19:02:35 <lewyssmith> #startmeeting
19:02:35 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Apr 12 19:02:35 2018 UTC.  The chair is lewyssmith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:35 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:54 <lewyssmith> #topic Anyone new here? If so, please say so.
19:03:16 <benmc> good morning.
19:03:26 <lewyssmith> Hello Ben.
19:03:57 <tjandrews> Hi, Ben.
19:04:15 <benmc> hi. looks like no new here
19:04:24 <lewyssmith> Few people her today, see no new names.
19:04:39 <lewyssmith> I shall make up topics!
19:04:50 <tjandrews> Uh-oh...
19:04:54 <lewyssmith> #topic The stack updates
19:05:42 <benmc> no news is good news?
19:05:44 <lewyssmith> It looks to methat QT(-KF5-Plasma-KDE all look good. What do you think?
19:05:53 <tjandrews> I'm perfectly willing to OK the "Big Four" and validate.
19:06:18 <tjandrews> iF IT WOULD HELP, i'D DO IT AFTER THE MEETING.
19:06:29 <lewyssmith> What do we do about LXQt though?
19:06:38 <tjandrews> Sorry. Didn't mean to shout that.
19:06:53 <benmc> lxqt update is problematic. i think nicholas was going to have another look
19:07:29 <benmc> i understand that that the other 3 do not depend on it
19:07:40 <tjandrews> The others can be validated. They wouldn't be pushed until LxQT is OKed.
19:07:49 <lewyssmith> Th emain problems with LXQt are: it needs LIGHTDM; it needs PCMANFMQT to work, or substitute PCManFM.
19:08:34 <benmc> tarazed. hi
19:09:07 <tarazed_> Hi Ben and TJ
19:09:16 <tarazed_> and Lewys
19:09:22 <tjandrews> After Len's test, I'd say that the appstream bug can be validated, too.
19:09:28 <lewyssmith> There is also the question of whether the developers have more KDE pkg updates in view. A couple were added recently.
19:10:19 <tjandrews> Aren't there ALWAYS kde updates in view?
19:10:39 <lewyssmith> It would be good to validate the groups mentioned; and lean on LXQt or ask for the update to go out without it.
19:11:29 <lewyssmith> tjandrews, Please do validate the updates you cited. I think we all agree.
19:11:43 <tjandrews> Sounds like a plan.
19:12:02 <tarazed_> Hi Brian
19:12:16 <bria_n> HI All
19:12:27 <lewyssmith> Is it worth feedbacking the LXQt bug to get some -  feedback?!
19:13:57 <tjandrews> Dave has stated that the new lxqt, while far from perfect, is better than what we have now. I wouldn't know - never touch the stuff.
19:14:22 <lewyssmith> True *if* you run it from LightDM.
19:15:03 <benmc> sorry guys, got to go
19:15:26 <tjandrews> Thanks for coming, Ben.
19:15:29 <lewyssmith> Goodbye.
19:16:46 <lewyssmith> Decided: to validate everything eligible; to feedback LXQt. OK?
19:17:23 <lewyssmith> #Topic Other updates
19:18:16 <lewyssmith> I posted about a few sticky ones I cannot look at. A couple of backports are in hand.
19:18:52 <hviaene> Tomorrow I have time to dive in again
19:19:20 <tjandrews> tmb: I see another kernel in updates testing. Is it close to being ready for us?
19:19:31 <tarazed_> openconnect looks ready to go
19:20:05 <tjandrews> tarazed: OK, I'll validate that one, too.
19:20:49 <tmb> tjandrews, nope, but I'm respinning one based on 4.14.34 that will land for QA tests tonight/tomorrow
19:20:52 <lewyssmith> tarazed_, Len well done again.
19:21:16 <tjandrews> tmb: OK. I'll watch for it.
19:21:34 <lewyssmith> reminder: Python-paramiko (SSH2), libofx, samba are the main things left.
19:21:46 <tarazed_> wilcal will have something to look forward to
19:25:11 <lewyssmith> I am just validating openconnect. Fingers crossed.
19:25:28 <lewyssmith> Back! anything else to say here?
19:25:38 <tjandrews> I must say, once you install the Plasma etc. packages, the testing repos become MUCH more manageable.
19:25:59 <lewyssmith> So does the list of updates...
