19:02:24 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:02:24 <Inigo_Montoya_> Meeting started Thu May 20 19:02:24 2021 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:24 <Inigo_Montoya_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:33 <wilcal> Welcome to  this weeks QA meeting
19:02:47 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
19:03:05 <wilcal> Anyone new here today?
19:04:12 <wilcal> Nope
19:04:18 <wilcal> So really today is
19:04:19 <wilcal> #topic Mageia 7 to 8 using and testing
19:04:39 <wilcal> A very important Kernel update this week. Any problems with that?
19:05:14 <wilcal> All my platforms updated without a problem
19:05:40 <wilcal> Hello dave
19:05:43 <DavidWHodgins> Sorry for being late
19:06:10 <wilcal> No problema
19:06:15 <wilcal> #chair DavidWHodgins
19:06:15 <Inigo_Montoya_> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins wilcal
19:06:38 <wilcal> Lets change the topic to:
19:06:39 <wilcal> #topic Mageia 7 & 8 - How's it going?
19:06:49 <DavidWHodgins> 11 days left before Mageia 7 end of support
19:06:52 <wilcal> I had no problems with the kernel updats
19:07:05 <tarazed> Nor me
19:07:12 <wilcal> Any issues on the bug list that would prevent that?
19:07:26 <DavidWHodgins> No regressions for me, on m7/m8, i586, x86_64, and aarch64
19:07:48 <DavidWHodgins> No issues to prevent the end of support.
19:08:16 <wilcal> Lots of bugs waiting for feedback. Ok if it all gets dropped?
19:08:26 <DavidWHodgins> Note that even with end of support, we will still accept updates needed for fixing upgrade to m8 issues
19:08:34 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Yes
19:08:53 <DavidWHodgins> That's normal at end of support that some updates get dropped.
19:09:00 <wilcal> It all just gradually fades away :-))
19:09:24 <wilcal> M7.1 was like an old comfortable pair of shoes
19:09:41 <tarazed> Yes, it wporked very well
19:09:51 <DavidWHodgins> In the past, in some cases for critical security updates, we also provide updates for the end of support releases
19:10:07 <wilcal> Really not much to talk about this week. Anything from you Dave?
19:10:14 <DavidWHodgins> Typically a critical security update shortly after end of support
19:12:01 <wilcal> I've really polished my way of testng a Mageia install. Everything is on externak USB drives ( SSD or USB stick )
19:12:53 <DavidWHodgins> On my new laptop, I have two nvme ssd sticks
19:13:15 <wikigazer> samsung?
19:13:17 <wilcal> USB 3.0 is pretty quick
19:13:26 <DavidWHodgins> A usb install without online runs in under 10 minutes
19:13:35 <wilcal> Yup
19:14:11 <benmc> tried a net install from a local .iso on one of the nvmes?
19:14:30 <wilcal> I have my test M8 install on a Samsung 870 EVO
19:14:40 <wikigazer> yes, it works ver well... used the INSTALL-ISO method
19:14:59 <benmc> just wondered the time it takes
19:15:02 <bri_an> hiya
19:15:05 <wikigazer> super fast
19:15:13 <wilcal> And I have one of those external USB chassis with two slots
19:15:32 <wilcal> faster then the internal SSD drive
19:15:53 <wikigazer> about 6 times faster for an internal PVIe card mounted NVMe
19:16:02 <wikigazer> tha  regular SSD on sata
19:16:02 <wilcal> I turn off the internal drive controller and do everything through the USB port
19:16:18 <DavidWHodgins> My two nvme sticks are both internal
19:16:30 <wikigazer> oopsie: s/PVIe/PCIe/
19:17:26 <wilcal> Lemme pose a question and see if we can think about this one
19:17:44 <wilcal> Ok given two identical lets say Dell laptops
19:18:00 <wilcal> Turn off the internal drive controller and drive
19:18:14 <wilcal> everything runs from the USB port.
19:18:21 <wikigazer> 3.1 ?
19:18:33 <wilcal> I think my Dell is 3.0
19:18:38 <wikigazer> k
19:18:55 <wilcal> So using one of the laptops do a Netinstall of M8 Plasma
19:19:13 <wilcal> everything instlls correctly and boots to a working desktop
19:19:37 <wikigazer> presumably it's UEFI?
