19:02:24 <wilcal> #startmeeting 19:02:24 <Inigo_Montoya_> Meeting started Thu May 20 19:02:24 2021 UTC. The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:02:24 <Inigo_Montoya_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:02:33 <wilcal> Welcome to this weeks QA meeting 19:02:47 <wilcal> #topic Who's new? 19:03:05 <wilcal> Anyone new here today? 19:04:12 <wilcal> Nope 19:04:18 <wilcal> So really today is 19:04:19 <wilcal> #topic Mageia 7 to 8 using and testing 19:04:39 <wilcal> A very important Kernel update this week. Any problems with that? 19:05:14 <wilcal> All my platforms updated without a problem 19:05:40 <wilcal> Hello dave 19:05:43 <DavidWHodgins> Sorry for being late 19:06:10 <wilcal> No problema 19:06:15 <wilcal> #chair DavidWHodgins 19:06:15 <Inigo_Montoya_> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins wilcal 19:06:38 <wilcal> Lets change the topic to: 19:06:39 <wilcal> #topic Mageia 7 & 8 - How's it going? 19:06:49 <DavidWHodgins> 11 days left before Mageia 7 end of support 19:06:52 <wilcal> I had no problems with the kernel updats 19:07:05 <tarazed> Nor me 19:07:12 <wilcal> Any issues on the bug list that would prevent that? 19:07:26 <DavidWHodgins> No regressions for me, on m7/m8, i586, x86_64, and aarch64 19:07:48 <DavidWHodgins> No issues to prevent the end of support. 19:08:16 <wilcal> Lots of bugs waiting for feedback. Ok if it all gets dropped? 19:08:26 <DavidWHodgins> Note that even with end of support, we will still accept updates needed for fixing upgrade to m8 issues 19:08:34 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Yes 19:08:53 <DavidWHodgins> That's normal at end of support that some updates get dropped. 19:09:00 <wilcal> It all just gradually fades away :-)) 19:09:24 <wilcal> M7.1 was like an old comfortable pair of shoes 19:09:41 <tarazed> Yes, it wporked very well 19:09:51 <DavidWHodgins> In the past, in some cases for critical security updates, we also provide updates for the end of support releases 19:10:07 <wilcal> Really not much to talk about this week. Anything from you Dave? 19:10:14 <DavidWHodgins> Typically a critical security update shortly after end of support 19:12:01 <wilcal> I've really polished my way of testng a Mageia install. Everything is on externak USB drives ( SSD or USB stick ) 19:12:53 <DavidWHodgins> On my new laptop, I have two nvme ssd sticks 19:13:15 <wikigazer> samsung? 19:13:17 <wilcal> USB 3.0 is pretty quick 19:13:26 <DavidWHodgins> A usb install without online runs in under 10 minutes 19:13:35 <wilcal> Yup 19:14:11 <benmc> tried a net install from a local .iso on one of the nvmes? 19:14:30 <wilcal> I have my test M8 install on a Samsung 870 EVO 19:14:40 <wikigazer> yes, it works ver well... used the INSTALL-ISO method 19:14:59 <benmc> just wondered the time it takes 19:15:02 <bri_an> hiya 19:15:05 <wikigazer> super fast 19:15:13 <wilcal> And I have one of those external USB chassis with two slots 19:15:32 <wilcal> faster then the internal SSD drive 19:15:53 <wikigazer> about 6 times faster for an internal PVIe card mounted NVMe 19:16:02 <wikigazer> tha regular SSD on sata 19:16:02 <wilcal> I turn off the internal drive controller and do everything through the USB port 19:16:18 <DavidWHodgins> My two nvme sticks are both internal 19:16:30 <wikigazer> oopsie: s/PVIe/PCIe/ 19:17:26 <wilcal> Lemme pose a question and see if we can think about this one 19:17:44 <wilcal> Ok given two identical lets say Dell laptops 19:18:00 <wilcal> Turn off the internal drive controller and drive 19:18:14 <wilcal> everything runs from the USB port. 19:18:21 <wikigazer> 3.1 ? 19:18:33 <wilcal> I think my Dell is 3.0 19:18:38 <wikigazer> k 19:18:55 <wilcal> So using one of the laptops do a Netinstall of M8 Plasma 19:19:13 <wilcal> everything instlls correctly and boots to a working desktop 19:19:37 <wikigazer> presumably it's UEFI? 19:19:42 <wilcal> turn off laptop $=#1 and move the SSD to laptop #2 19:19:50 <wilcal> Yes, and that's important 19:20:02 <wikigazer> right, that's the kicker 19:20:14 <DavidWHodgins> I had a starlabs MK III that died as soon as I tried to switch it to boot in csm mode. The only thing I kept from it was the nvme stick which I transfered into a new asus laptop 19:20:16 <wilcal> plug SSD into USB port on laptop two and turn it on 19:20:22 <wilcal> Boot failure 19:20:51 <DavidWHodgins> Likely nvme settings wrong or a firmware bug 19:20:52 <wikigazer> I think the UEFI system has some data about the drive stored in nvram in the computer 19:20:54 <wilcal> If it's not UEFI it will work 19:21:11 <wikigazer> prolly the UUID 19:21:53 <DavidWHodgins> Use "efibootmgr -v" to see the settings stored in the nvram 19:21:55 <bri_an> yeah that makes sense. I suspect it's got a system ID sotred 19:22:01 <wikigazer> wild guess: if you cound modify the UUID so identical on both NVMe SSD it might work. Can modify using gparted. 