20:02:15 <wilcal> #startmeeting 20:02:15 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Mar 22 20:02:15 2018 UTC. The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:02:15 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:02:32 <wilcal> #topic Who's new? 20:02:41 <wilcal> Anyone new here today 20:02:49 <lewyssmith> tjandrews, Thanks. I too often find my msgs to Gmail spammed. 20:03:30 <wilcal> No one new I guess 20:03:44 <lewyssmith> I do not see any strange names. 20:03:51 <wilcal> #topic David 20:04:00 <wilcal> wanted to talk about this right away 20:04:11 <lewyssmith> Has he talked to you? 20:04:12 <wilcal> did everyone see his message on the QA list 20:04:17 <lewyssmith> Yes. 20:04:19 <wilcal> no he has not 20:04:37 <tjandrews> I saw it. Rather unexpected. 20:04:49 <wilcal> So that kinda changes the election again so we'll have to go through that again 20:05:00 <wilcal> So sorry to see him exit right 20:05:11 <lewyssmith> -3 Especially as he has been very active lately. 20:05:34 <wilcal> A very valuable contribute to the Disto as a whole 20:05:47 <wilcal> :-( 20:05:56 <wilcal> Hopefully he'll come back 20:06:01 <tjandrews> I wish he had said how long his "break" would be. 20:06:14 <lewyssmith> He is a powerhouse when in action. 20:06:18 <wilcal> I don't even want to speculate. I wish him well 20:06:48 <lewyssmith> Knows more than the rest of us (with Claire). 20:07:37 <tjandrews> He didn't say he was stepping down as leader, only that he needed a break. 20:07:49 <wilcal> Hugs to him 20:08:06 <wilcal> I think this meeting is going to concentrate on one thing and we all know what that is 20:08:09 <wilcal> #topic qt/kf5/plasma update 20:08:21 <hviaene> I hope it has nothing todo with his health 20:08:25 <wilcal> Lots of very good discussion on the e-mail list 20:08:33 <lewyssmith> Give me a short rant please, Bill. 20:08:49 <wilcal> lots of agreement that something needs to make live easier here 20:08:50 <Bequimao> Too much to follow. 20:09:04 <lewyssmith> My rant? 20:09:17 <wilcal> Some of the suggestions I don't fully understand so please jump in if you understand 20:09:20 <wilcal> better 20:09:50 <wilcal> I took two days to create a huge executable urpmi script file 20:10:01 <wilcal> and that kinda worked. 20:10:33 <rindolf> wilcal: thanks 20:10:42 <wilcal> Also someone indicated that this is a moving target so as long as we haven't released it things keep changing 20:11:00 <wilcal> I think the script file is too ponderious to deal with 20:11:27 <wilcal> can someone explain to me if which files are needed for the upgrade differ from platform to platform 20:11:49 <wilcal> so one computer needs these files another needs almost the same but not then same 20:11:53 <lewyssmith> I feel partly responsible for saying "Do we *have" to do it this way?". I got a lot of flak on the basis that I was advocating something different. That was not the case; I was only posting a supposition. I accept the numerous knuckle-raps that we *have* to do the whole lot at once. I never opposed that; just questioned it. 20:12:11 <Bequimao> But the painel inevitably breaks? After reboot everything is fine. 20:12:30 <wilcal> One thing we as QA have to accept here is these three packages all have to be update at the same time 20:12:45 <wilcal> I'm not sure there's an order to it or not. Which comes first 20:12:54 <wilcal> tmb? 20:13:20 <lewyssmith> QT, KF, Plasma, apps. 20:13:27 <wilcal> do i do the plasma packages first, the qt first? 20:13:30 <wilcal> yes 20:13:42 <wilcal> in what order, if needed, have to be done first 20:13:42 <lewyssmith> Qt -> applications. 20:14:05 <wilcal> we may not get all the answers here today but I'd like to have this nailed down and testing by next meeting 20:14:21 <wilcal> all of this is for the QA record so we can refer back to it 20:14:47 <lewyssmith> I am going for the Full Monty very soon. The last of the 4. 