17:01:05 <marja> #startmeeting
17:01:05 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Sep 17 17:01:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is marja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:05 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:35 <marja> #topic Wiki (and bugs 7440, 7443 and 7445)
17:02:17 <marja> MrsB has tested the new wiki package + some addons, unfortunately she found some bugs
17:02:59 <diogenese> I ran into the same bugs.
17:03:12 <marja> obgr_seneca was on holiday last week, so he hasn't been able to work on the bugs (and one is in another package)
17:03:27 <marja> diogenese: thx for telling
17:03:42 <marja> diogenese: can you please say that in the bug reports, too?
17:03:52 <marja> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7440
17:03:53 <marja> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7443
17:03:53 <[mbot> [ Bug 7440 Mediawiki does not recognise php-sqlite3 database driver during web based installation ]
17:03:55 <marja> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7445
17:03:55 <[mbot> [ Bug 7443 Unable to show images from skins (Forbidden) unless apache 2.4 directives used in webapps.d ]
17:03:57 <[mbot> [ Bug 7445 Mediawiki-math README.install.urpmi gives unclear instructions ]
17:05:55 <marja> anyone who has the talent and time to help with those bugs is of course welcome to help, but please contact obgr_seneca, so you won't double up on work
17:06:22 <marja> are there any questions or remarks about this topic?
17:06:36 <diogenese> I didn't say anything because there was nothing new to add. Accept for may the location of LocalSettings.php. The new mediawiki would only run if LocalSettings.php was in /usr/share/mediawiki.
17:06:38 <marja> JohnR: great that you made it, btw ;)
17:07:03 <JohnR> ;)
17:07:32 <MrsB> you need to copy localsettings.php into the directory you used when you created the wiki with mediawiki-create diogenese
17:07:35 <marja> diogenese: the first rule in triaging is, that bugs need to be reproduced by someone else than the reporter
17:08:22 <marja> diogenese: bugs are often taken less seriously as long as no one confirmed them, so it would be great if you could still do that
17:08:27 <MrsB> so for example mediawiki-create /var/www/html/wiki then copy the localsettings.php into there
17:08:49 <MrsB> sorry, hi :)
17:09:05 <marja> MrsB: hi :)
17:09:34 <diogenese> MrsB: I did that. It was by chance I found this bug. It kept saying the installation was not complete after I copied the LocalSettings.php into the instance. Only worked with it in /usr/share/mediawiki. Was waiting to talk to you about it.
17:10:01 <diogenese> marja: I'll do that.
17:10:02 <MrsB> never had to do that here :\
17:10:11 <marja> diogenese: thx a lot
17:10:29 <diogenese> MrsB: I figured it out after the 6th clean install and setup.
17:10:53 <marja> MrsB: what? ---> [19:10] <MrsB> never had to do that here :\
17:11:25 <MrsB> i never had to put localsettings.php into /usr/share/mediawiki as diogenese did
17:11:37 <marja> MrsB: OK, thx :)
17:12:21 <marja> is there more on this topic?
17:12:49 <MrsB> not from me :)
17:13:10 <marja> #topic Calenco documentation
17:13:52 <marja> #info we have 2 new contributors, stblack and jensm
17:14:21 <Kernewes> hi you two
17:14:48 <MrsB> hi Kernewes
17:14:53 <Kernewes> MrsB: hi
17:14:56 <marja> stblack has said hello on the ml
17:14:59 <grenoya> welcom
17:15:14 <MrsB> and hi jensm and stblack
17:15:26 <MrsB> and grenoya
17:15:31 * MrsB half asleep
17:15:38 <marja> jensm: feel free to introduce yourself on the ml (or here, now)
17:15:39 * Kernewes three quarters asleep
17:15:44 <marja> lol
17:15:46 * JohnR too 'ning all :-)
17:15:53 <MrsB> and JohnR :D
17:16:06 <marja> stblack: jensm: do you both have login credentials now?
17:16:31 <jensm> marja: yes
17:16:40 <marja> nice :)
17:16:45 <marja> stblack: you too?
17:16:59 <stblack> yes I have.
17:17:06 <marja> great :)
17:17:07 <stblack> tested just now. live.
17:17:17 <JohnR> great!