19:22:46 <DavidWHodgins> It's settings would have to be changed to check the removable device first 19:22:55 <wilcal> It was so so easy to move non-uuid removable drives from system to system 19:23:08 <wilcal> even completely dissimilar systems 19:23:11 <wikigazer> yep, MBR had it's benefits... 19:23:45 <wilcal> On boot the OS would figure it all out and make the needed changes to get to a working deskop even with Plasma 19:23:50 <DavidWHodgins> On uefi systems I now recommend using refind instead of grub2. Makes figuring out which install is which and booting from removable drives much easier 19:24:25 <wikigazer> does refind affect portability between UEFI and MBT machines? 19:24:37 <wikigazer> oopsoe: s/MBT/MBR/ 19:24:42 <wilcal> Takes me back to my days with DEC computers when each and every OS install was a custom job 19:25:07 <wikigazer> that's what happens when they try to secure the boot process 19:25:26 <wilcal> I haven't looked at it very close just noted that I could move drives between two identical systems I have here 19:25:29 <DavidWHodgins> uefi and bios firmware has nothing to do with whether the drive uses mbr or gpt partition tables except for some buggy uefi firmware that will only boot from gpt 19:25:32 <wikigazer> and we try to subvert that securityt... LOL 19:26:38 <DavidWHodgins> Making a bootable usb stick that will boot on either uefi or bios is difficult. I recommend using one of our live iso images with persistence 19:26:51 <wilcal> So if you've got to build OS on a dozen identical machine you can't just clone one drive 12 times you have to do a seperate install for each and every one? 19:27:23 <wikigazer> actually, I tried to use an NVMe with an MBR partition table in a legacy MBR system. It would not work. when I switched to GPT partition table on the MVMe it dis work. So have combinarion of MBR deives and GPT drives in the one system. 19:28:01 <DavidWHodgins> wikigazer: That's buggy uefi firmware if it will not boot from a mbr partitioned drive 19:28:03 <wilcal> BTW Vbox has evolved such that vdi files can be moved freely and without problems from machine to machine 19:28:27 <wilcal> Thanks all for confirming this 19:29:07 <wikigazer> persistence is a great idea and I use it a lot but it has a drawback: all the updates are deltas from the original ReadOnly copy (live DVD). So what happens is that disk space gets eaten up. 19:29:25 <wilcal> Anyway any thing on the bugs list that needs discussion 19:29:29 <wikigazer> with the deltas 19:29:44 <wilcal> We should probably get Thunderbird tested on M7.1 19:30:11 <wilcal> Oh ya 19:30:11 <bri_an> speaking of that, we are 11 days from EOL on m7 19:30:17 <wilcal> Yes 19:30:19 <DavidWHodgins> I'll test tb on m7 after the meeting 19:30:20 <wikigazer> DavidWHodgins, it's a legacy MBT system... does not have UEFI 19:30:29 <wikigazer> oo[psie: s/MBT/MBR/ 19:30:56 <wilcal> If you do a search on a Vbox client for kernel-desktop-x you'll find dozens of old updates on the HD 19:31:18 <wilcal> I deleted all but the last 3 and freed up Gigbytes of HD space 19:31:34 <wilcal> That's the HD space eater 19:31:51 <DavidWHodgins> wikigazer: And it won't boot from mbr? That's the first I've heard of a bios system that won't boot from mbr. Are you sure it isn't uefi in csm mode? 19:31:57 <wikigazer> not using virtualbox, using vmware 19:32:24 <wilcal> VMware advertising on National TV and confusing millions and millions of people as to what it is 19:33:14 <wilcal> "AWS" sponsered the last couple of SuperBowls again confusing viewers 19:33:16 <wikigazer> DavidWHodgins, I may not cave communicated well: it is a legacy MBR system. It does not have UEFI 19:33:28 <DavidWHodgins> Anyway, let's keep this moving or we'll be here all day. 19:33:38 <wilcal> We're pretty much done 19:33:45 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Freenode ownership etc. 19:33:51 <wilcal> #topic Anything else? 19:33:55 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Freenode ownership etc. 19:34:09 <wilcal> Freenode? 