19:26:16 <hviaene> @ Lewys: got the message on openconnect.
19:27:06 <tarazed_> The remaining  packages are a bit on the tough side
19:27:33 <lewyssmith> hviaene, What messgae? About the Plsam update? I answered that; thiunk it not applicable.
19:28:05 <hviaene> @ Lewys: |validated_update
19:28:36 <hviaene> System is quick!!!
19:28:37 <lewyssmith> Done. Is that OK with you?
19:29:41 <hviaene> Yes, quite OK
19:29:51 <lewyssmith> #Topic Mageia uncertainties
19:30:35 <lewyssmith> I raise this because of the recent waves about Mageia, talking of takeover, inaction etc.
19:31:17 <tarazed_> ?? Have you a link?
19:32:00 <lewyssmith> Let me explain.
19:32:05 <lewyssmith> I think & hope our Troll Andrew has gone elsewhere, for starters.
19:33:16 <lewyssmith> The main thing was a legitimate post on the French Mageia forum, which asked a lot of questions about what it is doing - or not.
19:34:03 <hviaene> Written by someone we know???
19:34:36 <bria_n> oh sounds like a malicious takeover  :-(
19:34:43 <lewyssmith> I think so; a valid and reasoned post. I will try & find the reference.
19:34:52 <lewyssmith> It was well referenced. Things like: the Council (or is there something higher) almost never meets.
19:35:23 <lewyssmith> Di you know that Anne is no longer president? I did not.
19:35:57 <tmb> yeah, she is stepping down for personal reasons...
19:36:08 <tmb> but she wont leave mageia
19:36:41 <lewyssmith> And can someone please tell me what was the state of the M4-M5 upgrade mgaapplet affair? Does it owrk - or not? I was oof-line at the time.
19:36:43 <tmb> she suggested to stay on as treasurer and maybe packaging stuff sometimes
19:36:44 <Luigi12_work> technically another group could "take over" if they came in and did good work and got elected to most of the leadership positions, but our processes don't allow for a hostile takeover, this isn't a corporation
19:37:16 <lewyssmith> I agree with all you say.
19:37:20 <Luigi12_work> as for the applet, Dave hodgins asked that we leave it disabled until we push the Plasma update and can test mga5->mga6 upgrades again
19:38:06 <lewyssmith> Thanks. But we *must* make it work. Carrying 2 versions is heavy.
19:38:08 <Luigi12_work> so based on what you said earlier in the meeting, it sounds like we're getting closer to being able to enable it, maybe by the end of the month?
19:38:15 <Luigi12_work> nah it's not heavy
19:38:26 <Luigi12_work> we're only supporting a small subset of packages for 5 anymore
19:38:27 <lewyssmith> !
19:38:34 <Luigi12_work> and almost nobody is helping with security updates anyway
19:38:47 <Luigi12_work> even with only 6, things would be a lot heavier if people were actually fixing all of the issues
19:39:08 <lewyssmith> -2 That has always ben a problem for you.
19:39:14 <Luigi12_work> security bugs are being filed faster than they're being fixed, and they're piling up
19:39:38 <Luigi12_work> yeah but it's become more of a problem since I can't do packaging work from work anymore with this job, so I can't do most of the updates myself
19:39:53 <Luigi12_work> technically it was never my job to, but I did it anyway because someone had to
19:39:54 <lewyssmith> -2 We are forewarned.
19:40:19 <Luigi12_work> so it's yet another area that we're severely lacking in as of late
19:40:32 <Luigi12_work> the troll wasn't wrong about that unfortunately
19:41:14 <lewyssmith> Did 5->6 upgrade ever work reliably?
19:41:18 <Luigi12_work> I'm so behind on things, I'm not going to be able to come in and save the day like I did at the very end of 2017 and get us caught up
19:41:34 <Luigi12_work> lewyssmith: yes it worked pretty OK in my VM upgrade tests right before mga6 was released
19:41:44 <lewyssmith> We all appreciate & admire your effots, David.
19:42:03 <Luigi12_work> biggest problem was Plasma packages getting orphaned that shouldn't have been, so you'd lose some functionality when removing the orphans after the upgrade
19:42:13 <Luigi12_work> I haven't tested an upgrade since last summer though
19:42:35 <lewyssmith> Would it not be worse after the stack updates?
19:42:45 <lewyssmith> Welcome Shlomi.