17:18:55 <marja> #info in calenco, it is possible to edit a file in the small edit frame on the right / bottom, however if you do that, your changes don't go in the history, so if a later edit goes wrong, we can't roll back to the one you did there
17:20:05 <stblack> so which is the right way to do it ?
17:20:20 <marja> #action ALL: after you edited a file in the edit frame in calence, download it and upload it again, so the version will be bumped at we'll have it in the history
17:20:36 <marja> stblack: either by downloading, editing, uploading
17:20:57 <marja> stblack: or using the xxe add on (that one bumps the version, too)
17:21:47 <marja> stblack: since you're in i18n too, I suggest you use the method with gettext
17:23:19 <marja> jensm: stblack: when you start working, please be in this channel, so you can ask questions if needed, but also so that we can warn you in case the Calenco server needs to be rebooted
17:23:51 <Kernewes> marja: does that apply to proofreading as well?
17:24:08 <JohnR> kewYes
17:24:14 <marja> Kernewes: ^^^
17:24:17 <JohnR> opps
17:24:26 <JohnR> Kernewes: yes :-)
17:24:30 <Kernewes> thanks
17:25:54 <marja> Does anyone have anything else about this subject?
17:27:06 <marja> (about calenco)
17:27:50 <stblack> I need to read calenco manual.
17:28:00 <Kernewes> me too
17:28:01 <stblack> I've never used before
17:28:35 <marja> stblack: Kernewes: there are old Mdk files you can play with
17:29:03 * marja checking
17:29:11 <stblack> good.
17:29:14 <Kernewes> thanks
17:30:58 <marja> #info in calenco, there are a lot of old files from Mdk, they all are dated 2011-12-02. Feel free to use them to test things
17:31:45 <stblack> ok marja
17:31:49 <Kernewes> will do
17:32:34 <JohnR> #info You can also download a snapshot of the entire databaseif you need
17:32:42 <marja> Kernewes: stblack: if one of you wants to move a bunch of those old files to a new classification "playground": feel free to do that
17:33:03 <marja> s/move/add/
17:33:41 <marja> thx JohnR :)
17:33:54 <marja> #chair JohnR
17:33:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: JohnR marja
17:34:12 <marja> next topic?
17:34:15 <stblack> marja, that means ?
17:34:30 <marja> stblack: chair or topic?
17:35:13 <stblack> playground
17:35:50 <marja> stblack: that is a name that is often given to a space where you can test things by doing whatever you like
17:36:10 <marja> stblack: it is sometimes called sandpit, I think
17:36:24 <diogenese> sandbox
17:36:34 <marja> diogenese: thx, you're right
17:36:37 <stblack> ok. now I follow you.
17:36:54 <diogenese> They do mean the same thing ;)
17:37:11 <JohnR> I've just created Playground and Sandbox for all :-)
17:37:18 <Kernewes> thank you JohnR
17:37:59 <marja> stblack: those files are now only in the "All Files" classification, but the new files are there too, putting them in a Sandbox makes the chance smaller that someone will accidentally play with "good" files
17:38:19 <marja> JohnR: :)
17:38:45 <marja> next topic?
17:39:49 <marja> #topic How to keep good track of who contributes to documentation team, so
17:39:50 <marja> we won't forget names for the Mga3 credits
17:40:02 <marja> #undo
17:40:02 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x842e5ac>
17:40:28 <marja> #topic How to keep good track of who contributes to documentation team, so we won't forget names for the Mga3 credits
17:41:40 <marja> #info marja has already lost track of who has been translating for documentation team or working on the wiki since Mga 2 was released
17:42:41 * marja would hate to forget someone when we're asked to tell who's been helping.... so what can we do to not let that happen
17:43:12 <JohnR> marja: I can get the list of contributors from Calenco, don't know if it's the same list as the wiki though
17:43:40 <JohnR> marja: I'll try to remember to write a Credits.xml
17:43:43 <Kernewes> I haven't done anything on Calenco yet, only a bit on the wiki.
17:44:03 <marja> JohnR: it is not the same..... and I think one or more translators sent their translations to you, or am I wrong about that (esperanto?)
17:44:17 <marja> Kernewes: that counts :)
17:44:46 <JohnR> marja: The EO files were only for moving from ES to EO
17:45:31 <marja> JohnR: ah great, so he does have access.... thx, I had forgotten about the move :)
17:45:37 <JohnR> yep
17:46:00 <marja> JohnR: yes, then we are pretty much OK for Calenco
17:46:07 <Kernewes> is there no way to generate a list of people who've made changes to wiki pages?
