18:09:22 <obgr_seneca> #startmeeting 18:09:22 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Sep 20 18:09:22 2011 UTC. The chair is obgr_seneca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:09:22 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:09:30 <obgr_seneca> #chait trishf42 18:09:36 <obgr_seneca> #chair trishf42 18:09:36 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: obgr_seneca trishf42 18:09:44 <obgr_seneca> Just in case... 18:09:58 <obgr_seneca> So first I'd like to welcome all of you 18:10:19 <obgr_seneca> Even if I did hope for more people since 10 have registered to the ml 18:10:57 <obgr_seneca> So first let me tell you about the topics I set up for tonight's meeting 18:11:17 <obgr_seneca> If anybody has anything to add, that's fine with me 18:11:18 <obgr_seneca> Top1: Team building 18:11:18 <obgr_seneca> Top2: docteam responsibilities 18:11:18 <obgr_seneca> Top3: wiki 18:11:19 <obgr_seneca> Top4: official doc 18:11:29 <obgr_seneca> #topic team building 18:11:54 <obgr_seneca> Ok, first of all, I'd like to introduce myself 18:12:58 <obgr_seneca> My name is Oliver Burger and I was aked by the council to finally start the docteam 18:13:22 <obgr_seneca> We do realize that we waited far too long for this and we hope you'll forgive us for that 18:14:08 <obgr_seneca> And I thank you all, that you have come inspite of that 18:14:59 <obgr_seneca> any comments that far? I don't really want to be the only one talking here... 18:15:34 <JohnR> I'm John Rye, I was a member of the Mandrake/Mandriva Doctem from 2001 until 2009 when Mandriva decided to no longer publish hardcover documentation. 18:16:33 <obgr_seneca> and you are with neodoc if I'm not mistaken? 18:16:38 <obgr_seneca> hi andre999 18:16:40 <JohnR> I'm part of Neodoc, a French company which specializes in technical documentation 18:16:54 <andre999> hi :) 18:16:59 <JohnR> hi andre999 18:17:45 <JohnR> I'm a native English speaker with rather more than 60 years experience :-) 18:18:12 <obgr_seneca> Nice to hear since as far as I can tell most of us aren't native speakers ;) 18:18:48 <obgr_seneca> ok, anyone else here wanting to do a short introduction? 18:18:57 <JohnR> yes, My function was/is to polish the EN in our docs :-) 18:21:21 <obgr_seneca> This seems to become a rather quiet meeting :( 18:21:33 <andre999> maybe I should 18:21:41 <obgr_seneca> andre999: go ahead 18:21:53 <andre999> I grew up in a bilingual en-fr environment 18:21:54 <trishf42> hey, sorry, hi all 18:22:26 <andre999> I've had a lot of experience documenting mostly my own software 18:22:27 <obgr_seneca> hi trishf42 18:22:34 <andre999> both in en and fr 18:22:35 <trishf42> sorry I'm late! 18:22:57 <trishf42> I'm currently heading marcom (a team of 1 at the moment but I hope that's about to change) 18:23:09 <andre999> plus have done a lot of translation en -> fr, mostly open src software 18:23:22 <trishf42> I'm a native English speaker, I like doing docs, but for a little while I might not have a lot of time. 18:23:27 <andre999> that's how I started contributing to open src 18:23:59 <andre999> and I like useful, suscinct documentation 18:24:06 <trishf42> andre999: +1 18:24:15 <JohnR> echo 18:24:18 <Skiper> obgr_seneca: Sorry, phone 18:24:57 <obgr_seneca> succinct, you always learn new words :) 18:25:02 <obgr_seneca> Skiper: no prob 18:25:16 <andre999> :) 18:26:27 <obgr_seneca> thankfully the university of munich is providing a rather good translation database :D 18:26:35 <obgr_seneca> lebarhon: what about you? 18:26:52 <trishf42> 8-) and if there are a few documenteers, proofreading is possible! 