19:01:10 <DavidWHodgins> #startmeeting
19:01:10 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Jun 28 19:01:10 2018 UTC.  The chair is DavidWHodgins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:10 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:01:14 <DavidWHodgins> #chair wilcal
19:01:14 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins wilcal
19:01:21 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Who's new? - If you are then come and say hello
19:01:35 <wilcal> Hi tj
19:01:41 <tjandrews> Hi.
19:01:43 <DavidWHodgins> Looks like a small turnout again this week, so is should be a short meeting again.
19:02:04 <rindolf> tjandrews: hey
19:02:27 <DavidWHodgins> #topic bug 23202 and upgrading using mgaapplet
19:02:29 <[mbot> Bug: ['during upgrade  i586 Mga5 ( with kde4) to Mga6, task-obsoletes conflict occurs', 'NEW', 'Martin Whitaker'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23202
19:02:41 <tjandrews> We had a little over an inch of rain yesterday, so it's still to wet for outside work.
19:02:50 <wilcal> Is this holding up M6.1?
19:03:06 <DavidWHodgins> I haven't had time this week to test upgrades again, so I'm not sure if it's fixed or not. Has anyone?
19:03:19 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Yes
19:03:31 <wilcal> I've tinkered with a few. The kernel went through
19:03:33 <wilcal> rates
19:03:36 <wilcal> rats
19:04:36 <DavidWHodgins> #info Testing of upgrades from m5 to m6 using mgaapplet needs to resume.
19:05:01 <benmc> understand its waiting for the perl-URPM to be passsed, then the rmp changed from testing to updates
19:05:48 <tjandrews> My Internet service is too unreliable for that. It was out for two hours when I woke up this morning.
19:05:57 <benmc> so again a two step test
19:06:06 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. That's bug 23229 now
19:06:08 <[mbot> Bug: ['[candidate] perl-URPM & task-obsolete updates', 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23229
19:07:34 <DavidWHodgins> Comment added requesting a status update on that bug
19:08:13 <DavidWHodgins> #info mgapplet testing is still being held up by bug 23229
19:08:15 <[mbot> Bug: ['[candidate] perl-URPM & task-obsolete updates', 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23229
19:08:15 <benmc> sorrry, got 2 go - demands of a 2 year old. try to be back later
19:08:25 <DavidWHodgins> Ok benmc
19:09:32 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Testing updates - Any questions or problems, long list
19:09:57 <wilcal> which ones in there can be simple install ok tested
19:10:03 <brian__> will try to get to openjdk this week.
19:10:47 <DavidWHodgins> With so few of us participating this week, not much point going through the full list here. I'll just remind everyone that we need to stay on top of the testing of updates.
19:10:54 <wilcal> I'll get to phpmyadmin today or tomorrow
19:11:02 <tjandrews> I can do a 32-bit check of Firefox this evening.
19:12:10 <DavidWHodgins> bug 23231 does concern me
19:12:12 <[mbot> Bug: ['nextcloud bugfix update', 'ASSIGNED', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23231
19:13:21 <DavidWHodgins> I forget whether it was in a bug report or a mailing list, but the last update for nextcloud, the first we allowed as an update instead of a backport did break existing installs, with at least one complaint posted.
19:13:52 <wilcal> gracious
19:14:12 <tjandrews> Hello, Herman.
19:14:14 <DavidWHodgins> I think it was a mistake on my part to allow it through as an update. It violated the policy that updates shouldn't break existing running services
19:14:20 <hviaene> Hiall
19:14:30 <DavidWHodgins> Hi hviaene
19:14:39 <brian__> DavidWHodgins - whichever way you sish
19:14:43 <brian__> wish
19:14:53 <brian__> hi hviaene
19:15:23 <DavidWHodgins> Need to confirm if bug 23231 is just a bugfix, or if it will break existing installs.
