20:02:15 <wilcal> #startmeeting
20:02:15 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Mar 22 20:02:15 2018 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:02:15 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:02:32 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
20:02:41 <wilcal> Anyone new here today
20:02:49 <lewyssmith> tjandrews, Thanks. I too often find my msgs to Gmail spammed.
20:03:30 <wilcal> No one new I guess
20:03:44 <lewyssmith> I do not see any strange names.
20:03:51 <wilcal> #topic David
20:04:00 <wilcal> wanted to talk about this right away
20:04:11 <lewyssmith> Has he talked to you?
20:04:12 <wilcal> did everyone see his message on the QA list
20:04:17 <lewyssmith> Yes.
20:04:19 <wilcal> no he has not
20:04:37 <tjandrews> I saw it. Rather unexpected.
20:04:49 <wilcal> So that kinda changes the election again so we'll have to go through that again
20:05:00 <wilcal> So sorry to see him exit right
20:05:11 <lewyssmith> -3 Especially as he has been very active lately.
20:05:34 <wilcal> A very valuable contribute to the Disto as a whole
20:05:47 <wilcal> :-(
20:05:56 <wilcal> Hopefully he'll come back
20:06:01 <tjandrews> I wish he had said how long his "break" would be.
20:06:14 <lewyssmith> He is a powerhouse when in action.
20:06:18 <wilcal> I don't even want to speculate. I wish him well
20:06:48 <lewyssmith> Knows more than the rest of us (with Claire).
20:07:37 <tjandrews> He didn't say he was stepping down as leader, only that he needed a break.
20:07:49 <wilcal> Hugs to him
20:08:06 <wilcal> I think this meeting is going to concentrate on one thing and we all know what that is
20:08:09 <wilcal> #topic qt/kf5/plasma update
20:08:21 <hviaene> I hope it has nothing todo with his health
20:08:25 <wilcal> Lots of very good discussion on the e-mail list
20:08:33 <lewyssmith> Give me a short rant please, Bill.
20:08:49 <wilcal> lots of agreement that something needs to make live easier here
20:08:50 <Bequimao> Too much to follow.
20:09:04 <lewyssmith> My rant?
20:09:17 <wilcal> Some of the suggestions I don't fully understand so please jump in if you understand
20:09:20 <wilcal> better
20:09:50 <wilcal> I took two days to create a huge executable urpmi script file
20:10:01 <wilcal> and that kinda worked.
20:10:33 <rindolf> wilcal: thanks
20:10:42 <wilcal> Also someone indicated that this is a moving target so as long as we haven't released it things keep changing
20:11:00 <wilcal> I think the script file is too ponderious to deal with
20:11:27 <wilcal> can someone explain to me if which files are needed for the upgrade differ from platform to platform
20:11:49 <wilcal> so one computer needs these files another needs almost the same but not then same
20:11:53 <lewyssmith> I feel partly responsible for saying "Do we *have" to do it this way?". I got a lot of flak on the basis that I was advocating something different. That was not the case; I was only posting a supposition. I accept the numerous knuckle-raps that we *have* to do the whole lot at once. I never opposed that; just questioned it.
20:12:11 <Bequimao> But the painel inevitably breaks? After reboot everything is fine.
20:12:30 <wilcal> One thing we as QA have to accept here is these three packages all have to be update at the same time
20:12:45 <wilcal> I'm not sure there's an order to it or not. Which comes first
20:12:54 <wilcal> tmb?
20:13:20 <lewyssmith> QT, KF, Plasma, apps.
20:13:27 <wilcal> do i do the plasma packages first, the qt first?
20:13:30 <wilcal> yes
20:13:42 <wilcal> in what order, if needed, have to be done first
20:13:42 <lewyssmith> Qt -> applications.
20:14:05 <wilcal> we may not get all the answers here today but I'd like to have this nailed down and testing by next meeting
20:14:21 <wilcal> all of this is for the QA record so we can refer back to it
20:14:47 <lewyssmith> I am going for the Full Monty very soon. The last of the 4.
20:15:14 <tmb> basically QT + Plasme needs to upgrade at the same time to get a working desktop...
20:15:38 <lewyssmith> Hello David; hope you can see backwards!