18:27:09 <trishf42> my current job there are no proofreaders, urk 18:27:12 <lebarhon> Well, not so much to tell 18:28:01 <lebarhon> unfortunately, i am not really bilingual. I worked mostly for the MDV wiki 18:28:50 <lebarhon> as I am found of photo ,I translated/wrote some pages for MDV 18:29:22 <obgr_seneca> ok, I'll tell you what I know about Skiper 18:29:33 <Skiper> :) 18:29:45 <obgr_seneca> Ok, do it yourself 18:30:00 <Skiper> I am a former contributor to the Mandriva Wiki in both French, English and occasionally Spanish, eventually improved some aspect of it at that time. I am fully bilingual. 18:30:23 <obgr_seneca> ok, shell we move on? 18:30:37 <lebarhon> I also worked for the ISO about telemanipulation and it's there I apreciated writting documentation 18:30:47 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: s/Shell/Shall :-) 18:31:06 <obgr_seneca> JohnR: I'll never learn :/ 18:31:10 <trishf42> 8-) 18:31:15 <JohnR> hehe 18:31:26 <trishf42> change the name from docteam to Proofreaders Anonymous 18:31:46 <obgr_seneca> I'm just a poor German guy doing his best in a foreign language :/ 18:31:56 <JohnR> oe even unanimous? 18:32:21 <obgr_seneca> ok 18:32:29 <obgr_seneca> #topic docteam responsibilities 18:32:48 <obgr_seneca> So what does the council think docteam should be about? 18:32:59 <obgr_seneca> There are actually two things 18:33:29 <obgr_seneca> First there is the wiki (the final one replacing the temporary one, we have now) 18:34:02 <obgr_seneca> Second, there is the official doc we'd like to include into the distro 18:34:08 <obgr_seneca> Any comments on that? 18:34:11 <Skiper> I do. 18:35:00 <lebarhon> will it be a multilingual wiki ? 18:35:08 <andre999> yes 18:35:15 <obgr_seneca> yes, it will be 18:35:27 <obgr_seneca> So shell we continue with the wiki? 18:35:27 <andre999> that was one of the criteria for choosing the wiki 18:35:43 <JohnR> Skiper: your comment? 18:35:44 <Skiper> We need to optimise the way we organize our documentation to avoid having to maintain both the wiki and the "official one", which would make two platforms I believe. 18:35:52 <Skiper> My own opinion. 18:36:30 <Skiper> Mandriva had two docs. This was perhaps not a good idea. Yet, we do need a good quality "official" one to include. 18:36:36 <JohnR> Skiper: I'll have some input regarding official?doc later 18:36:43 <Skiper> OK. 18:36:44 <obgr_seneca> yes later 18:36:54 <obgr_seneca> let's talk about the wiki first 18:36:58 <trishf42> Skiper: agree. This also has the side effect of making it easier for users to find stuff (important from the marcom point of view). 18:37:11 <obgr_seneca> #topic wiki 18:37:38 <obgr_seneca> The mediawiki is practically ready, we just need to hammer out some organisatorial stuff 18:38:29 <obgr_seneca> we had some brainstorming about its structure in council yesterday 18:38:41 <obgr_seneca> You can find our ideas here: http://piratepad.net/bLrdVM9pGm 18:39:25 <obgr_seneca> Mainly we want to have some kind of portal page leading to at the moment seven sections 18:40:14 <obgr_seneca> Now, the doc team will have several responsibilities - as we saw it yesterday 18:40:57 <lebarhon> your link says Loading... and nothing more 18:41:11 <obgr_seneca> First: docteam will be responsible for the end user docs and together with dev teams for the current version stuff 18:41:24 <obgr_seneca> lebarhon: must be a problem with piratepad... 18:41:25 <Skiper> Question 18:41:33 <obgr_seneca> anybody else having problems with it? 18:41:39 <Skiper> (not me) 18:41:41 <obgr_seneca> Skiper: yes? 18:41:49 <trishf42> I'm seeing it okay 18:41:51 <andre999> I have the page 18:42:04 <JohnR> nope - but I'm 12 hours ahead of most :-) 18:42:12 <andre999> :) 18:42:15 <obgr_seneca> lebarhon: try to push the reload button in your browser 18:42:30 <Skiper> by end-user doc, can we still include some technical manipulations that may require a certain level (such as using Draklive for custom LiveCDs)? 18:42:39 <lebarhon> no change 18:42:39 <Skiper> This is an example. 