14:02:40 <rda> #startmeeting
14:02:40 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Wed Nov 17 14:02:40 2010 UTC.  The chair is rda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:02:40 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:03:07 <rda> #chair damsweb rda
14:03:08 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: damsweb rda
14:03:36 <rda> so, thank you everyone for attending this meeting and for joining the Mageia Web team
14:04:47 <rda> today's topics are going to be: 1. team setup, 2. a quick status update of current platform works, 3. users identity web app work to do, 4. mageia wiki setup work, 5. checking if/how/when to have a regular meeting
14:04:58 <rda> #topic Web team setup
14:05:47 <rda> as you maay have seen on http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=web there are about 32 people registered to the team, and we are beginning to structure things (teamas and projects) a bit
14:06:53 <rda> as others, the web team needs to organize itself with at least 4 roles (we can detail later): point of contact, team leader, deputy team leader (team coordination and direction) and council representative
14:07:30 <rda> these roles are crucial for the team and people willing to propose for these are welcome
14:08:16 <rda> first one being perhaps the point of contact, kind of a secretary, to handle requests and dispatch newcomers
14:08:44 <rda> #info team roles needed: point of contact, team leader & deputy team leader, council representative
14:08:59 <rda> we can detail those roles later, but so you kno
14:09:02 <TMKCodes> Can do point of contact
14:09:02 <rda> +w
14:10:42 <rda> TMKCodes: so you can have a public email on the team web page and be regularly on the channel? (jsut to know)
14:10:53 <TMKCodes> Yes.
14:11:01 <rda> ok, great, so let's do it :)
14:11:20 <rda> #info TMKCodes is the team point of contact
14:11:44 <rda> TMKCodes: I'll let you update the web page in this regard then
14:11:50 <TMKCodes> Only things that can take me away from the tasks is my newly starting business and university, but i'm anyway almost 20/7 on irc.
14:12:29 <rda> TMKCodes: ok, excellent. just, let the team know when/if you are taken away so someone else can jump in as a backup or replacement
14:12:42 <rda> TMKCodes: thanks a lot :)
14:12:51 <TMKCodes> Will do.
14:14:03 <rda> #topic quick status update
14:14:20 <rda> cf. https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-webteam/2010-November/000012.html
14:15:23 <rda> others (misc, boklm) can complement just in case.
14:15:50 * misc is with boklm
14:16:06 <rda> the buildsystem is being built. an ldap directory is almost ready as well as a webapp isntance (next topic) to manage users accounts
14:16:34 <rda> blogs are ok afaik, forums are waiting for ldap and accounts webapp completion
14:17:30 <rda> main website (www) is not being reworked yet, as we are waiting for logo/colour scheme/info architecture/design work to be done before
14:18:13 <rda> current scm used is svn but a git setup + a forge is being thought of. no actual discussion yet, but this can be started at some time.
14:18:28 <rda> if you wish to follow more closely the infrastructure setup, you may join #mageia-sysadm
14:18:39 <misc> ( and the ml )
14:19:16 <misc> ( and for the moment, I do not see a git migration as being a priority, given the fact we can use git-svn )
14:19:46 <rda> right, being https://mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-sysadm
14:20:07 <rda> misc: it's not only about the distribution infra, but as well about webapps one.
14:20:17 <rda> but indeed, it's not in the top priorities at this time
14:20:48 <rda> #info infrastructure setup is managed by the sysadm team, see #mageia-sysadm or https://mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-sysadm
14:21:03 <rda> any question here?
14:21:14 <leu> (not for me)
14:21:19 <TMKCodes> Not really.
14:21:42 <obgr_seneca> not at the moment
14:21:43 <rda> misc: is there a team page for sysadm on the wiki?