17:46:15 <Kernewes> then if you have that for Calenco
17:46:22 <marja> Kernewes: probably
17:46:27 <JohnR> Kernewes: Look at the history for that page
17:46:35 <Kernewes> so those two lists would cover everyone?
17:47:04 <JohnR> Kernewes: More than likely :-)
17:47:16 <Kernewes> JohnR: but you don't want to go through every wiki page to see who's worked on it
17:47:21 <Kernewes> JohnR: that would take ages
17:47:23 <JohnR> true
17:47:56 * marja thinks if we include everyone who ever worked on a wiki page, there'll be 100 new doc team members
17:48:11 <Kernewes> wow
17:48:31 <marja> Kernewes: maybe we should only mention those who are in documentation team + those who wrote a lot
17:48:51 <Kernewes> don't you have to be in docs team to work on the wiki?
17:49:07 <JohnR> Actually, I think it's pointless try to credit wiki pages, anyone with mageia ids can make changes regardless of whether they're on doc or i18n teams
17:49:07 <marja> Kernewes: anyone can work on the wiki
17:49:27 <marja> JohnR: yes, but those in doc team know the rules
17:49:32 <Kernewes> ah yes, once you're logged in you can edit pages
17:49:36 <marja> JohnR: they clean things up
17:50:16 <JohnR> marja: so we try to credit wiki authors or not?
17:50:23 <marja> Kernewes: you have been proofreading wiki pages and made other things better too (for new users)
17:50:31 <Kernewes> marja: only a bit so far
17:50:35 <marja> JohnR: not any author
17:51:02 <marja> JohnR: those who helped to keep the wiki clean and who wrote things that are needed
17:51:50 <JohnR> marja: I think that may require sysadmin intervention to get that data :-(
17:52:00 <JohnR> opps
17:52:15 <marja> JohnR: those who care about the wiki, are in doc team :)
17:52:23 <JohnR> marja: I think it may require sysadmin intervention to get that data :-(
17:53:11 <marja> JohnR: so doc team members who were active in the wiki + (when we know about the pages) people who wrote really good things
17:53:22 <JohnR> yep, I know :-)
17:54:14 <marja> JohnR: the wiki is mostly obgr_seneca's toy, we can leave that list to him ;)
17:54:22 <JohnR> hehe
17:55:35 <marja> #action obgr_seneca sees to it that, before Mga3 release, a list of real wiki contributors is made
17:56:16 <marja> is there more on this topic?
17:57:41 <marja> #topic anything else that needs to be said (or would be nice to say ;) )
17:58:05 <JohnR> #topic Screenshots
17:58:15 <marja> JohnR: speak :)
17:59:04 <JohnR> I've been looking at our screenshots and the varies pixel widths etc. I found a way to 'standardise them
17:59:58 <JohnR> the example I have is:      convert -geometry 800x600 in.png out.png
18:00:20 <marja> can you show a "before" and "after" standardisation... what it looks like in a publication?
18:00:25 <JohnR> Where in and out are the names of the shot
18:01:03 <Kernewes> is that using GraphicsMagick or something else?
18:01:20 <JohnR> All it does is reduce the image to one size - in the example above to 800x600 pixels
18:01:30 <marja> JohnR: what happens to a screen that is 700x200? doesn't that look weird, when standardised?
18:01:38 <JohnR> Kernewes: yes part of the Imagemagic suite
18:02:08 <JohnR> marja: there shouldn't be sizes like that one - I hope
18:02:31 <marja> JohnR: I made a few screen shots of wide and low screens
18:02:42 <Kernewes> if you only want a small part of a screen, it might be like that
18:03:05 <JohnR> marja: The idea is to avoid some shot taking the full width (or even larger) in the published file
18:03:51 <marja> JohnR: for those low and wide shots, just changing the width to 800 would do
18:03:52 <JohnR> The main thing is to try and keep the same width - say 800px
18:04:00 <Kernewes> that's what I was thinking
18:04:30 <marja> so blow up small screens, too?
18:04:58 <Kernewes> would that display properly?
