14:07:45 <rda> #startmeeting 14:07:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Wed Jan 5 14:07:45 2011 UTC. The chair is rda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:07:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:08:07 * misc is here in a zombie form 14:08:18 <rda> #chair rda misc 14:08:18 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: misc rda 14:08:22 <rda> ok, fetching my notes 14:09:13 <rda> #topic progress review since last time 14:09:36 <rda> first, transifex. any status? 14:09:48 <misc> it is deployed 14:10:05 <rda> working, used, all that? or what's next for it? 14:10:09 <misc> but there is no integration with svn, nor anything to translate, nor structured feedback from i18n 14:10:30 <dmorgan> misc: we need to add the other part ? or is it done ? 14:10:37 <rda> #info transifex has been deployed; not linked to svn yet, nothing to translate, waiting for feedback from i18n 14:10:46 <rda> dmorgan: the other part? 14:10:53 <obgr_seneca> doesnt transifex 1.0 use it's command line tools to integrated with vcs? 14:11:00 <misc> it us 14:11:01 <dmorgan> rda: iirc transifex is in 2 parts now 14:11:03 <misc> it use 14:11:24 <misc> but Jehane and goom said they would look at this part 14:11:28 <rda> dmorgan: oh ok 14:11:29 <dmorgan> misc: the command line need to be packaged/added ? 14:11:36 <dmorgan> misc: ah ok nice 14:11:36 <misc> dmorgan: it was already packaged 14:11:55 <misc> but the fact that there was no plan of what to do is just #fail 14:11:55 <rda> ok 14:12:16 <rda> who leads on this? 14:12:23 <misc> i am not sure that the i18n requested us to us transfiex 14:12:38 <dmorgan> misc: they did at the begining 14:12:40 <misc> so no one know how to integrate it, or the need of the translator 14:12:41 <obgr_seneca> I'm quite sure, we will use transifex 14:12:44 <misc> dmorgan: define "they" 14:12:53 <dmorgan> misc: some ppl, i don't remember the names 14:13:00 <misc> well, yeah, that's a problem 14:13:06 <dmorgan> misc: when all installed we just need to tell them 14:13:06 <misc> because most people do not know it 14:13:16 <misc> dmorgan: we already told them 14:13:19 <dmorgan> misc: and ? 14:13:28 <misc> dmorgan: most of them didn't know what it was 14:13:32 <rda> #action review with i18n, get/define a lead to coordinate/close the transifex setup 14:13:36 <obgr_seneca> but tx is by far better then using a sinple svn workflow as in mdv 14:13:39 <rda> #undo 14:13:39 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x8615a0c> 14:14:07 <misc> and next time we install a soft, we need to have clear use case, and someone to manage it 14:14:11 <rda> #action review with i18n, get/define a lead to coordinate/close transifex setup (misc, wobo) 14:14:23 <rda> ok 14:14:26 <rda> identity/catdap status? 14:14:46 <misc> should be deployed in production soon, as said during last meeting ( founders ) 14:15:05 <misc> didn't found the time to do it, but a single cp to live should be enough, and then announce it 14:15:10 <rda> #info catdap/identity will be soon updated in production 14:15:12 <misc> ( and go on the sympa announce ) 14:15:18 <rda> ok 14:15:28 <rda> forum status? ashledombos_ 14:15:42 <misc> we do not have the server, mlo didn't contact ( at least not me ) 14:15:59 <rda> #info still no progress on forum setup (still waiting for the server from mlo) 14:16:09 <rda> bugzilla status? 14:16:34 <dmorgan> rda: for bugzilla i am looking on the templates to add the rpm field 14:17:01 <rda> dmorgan: what else is on the road before prod deployment apart from this? 14:17:04 <dmorgan> rda: we still need to define the products to use 14:17:19 <rda> dmorgan: anything more? 14:17:35 <dmorgan> rda: for now this is all, after we will need to add the integration to maintainer 14:17:43 <rda> ok, not blocking then 14:18:02 <rda> dmorgan: the products, that is, what you proposed on the wiki? 14:18:08 <dmorgan> rda: yes 14:18:24 <dmorgan> rda: Mageia ( with componoments ) Websites, ... 