14:23:08 <rda> ok, let's go forward
14:23:09 <misc> rda: nope, we only have this : http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=sysadmin
14:23:25 <misc> if someone want to redact one, he will wwelcome :p
14:23:41 <rda> misc: ok, good already. I'll will redact it a bit to match other's teams structure (not removingg existing stuff, of course)
14:23:52 <ennael> misc: you mean you would like a slave ? :)
14:23:53 <rda> misc: thanks
14:24:01 <rda> #topic user accounts web app
14:24:30 <rda> so, we have a LDAP directory to manage all mageia user accounts online
14:25:19 <rda> this will be the single authentication service for (not exclusive): build system, bug tracker, wiki, forums, scms (svn, git, other), blogs maybe, and actually, any online app that is hosted/managed by mageia.org
14:25:38 <rda> to let users create and manage their accounts, we are going to have a dedicated web app
14:25:50 <rda> (that will enable as well admins to manage users' credentials)
14:26:17 <rda> this webapp is still in development, hosted on https://identity.mageia.org
14:26:34 <dmorgan> webapps which need love for the UI :)
14:26:42 <rda> it is based on Catalyst, a Perl framework, structured after a MVC scheme, like most recents web frameworks
14:26:48 <rda> and yes, it needs love and work
14:26:52 <misc> ( and it kickass )
14:26:59 <rda> :)
14:27:14 <rda> at this time, the most urgent tasks are: UI/style redesign (so, HTML/CSS work)
14:27:20 <TMKCodes> can't help on that. No knowledge of perl. :/
14:27:27 <misc> TMKCodes: no need for perl
14:27:29 <obgr_seneca> can help a bit on that
14:27:29 <rda> and some code work (user-triggered password reset, for instance)
14:27:40 <misc> there is a template system called tt2 ( template toolkit )
14:27:43 <obgr_seneca> meant the html/css
14:28:03 <TMKCodes> html/css i'm a sucker -> http://aleprok.crimasi.com for example xD
14:28:10 <rda> obgr_seneca: would be great
14:28:33 <obgr_seneca> I'm developing web apps at work but using php (and html/css)
14:28:42 <paierlep> can help there too ^^
14:28:49 <TMKCodes> I can do php
14:28:52 <rda> I set up a quick project page for identity (called CatDap as such): http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=web:identity
14:28:52 <leu> this app must be light ? (css /html only ?)
14:29:07 <misc> leu: no reall need for ajax, yes
14:29:09 <rda> #info CatDap (dev version hosted on https://identity.mageia.org/ ) will manage user accounts
14:29:17 <rda> #info CatDap needs some work
14:29:20 <obgr_seneca> What else do you want?
14:29:43 <leu> about ajax, what's library use ?
14:29:53 <rda> first goal is to make it work and pleasant to use, at a minimalist scale
14:29:54 <dmorgan> obgr_seneca: this is important as this will be seen by users at the first time
14:29:59 <rda> leu: there's no ajax at this time
14:30:26 <obgr_seneca> We could use sth like jquery to pimp up the design a bit
14:30:31 <dmorgan> we can look at kde identity page  the one they have is sexy and simple
14:30:32 <leu> have we got a workflow who describe the differents function of this app ?
14:30:32 <rda> so, obgr_seneca would work on html/css for that. does anyone else want to coordinate/peer work with him?
14:30:35 <obgr_seneca> and to have form evaluation
14:30:57 <rda> leu: very basic at this time, we can list the workflow existing on the web page
14:31:09 <rda> obgr_seneca: that's an option too, yes, but as a second step.
14:31:16 <obgr_seneca> ok
14:31:29 <rda> since identity ability to be used (and localized) is urgent so we can start using it officially
14:31:51 <rda> is there a Perl coder (or someone with enough Perl knowledge to dive into it anew)) around? :)
14:32:23 <rda> #action obgr_seneca will work on html/css for CatDap
14:32:44 <rda> #action rda will document app workflow on project page
14:32:52 <rda> #link http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=web:identity
14:33:22 <rda> #help Perl developer to help manage CatDap code and add missing features
14:33:35 <misc> localisation requires some work perl side
14:33:49 <misc> and there is some that cannot be translated easyly
14:33:57 <dmorgan> misc: catDap already handle this no ?
14:34:12 <misc> dmorgan: well, no all string are marked as translatable
14:34:15 <rda> #info CatDap needs more work on localisation
14:34:27 <rda> #info CatDap needs user-triggered password reset action implementation
14:34:52 <misc> I can give a hand for the perl part, but I do not have time to do all work
14:34:53 <dmorgan> misc: ah ok so we need to add them all, nice catch
14:35:08 <dmorgan> i would love but perl doesn't like me :þ
14:35:14 <misc> ( like explaining how to setup catalyst ( except on old ppc mac osx ))
14:35:16 <rda> misc: you're already pretty busy so, not to refrain, but that would be good to dispatch further :p
14:35:40 <rda> misc: :) I fixed this part, almost, somehow
14:36:07 <rda> ok, let's see later about this. anyone, feel free to ping us about this (helping on the code part of CatDap)
14:36:37 <dmorgan> rda: we could try to identify kind of "junior jobs"
14:36:51 <dmorgan> for people that doesn't know perl a lot but would like to help
14:36:58 <TMKCodes> True.
