19:01:46 <DavidWHodgins> #startmeeting
19:01:46 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Apr  5 19:01:46 2018 UTC.  The chair is DavidWHodgins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:46 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:01:47 <tjandrews> Bill, I just saw the email before I came here. You need to change the time on your form. It still says "20:00."
19:01:57 <DavidWHodgins> #chair wilcal tjandrews lewyssmith
19:01:57 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins lewyssmith tjandrews wilcal
19:02:13 <wilcal> Are we at 19:00 at Europe?
19:02:27 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Yes
19:02:37 <wilcal> Ok I'll change that, thanks
19:02:38 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Who's new? - If you are then come and say hello
19:03:01 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone here who hasn't been to a qa team irc meeting before?
19:03:16 <lewyssmith> What about our new 'friend' Andrew?!
19:03:30 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:03:55 <DavidWHodgins> The spammer hasn't shown up on irc yet
19:04:07 <lewyssmith> So far...
19:04:16 <tjandrews> That we know of...
19:04:16 <DavidWHodgins> If he does, I can kick and/or ban him
19:04:40 <benmc_> Looks like noone needs here
19:04:49 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * QA Election results
19:04:57 <kekePower> evening all
19:05:07 <wilcal> hello keke
19:05:11 <lewyssmith> Agreed to leave as-is, I thought.
19:05:18 <DavidWHodgins> As per the ml, me, wilcal (Bill Kenny), tjandrews (Thomas Andrews)
19:05:20 <benmc_> Yep
19:05:26 <kekePower> wilcal: :-)
19:05:34 <DavidWHodgins> Any questions or comments?
19:05:41 <kekePower> DavidWHodgins: Sounds good to me
19:05:52 <kekePower> you all seem to have a good grasp of these things
19:06:05 <tjandrews> When does my 10% pay raise kick in?
19:06:07 <lewyssmith> Leave well alone.
19:06:14 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: I've added your email address to my gmail whitelist. Msgs directly to me were going into the spam folder.
19:06:23 <kekePower> tjandrews: You'll get you $5000 reward soon enough
19:06:29 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:06:31 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins, gmail does that.
19:06:49 <DavidWHodgins> Shouldn't happen now that the address is in the whitelist
19:07:09 <DavidWHodgins> I only check the spam folder when I think of it, typically about once a month
19:07:17 <lewyssmith> Nor should that be necessary; I have the problem all round with gmail.
19:07:26 <tjandrews> Same here, only not so often.
19:07:43 <lewyssmith> Curious: I get no spam.
19:08:04 <kekePower> I used to have my own mail server, but it was too much work keeping all the spam at bay
19:08:09 <kekePower> that's why I like gmail
19:08:30 <DavidWHodgins> For the most part it's very good, but you do have to watch for false positives
19:08:45 <lewyssmith> I think if you use gmail or any Google service, you are saking for spam.
19:09:20 <kekePower> I don't think I've seen any real spam in years on gmail
19:09:25 <hviaene> You tried hotmail??
19:09:32 <DavidWHodgins> Actually, they are very good at filtering spam. They get so much of it there systems are well trained at spotting it.
19:09:41 <DavidWHodgins> Anyway, moving on ...
19:09:41 <lewyssmith> hviaene, Just as bad, I imagine.
19:09:42 <kekePower> but then again, I use yahoo when I register on sites I don't trust
19:09:44 <tarazed_> Just checked my spam folder - loads of messages from David Walser.
19:09:46 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Testing the Plasma/kf5/kde/qt Stack w/qarepo.pl continues
19:10:25 <lewyssmith> Everything looks good here, minor glitches apart.
19:10:34 <DavidWHodgins> I'm still in the process of making sure all the packages are listed in the right advisory before I add them to svn
19:10:43 <lewyssmith> The role od openssl needs clarifying.
19:10:53 <tjandrews> That's a job and a half.
19:11:13 <kekePower> tjandrews: I can take the half
19:11:16 <DavidWHodgins> It's a required package as it's needed to access any https site.
19:11:33 <lewyssmith> Is it in the list?
19:12:10 <wilcal> OK tis morning I built a brand new M6 x86_64 on a non-nvidia platform, updated that with qarepo, installed Vbox and all of that worked just fine
19:12:35 <DavidWHodgins> openssl is not currently in updates testing
19:12:51 <lewyssmith> Nobody has fallen foul of doing all the updates, I think.