18:05:19 <JohnR> This method will also reduce the possibility or inserting megabyte-sized images in webpages :-)
18:05:33 <JohnR> marja: yes it can do that as well
18:05:56 <JohnR> opps
18:06:05 <JohnR> This method will also reduce the possibility of inserting megabyte-sized images in webpages :-)
18:06:05 <marja> JohnR: but should it be done, for instance for http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/MCC/content/drakrpm-edit-media.html#d4e488
18:06:06 <[mbot> [ 13. Configure Media ]
18:06:56 <JohnR> marja: yes - good example
18:08:06 <JohnR> marja: especially when compared to sshot further down that page
18:08:19 <JohnR> shhots!
18:08:40 <marja> JohnR: I agree it looks messy, but I'm afraid to make things even worse
18:08:51 <JohnR> all 3 are different widths - looks untidy
18:09:07 <Kernewes> but if they had the same width
18:09:14 <Kernewes> you'd have one with the text looking small
18:09:19 <Kernewes> one with it looking large ...
18:09:27 <Kernewes> that wouldn't look right either
18:09:27 <marja> Kernewes: yes
18:09:47 <marja> and the proportions of the letters might look weird
18:09:51 <Kernewes> yes
18:10:44 <Kernewes> I had 2 or 3 attempts at some of the screenshots for my pages
18:10:50 <Kernewes> to try and get them to display clearly
18:10:51 <JohnR> umm? Why does the content text matter - i doubt that anyone is goingto actually read that content ???
18:11:30 <Kernewes> well if the screenshot is showing a menu item or something like that
18:11:51 <JohnR> Kernewes: it does depend on the method you use to take the shot
18:11:56 * marja solved it a few times by making a screenshot of the top screen together with the screen under it, the one below is alway 800x600
18:12:29 <Kernewes> marja: what do you mean?
18:12:47 <marja> JohnR: Kernewes: the 2nd screen on this page is an expample
18:12:50 <marja> http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/MCC/content/diskdrake--smb.html
18:12:51 <[mbot> [ 41. Access Windows (SMB) shared drives and directories ]
18:12:58 <JohnR> My point is that if make sure the original shot is at say 800px wide then the rest follows
18:13:31 <Kernewes> marja: oh I see
18:13:47 <marja> JohnR: but you might end up with extremely high screenshots :/
18:14:02 <JohnR> marja: no, I don't think so
18:14:22 <marja> JohnR: did you see that 2nd screenshot ^^^
18:14:27 <JohnR> yup
18:14:33 <marja> do you like that better?
18:14:45 <JohnR> it works well there
18:14:56 <marja> and it is what the user really sees
18:15:04 <JohnR> yup :-)
18:16:23 <marja> shall we do that when the smaller screen is on top of a still visible bigger one, and in the other cases stick to width = 800 ?
18:16:38 <JohnR> Other option is to not use the depth="" parameter and allow the parser to sort the depth part
18:16:51 <JohnR> marja: yes
18:16:56 <marja> OK :)
18:17:17 <marja> Kernewes: do you agree?
18:17:20 <Kernewes> yes
18:17:23 <marja> do all agree?
18:17:49 <JohnR> don't forget that you can change the window size to fit as well before taking the shot
18:18:03 <Kernewes> JohnR: I did that once or twice as well
18:19:05 <Kernewes> or perhaps use a VM so the VM window is always the same size
18:19:09 <JohnR> so the trick is: take your shot, then do the convert to set the size and resolution, then in the doc use width="800"
18:19:29 <marja> #action make screenshots 800x600 by default, if a smaller screen pops up on top of a normal one, make a screenshot of them together, in all other cases set the width to 800
18:20:53 <marja> is there more on this subject?
18:20:54 <JohnR> marja: yes, but being careful about the byte-weight of the image as well - nothing bigger than say 150kb
18:21:15 <marja> JohnR: can you put that in an action?
18:21:38 <JohnR> #info being careful about the byte-weight of the image as well - nothing bigger than say 150kb
18:23:03 <marja> JohnR: I never looked at the size of my images, i might have to make them more fuzzy to become smaller (less kb)
18:23:39 <JohnR> convert will do that for you
18:23:53 <marja> OK :)
18:24:40 <marja> we're ready, I guess? shall we end the meeting?
18:24:51 <Kernewes> yup
18:25:04 <JohnR> ready when you are :-)
18:25:06 <marja> #endmeeting