14:36:59 <dmorgan> some "easy tasks"
14:37:01 <rda> dmorgan: oh, yes, excellent. could you open such a page on the wiki? (waiting for the bug tracker to be used for that?)
14:37:07 <leu> that's a good idea
14:37:17 <dmorgan> rda: yes wiki is the good place for this
14:37:43 <misc> sure, so who is in charge of collecting and getting the list of job ?
14:37:44 <rda> #action open a "junior jobs" place to list easy tasks for people that want to help but are not sure how/where to start
14:37:55 <dmorgan> rda: on the identity page you already mentionned is good
14:38:28 <dmorgan> misc: i think the people that already works on identity can identify those tasks
14:38:28 <rda> dmorgan: yep, but we will probably inject this into the bug tracker then, to have a junior job category for each project/product?
14:38:41 <rda> dmorgan: yep, right
14:38:42 <TMKCodes> That would be nice.
14:38:43 <dmorgan> rda: after yes
14:38:47 <rda> ok, great
14:38:59 <misc> dmorgan: so basically, we come here to ask for help, and we go out with more work to do :) ?
14:39:02 <dmorgan> rda: we can use the whiteboard to add the juniorjob word
14:39:14 <dmorgan> misc: :)
14:39:16 <rda> dmorgan: yep. we'll see that.
14:39:39 <dmorgan> rda: but we need the bug tracker to be fully configured for this so this is an other story :þ
14:39:39 <rda> ok, other side note, about identity, but as well all other auth/session-based stuff on mageia.org
14:39:56 <misc> I think dmorgan should take care of the junior job list : 1) he know how to do, 2) he know what can be done by a begginer 3) he proposed the idea
14:39:57 <rda> we're going to need a valid certificate for https for the domain
14:40:07 <rda> :)
14:40:15 <rda> #action dmorgan takes care of the junior jobs list
14:40:19 <rda> here you are :-p
14:40:36 <dmorgan> rda: :)
14:40:56 <dmorgan> i should be more quiet in the future :)
14:41:01 <rda> so, about certificate, this may be more of a sysadm topic but... here's my point of view.
14:41:47 <rda> we should compare what would cost a wildcard ssl certificate on *.mageia.org against what would cost several (say, 15 for a middle term perspective) certificates
14:42:17 <dmorgan> rda: you can do this ?
14:42:26 * misc already checked prices of certificate
14:42:39 <rda> dmorgan: I always can, but the point is whether someone can take it :)
14:42:57 <rda> misc: could you post a summary of this on sysadm or webteam then?
14:42:57 <misc> usually, this is around 200 to 400$ for a wildcard one, except for rapidssl, who are at 50$ ( which is frankly weird )
14:43:13 <rda> misc: that's for one year ?
14:43:21 <misc> rda: yeah
14:43:30 <dmorgan> outch this is expensive :/
14:43:42 <misc> ( but rapidssl caused some trouble in 2008 with their CA )
14:43:42 <rda> well... not expensive. depends on the perspective.
14:43:52 <rda> misc: what kind of trouble?
14:44:01 <rda> is there a list of ranked providers?
14:44:22 <misc> rda: http://www.win.tue.nl/hashclash/rogue-ca/
14:44:48 <misc> rda: basically, their CA was insecure and some security researched were able to generate a certificate for any kind of domain
14:45:05 <rda> wow :-/ not good
14:45:07 <misc> but the whole SSL pki system is flawed
14:45:07 <obgr_seneca> ouch
14:45:40 <rda> misc: well... true. :-/
14:46:15 <rda> misc: could you post your research in a mail (or on a page on the wiki about this) and we build on that before deciding?
14:46:27 <rda> (if you have more info than that actually)
14:46:47 <misc> rda: yup, but it was just a 3h research, with 2h of looking a video about pki insecurity :)
14:46:55 <rda> :)
14:47:07 <kosmas> misc: have you looked at dreamhost for certificates at all?