18:42:50 <obgr_seneca> of course 18:43:33 <Skiper> OK. Then I guess it should be explained in a way that aims towards precisely to end users then. Understood. :) 18:43:50 <obgr_seneca> lebarhon: try this one: http://piratenpad.de/mageia-doc 18:43:57 <obgr_seneca> I coiped the contents 18:45:08 <obgr_seneca> Skiper: we just wanted to do a divison between the documentation for the user (no matter how technically advanced) and the documentation of the teams about their own work 18:45:21 <Skiper> OK. 18:45:22 <obgr_seneca> That brings me to the next part 18:45:27 <andre999> that's a good idea 18:45:48 <lebarhon> same problem with the second link :( 18:45:52 <obgr_seneca> Mageia oldish is meant as an archive of the Mageia current version stuff, just for the older versions 18:46:00 <andre999> we could also restrict access to team-oriented documentation 18:46:05 <obgr_seneca> lebarhon: give me your mail address 18:46:31 <andre999> lebarhon: try another browser ? 18:46:45 <lebarhon> lebarhon@free.fr 18:47:15 <lebarhon> I haven't anything else, but only IE 6 18:47:23 <obgr_seneca> lebarhon: it isn't that nicely structured. I hope you will understand it... 18:47:31 <obgr_seneca> IE 6, ouch 18:47:35 <Skiper> IE 6 ouch 18:47:43 <andre999> lebarhon: try using Mageia :) 18:47:44 * obgr_seneca is a web dev and hates older IE versions... 18:47:45 <lebarhon> it's a joke, Firefox 4 18:47:46 <Skiper> :D 18:47:56 <obgr_seneca> ah... 18:47:59 <andre999> :) 18:48:07 <trishf42> <wipes brow> 18:48:15 * obgr_seneca hates newer FF versions as well, but that's another topic :D 18:48:44 <obgr_seneca> Ok let's go on... 18:49:18 <obgr_seneca> Mageia next version is mainly proivided by dev team but it shall not be a purely technical thing 18:49:22 <obgr_seneca> we'll have to wotk it out... 18:49:40 <obgr_seneca> Mageia news will be provided by marcomm, meaning trishf42 at the moment 18:49:44 <obgr_seneca> Hi Matteo 18:49:48 <trishf42> yep. 18:49:49 <pasmatt> obgr_seneca: hi 18:50:08 <Skiper> I do not understand clearly... 18:50:21 <obgr_seneca> Mageia contzributors corner shell be provided by the teams 18:50:32 <trishf42> marcom has a lot of crossover with docteam - we're about communicating, not just marketroid stuff, so we want to make sure that users can find out stuff easily 18:50:49 <obgr_seneca> doc team would just be some oversight cooperating with team reps to keep it clean 18:51:11 <Skiper> OK. 18:51:16 <obgr_seneca> any questions, comments, suggestions that far? 18:51:53 <lebarhon> what is marcomm ? 18:52:10 <Skiper> Marketing and communication team. 18:52:19 <andre999> mediawiki has a hidden section which we can use to organise the content without being visible 18:52:19 <lebarhon> Thanks 18:52:53 <andre999> this can be really useful for developing our docs 18:54:03 <obgr_seneca> Now, the first thing that shall happen when the new wiki goes online is the teams moving their contents into the contributors corner 18:54:20 <obgr_seneca> and artwork team will try and provide a layout 18:54:35 <obgr_seneca> you are of course invited to help hammer that one out 18:54:54 <Skiper> How would the information be organized? 18:55:02 <Skiper> Will each team have it's own category? 18:55:08 <obgr_seneca> artwork meeting is tomorrow at 17:00 UTC 18:55:33 <obgr_seneca> Skiper: yes, we thought about a tree like structure for the contributors corner at least 18:56:00 <Skiper> Ok. 18:56:54 <obgr_seneca> actually I don't have a clear idea about the "end users doc" section, that will be the decision of this team 18:57:24 <obgr_seneca> ok, anything else about wiki organization? 18:57:56 <obgr_seneca> I'd suggest we discuss more complicated points on the mailing list, though... 18:58:07 <Skiper> Fine. 18:58:29 <lebarhon> we have to think about that 18:58:40 <andre999> about packager's pages -- I think packagers and developers would be better title 18:58:56 <andre999> since the 2 are closely related 18:58:56 <obgr_seneca> of course, I have the unfair advantage of having had time to discuss it in council 18:59:23 <obgr_seneca> andre999: yes, we can merge them 18:59:27 <andre999> we can take advantage of that 18:59:41 <JohnR> andre999: Page Titles can be sorted out later I think 18:59:54 <andre999> I was thinking of content 19:00:05 <JohnR> same 19:00:08 <Skiper> Hmm 19:00:17 <obgr_seneca> Ok, but the main structure is ok with you? 19:00:18 <Skiper> But all packagers aren't developers. 