14:18:37 <rda> dmorgan: I guess time has been enough for people to provide their feedback, so post a follow-up with a draft proposal and if no objection, we do it 14:18:39 <dmorgan> rda: you see on mdv or fedora bugzilla when you wanna create a new bugreport 14:18:43 <rda> dmorgan: what types of components? 14:18:54 <rda> dmorgan: yes, I know, the point here is to focus on the actual list 14:18:58 <dmorgan> rda: for mageia, cauldron now 14:19:01 <stormi> current you mean ? 14:19:03 <dmorgan> and 1.0 when it will be available 14:19:52 <rda> dmorgan: ok, so let's do it with two products for now: Mageia (cauldron component) and Websites (www, blog, wiki, identity, epoll components) ? for instance 14:19:58 <rda> we can add/rename later 14:20:02 <dmorgan> rda: seems OK for me 14:20:33 <rda> dmorgan: could you please post then this (or after your proposal) on the ml and we apply it by the end of this week so there's only the template stuff bloacking 14:20:33 <misc> can we rename later ? 14:20:45 <rda> dmorgan: about the template, do you need help, and what kind of help? 14:21:13 <rda> #info bugzilla setup is pending; needs a template change (rpm field) and agreed list of products/components 14:21:31 <dmorgan> rda: i will mail today to tell if i need help to make this quicker 14:21:41 <rda> #action dmorgan to post a followup draft proposal to -dev list for products/components, to use/apply for first setup 14:21:51 <rda> dmorgan: don't hesitate :) 14:22:07 <rda> #action dmorgan update the template to manage the rpm field in bugzilla 14:22:30 <rda> #info maintainers db integration will be needed (ajax) later in connection with this rpm field 14:22:40 <rda> ok, anything else about the bugzilla ? 14:23:11 <dmorgan> for now i think this is all 14:23:18 <rda> as for the wiki, status someone? 14:23:37 <rda> I guess not 14:23:37 <rda> #info still no progress on wiki setup 14:24:02 <misc> well, wasn't ennael working on the package ? 14:24:07 <misc> and who is in charge of the wiki ? 14:24:09 <obgr_seneca> rda what is needed for the wiki? 14:24:25 <rda> obgr_seneca: the setup of it 14:24:42 <rda> #action rda to summarize the wiki status, steps and work (to redispatch after) 14:24:45 <obgr_seneca> i did have a look into it but that was some time ago 14:25:00 <obgr_seneca> i can try again, have more time now 14:27:21 <obgr_seneca> there were two or three more people wanting to work on the wiki, does anybody remember? 14:27:31 <misc> yes, the log are here for that 14:28:05 <rda> obgr_seneca: yes 14:28:12 <obgr_seneca> I'll look them up and try and contact them 14:28:17 <rda> but the thing is to make all those people to coordinate 14:28:24 <rda> leu has a back pain currently 14:28:33 <rda> obgr_seneca: would be great, yes 14:28:34 <rda> #undo 14:28:34 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x848398c> 14:28:52 <rda> #action obgr_seneca to contact candidates for the wiki work and coordinate with them 14:28:59 <obgr_seneca> ok 14:29:36 <rda> as for the website, I've made some progress; migrated current website contents, built the global nav, but still has to commit this somewhere (git preferred) and build the staging website before prod 14:29:46 <rda> misc: do we have git reps or not yet? 14:29:57 <misc> rda: we only offer svn for the moment 14:30:13 <misc> we can setup git, but it will only be marginally better than git-svn 14:30:25 <misc> ( in fact, it would likely have less integration, so I prefer to avoid ) 14:30:33 <rda> well, just one indirection less 14:30:37 <rda> misc: which to avoid? 14:30:49 <misc> rda: setting a custom hand made git repository 14:30:55 <kosmas> what about gitorious? 14:30:59 <rda> ha yes, it's not what I'd ask :) 14:31:17 <rda> kosmas: that's a candidate, but it needs to be setup 14:31:34 <rda> misc: ok, let's go for the svn for now then; I'll post sysadm for this 14:31:48 <misc> just look at the installation document of gitorious to see how painful it can be 14:32:00 <kosmas> rda: I've setup gitorious for the maint-db 14:32:00 <rda> #action rda to post new website/nav to svn repositories and to prepare staging servers 14:32:12 <misc> s/servers/website/ 14:32:17 <rda> misc: :-p yes 14:32:44 <rda> kosmas: if it's manageable, maybe see with sysadm team then 14:33:03 <rda> #action kosmas to review gitorious setup feasability with sysadm team 14:33:06 <misc> kosmas: you have setup gitorious, or you have used gitorious.org ? 