14:47:32 <misc> kosmas: there is lots of provider of ssl certs, so no, i didn't tested all
14:47:32 <rda> #action list reasonably available ssl certificates providers/prices at hand on the wiki (misc and others)
14:48:01 <obgr_seneca> wouldn't cacert be a possibility?
14:48:06 <rda> #undo
14:48:06 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x85ea6cc>
14:48:24 <rda> #action list reasonably available ssl certificates providers/prices at hand on http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=web:certificates (misc and others)
14:48:24 <misc> obgr_seneca: it would ben but we need to see how it would work, and how many procedure this would requires for us
14:48:41 <obgr_seneca> ok
14:48:50 <misc> wobo spoke of it
14:48:57 <rda> obgr_seneca: would be, indeed, however, there's this issue with mozilla
14:49:03 <rda> misc: oh, yes, let me fetch his mail
14:49:41 <misc> #info cacert inclusion status http://wiki.cacert.org/InclusionStatus
14:49:51 <rda> yep.
14:50:00 <rda> that's the point actually
14:50:00 <obgr_seneca> we've been talking about a cacert one for mandrivauser.de some time ago
14:50:17 <misc> ( for some reason, no one mention IE in the missing browser )
14:50:20 <rda> misc: the inclusion status says nothing about Microsoft platforms?
14:51:13 <rda> ok, let's see this further later
14:51:45 <rda> so next topic
14:51:58 <rda> #topic mageia wiki setup
14:52:39 <rda> #link http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki_requirements
14:52:59 <rda> these have been the requirements listed
14:53:14 <rda> and among most likely candidates, is mediawiki
14:53:42 <TMKCodes> i vote for mediawiki
14:53:44 <rda> for the time being, we want to have a single wiki setup, generalist, which contents will be structured
14:54:03 <rda> we want to have a multi-language setup, somehow as we had at mandriva
14:54:24 <rda> so this is a specific mediawiki setup, that is documented already on mediawiki installation procedures but:
14:54:28 <rda> 1. there are several options
14:54:38 <rda> 2. it's not pre-scripted neither packaged
14:54:58 <dmorgan> rda: we can ask a packager to do it back
14:55:08 <rda> dmorgan: yes, after
14:55:08 <dmorgan> it was package until mdv 2010.0
14:55:21 <misc> why was it removed ?
14:55:35 <rda> so it needs some work to: decide which option (the one we used at mandriva looks good), script this option (the first install, the new-language-zone creation and the upgrade procedure)
14:55:38 <dmorgan> misc: i don't know, i just looked on svn and it is not here anymore
14:55:44 <dmorgan> misc: maybe no more maintained
14:55:47 <rda> dmorgan: you mean the vanilla mediawiki ?
14:56:06 <rda> who would like to take on this work (not alone, I can review/help/guide)?
14:56:27 <rda> requires: PHP, MySQL knowledge, some system knowledge (for clean/reproducable mediawiki install setup)
14:56:29 <misc> if people want to script, a puppet module would be the appreciated deliverable from sysadm :p
14:56:37 <rda> misc: :)
14:56:38 <dmorgan> rda: but what about the wiki ?   we will need a vanilla rpm or host our wiki code in git ?
14:56:53 <rda> dmorgan: we will host it in git/svn anyway.
14:57:04 * misc think dmorgan just volunteered to take the wiki
14:57:07 <rda> that doesn't prevent to have a source rpm (vanillaa), neither to try to package our own specific setup
14:57:31 <rda> misc: dmorgan: hey, let others join the fun! :-
14:57:38 <obgr_seneca> I can have a look at it but I have never done anything with mediawiki
14:57:41 <TMKCodes> i can help out with the wiki too, but haven't looked at mediawiki's code.
14:57:46 <obgr_seneca> neither can i promise to have the time
14:57:56 <dmorgan> misc: no no i know nothing about this :)
14:58:26 <rda> obgr_seneca: you already have some stuff with CatDap, so I would prefer to have people focus on one thing, at least at the very start. if you're ok with this :)
14:58:46 <rda> #info mediawiki is the platform we would like to use, but it needs some work to have a multi-language setup
14:59:02 <obgr_seneca> yes, as I said, I can't promise to have the time ;-)
14:59:09 <rda> #info which setup to use and how to script/package it are to explored
14:59:28 <rda> TMKCodes: obgr_seneca: ok, so let's coordinate us 3 about this?