20:15:14 <tmb> basically QT + Plasme needs to upgrade at the same time to get a working desktop... 20:15:38 <lewyssmith> Hello David; hope you can see backwards! 20:15:49 <wilcal> So the suggestion that seems to be to set up a special repo with just the packages for this upgrade 20:16:01 <wilcal> we may not get all the answers here today but I'd like to have this nailed down and testing by next meeting 20:16:13 <wilcal> in what order, if needed, have to be done first 20:16:19 <tmb> since new QT breaks old plasma the new plasma needs to update too, and since new plasma needs new QT you get a nice dep loop :) 20:16:37 <lewyssmith> And KF5 in the middle. 20:16:51 <lewyssmith> And the KDE applications on top. 20:16:59 <wilcal> i agree they have to be done at the same time but do you urpmi qt then urpmi plasma or visa versa or does it not count 20:17:02 <Luigi12_work> Thierry gave instructions for setting up a local repo in the mailing list 20:17:13 <lewyssmith> Saw that. 20:17:24 <wilcal> I want those instructions put in here and explained to the less informed 20:17:32 <tmb> yeah, plasma & co is very porly designed to get this kind of mess.. 20:17:34 <wilcal> like me 20:17:38 <Bequimao> Something like kde_next? 20:17:57 <wilcal> yes in what order do you urpmi the three 20:18:03 <wilcal> if you care at all 20:19:16 <tjandrews> As long as you don't pause the updates and try to use some of them, it doesn't seem to matter too much. 20:20:00 <wilcal> you got 20:20:06 <wilcal> you go right? 20:20:09 <tjandrews> I did a successful update from Mageia Update by selecting a few packages at a time, updating those, then going back for more until all were done. 20:20:26 <wilcal> urpmi --auto-update 20:20:28 <Bequimao> You can execute them in a virtual termimal [Ctrl + Alt + F2] and the reboot. 20:20:39 <Bequimao> * then reboot * 20:21:07 <Luigi12_work> https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/qa-discuss/2018-03/msg00190.html 20:21:07 <wilcal> So does anyone have Thierry's proposal to post it here 20:21:09 <[mbot> [ qa-discuss - Discussions about QA tasks and requests - confirm_action ] 20:21:45 <lewis_> Damn! My system just froze solid, had to hard re-boot. 20:22:27 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: the link I just pasted is tv's instructions 20:22:41 <wilcal> lemme look at it for a sec 20:23:18 <lewis_> Luigi12_work, Can you plese re-show it? I lost it in my break. 20:23:25 <tmb> D=<folder_name> 20:23:25 <tmb> genhdlist2 $D 20:23:25 <tmb> urpmi.addmedia TempPlasma $D 20:23:58 <lewis_> [testing] 20:24:16 <wilcal> D=<folder_name> is where you want to put the repo? 20:24:24 <tmb> so <folder name> is the path where you have all the update rpms donwloaded 20:24:44 <wilcal> on the local drive 20:24:45 <tmb> genhdlist2 command creates urpmi metadata 20:24:53 * tjandrews is wondering if Lewis is using that partially-updated system... 20:25:00 <tmb> urpmi.addmedia adds the new media 20:25:07 <tmb> then you can urpmi --auto-up 20:25:20 <lewis_> tjandrews, TJ, yes! But not KDE or Plasma... 20:26:09 <lewis_> tmb, How do you download all the rpms to that local repo? 20:26:18 <tjandrews> lewis: But when you have some Plasma apps installed, things interact. 20:26:23 <wilcal> so the only thing in repo TempPlasma is the files needed for qt kf5 and plasma 20:26:34 <lewis_> + KDE 20:27:07 <tjandrews> wilcal: You need the applications stack, too. 20:27:29 <wilcal> this is all still very confusing 20:27:48 <Luigi12_work> no it's not, it's three commands 20:28:04 <Luigi12_work> the hardest part is getting the needed rpms into the directory initially, but you have the lists, plus the versions are mostly the same 20:28:15 <wilcal> so on one of my machines I have the entire M6 repo, everything 20:28:28 <Luigi12_work> it'd be a little extra work for the ones that are different, like the rebuilt applications and stuff 20:28:56 <lewis_> Bill, in order: Qt5, KF5, Plasma, KDE Applications. (Ignoring other Qt things). 