19:15:25 <[mbot> Bug: ['nextcloud bugfix update', 'ASSIGNED', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23231
19:15:41 <brian__> yeah - it says 12 to 13 upgrade
19:16:41 <brian__> I suspect a good number may still be on 11
19:17:16 <DavidWHodgins> I've added a comment to the bug report
19:17:18 <brian__> categorize it and then I'll test if you wish
19:18:05 <DavidWHodgins> Please go ahead and test it to see if it requires intervention other then just installing the update to continue working
19:18:32 <brian__> sure - big risk will be users of 11 which will be impacted
19:18:39 <brian__> as they were going to 12
19:18:54 <brian__> the same as going to 12
19:19:45 <DavidWHodgins> If users currently running 11 will end up with a broken install, then we will go back to requiring it to be submitted as a backport
19:19:54 <brian__> I'll test 12 to 13 and if gets moved to backport, I think we'll be along in testingt
19:20:07 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. Thanks
19:20:15 <brian__> I can promise they will be broken
19:22:03 <DavidWHodgins> The question then becomes how to handle it. If 11 to 13 will break, but 12 to 13 is ok, is there a way that we can have it as an update for 12 users, but not for 11 users?
19:22:40 <DavidWHodgins> I doubt it though, as I read what I just wrote. :-)
19:22:47 <brian__> I'll try it, sometime the developers build that into the install
19:24:12 <DavidWHodgins> I'll review the wiki for nextcloud. Ideally, it can be altered so that installing it as an update can be done safely
19:24:48 <brian__> thx David
19:24:52 <DavidWHodgins> Any questions or comments on the other updates?
19:25:06 <wilcal> not from me
19:25:17 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Anything else?
19:25:25 <hviaene> Whenwill M5 stop??
19:25:46 <hviaene> updates I mean
19:25:48 <DavidWHodgins> When the upgrading using mgaapplet is working smoothly
19:25:58 <hviaene> Grrrrr
19:26:02 <wilcal> We have to stop asap on that. Too painful
19:26:10 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed
19:26:14 <wilcal> Please say something about our Troll. I'm not sure who's who on the mailing lists anymore.
19:26:52 <DavidWHodgins> #topic The troll
19:27:30 <DavidWHodgins> The troll calling himself Andrew, who preiously went by John513  has been a major annoyance
19:28:10 <brian__> I appreciated the blog report.  Good to publicize his/her behavior
19:28:32 <wilcal> i tend to be too trusting at times
19:28:32 <DavidWHodgins> All of the anonymizing servers we know of are banned from registering at identity.mageia.org, so he/she can not subscribe to our mailing lists
19:28:33 <hviaene> Oh, I was wondering if there was sometthing wrong with TJ?????
19:29:26 <DavidWHodgins> This doesn't stop the sending of msgs using the group aliases, or the sending via direct email to addresses harvested from our mailing lists
19:29:36 <wilcal> THERE IS NO MAGEIA MEETING HERE IN LAS VEGAS!!!!!!
19:29:49 <wilcal> I can't say that loud enough
19:29:50 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:29:55 <DavidWHodgins> I know
19:29:59 <brian__> oh bummer  ;-)  I planned to crash at your place
19:30:08 <tjandrews> Nothing wrong with me...
19:30:20 <wilcal> Everyone is always welcome here in my spare bedroom
19:30:23 <DavidWHodgins> Even responding to the troll in jest can easily be misconstrued
19:30:29 <wilcal> but calling a meeting here is nuts
19:30:30 <hviaene> Glad to her that
19:30:47 <hviaene> hear
19:30:49 <brian__> will note that
19:30:54 <brian__> troll
19:31:25 <wilcal> How can you identify if the message is coming from a troll?
19:31:53 <DavidWHodgins> As always, the way to deal with a troll like this is not to respond to him. Simply warn other cc recipients that it's a troll sending the message, unless you are sure the other recipients already know, in which case just ignore the troll
19:32:13 <DavidWHodgins> Look at the received headers in the msg
19:32:14 <tjandrews> For one thing, it'll be a private message, not from one of the mailing lists.