19:00:38 <JohnR> structure is good by me 19:00:42 <obgr_seneca> ok 19:00:47 <Skiper> Main structure seems fine to me. 19:00:54 <andre999> main structure = good 19:01:08 <obgr_seneca> shall we move on then? 19:01:17 <andre999> ok 19:01:18 <obgr_seneca> JohnR: I am able to learn :) 19:01:26 <JohnR> hehe 19:01:31 <andre999> :) 19:02:24 <obgr_seneca> #topic official doc 19:02:36 <obgr_seneca> JohnR: I understand you ahve some ideas about that? 19:02:45 <JohnR> yup. 19:03:15 <obgr_seneca> ok, go ahead, I'll be back shortly, have to leave for a few minues 19:03:35 <obgr_seneca> Please do wait for me bfore you end the meeting :D 19:04:24 <JohnR> Ok, Due to copyright issues we cannotuse current MDV official docs ... BUT.. Neodoc has a copy of the docs from before the copyright was closed, These docs are stored on our server 19:05:15 <JohnR> http://demo.calenco.com/workspaces/Mageia is the URL but we haven't set up credentials yet :-(( 19:06:01 <JohnR> These docs are written in XML and modularised and are in about 17 different languagres 19:06:44 <JohnR> sorry, I'm a slow keyboarder 19:06:46 <wildman> hello there 19:07:02 <obgr_seneca> back 19:07:10 <obgr_seneca> hi wildman 19:07:36 <JohnR> I should tell you that wildman is also a member of the Neodoc team, he can help us understand the setup when we get there 19:07:46 <obgr_seneca> Ah, ok 19:08:15 <obgr_seneca> Can we do the explanation of that setup on the ml? 19:08:32 <JohnR> yes, I think that might be best 19:09:04 <obgr_seneca> I know, wobo wanted to go visit camil about using neodoc's setup some time go but since he isn't well... 19:09:20 <JohnR> Currently I don't know if there's a way to connect between the Calenco system and mediawiki 19:09:50 <obgr_seneca> JohnR: we will figure that out, we can pull the sysadmins into that 19:09:57 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: The calenco setup IS available right now. as a base to get started 19:10:05 <obgr_seneca> ok 19:10:42 <obgr_seneca> So, as skiper has said before, we should try and keep the official doc and the wiki doc in sync somehow 19:11:01 <JohnR> so, in essense we have a very good base for officail docs 19:11:23 <Skiper> I had an idea, but it might not stick due to the amount of translation and the fact Neodoc still owns it. 19:11:29 <obgr_seneca> as the wiki doc will be open to the users to edit (after all it is a wiki), we have to find a way of refining that and keeping it well ordered 19:11:55 <JohnR> Skiper: these docs are not repeat not owned by neodoc 19:12:13 <Skiper> Oh, fine then. 19:12:23 <andre999> couldn't we restrict access to mediawiki according to the group of contributor 19:12:28 <Skiper> I imagined the following idea. 19:12:41 <andre999> that would help maintain some order 19:13:15 <obgr_seneca> andre999: I wouldn't want to close anything down unneccessarily 19:13:27 <Skiper> The official doc we have could be merged into a specific category of the wiki. They could still easily evolve. But at a certain time, these pages could be freezed, check the info in it, and then export and parse them into the OS. 19:13:44 <obgr_seneca> and I'm sure the council agrees with me on this 19:13:47 <andre999> the idea is - packagers/developers can change packager grp, etc 19:13:47 <Skiper> Then unfreeze. Semi-protection can also be used. 19:13:49 <JohnR> andre999: true, but offical docs do need to be stand alone so they can be released with distro 19:14:04 <obgr_seneca> Skiper: if that's technically possible, it would be a way... 19:14:21 <andre999> JohnR: agreed 19:14:41 <obgr_seneca> andre999: the