20:29:30 <Luigi12_work> well if there's any other update tied to the Qt5 one, you'll want to include those too 20:29:36 <Luigi12_work> unless you don't have those packages installed to begin with 20:30:15 <lewis_> LXQt desktop. 20:30:22 <Luigi12_work> yeah like that one 20:30:25 <wilcal> I still see lots of ways to error in this process 20:30:34 <Luigi12_work> VLC and wireshark are some others 20:30:47 <Luigi12_work> the only place you can err is not getting the right packages in the directory 20:30:53 <lewis_> That need to be, or have been, updated for Qt5. 20:31:16 <lewis_> Luigi12_work, David: how *do* you get the pkgs into the directory? 20:31:23 <Luigi12_work> the KDE team bugs should have package lists, and the other things should be linked to the Qt5 bug in bugzilla 20:31:37 <Luigi12_work> lewis_: rsync or cp should be just fine 20:31:37 <wilcal> so genhdlist2 builds a repo of what's needed on the platform that's it's being run on? 20:31:50 <Luigi12_work> genhdlist2 builds the hdlist for your directory of rpms that you made 20:31:58 <Luigi12_work> that's what allows you to urpmi.addmedia it 20:32:04 <Luigi12_work> so urpmi can see it and use it 20:32:19 <wilcal> well it's something to tinker with 20:32:32 <Bequimao> Do not forget dnf and Packagekit! 20:32:38 <Luigi12_work> yeah, shouldn't be too hard if you have the packages downloaded 20:32:43 <lewis_> Luigi12_work, cp or rsync from where? 20:32:43 <wilcal> I will forget those every time 20:32:55 <Luigi12_work> lewis_: you have to have an existing copy of updates_testing 20:33:05 <lewis_> Ah. Do not. 20:33:13 <wilcal> I have the full repo for M6 here actually on a couple machines 20:33:20 <wilcal> one working the other backup 20:33:20 <Luigi12_work> that can be pulled down easily with rsync 20:33:40 <wilcal> and takes hours and hours even with a fast internet connection 20:34:19 <Luigi12_work> x86_64/core/updates_testing alone shouldn't 20:34:28 <Luigi12_work> the full distro with everything, yeah that takes a while 20:34:54 <Luigi12_work> I have an excludes file at home that really helps, gets rid of SRPMS and debug stuff 20:35:12 <wilcal> The M6 repo right now is 194GB & 87,000 files 20:35:21 <lewis_> tmb's suggestion of using rpmdrake, selecting on full pkg names by version is very nice. Except it crashed with me. 20:35:32 <Luigi12_work> ouch 20:35:37 <Luigi12_work> has anyone tried dragoraUpdate? 20:35:58 <tmb> lewis_, did you use plasma DE when it crashed ? 20:35:59 <lewis_> It interestingly shows what you already have, & do not.So you can grow your collection. 20:36:23 <wilcal> My task from this is to read up and experiment with the command: genhdlist2 20:36:28 <lewis_> tmb, Cannot remember. I use several desktops. 20:36:37 <Bequimao> I excecuted dnf with a full upgrade, no lists. 20:36:48 <wilcal> if I can understand that maybe I can get something useful by next meeting 20:37:17 <wilcal> I also agree with folks that we need to understand this skill as it's going to happen again 20:37:28 <tmb> btw, one "easy" way of getting the rpms you want: 20:37:34 <Bequimao> As I said, the Plasma painel broke. After reboot everything is fine. 20:37:36 <tmb> rsync -av rsync://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/mageia/distrib/6/x86_64/media/core/updates_testing/*5.9.4* . 20:37:46 <lewis_> tmb, But with your question, I will try it under different desktops. 20:38:19 <tmb> that will fetch only the packages with version 5.9.4 (as QT is) to your local dir 20:38:26 <wilcal> someones suggest that this get built into M6.1 and M6 not be upgraded with it 20:38:35 <tmb> s/local/current/ 20:38:39 <lewis_> tmb, I had better keep this log this week for that! Thank you. 20:38:41 <wilcal> less risky 20:38:59 <wilcal> that is my main goal for this week is to get all this down into one place 20:39:23 <tmb> then switch 5.9.4 for whatever the other plasma/kf/... updates have 20:39:31 <wilcal> tmb: are we reaching a critical point in time where this needs to be folded in? 20:39:36 <lewis_> Understood. 