19:13:16 <wilcal> I'm becoming very comfortable with qarepo.pl and the update list
19:13:47 <DavidWHodgins> openssl was pushed to updates 2 days ago
19:14:01 <lewyssmith> tjandrews, TJ, was it not you who had an update problem due to SSL?
19:14:23 <tjandrews> No, it was Morgan.
19:14:28 <lewyssmith> Sorry.
19:14:35 <wilcal> How confident are we with Morgans list?
19:14:42 <wilcal> As it is today
19:14:46 <DavidWHodgins> Whatever the problem was, it shouldn't cause any problems now
19:15:01 <lewyssmith> Morgan had a very old base system.
19:15:02 <DavidWHodgins> I'm not relying solely on the lists in the bug reports.
19:15:21 <lewyssmith> Nor can you rely on the RPMs bug lists!
19:15:47 <wilcal> oh nice and firm update process :-0.....
19:16:11 <wilcal> somewhere along the line this has to stabilize
19:16:17 <DavidWHodgins> I've downloaded the list of srpm packages on the mirrors. I'm going through to figure out which ones are for which bug reports. When that's done, I'll contact the packagers to see what should be done with those that are not listed
19:16:53 <DavidWHodgins> The srpm list is what will be used to control what's pushed from testing to updates
19:17:04 <lewyssmith> I posted that we need packager feedback. What is the status quo?
19:17:27 <DavidWHodgins> To get a list of all rpm packages for a given srpm ...
19:17:27 <lewyssmith> Are more updates forseeen?
19:17:38 <DavidWHodgins> urpmf --sourcerpm qttools5-5.9.4-1.mga6.src.rpm|sort
19:18:04 <DavidWHodgins> That will auto include all rpm packages for that srpm, both arches
19:18:11 <tjandrews> Updates for what? I believe we should ALWAYS expect more updates in general.
19:18:21 <lewyssmith> Are any of the bugs good to OK? If not, why not?
19:18:26 <benmc_> need to depart. May be back before end of meeting. bye all
19:18:34 <wilcal> bye
19:19:07 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: They are waiting for me to finish the advisories, and see if there are any srpms currently in testing that should have been included in the lists
19:19:34 <kekePower> I've only updated Imagemagick for mga6 and have set the bug report as dependent on the Plasma stack
19:19:48 <DavidWHodgins> The stack updates are ready to go, pending making sure we are not missing anything from the lists
19:20:02 <lewyssmith> At what point do we say that a certain bug is OK? Packagers to decide, in my view.
19:20:30 <kekePower> what worries me is lxqt
19:20:32 <DavidWHodgins> They've been assigned to qa. It's up to us to decide.
19:21:06 <lewyssmith> For individual application problems, do they warrant new bugs or correction under the existing updates?
19:21:09 <DavidWHodgins> kekePower: Yes lxqt has problems, but from what I've seen it's still better than what we had before.
19:21:20 <DavidWHodgins> New bug reports
19:21:27 <wilcal> I'm not quite understanding why lxqt effects the Plasma update
19:21:35 <DavidWHodgins> It doesn't
19:21:41 <kekePower> wilcal: it the opposite
19:21:48 <DavidWHodgins> The qt update affects plasma and lxqt
19:21:48 <kekePower> s/it/it's
19:21:51 <lewyssmith> It depends on the Qt5 update, that is all.
19:21:53 <tjandrews> Everything I see says all are ready, as long as we get the full list.
19:22:06 <wilcal> two seperate prececess that don't efect each other right
19:22:18 <wilcal> ok thanks
19:22:28 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed. I'm working on the list, using scripts to automate it as much as possible to rule out me making dumb mistakes
19:22:40 <lewyssmith> LXQt does not effect the Plasma side; nor vice-versa.
19:23:03 <wilcal> to error is human to really screw things up takes a computer
19:23:10 <tjandrews> Dave, "dumb mistakes?" You? Never!
19:23:10 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:23:12 <kekePower> heh
19:23:35 <DavidWHodgins> I make typos or copy/paste errors all the tyme. :-)
19:23:56 <tjandrews> Oh, good! I thought I was the only one...
19:23:56 <lewyssmith> kekePower, Stig, why does ImageMagic depend on the Plasma update?
19:24:01 <DavidWHodgins> My using scripts that I test with small lists, I can rule those out.