19:32:23 <wilcal> Ahhhh
19:32:44 <DavidWHodgins> It varies depending on what program you use to read messages.
19:33:15 <wilcal> Can I send him/her a private message from an anomious e-mail addy too?
19:33:31 <DavidWHodgins> With opera 12.16, the mailing list messages go into a seperate "folder", while the other messages go into my inbox. Makes it easy to tell, without even looking at the headers
19:33:49 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Yes
19:34:32 <brian__> wilcal:  building a spam engine designated for him/her
19:34:35 <brian__> ;-)
19:34:36 <hviaene> wilcal: don(t bother, unless you want tosend your tie launching a counteroffendive
19:34:43 <DavidWHodgins> The anon servers he's been using require registration, and allow msgs in both directions
19:34:45 <hviaene> offensive
19:35:06 <hviaene> spend yor time
19:35:09 <DavidWHodgins> But as those servers are using tor for all messages, there is no way to trace him/her
19:35:15 <hviaene> fingers!!!!!
19:35:44 <DavidWHodgins> Do not respond to trolls in any way. It just encourages them to try to get a reaction
19:35:57 <brian__> if they get no where, they'll eventually go somewhere else
19:35:58 <DavidWHodgins> #info Do not respond to trolls in any way. It just encourages them to try to get a reaction
19:36:24 <tjandrews> When he offered me a position on his "committee," I essentially told him to go jump in a lake, and then created a killfile especially for him in Thunderbird. No more problems.
19:36:31 <DavidWHodgins> That's the hope. Some will continue for years, as it doesn't cost them anything
19:37:22 <DavidWHodgins> It can be tempting to "play games" with the trolls, but in the long run that just does more damage
19:37:45 <DavidWHodgins> So just killfile them, or at least do not respond to them.
19:37:56 <wilcal> In Google mail I just blocked him and reported him as spam
19:38:25 <wilcal> it's something
19:38:40 <DavidWHodgins> For myself, I just do not respond to him. I haven't killfiled him, so I can see who else he is sending to, to warn them if needed.
19:38:41 <hviaene> Like trying to onvert Win adepts to Linux
19:38:47 <hviaene> Convert
19:39:37 <tjandrews> If I'm going to engae in a battle of wits, I need an opponent with some amunition or I'm just wasting my time.
19:39:40 <DavidWHodgins> Good analogy
19:40:02 <tjandrews> engage
19:40:08 <wilcal> Anyway thanks for all the help on that one David
19:40:11 <DavidWHodgins> He's a waste of time to engage with, in any way
19:40:33 <DavidWHodgins> Glad to help.
19:40:51 <DavidWHodgins> Trolls have existed for as long as the internet has existed
19:40:58 <brian__> yup
19:41:02 <wilcal> back to anything else and the countdown
19:41:14 <brian__> nothing here.  Limited bandwidth
19:41:14 <hviaene> There is one point now:: Some Win users have had it now with the lates Spring update
19:41:38 <wilcal> England's going to get beat
19:41:43 <brian__> Oh you mean wiping out the emachine  (My wife's)
19:42:10 <hviaene> Nothing here now
19:42:17 <DavidWHodgins> While I agree m$'s continuous breaking of windows installs will encourage more people to look a linux, that's not really a topic for the qa meeting. :-)
19:42:28 <brian__> LOL
19:42:29 <brian__> true
19:42:37 <hviaene> wilcal: you ean football??
19:42:37 <DavidWHodgins> Countdown time then
19:42:43 <DavidWHodgins> t - 5
19:42:48 <DavidWHodgins> 4
19:42:53 <DavidWHodgins> 3
19:42:55 <wilcal> bye all
19:42:56 <DavidWHodgins> 2
19:42:58 <DavidWHodgins> 1
19:43:04 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks for coming everyone
19:43:07 <hviaene> G' night all
19:43:11 <DavidWHodgins> #endmeeting