14:59:35 <TMKCodes> rda, sure.-
14:59:39 <obgr_seneca> ok
14:59:42 <rda> #action obgr_seneca, TMKCodes and rda will look into this wiki thing
14:59:58 <rda> (others are welcome to join, we'll keep an open log on the existing temp wiki about this)
15:00:21 <rda> ok
15:00:24 <rda> good, 1 hour already
15:00:26 <rda> so
15:00:33 <rda> #topic next meeting (regular time?)
15:00:49 <rda> shall we have our next meeting next week, same time same place, or..?
15:00:55 <obgr_seneca> wednesday 14 utc is ok
15:01:01 <TMKCodes> ok for me too.
15:01:02 <Wayne_Sallee> It's probably the best time for most people.
15:01:13 <obgr_seneca> not great but times great for Europeans are horrible for Americans
15:01:15 <rda> I know some people are at work at this time and that can prevent them from joining
15:01:20 <kosmas> ok for me as well
15:01:33 <misc> maybe rotating meeting time could be a solution toplease many people
15:01:38 <eth> hey guys
15:01:40 <Wayne_Sallee> Personaly I think a lot can be done in the mailing list.
15:02:02 <rda> Wayne_Sallee: as well, but regular real time meeting are good too.
15:02:03 <Wayne_Sallee> So even when people can't attend the meeting, they can comunicate in the list.
15:02:07 <rda> yes
15:02:21 <TMKCodes> i join with misc's rotating meeting time :P
15:02:33 <Wayne_Sallee> rda: Yea, I understand that.
15:02:34 <rda> TMKCodes: misc: how would you rotate it?
15:03:05 <stormi> I favor per topic threads on the mailing list, + meetings only when really needed
15:03:08 <TMKCodes> Maybe next week 16 UTC then 18 UTC, etc.
15:03:42 <obgr_seneca> keep in mind that we have at least 9 hors of time difference on this list
15:04:01 <rda> stormi: a regular meeting caan be short and quick and is good to keep a small pace. or we'd need to have a weekly summary on the list as well. (or every 2 weeks, depends on the pace)
15:04:05 <misc> stormi: meeting give deadline and a sense of rhytm
15:04:14 <leu> 14 utc is good for me
15:04:33 <leu> generally I'm free the wenesday a 14 o'clock
15:04:34 <stormi> I see
15:04:38 <rda> ok, let's say 14 utc next week again and let think about it in the meantime
15:04:58 <obgr_seneca> shell we postpone the remaining topics to next week then?
15:05:12 <rda> about next week meeting, I'll post a reminder with a pre-list of topics
15:05:17 <rda> obgr_seneca: hmmm which remaining topics?
15:05:18 <rda> :)
15:05:27 <stormi> weekly summary on the list will be good too (I guess the meeting summary will be sent to the list)
15:05:34 <rda> stormi: yes
15:05:49 <obgr_seneca> Weren't there a few organizational things we didn't discuss?
15:06:21 <misc> ( rumor speak of automated meeting summary post for the next version of the bot, if someone want to investigate .. )
15:06:22 <rda> obgr_seneca: hmmm yes, I expected to speak about it as the first topic but... was not sure.
15:06:37 <rda> misc: nice :)
15:07:39 <obgr_seneca> rda: Do we have to have a team leader and so on now, can't we wait a bit till we know each other a bit?
15:07:58 <TMKCodes> I'm the secretary
15:08:05 <rda> obgr_seneca: yep, precisely. I believe it's better that the team builds around a few first projects
15:08:17 <rda> to get a taste of who could/would be tema leader, representative, and so on.
15:08:40 <rda> what do you think?;
15:08:44 <obgr_seneca> yep, then let's keep you as intermediary chief and let's get some work started
15:08:47 <stormi> I'm OK with that
15:09:08 * obgr_seneca will be back in a fwe minutes
15:09:10 <rda> ok. believe me, I'll be happy when someone will take the lead position :)
15:09:22 <rda> so... I believe we did it for this meeting.
15:09:28 <rda> almost kept it under one hour.
15:09:36 <rda> so, thank you a lot everyone for attending
15:09:56 <rda> feel free to post any further question/suggestion on the list and to propose your help!
15:10:14 <rda> #endmeeting