19:24:20 <kekePower> lewyssmith: I was just being careful since Imagemagick bumped SONAME
19:24:24 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: It's like wireshark. It uses the qt libs
19:24:33 <tarazed_> kekePower: I regularly test IM on a Mate only system so now I shall have to move to a Plasma supported system?
19:25:04 <DavidWHodgins> tarazed_: No.
19:25:06 <lewyssmith> No: Qt.
19:25:14 <tarazed_> OK
19:25:17 <kekePower> IM had so many CVE's that we had no other option than to do the upgrade
19:25:46 <DavidWHodgins> That's fine. We allow version bumps if the prior version is no longer supportable.
19:26:02 <DavidWHodgins> And it doesn't break usage for existing users
19:26:28 <kekePower> there were also quite a lot of rebuilds ;)
19:26:40 <kekePower> "Rebuild for new Imagemagick"
19:26:45 <kekePower> yay
19:26:48 <DavidWHodgins> Though even that can have exceptions
19:27:31 <kekePower> I understood that when I pushed boost when I was an apprentice with rindolf
19:27:50 <kekePower> and was told afterwards that the update needed lots of rebuilds
19:27:59 <kekePower> system packages, I think it's called
19:29:09 <tarazed_> puppet still needs a feedback response - no registered maintainer?
19:29:27 <kekePower> ,maint puppet
19:29:32 <[mbot> There is no official maintainer for the puppet package. Here is the output of the list of svn commiters: misc, 14; guillomovitch, 12; thierry.v, 3; tmb@, 2; nicolaslecur, 2; colin.g, 2; blino, 2; pterjan@, 1; olav@vitt, 1; nanardon, 1; luigiwalser, 1; boklmiLeave, 1;
19:29:40 <wilcal> over the top complex package and no one in charge :-0
19:30:00 <tarazed_> A lot of pings
19:30:11 <kekePower> tarazed_: wilcal Yes, I think maybe one of the sysadmins will have a to take a look at that one
19:30:25 <wilcal> I've tinkered with puppet on a Vbox internal network
19:30:41 <DavidWHodgins> I haven't looked at puppet. Len, mind testing to see if that problem is a regression?
19:30:41 <tarazed_> tmb understood what the problem was
19:30:53 <wilcal> It's another one of those career packages
19:31:13 <tarazed_> Yes, I had tackled puppet before and this does look like a regression.
19:31:13 <wilcal> I think tmb uses it but he should not be in charge of it
19:31:43 <tarazed_> Something to do with a service package?
19:31:52 <DavidWHodgins> It's used to admin the mageia servers, so has been tested
19:32:56 <DavidWHodgins> Every change applied to the config files on the mageia servers is done using puppet
19:33:22 <kekePower> and that's what makes it so "scary"
19:33:31 <tarazed_> In testing it installs config files and other things in the wrong place so it cannot be started.
19:33:48 <lewyssmith> That is very basic.
19:33:48 <kekePower> if packaged wrongly, it can wreak havoc on a lot of systems
19:33:54 <DavidWHodgins> See http://gitweb.mageia.org/infrastructure/puppet/log/
19:33:55 <[mbot> [ puppet - Mageia Infrastructure Configuration ]
19:34:48 <DavidWHodgins> I don't know how they prevent passwords in config files from being shown, but they do. All other changes are visible in the log
19:35:54 <DavidWHodgins> As it's already in use on our servers, and it's a package used by system admins only, I'm inclined to go ahead and validate it.
19:36:25 <lewyssmith> Even with Len's doubts?
19:36:30 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
19:36:57 <lewyssmith> Should they not at least be answered?
19:37:00 <DavidWHodgins> It's only used by admins who handle multiple systems. They know it's a critical package and how to work with it.
19:37:05 <tarazed_> Well, the regression is in testing installation.  Still it saves me weeks of head scratching.
19:37:22 <DavidWHodgins> That would be preferable, but in this case I think it's ok without it.
19:38:18 <lewyssmith> I supoose if it *updates* OK, then flaky installation is less important.
19:38:34 <lewyssmith> That would cause a new bug.
19:39:42 <tarazed_> So that is agreed then.  Pass it on?
19:39:55 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Just read the piror comments. I take it back. WIll contact tmb directly
19:41:07 <DavidWHodgins> I'll watch for him to login here and check it with him then.
19:41:17 <DavidWHodgins> So likely tomorrow.
19:42:11 <DavidWHodgins> To be clear, it's overwriting the existing pupent.conf, not creating a .rpmnew file?