19:42:47 <Luigi12_work> it should be better, since neoclust was going to work on fixing some of those issues
19:42:52 <Luigi12_work> but it just needs to be tested again
19:43:00 <rindolf> lewyssmith: hi
19:43:31 <Luigi12_work> I suppose if you have those qarepo.pl repositories, it might be possible to test mga5->mga6+qarepo upgrades to see how well it handles it now
19:43:46 <rindolf> lewyssmith: i forgot about the meeting today
19:43:53 <lewyssmith> Raise a new upgrade bug after releasing the stack updates?
19:44:45 <Luigi12_work> well it needs to be tested, I don't know if you need a bug report (unless something's found to be broken)
19:44:52 <Luigi12_work> tmb: we still need the memory limit on the BS increased for mga5/mga6 so we can build FF/TB updates
19:45:02 <Luigi12_work> it looks like pterjan only increased it for Cauldron
19:46:15 <lewyssmith> This upgrade is important for users a Mageia alike. We cannot advance without it.
19:46:33 <Luigi12_work> yeah
19:46:39 <tjandrews> Welcome back, Ben.
19:46:55 <Luigi12_work> the samba update can be OK'd for mga5, someone had asked on the bug
19:47:10 <Luigi12_work> for mga5, any basic testing is fine
19:47:23 <bria_n> yeah I was testing that earlier on 64bit mga5
19:47:29 <Benmc> hi
19:47:33 <bria_n> seems to be working, but just some painful config I have to do
19:47:36 <bria_n> ran out of time
19:47:40 <Luigi12_work> thanks for that
19:48:09 <bria_n> I'll try to finish tonight if possible
19:48:24 <bria_n> I guess tomorrow AM in EU
19:49:05 <lewyssmith> I will look in the morning. But what about those config fiddles?
19:49:20 <bria_n> that's normal
19:49:44 <lewyssmith> Good (not really, though).
19:50:51 <bria_n> gotta drop - I'll try to finish that tonight
19:50:56 <bria_n> bye all
19:51:07 <lewyssmith> The 3rd 'go' at Mageia was a private French Blog post, hostile; just opinion, though.
19:52:10 <lewyssmith> Mageia really needs to get its information out better, to inform & re-assure people.
19:52:30 <lewyssmith> The Blog is obvious; but forum posts as well?
19:52:45 <tjandrews> There are those who don't seem to realize we all do this in our spare time as volunteers.
19:53:03 <tarazed_> And we are thinly spread.
19:53:07 <lewyssmith> We need to say so; and solicit more, people harder.
19:54:04 <lewyssmith> That is not QA's job; but criticisms on this front are too valid. Do you remeber weekly or monthly Mandrake e-mails?
19:54:14 <tjandrews> It can be tough getting the non-technical to realize we have places for them, too.
19:55:21 <tmb> Luigi12_work, I'm not aware of any changes :/
19:55:29 <lewyssmith> Could we have a users' mailing list? *That* (like for Mandrake) would help a lot.
19:56:17 <Luigi12_work> tmb: there was a brief discussion about it between pterjan and tv on the dev ml
19:57:06 <lewyssmith> Anyhow, I have said enough on this. Will try & find the lonks (e-mail deleted...). Move on.
19:57:20 <lewyssmith> #Topic Anything else?
19:57:49 <tarazed_> Evening Stig
19:57:56 <lewyssmith> Hello STig. You are doing a great job.
19:58:05 <Luigi12_work> seconded
19:58:19 <tjandrews> I think Nicolas deserves a hearty "Thank you" for all his work on the Plasam updates.
19:58:38 <tjandrews> Plasam=Plasma.
19:58:50 <lewyssmith> I agree heartily, & posted the same sentiment. And the other packagers.
20:00:03 <lewyssmith> So nothing else?
20:00:24 <hviaene> Not from me
20:01:17 <kekePower> evening all :-)
20:01:48 <lewyssmith> All right, thanks everyone for coming. Goodbye for this week.
20:01:53 <lewyssmith> -5
20:01:57 <lewyssmith> -4
20:02:00 <lewyssmith> -3
20:02:06 <tarazed_> goodbye everybody
20:02:06 <lewyssmith> -2
20:02:10 <lewyssmith> -1
20:02:25 <lewyssmith> #endmeeting