14:33:37 <misc> ( because using gitorious.org is easy, but this just totally bypass our ldap for obvious reason ) 14:34:16 <kosmas> misc: what do you mean setup? I probably mean used gitorious to host a project, but I guess you mean something else? 14:34:22 <rda> #undo 14:34:22 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x84d0f8c> 14:34:41 <rda> kosmas: yes, we meant using gitorious source code to host our own, not using gitorious.org service 14:34:46 <misc> kosmas: yeah, I mean installing gitorious on mageia server 14:35:20 <kosmas> rda, misc: ok sorry... I can have a look if you want me to, though 14:35:35 <misc> i already had a look, but you can have one if you want 14:35:51 <kosmas> ok 14:36:01 <misc> kosmas: how much time do you think it will take ? ( and what would be a deliverable ? ) 14:36:09 <rda> #action check gitorious install/setup feasability (kosmas) 14:36:47 <kosmas> misc: what are the requirements? install the source code and then try to integrate with ldap? 14:37:43 <rda> yes 14:37:59 <misc> kosmas: sysadm team use puppet, so a patch against the svn is the best 14:38:08 <misc> we also do have rpm in mandriva 14:38:31 <misc> so no need to provides so unmaintable hack like source code untarred and so on 14:38:59 <kosmas> ok. I can have a look at the rpm and what is needed and report back? 14:39:29 <misc> sure, and so, back to the first question, how much time do you expect this to take ? 14:40:14 <kosmas> A couple of days to see what is possible? 14:40:56 <misc> ok 14:41:16 <rda> #topic maintainers db 14:41:20 <rda> kosmas: status? :) 14:41:41 <kosmas> Setup git repository in gitorius http://gitorious.org/mageia-maintainers-database 14:41:55 <rda> #link http://gitorious.org/mageia-maintainers-database 14:42:01 <obgr_seneca> why not using mageia svn? 14:42:05 <kosmas> Setup up the redmine for the project http://mageia-app-db.tuxette.fr/projects/mageia-maint-db 14:42:20 <rda> #link http://mageia-app-db.tuxette.fr/projects/mageia-maint-db 14:42:42 <misc> obgr_seneca: maybe because like me to become angry seeing I work for nothing 14:42:50 <rda> obgr_seneca: using what's at hand first; the important part is that the master moves to mageia 14:42:55 <rda> misc: why take it this way? 14:43:23 <misc> rda: well, that's quite annoying to setup lots of stuff, and see people not use it 14:43:30 <kosmas> obgr_seneca: I remembered talk about gitorious, and I personally prefer git, and I believe there was no requirement to use svn 14:43:46 <misc> rda: at least, if we were asked to do it and didn't answer ok 14:44:00 <misc> but no one asked anything regarding hosting, no one idsucssed it , nothing 14:44:03 <obgr_seneca> just thought it would be good to use mageia servers for mageia apps 14:44:08 <rda> misc: I understand that, but people do use it and it will be further used as well 14:44:29 <misc> rda: that's just one more communication fail... 14:44:35 <rda> misc: that doesn't prevent people from trying, making a first draft/setup on their side, then moving things around 14:45:06 <kosmas> misc: I think that rda is right and things can change and moved about 14:45:08 <rda> misc: not my opinion 14:45:26 <rda> anyway, back to topic 14:45:41 <rda> kosmas: is it working or... what's the status of it? 14:46:20 <kosmas> so, these two things setup and initial commit. not working yet, but it wouldn't take long. Is there any plan for hosting it somewhere? 14:46:57 <rda> kosmas: that's step two, but yes, we still have to discuss of that 14:47:28 <rda> kosmas: could you update the wiki page about it, especially with requirements for the setup? 14:47:42 <rda> (or in the redmine instance, but then provide a link to it from the wiki page) 14:47:52 <misc> hosting of ? 