19:42:36 <lewyssmith> [We seem to have advanced a Topic]
19:42:37 <tarazed_> That I cannot remember.  Need a refresher.
19:43:18 <DavidWHodgins> Having the file empty on a new install is fine. If it's overwriting the existing conf file, then it's not ok.
19:44:39 <DavidWHodgins> tarazed_: Please check it again. If it's not overwriting the existing conf file, ok the bug. If it is, confirm that in the bug report
19:45:05 <tarazed_> Wilco.  Maybe on a fresh system.
19:45:11 <DavidWHodgins> Any other questions or comments on the various stack updates?
19:45:32 <lewyssmith> tarazed_, I think of you, Len!
19:46:13 <tarazed_> Ta Lewis
19:46:21 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Testing updates - Any questions or problems
19:46:47 <hviaene> Shit, I'll have to fire M5 up again
19:47:07 <DavidWHodgins> nextcloud is the one I chose to make an exception for, to allow the update even though it will break installs for current users.
19:47:16 <lewyssmith> Updates are being cleared impressively well.
19:47:47 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: A lot of thanks to you for that, especially on the advisories
19:48:06 <tarazed_> +1
19:48:20 <lewyssmith> -4 who use SQLite, I think.
19:50:14 <wilcal> If we can clear off the Plasma thingy the list would really shorten up
19:50:31 <lewyssmith> That'll be the day...
19:50:50 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:51:02 <tjandrews> wilcal: I've been saying that for two weeks...
19:51:12 <kekePower> they keep releasing new Plasma versions quickly, I see
19:51:25 <DavidWHodgins> appstream, openconnect, renderdoc and Godot are packages I don't recognize so will have to look into
19:51:42 <lewyssmith> We really do need to know whether packagers still have anything up their sleeves.
19:52:41 <DavidWHodgins> Once I id any srpms that are not listed in bug reports and get feedback on those (if there are any), I think we are ready to go
19:53:26 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Anything else?
19:53:41 <wilcal> Next week I will be at the https://www.nabshow.com/ all week so I won't be here for next weeks meeting. 100,000++ people go to this show. 4-days of people overload. I'll be wearing my openshot cap and my mageia polo shirt.
19:53:42 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone have any other questions or comments?
19:53:43 <[mbot> [ NAB Show | April 7 - 12 2018 ]
19:54:10 <wilcal> Lights, Camera Action :-))
19:54:14 <lewyssmith> wilcal, Best of luck, Bill.
19:54:28 <kekePower> I'm still amazed at the level of expertise this group has
19:54:28 <DavidWHodgins> Enjoy it!
19:54:53 <wilcal> I'm done
19:54:54 <kekePower> so many packages and yet you still manage to test and validate
19:55:19 <wilcal> Martin's qarepo.pl has been a godsend
19:55:21 * kekePower goes back to packaging, fixing and pushing updates
19:55:24 <tjandrews> Aw, shucks... Twarn't nuthin'.
19:55:29 <lewyssmith> !
19:55:34 <DavidWHodgins> While it (thankfully) doesn't happen very often, it's not the first time we've had a full qt or gtk update
19:55:57 <lewyssmith> Nothing on this scale before, I bet.
19:56:01 <hviaene> Not in my time
19:56:33 <DavidWHodgins> Only because the list of packages has gotten bigger. Software almost never shrinks.
19:56:49 <DavidWHodgins> Countdown time I guess
19:56:51 <lewyssmith> FWIW I am using Hexchat under LXQt on an update system.
19:56:58 <tarazed_> Are we closing in on mga6.1?
19:57:02 <wilcal> bye all see you in a couple weeks
19:57:12 <tarazed_> A' the best Bill
19:57:13 <lewyssmith> One thing at a time, please.
19:57:15 <wilcal> after the plasma update
19:57:16 <DavidWHodgins> We'll start on that after the qt updates are pushed
19:57:25 <hviaene> G' night all
19:57:31 <DavidWHodgins> T - 5
19:57:35 <DavidWHodgins> 4
19:57:38 <DavidWHodgins> 3
19:57:39 <lewyssmith> Goodbye everyone. A good turnout.
19:57:42 <DavidWHodgins> 2
19:57:46 <DavidWHodgins> 1
19:57:50 <tarazed_> Byw everybody
19:57:52 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks for coming everyone!
19:57:58 <DavidWHodgins> #endmeeting