contributor's corner will be closed somehow, but not the end users section ( at least I think so ) 19:15:00 <Skiper> The difficulty might be parsing the exported files from MediaWiki in HTML. I do not know the possibilities on the MediaWiki side. 19:15:03 <andre999> obgr_seneca: agreed 19:15:04 <JohnR> Skiper: andre999 you will find to you frustration that that dev changes near release are very difficult to keep a hold of :-)))) 19:15:37 <andre999> true true 19:15:41 <obgr_seneca> JohnR: dev changes near release? those happen? :D 19:15:44 <JohnR> Skiper: that parsing isn't so very difficult - xml is great for those tasks 19:15:50 <andre999> :) 19:15:52 <Skiper> JohnR: Not that much. When the cauldron is freezed, including features, it is the good moment to check the doc. 19:15:57 <JohnR> obgr_seneca: nah! never! 19:16:29 <obgr_seneca> I can remember the mails to i18n: oh we just changed all the strings, please translate again :/ 19:16:44 <andre999> right :) 19:16:46 <Skiper> Uh, well that's the developer's responsability then. 19:16:49 <JohnR> Skiper: My experience is rather different :-) 19:16:55 <obgr_seneca> :D 19:16:58 <obgr_seneca> Ok 19:16:59 <Skiper> If something is freezed, then it should be freezed. 19:17:07 <obgr_seneca> It should be... 19:17:11 <Skiper> If rules aren't followed, it makes coordination very difficult. 19:17:15 <andre999> developers (almost) never want to document ... 19:17:22 <JohnR> Skiper: just don't expect that ... :-) 19:17:46 <Skiper> I know. Anyway they know adding last moment features can break stuff so that's not a reason for me. :) 19:17:49 <andre999> we're here to try to bring order to chaos 19:17:55 <obgr_seneca> Ok, any more frustration with the devs arround? 19:18:01 <obgr_seneca> Hi ennael 19:18:07 <Skiper> Hello ennael 19:18:09 <ennael> hi there 19:18:14 <andre999> hi :) 19:18:27 <JohnR> ennael: |0? 19:18:38 <ennael> ? 19:18:39 <wildman> ennael: bonsoir :) 19:18:39 <JohnR> opps \0/ 19:18:43 <ennael> :) 19:18:56 <wildman> you know this old dude with his broken keyboard... please forgive him :) 19:18:57 <ennael> sorry to disturb maybe meeting still in progress 19:19:05 <obgr_seneca> ennael: yes 19:19:07 <ennael> wildman: :) 19:19:15 <ennael> ok I shut up :) 19:19:43 <wildman> sorry for a bit OT question, your domain is mageia.com, right? 19:19:49 <JohnR> ennael: Did Camille discuss access to the neodoc repo for official docs with you? 19:20:12 <JohnR> wildman: yes 19:20:14 <wildman> so doc@mageia.com would be a nice and easy to remember user name for you guys to access the content on our servers 19:20:21 <JohnR> wildman: yes 19:20:25 <wildman> OK 19:20:32 <obgr_seneca> mageia.org 19:21:30 * JohnR is getting wildman to setup access to the Calenco URL I gave you above 19:21:40 <wildman> ouch, whip JohnR ;) 19:21:45 * wildman redoin... 19:21:49 * JohnR hides 19:21:51 <andre999> doc@mageia.org 19:22:08 <wildman> too late, I cannot delete users ;-) 19:22:11 <wildman> I'll add 'em both, bah 19:22:25 <obgr_seneca> ok 19:22:25 * JohnR hides again 19:22:31 <obgr_seneca> ok, are there any more fundamental thoughts about the official doc? 19:23:18 <JohnR> Once wildman has set the credentials up, I'd like you all to go look at what's there and then report back to ml - ok? 19:23:23 <andre999> I think we should use the hidden side of mediawiki pages to refine structure 19:23:41 <obgr_seneca> andre999: I'd rather use the ml 19:23:49 <JohnR> agreed 19:23:53 * obgr_seneca doesn't like hidden discussions 19:23:57 <JohnR> agreed 19:24:19 <andre999> ml ok for discussion, but tends to get lost with time 19:24:34 <andre999> whatever 19:24:37 <obgr_seneca> and since we don't want to repeat Mdv's mistakes, let's keep everything as openend as possible 19:24:51 <JohnR> andre999: It's just as easily lost in wiki too :-) 19:25:07 <andre999> my idea - eg 19:25:10 <Skiper> obgr_seneca: yep. 19:25:14 <andre999> main packager page 