14:47:54 <stormi> misc: anytime there's hosting on mageia servers I move mageia-app-db there 14:47:57 <rda> #info only been setup, needs work still 14:47:59 <rda> misc: maintainers db 14:48:15 <stormi> (git hosting) 14:48:53 <kosmas> ok. it's still in development but will need a staging environment. Should I host it on my server until setup exists for mageia servers? 14:49:03 <rda> kosmas: first, yes 14:49:12 <rda> kosmas: but for the setup, we need you to provide the requrements 14:49:32 <rda> #action kosmas to stage it on his side, provide hosting requirements 14:49:35 <misc> sure, do not ask at all to sysadm the opinion on hosting, we will happyly host server written in 15 languages and 3 framesworks :/ 14:49:45 <misc> ( another #fail ) 14:49:48 <rda> misc: maintainers db was proposed to be taken by someone on the list in mid-december; kosmas proposed to have a look at it and did; 14:49:55 <misc> rda: yeah, on sysadm ? 14:49:57 <rda> misc: it's been discussed in several mails through december on webteam 14:50:06 <misc> good so sysadm were not asked 14:50:18 <rda> misc: or may have provided some insight at the time 14:50:26 <misc> so we are optional in such discussion and then you wonder why I am angry :/ 14:50:45 <rda> misc: I think to need to step back and stop getting angry for every time things are not made by the book 14:51:26 <kosmas> misc: Some people are willing to help with the skills they have 14:51:28 <misc> rda: if that was 1 time, that would be ok, but I provided several communication failure 14:51:45 <rda> misc: and if you could focus on what does not fail instead of the contrary? 14:51:49 <rda> misc: I'll post sysadm for an update about this precisely and something else 14:51:53 <rda> ok, next topic 14:52:02 <rda> #topic calendaring solution 14:52:15 <rda> it's been suggested on -discuss about a calendaring solution for the project 14:52:37 <rda> I've posted a few solutions in the list for this meeting, along the lines of the discussion 14:53:01 <rda> who would like to take on this? (list requirements, with a kiss requirement; check solutions; propose; implement) 14:53:06 <obgr_seneca> haven't been able to read the list till now, was afk 14:53:30 <obgr_seneca> I could take on the calendar thing asuming it's nothing in perl 14:54:04 <rda> obgr_seneca: so far, it looks like there are very decent PHP/Python-based solutions 14:54:19 <rda> but things is to make sure it all comes to something that matches expectations 14:54:42 <obgr_seneca> php/python is ok 14:54:45 <rda> obgr_seneca: so you take on this one? 14:54:49 <obgr_seneca> yes 14:54:56 <rda> great 14:55:18 <rda> #action obgr_seneca take on the calendaring solution work, check requirements from the list, review the few solutions available 14:55:33 <rda> obgr_seneca: could you have this done for next week? 14:55:53 <obgr_seneca> yes 14:56:36 <rda> thanks! 14:56:52 <rda> #topic team organisation (leaders, reps) and FOSDEM 14:57:07 <rda> FOSDEM is taking place on Feb. 4/5/6 14:57:11 <rda> who is going to attend there? 14:57:13 <rda> (me) 14:57:27 <obgr_seneca> me 14:57:31 <stormi> me, probably 14:59:54 <rda> ok 15:00:11 <rda> would be great to discuss the team organisation by then (and over there) 15:00:25 <rda> and have candidates for representative/leader/deputy leader. 15:00:36 <rda> and setup a mentoring process 15:01:01 <rda> and get a grasp on how we articulate the voting rights in the team (larger than just the webteam, but a local discussion can help too) 15:02:01 <rda> any view/opinion about this? 15:02:52 <obgr_seneca> the question is: who is really in the web team? 15:03:30 <stormi> I think we can count those who took tasks :) 15:03:36 <stormi> + those who will 15:03:43 <rda> non-helping answer: people actively contributing/working on web apps; that have been recognized by their peers (mentored in) 15:04:27 <rda> so before the mentoring process is up and working, that counts only people who took a hold on something 15:04:39 <misc> what about starting by a first member, like rda, and let him them mentor other to bootstrap everything 15:05:03 <misc> ( by mentor, it can be quick for people, just recognize people in fact ) 15:05:07 <rda> yep 15:05:12 <rda> that's an option 15:05:13 <obgr_seneca> +1 15:05:25 <misc> so the first peer is rda, and he then decide what other peers exist and so the webteam is created 15:05:40 <rda> *evil grin* 15:06:38 <rda> well, that would be an obvious first list to draw (from my POV). If that's ok for everyone, I can post this on the list later. 