19:34:32 <DavidWHodgins> As announced in many places one person now controls freenode and most staff have resigned 19:34:40 <wikigazer> bye bye freenode, say hello to my libera friend... ;-) 19:34:41 <wilcal> Oh my 19:35:07 <wilcal> That's a big security risk 19:35:13 <wikigazer> irc.libera.chat port 6667 19:35:17 <DavidWHodgins> The board is reviewing options though at this point we are waiting to see what impact, if any it has on us 19:36:02 <wikigazer> freenode has a new owner 19:36:13 <DavidWHodgins> Many options are being considered. My preference is for our sysadmins to setup an irc server on Mageia hardware 19:36:26 <wikigazer> most of the longstanding freenode admins have moved away and created libera 19:36:41 <wikigazer> more details here: https://mniip.com/freenode.txt 19:37:10 <DavidWHodgins> Just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of the issue and that the Mageia board is reviewing it's choices. 19:37:26 <wilcal> Do you know if freenode is on a single platform, cloud or many platforms? 19:37:32 <wikigazer> the new freenode owner is not liked or respected. Considered unsuitable from what I hear. 19:38:20 <wilcal> A lot of organizations use freenode 19:38:22 <wikigazer> we have been trying to test out new mageia channels on libera but everyting seems to be blocked 19:38:23 <DavidWHodgins> Probably best for us not to take sides on this at this point 19:38:59 <DavidWHodgins> Please wait for the Mageia board to decide what if any actions Mageia will take 19:39:03 <wilcal> ML will be used for communcation if freenode dumps 19:39:13 <wilcal> will do thanks for brining this up 19:39:23 <wikigazer> sound a bit like when Mageia split from Mandriva in some ways 19:39:42 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else? 19:39:53 <wilcal> I don't have anything 19:40:08 <DavidWHodgins> I have nothing else here 19:40:11 <jeeebz> Hello 19:40:15 <wikigazer> DavidWHodgins, who can I contact about mageia channels on libera at Mageia? 19:40:23 <jeeebz> For libera 19:40:45 <DavidWHodgins> wikigazer: Wait for the Mageia board to decide it that's where we want to move to. 19:40:47 <wilcal> we are about to end the meeting do you have anything jeee? 19:41:06 <jeeebz> I already send a subscritipn process to recover access on the namespace mageia, protected by default by the staff, it is under the reference # 103 19:41:16 <wikigazer> yep 19:41:18 <wilcal> k 19:41:30 <wilcal> Countdown time? 19:41:37 <DavidWHodgins> jeeebz: Please wait for the board to decide what we are going to do. 19:41:45 <wilcal> T-5 19:41:48 <wikigazer> when might we know? 19:42:04 <wikigazer> what's the plan? 19:42:08 <jeeebz> DavidWHodgins: yes, just recovering the access has no incidence with the Board. 19:42:18 <DavidWHodgins> For now the board has chosen to wait and see what impact the changes have on us (if any). 19:42:35 <wilcal> T-4 19:42:43 <jeeebz> But on the board, who gave its point of view ? Only 3/4 on 12. 19:42:56 <wikigazer> but nevertheless, we should claim the mageia namespace on libera 19:43:10 <wikigazer> whatever the decision 19:43:10 <DavidWHodgins> jeeebz: This is a board decision as it's policy and impacts our constitution which states meetings are held on irc 19:43:23 <wilcal> T-3 19:43:38 <DavidWHodgins> We own the tradmark, so if that becomes an issue we'll deal with it. 19:43:39 <jeeebz> DavidWHodgins: yes, I'm Jean-Baptiste 19:43:58 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Yes. 19:44:01 <DavidWHodgins> :- 19:44:01 <wilcal> Anything else jeee? 19:44:03 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 19:44:10 <wilcal> T-2 19:44:15 <wilcal> Bye all 19:44:16 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here. Let's close the meeting 19:44:17 <jeeebz> wilcal: no. Please close ;) 19:44:19 <wilcal> thanks for being here 19:44:27 <wilcal> T-1 19:44:37 <wilcal> #endmeeting