19:19:42 <wilcal> turn off laptop $=#1 and move the SSD to laptop #2
19:19:50 <wilcal> Yes, and that's important
19:20:02 <wikigazer> right, that's the kicker
19:20:14 <DavidWHodgins> I had a starlabs MK III that died as soon as I tried to switch it to boot in csm mode. The only thing I kept from it was the nvme stick which I transfered into a new asus laptop
19:20:16 <wilcal> plug SSD into USB port on laptop two and turn it on
19:20:22 <wilcal> Boot failure
19:20:51 <DavidWHodgins> Likely nvme settings wrong or a firmware bug
19:20:52 <wikigazer> I think the UEFI system has some data about the drive stored in nvram in the computer
19:20:54 <wilcal> If it's not UEFI it will work
19:21:11 <wikigazer> prolly the UUID
19:21:53 <DavidWHodgins> Use "efibootmgr -v" to see the settings stored in the nvram
19:21:55 <bri_an> yeah that makes sense.  I suspect it's got a system ID sotred
19:22:01 <wikigazer> wild guess: if you cound modify the UUID so identical on both NVMe SSD it might work. Can modify using gparted.
19:22:46 <DavidWHodgins> It's settings would have to be changed to check the removable device first
19:22:55 <wilcal> It was so so easy to move non-uuid removable drives from system to system
19:23:08 <wilcal> even completely dissimilar systems
19:23:11 <wikigazer> yep, MBR had it's benefits...
19:23:45 <wilcal> On boot the OS would figure it all out and make the needed changes to get to a working deskop even with Plasma
19:23:50 <DavidWHodgins> On uefi systems I now recommend using refind instead of grub2. Makes figuring out which install is which and booting from removable drives much easier
19:24:25 <wikigazer> does refind affect portability between UEFI and MBT machines?
19:24:37 <wikigazer> oopsoe: s/MBT/MBR/
19:24:42 <wilcal> Takes me back to my days with DEC computers when each and every OS install was a custom job
19:25:07 <wikigazer> that's what happens when they try to secure the boot process
19:25:26 <wilcal> I haven't looked at it very close just noted that I could move drives between two identical systems I have here
19:25:29 <DavidWHodgins> uefi and bios firmware has nothing to do with whether the drive uses mbr or gpt partition tables except for some buggy uefi firmware that will only boot from gpt
19:25:32 <wikigazer> and we try to subvert that securityt... LOL
19:26:38 <DavidWHodgins> Making a bootable usb stick that will boot on either uefi or bios is difficult. I recommend using one of our live iso images with persistence
19:26:51 <wilcal> So if you've got to build OS on a dozen identical machine you can't just clone one drive 12 times you have to do a seperate install for each and every one?
19:27:23 <wikigazer> actually, I tried to use an NVMe with an MBR partition table in a legacy MBR system. It would not work. when I switched to GPT partition table on the MVMe it dis work. So have combinarion of MBR deives and GPT drives in the one system.
19:28:01 <DavidWHodgins> wikigazer: That's buggy uefi firmware if it will not boot from a mbr partitioned drive
19:28:03 <wilcal> BTW Vbox has evolved such that vdi files can be moved freely and without problems from machine to machine
19:28:27 <wilcal> Thanks all for confirming this
19:29:07 <wikigazer> persistence is a great idea and I use it a lot but it has a drawback: all the updates are deltas from the original ReadOnly copy (live DVD). So what happens is that disk space gets eaten up.
19:29:25 <wilcal> Anyway any thing on the bugs list that needs discussion
19:29:29 <wikigazer> with the deltas
19:29:44 <wilcal> We should probably get Thunderbird tested on M7.1
19:30:11 <wilcal> Oh ya
19:30:11 <bri_an> speaking of that, we are 11 days from EOL on m7
19:30:17 <wilcal> Yes
19:30:19 <DavidWHodgins> I'll test tb on m7 after the meeting
19:30:20 <wikigazer> DavidWHodgins, it's a legacy MBT system... does not have UEFI
19:30:29 <wikigazer> oo[psie: s/MBT/MBR/
19:30:56 <wilcal> If you do a search on a Vbox client for kernel-desktop-x you'll find dozens of old updates on the HD
19:31:18 <wilcal> I deleted all but the last 3 and freed up Gigbytes of HD space
19:31:34 <wilcal> That's the HD space eater
19:31:51 <DavidWHodgins> wikigazer: And it won't boot from mbr? That's the first I've heard of a bios system that won't boot from mbr. Are you sure it isn't uefi in csm mode?
19:31:57 <wikigazer> not using virtualbox, using vmware
19:32:24 <wilcal> VMware advertising on National TV and confusing millions and millions of people as to what it is
19:33:14 <wilcal> "AWS" sponsered the last couple of SuperBowls again confusing viewers
19:33:16 <wikigazer> DavidWHodgins, I may not cave communicated well: it is a legacy MBR system. It does not have UEFI
19:33:28 <DavidWHodgins> Anyway, let's keep this moving or we'll be here all day.
