, even if it can't be made clear on a team's page that they have a specific policy, I guess team coordinators could send emails directly to the applicants to explain them the process
19:50:52 <yurchor> Akien: We can try, but I do not expect some results. Seems like the people'ss nature...
19:50:56 <Akien> (just the mailing list if there is one, etc.)
19:51:13 <Akien> s/just/join/
19:51:26 <marja9> Akien: I contacted all new Dutch translators via Tx, none of them replied
19:51:29 <yurchor> And yes, I cannot find the discussion page too.
19:51:40 <filip__> or main ML if there isn't any
19:51:48 <Akien> yurchor: That's true. Let's try anyway :-)
19:52:19 <Akien> #action Akien starts a discussion on the ML about Tx teams management and acceptation policy
19:52:50 <Akien> #topic Possible merger with docteam?
19:53:48 <filip__> lebarhon already expresed his opinion
19:54:01 <Akien> This has already been discussed from time to time, and I remember that at that time I thought it was better to keep the teams distinct since documentation writing and content translation are quite different tasks.
19:54:18 <Akien> Still, I'm starting to change my mind slowly :-)
19:54:34 <Akien> It's true that a big part of docteam's work is to handle the translation of the documentation
19:55:24 <marja9> Akien: no longer, since it is done in the i18n-team way
19:55:28 <Akien> As long as it was a Calenco-only process, it was somewhat beyond the reach of "lambda" translators of the l10n team, but now that everything can be translated in Tx, the picture is somewhat different
19:55:35 <Akien> marja9: Indeed
19:55:54 <Akien> So as I said on the ML, there is now basically three types of actors in our two teams:
19:56:03 <Akien> - Documentation writers
19:56:14 <Akien> - Content translators on Tx
19:56:37 <Akien> - i18n people who make sure that translated content gets pushed/commited/uploaded/packaged and so on
19:57:26 <marja9> maybe (because it is so hard to get people to do that) making localised screenshots could be mentioned as a separate task?
19:57:34 <Akien> So it starts to make sense to consider a big team that would be the merger of the three subteams: documentation, l10n and i18n
19:57:48 <papoteur> marja9 deals also the last part for documentation part.
19:58:17 <marja9> papoteur: and pasmatt :-)
19:58:38 <filip__> I'm for merging the team. we can still split if it turns bad or unmanagable ;)
19:58:45 <marja9> filip__: lol
19:59:39 <papoteur> I have very strict point of view about that.
19:59:46 <Akien> How would it be called? d11n + i18n + l10n? :-D
19:59:52 <papoteur> s/ have not
20:00:12 <Akien> Hehe, I was wondering what was this very strict point of view of yours :-)
20:00:14 <marja9> Akien: the *n team
20:00:26 <filip__> lebarhon also dreams about it ;)
20:00:58 <Akien> Concretely, what would the merger imply?
20:01:11 <Akien> Should we keep both mailing lists, or merge them into a single one?
20:01:28 <papoteur> there is some point that are common, some other not. I do  not imagine very well how a big team will run.
20:02:00 <filip__> We're over an hour but this topic is very important and complex too ;)
20:02:02 <marja9> Akien: I've felt in the past that both mls already received too many mails
20:02:16 <Akien> filip__: We started at 21:10 ;-)
20:02:21 <marja9> Akien: merging them would make it worse
20:02:31 <filip__> yeah. maybe we should keep them separate
20:03:07 <Akien> So basically, we wouldn't be merging the teams as such, but we could think of us as one big team
20:03:09 <filip__> what about common name, meeting ...
20:03:19 <Akien> Have common meetings, indeed
20:03:19 * marja9 even thinks there should be a separate mail for pure l10n stuff
20:03:28 <marja9> s/mail/mailing list/
20:03:52 <Akien> And make sure that the all the l10n stuff gets handled on i18n-discuss
20:03:56 <filip__> I agree as it would be easier to manage
20:04:03 <Akien> Or l10n-discuss yes
20:04:33 <marja9> Akien: I agree with that, no more cross-posting language mails on docteam ml
20:05:15 <Akien> So we could have doc-discuss for documentation writers, i18n-discuss for technical topics with regards to the translation work, and l10n-discuss to gather all the translators and let them tell us when to commit their work
20:05:25 <marja9> Akien: +1
20:05:30 <Akien> We're talking merger, and now we want a third ML :-D
20:05:36 <marja9> grinz
20:05:38 <Akien> But yes it makes sense
20:06:15 <filip__> indeed it does
20:06:46 <papoteur> What will be the concrete changes in the work we do if the team are merged.? For me it's the main question.
20:07:29 <filip__> I think only the new ML for l10n stuff
20:07:41 <papoteur> :)
20:07:45 <filip__> and common meeting I gues
20:08:23 <filip__> time can give more exact answer
20:08:23 <Akien> For me the change would mostly be to start thinking of the documentation resources as something similar to the cauldron software
20:09:03 <papoteur> Akien: ?
20:09:16 <papoteur> Which link with cauldron ?
20:09:19 <Akien> Development is done on dev, documentation writing on doc-discuss, and in the end the translation work is done by l10n
20:09:32 <Akien> Regardless of the content being drakx_share or mcc-help
20:09:37 <filip__> we should not forget people who would like to only do some l10n stuff and don't intend do digg into Cauldron
20:11:02 <Akien> So I don't know if what we're discussing would be more of a merger or just a clearer separation between i18n and l10n, with docteam on its own to write the documentation (but not necessarily care about the i18n aspects of it)
20:11:34 <Akien> Well let's continue this off-meeting or on the ML, the bell is ringing :-)
20:12:14 <papoteur> Akien: I don't think we can complety separate docuentation and translation
20:12:19 <filip__> yeah. maybe we should build a better picture
20:12:40 <papoteur> filip__: +1
20:12:42 <filip__> papoteur: that's the point of merging the team
20:13:00 <filip__> one point
20:14:27 <Akien> #topic Wiki portal
20:14:48 <Akien> This would be related to the potential merger, and there were some actions in the last meeting that haven't been done yet: http://meetbot.mageia.org/mageia-i18n/2014/mageia-i18n.2014-04-24-19.06.html
20:15:07 <Akien> So let's stop here for now, and maybe look at those actions :-)
20:15:57 <Akien> No objection?
20:16:19 <filip__> not from me
20:16:23 <yurchor> +1
20:16:36 <papoteur> no objection
20:16:36 <Akien> Thanks everyone for attending then!
20:16:40 <Akien> #endmeeting