19:25:36 <andre999> on hidden side, develop tree for packager/dev pages 19:25:41 <JohnR> andre999: that wiki detail, I thought we were discussing official docs? 19:25:49 <andre999> all packagers can access hidden page 19:26:00 <andre999> right -- sorry 19:26:14 <obgr_seneca> I'd rellay like to discuss those points on the ml 19:26:16 <andre999> ok 19:26:21 <obgr_seneca> but with a time limit 19:26:26 <andre999> ok 19:26:31 <wildman> ok, I've added 2 users: doc@mageia.org (password: docmageia) and doc-admin@mageia.org (password: docadmin). the doc user is a regular one: he can use stuff there, but he cannot create publications and do a few other things. while the admin user has unrestricted access to the workspace. Can you please try to connect to http://demo.calenco.com/workspaces/Mageia again with these credentials? thanks. 19:26:45 <obgr_seneca> I promised to the council, we can setup the wiki beginnign of next week :D 19:27:16 <Skiper> Works for me. 19:27:25 <andre999> ok :) 19:27:39 <obgr_seneca> for me too 19:28:09 <obgr_seneca> but since there is a public log of this meeting, it's perhaps best to change those passwords? 19:28:11 <Skiper> hohoooo.... looks veeery outdated. 19:28:32 <wildman> yes, of course, I'll leave that to you, you can do it at any time, by clicking on the button with the user name at the top right 19:28:35 <JohnR> Skiper: yes it is - 2009 - it's a base to start with 19:28:47 <obgr_seneca> you can send them to me to obgr_seneca@mageia.org and I will see all people get them? 19:28:50 <wildman> just be nice with the rest of you when you change the user's preferences. 19:28:58 <Skiper> In the manual folder, I read... Mandrakelinux 10.1... 19:29:03 <wildman> (for example, UI language :)) 19:29:24 <obgr_seneca> Doesn't anybody speak German :P 19:29:35 <andre999> sorry :( 19:29:45 <obgr_seneca> ok, shall we move on? 19:30:19 <wildman> obgr_seneca: so, do I email you a reminder with the above credentials? 19:30:33 <obgr_seneca> wildman: please do 19:30:39 <wildman> sure 19:30:51 <obgr_seneca> #topic other 19:31:06 <obgr_seneca> So, to tell you some things 19:32:07 <obgr_seneca> I will act as the provisional team leader (unless anyone doesn't want me to) until someone steps forward to take the job 19:32:46 <obgr_seneca> But I have to tell you, that I already have a lot of things put on my shoulders and I can't really take that job indefinitely 19:33:09 <obgr_seneca> So in some time, we have to find someone taking the lead 19:33:39 <pasmatt> ok 19:34:07 <obgr_seneca> To get you a clearer picture of what was discussed in council, see 19:34:15 <obgr_seneca> https://ml.mageia.org/wwsympa-wrapper.fcgi/arc/council/2011-09/msg00027.html 19:34:29 <obgr_seneca> and 19:34:33 <obgr_seneca> http://meetbot.mageia.org/mageia-meeting/2011/mageia-meeting.2011-09-19-19.04.html 19:35:01 <obgr_seneca> You will also find the logs of this meeting at 19:35:03 <obgr_seneca> http://meetbot.mageia.org/ 19:35:09 <obgr_seneca> once this meeting is closed 19:35:11 <obgr_seneca> ok? 19:35:19 <obgr_seneca> comments on all of this? 19:35:31 <pasmatt> no comments, it's fine to me 19:35:40 <Skiper> Fine thank you. 19:35:53 <JohnR> good by me 19:35:55 <wildman> obgr_seneca: email gone... and kids arrived, I gotta leave, sorry. obgr_seneca email me if you have questions 19:36:13 <andre999> good 19:36:18 <wildman> bye people, nice to meet you! 19:36:26 <obgr_seneca> wildman: thanks, see you 19:36:32 <JohnR> cya wildman 19:36:41 <andre999> bye 19:36:46 <Skiper> bye 19:37:00 <obgr_seneca> ok, anything else to discuss just now? 19:39:51 <obgr_seneca> ok, shall we end the meeting now? 19:40:06 <obgr_seneca> And continue discussions on the ml over the next days? 19:40:18 <andre999> ok - good idea 19:40:30 <pasmatt> ok 19:40:37 <JohnR> agree 19:40:43 <Skiper> Yep. Eventually start the points that have been delayed here in the ML. 19:40:50 <obgr_seneca> #endmeeting