19:33:38 <wilcal> We're pretty much done
19:33:45 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Freenode ownership etc.
19:33:51 <wilcal> #topic Anything else?
19:33:55 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Freenode ownership etc.
19:34:09 <wilcal> Freenode?
19:34:32 <DavidWHodgins> As announced in many places one person now controls freenode and most staff have resigned
19:34:40 <wikigazer> bye bye freenode, say hello to my libera friend... ;-)
19:34:41 <wilcal> Oh my
19:35:07 <wilcal> That's a big security risk
19:35:13 <wikigazer> irc.libera.chat port 6667
19:35:17 <DavidWHodgins> The board is reviewing options though at this point we are waiting to see what impact, if any it has on us
19:36:02 <wikigazer> freenode has a new owner
19:36:13 <DavidWHodgins> Many options are being considered. My preference is for our sysadmins to setup an irc server on Mageia hardware
19:36:26 <wikigazer> most of the longstanding freenode admins have moved away and created libera
19:36:41 <wikigazer> more details here: https://mniip.com/freenode.txt
19:37:10 <DavidWHodgins> Just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of the issue and that the Mageia board is reviewing it's choices.
19:37:26 <wilcal> Do you know if freenode is on a single platform, cloud or many platforms?
19:37:32 <wikigazer> the new freenode owner is not liked or respected. Considered unsuitable from what I hear.
19:38:20 <wilcal> A lot of organizations use freenode
19:38:22 <wikigazer> we have been trying to test out new mageia channels on libera but everyting seems to be blocked
19:38:23 <DavidWHodgins> Probably best for us not to take sides on this at this point
19:38:59 <DavidWHodgins> Please wait for the Mageia board to decide what if any actions Mageia will take
19:39:03 <wilcal> ML will be used for communcation if freenode dumps
19:39:13 <wilcal> will do thanks for brining this up
19:39:23 <wikigazer> sound a bit like when Mageia split from Mandriva in some ways
19:39:42 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else?
19:39:53 <wilcal> I don't have anything
19:40:08 <DavidWHodgins> I have nothing else here
19:40:11 <jeeebz> Hello
19:40:15 <wikigazer> DavidWHodgins, who can I contact about mageia channels on libera at Mageia?
19:40:23 <jeeebz> For libera
19:40:45 <DavidWHodgins> wikigazer: Wait for the Mageia board to decide it that's where we want to move to.
19:40:47 <wilcal> we are about to end the meeting do you have anything jeee?
19:41:06 <jeeebz> I already send a subscritipn process to recover access on the namespace mageia, protected by default by the staff, it is under the reference # 103
19:41:16 <wikigazer> yep
19:41:18 <wilcal> k
19:41:30 <wilcal> Countdown time?
19:41:37 <DavidWHodgins> jeeebz: Please wait for the board to decide what we are going to do.
19:41:45 <wilcal> T-5
19:41:48 <wikigazer> when might we know?
19:42:04 <wikigazer> what's the plan?
19:42:08 <jeeebz> DavidWHodgins: yes, just recovering the access has no incidence with the Board.
19:42:18 <DavidWHodgins> For now the board has chosen to wait and see what impact the changes have on us (if any).
19:42:35 <wilcal> T-4
19:42:43 <jeeebz> But on the board, who gave its point of view ? Only 3/4 on 12.
19:42:56 <wikigazer> but nevertheless, we should claim the mageia namespace on libera
19:43:10 <wikigazer> whatever the decision
19:43:10 <DavidWHodgins> jeeebz: This is a board decision as it's policy and impacts our constitution which states meetings are held on irc
19:43:23 <wilcal> T-3
19:43:38 <DavidWHodgins> We own the tradmark, so if that becomes an issue we'll deal with it.
19:43:39 <jeeebz> DavidWHodgins: yes, I'm Jean-Baptiste
19:43:58 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Yes.
19:44:01 <DavidWHodgins> :-
19:44:01 <wilcal> Anything else jeee?
19:44:03 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:44:10 <wilcal> T-2
19:44:15 <wilcal> Bye all
19:44:16 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here. Let's close the meeting
19:44:17 <jeeebz> wilcal: no. Please close ;)
19:44:19 <wilcal> thanks for being here
19:44:27 <wilcal> T-1
19:44:37 <wilcal> #endmeeting