15:06:45 <obgr_seneca> misc: sure you haven't created some kind of monster now? 15:07:09 <rda> beat me if I'm too hideous 15:07:16 <stormi> ok 15:09:01 <rda> #action rda to post a list of first peers in the team 15:09:17 <rda> st else? or next point? 15:09:37 <stormi> mageia-app-db 0.1 should be released soon 15:09:49 <stormi> I'll post to the -discuss list I think 15:10:01 <misc> sophie 2.0 was released quietly by nanar 15:10:58 <rda> #info mageia-app-db 0.1 to be released soon 15:11:10 <rda> #info sophie 2.0 released quietly lately 15:11:25 <rda> #topic roadmap/wishlist 15:11:31 * misc missed catdap merg but maybe this should not be added to the log 15:12:03 <rda> now, on this new year and after about three months; do you have wishes, ideas for the web team roadmap? 15:12:10 <rda> (nothing formative at this point, it's consultative) 15:12:32 <rda> misc: I won't tell 15:12:43 <misc> sure, it will not go out of the internet 15:13:23 <stormi> well, "as soon as possible" is the more precise I can get for forum, wiki, bugzilla etc. :) 15:13:47 <stormi> difficult to establish a roadmap without knowing how much work there is to be done 15:13:56 <misc> stormi: technically, it should be "as soon someone do the work" 15:14:18 <misc> and project planning is indeed something that would requires a dedicated volunteer 15:14:41 <misc> ( and that should be the role of someone whose I forget the title ) 15:15:50 <obgr_seneca> the problem is not only being a dedicated volunteer but also having the time 15:16:41 <misc> depending on the size of the team, it can be done on part time 15:17:50 <obgr_seneca> i think most of us, being in several teams and living a real life will find it difficult doing this full time :D 15:18:33 <obgr_seneca> I'm just glad, I'm only wobo's substitute in i18n team and letting him do the work 15:18:41 <fj> I missed the begin of the meeting : has anything been told about bugzilla ? 15:19:10 <rda> ok, so need to have at least one person dedicating on the planning/coordination within the team (best for leader or deputy leader, actually) 15:19:33 <rda> fj: yes, will be in the logs; or do you have something specific to state about it? 15:19:47 <misc> doing coordination is not especially hard, even I can do it, and god know how much I am messy 15:20:28 <fj> rda: at least have an RPM field 15:20:30 <rda> not hard, but requires some focus, and to focus on the coordination part (rather than going back and forth from coordination to dev/anything else and back) 15:20:36 <rda> fj: that's planned :) 15:21:06 <fj> rda: ok 15:21:21 <obgr_seneca> i would volunteer to do part of it but I would be more happy if someone would step out of the mist, doing it 15:22:04 <rda> obgr_seneca: you're already with a role in the i18n team, so maybe better not to take too much on. but up to you. 15:22:11 <obgr_seneca> yes 15:22:25 <obgr_seneca> like i said, i would be more happy if someone else does it 15:22:28 <rda> we can think about this and decide later (next week), try, see at fosdem. 15:22:29 <rda> :) 15:22:30 <rda> ok 15:23:04 <obgr_seneca> and I do take on too much from time to time 15:23:05 <rda> #info need for coordination/planning roles within team, for each project (to track, help keep track/focus on tasks) 15:23:28 <rda> anything else? 15:25:06 <rda> echo 15:25:38 <misc> nope 15:25:50 <misc> maybe indeed a better procedure for meeting to manage timeout 15:26:03 <rda> yes. not sure how. 15:26:12 <rda> ok, closing the log 15:26:15 <rda> #endmeeting