20:39:58 <tarazed_> Thanks tmb - that is very useful 20:40:08 <wilcal> pressure to get this down quickly or it would be nice to do 20:40:11 <tmb> then genhdlist on the dir, add it as media and update 20:41:01 <wilcal> where does the new repo get written 20:41:10 <tmb> dont forget the last dot "." on the rsync command line or it will only list the contents 20:41:30 <wilcal> so the m6 194GB repo gets mostly, partially, all written somewhere else? 20:41:37 <tmb> or exchange the dot with a real path to wherever you want it stored 20:42:02 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: that suggestion was nonsense 20:42:19 <Luigi12_work> as for this thing with a local dir needing to be understood and done again, it's highly unlikely this will need to be done again 20:42:32 <lewis_> tmb, It was quoting the right *source* that was the enigma. Thanks for the specifics. 20:42:34 <Luigi12_work> what does need to be understood is the normal testing updates procedure TJ and I posted after last week's meeting 20:42:55 <wilcal> If I am succussful i will publish the command on the e-mail list 20:43:11 <lewis_> Luigi12_work, Yes, there is no need to deviate from that. 20:44:02 <wilcal> so understanding and using genhdlist2 is key 20:44:26 <lewis_> Suck it and see? 20:44:38 <Bequimao> @ all: Did you ask neoclust about this procedure? 20:45:18 <wilcal> lots of references to genhdlist on google 20:45:26 <Luigi12_work> you don't need to understand it 20:45:35 <wilcal> is the command genhdlist or genhdlist2 20:45:35 <Luigi12_work> you literally run it with one argument, the name of the directory you put the rpms in 20:45:39 <Luigi12_work> genhdlist2 20:45:48 <wilcal> thks 20:45:56 <Luigi12_work> so if you put the rpms in /mnt/wilcal/plasma, it's genhdlist2 /mnt/wilcal/plasma 20:45:59 <Luigi12_work> that simple 20:46:13 <Luigi12_work> then urpmi.addmedia TestPlasma /mnt/wilcal/plasma 20:46:25 <wilcal> and it will work with all the subdirectories 20:46:40 <wilcal> of the original repo 20:46:50 <Luigi12_work> it's just one directory 20:48:00 <wilcal> if my local repo is at: home/wilcal/distrib/6/repo 20:48:23 <Luigi12_work> that's not important 20:48:28 <wilcal> in that repo directory in an su terminal run genhdlist2 20:48:31 <Luigi12_work> what matters is the directory you create that you copy the packages into 20:48:44 <Luigi12_work> that's the directory you run genhdlist2 and urpmi.addmedia on, not your original repo directory 20:48:45 <wilcal> can it be done in a Vbox client? 20:48:57 <Luigi12_work> it can done anywhere that's Mageia 20:49:06 <tmb> :) 20:49:14 <wilcal> how big would you expect the results to be 20:49:25 <wilcal> 20gb, 100gb, 3gb 20:49:39 <Luigi12_work> probably 90% of what updates_testing is currently 20:49:57 <Luigi12_work> I don't have a local copy so I can't check, but you can 20:49:58 <wilcal> Ahhhhhhh!!!!!! ok we're making progress here. 20:50:07 <wilcal> Somthing I think I can play with 20:50:12 <Luigi12_work> ok good 20:50:16 <tjandrews> I haven't seen much about this... In the bug about the KDE Applications stack... Comment 1, by David Geiger, lists packages that need to be updated in addition to those Nicolas listed. Be sure to get those, too, 20:50:20 <leuhmanu> $ du -sh /media/data/pub/Mageia/6/x86_64/media/core/updates_testing/ 20:50:21 <leuhmanu> 4,0G /media/data/pub/Mageia/6/x86_64/media/core/updates_testing/ 20:50:25 <tmb> updates_testing is currently 3.7G 20:50:33 <wilcal> I think I have something to start with here. 20:50:42 <Luigi12_work> so you're probably looking at ~3.5G 20:50:44 <wilcal> I think we have something to start with here 20:51:23 <wilcal> you guys all monitor the qa mailing list so any questions should be posted there 20:51:39 <Luigi12_work> yep 20:51:43 <lewis_> They do, Bill... 20:51:59 <Luigi12_work> and nobody had any questions about mine and TJ's procedure for normal updates from last week, so I assume everyone understand that 20:52:17 <wilcal> how does it know to just select only the packages for qt/kf5/plasma/kde 20:52:42 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: for this making a separate repo thing, it'll know that because that's all you put in there 20:53:01 <wilcal> partial understanding I think but after this we have something to work with 20:53:07 <Luigi12_work> ok 20:53:11 <lewis_> Welcome, Brian. 20:53:19 <Brian___> hi All 20:53:26 <wilcal> Brian you missed all the hot action :-)) 20:53:45 <Brian___> :-) Just tell me what to do. 20:53:50 <wilcal> kde update 20:54:12 <Brian___> yeah - I had difficulties while running plasma. but once it is in, stable 20:54:18 <Brian___> and installing 20:54:21 <wilcal> it's all in the notes and I'll put a link to it in the qa mailing list 20:54:32 <Brian___> thank you 20:55:10 <wilcal> After all of that lets move on to: 20:55:12 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates 20:55:26 <lewis_> Just don't forget the others! 20:55:27 <wilcal> kinda got involved so lets look at the list 20:55:54 <lewis_> They make a break from our major task. 20:56:37 <wilcal> mailman looks to be a career builder app 20:56:59 <tjandrews> Clear out the Plasma-related stuff and there's not really much left. 20:57:10 <wilcal> so there's my weekend 20:57:18 <Luigi12_work> yeah that's because hardly anyone is building security updates 20:57:21 <wilcal> any more kernels in the pipe tmb? 20:57:40 <Luigi12_work> https://madb.mageia.org/tools/security we're missing a few needed updates 20:57:42 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Security issues ] 20:59:20 <wilcal> Hello Akien 20:59:49 <wilcal> same thing. Lots of discussion on the qt/kf5/plasma/kde update. The notes will be on the qa mailing list 20:59:53 <Brian___> transmission is waiting on the rest - QT5 etc. 20:59:56 <Brian___> tested out fine 21:00:12 <wilcal> qt didn't present a problem at all 21:00:16 <wilcal> at least for me 21:00:30 <tmb> there will probably be a new kernel based on 4.14.30 ~this weekend 21:00:44 <wilcal> lordy 21:01:31 <wilcal> Anyway I think we've bent our brians enough today. Lots of things to play with 21:01:44 <Brian___> ok - I should have a little bandwidth to test install 4.14.30 21:01:55 <wilcal> #topic Anything else? 21:02:00 <wilcal> anything else 21:02:16 <Brian___> not from me 21:02:38 <wilcal> Sin City USA has the best Buffets in the world. I'm gonna visit them all :-)) 21:02:48 <Brian___> :-) 21:02:53 <tjandrews> The gnucash part of the kmymoney/gnucash update needs to be tested intested in non-Plasma DEs. 21:03:35 <wilcal> i'm tapped out 21:03:35 <tjandrews> (Must pay better attention when editing my comments) 21:03:43 <wilcal> anyone else with something 21:03:50 <lewis_> I will look at that if I find the time. Busy currently. 21:04:09 <wilcal> thanks all for participating. Lots of stress on this one 21:04:10 <tjandrews> I don't use either app. 21:04:17 <lewis_> Nor me. 21:04:43 <Brian___> I've touched gnucash, but not a regular 21:04:49 <wilcal> time for count down 21:04:52 <wilcal> T-5 21:04:54 <lewis_> Hello Ben. Goodbye evreyone, thanks for the lively debates. 21:05:06 <Benmc_> lewis 21:05:14 <wilcal> T-4 21:05:17 <tjandrews> Time change next week? 21:05:36 <wilcal> Ahhhh yes. We're at 19:00 UTC next week 21:05:37 <lewis_> Do not know. 21:05:47 <wilcal> I'll put that in the notes 21:05:59 <wilcal> T-3 21:06:06 <wilcal> T-2 21:06:10 <wilcal> T-1 21:06:12 <wilcal> bye all 21:06:14 <wilcal> #endmeeting