20:15:49 <wilcal> So the suggestion that seems to be to set up a special repo with just the packages for this upgrade
20:16:01 <wilcal> we may not get all the answers here today but I'd like to have this nailed down and testing by next meeting
20:16:13 <wilcal> in what order, if needed, have to be done first
20:16:19 <tmb> since new QT breaks old plasma the new plasma needs to update too, and since new plasma needs new QT you get a nice dep loop :)
20:16:37 <lewyssmith> And KF5 in the middle.
20:16:51 <lewyssmith> And the KDE applications on top.
20:16:59 <wilcal> i agree they have to be done at the same time but do you urpmi qt then urpmi plasma or visa versa or does it not count
20:17:02 <Luigi12_work> Thierry gave instructions for setting up a local repo in the mailing list
20:17:13 <lewyssmith> Saw that.
20:17:24 <wilcal> I want those instructions put in here and explained to the less informed
20:17:32 <tmb> yeah, plasma & co is very porly designed to get this kind of mess..
20:17:34 <wilcal> like me
20:17:38 <Bequimao> Something like kde_next?
20:17:57 <wilcal> yes in what order do you urpmi the three
20:18:03 <wilcal> if you care at all
20:19:16 <tjandrews> As long as you don't pause the updates and try to use some of them, it doesn't seem to matter too much.
20:20:00 <wilcal> you got
20:20:06 <wilcal> you go right?
20:20:09 <tjandrews> I did a successful update from Mageia Update by selecting a few packages at a time, updating those, then going back for more until all were done.
20:20:26 <wilcal> urpmi --auto-update
20:20:28 <Bequimao> You can execute them in a virtual termimal [Ctrl + Alt + F2] and the reboot.
20:20:39 <Bequimao> * then reboot *
20:21:07 <Luigi12_work> https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/qa-discuss/2018-03/msg00190.html
20:21:07 <wilcal> So does anyone have Thierry's proposal to post it here
20:21:09 <[mbot> [ qa-discuss - Discussions about QA tasks and requests - confirm_action ]
20:21:45 <lewis_> Damn! My system just froze solid, had to hard re-boot.
20:22:27 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: the link I just pasted is tv's instructions
20:22:41 <wilcal> lemme look at it for a sec
20:23:18 <lewis_> Luigi12_work, Can you plese re-show it? I lost it in my break.
20:23:25 <tmb> D=<folder_name>
20:23:25 <tmb> genhdlist2 $D
20:23:25 <tmb> urpmi.addmedia TempPlasma $D
20:23:58 <lewis_> [testing]
20:24:16 <wilcal> D=<folder_name> is where you want to put the repo?
20:24:24 <tmb> so <folder name> is the path where you have all the update rpms donwloaded
20:24:44 <wilcal> on the local drive
20:24:45 <tmb> genhdlist2 command creates urpmi metadata
20:24:53 * tjandrews is wondering if Lewis is using that partially-updated system...
20:25:00 <tmb> urpmi.addmedia adds the new media
20:25:07 <tmb> then you can urpmi --auto-up
20:25:20 <lewis_> tjandrews, TJ, yes! But not KDE or Plasma...
20:26:09 <lewis_> tmb, How do you download all the rpms to that local repo?
20:26:18 <tjandrews> lewis: But when you have some Plasma apps installed, things interact.
20:26:23 <wilcal> so the only thing in repo TempPlasma is the files needed for qt kf5 and plasma
20:26:34 <lewis_> + KDE
20:27:07 <tjandrews> wilcal: You need the applications stack, too.
20:27:29 <wilcal> this is all still very confusing
20:27:48 <Luigi12_work> no it's not, it's three commands
20:28:04 <Luigi12_work> the hardest part is getting the needed rpms into the directory initially, but you have the lists, plus the versions are mostly the same
20:28:15 <wilcal> so on one of my machines I have the entire M6 repo, everything
20:28:28 <Luigi12_work> it'd be a little extra work for the ones that are different, like the rebuilt applications and stuff
20:28:56 <lewis_> Bill, in order: Qt5, KF5, Plasma, KDE Applications. (Ignoring other Qt things).
20:29:30 <Luigi12_work> well if there's any other update tied to the Qt5 one, you'll want to include those too
20:29:36 <Luigi12_work> unless you don't have those packages installed to begin with
20:30:15 <lewis_> LXQt desktop.
20:30:22 <Luigi12_work> yeah like that one
20:30:25 <wilcal> I still see lots of ways to error in this process
20:30:34 <Luigi12_work> VLC and wireshark are some others
20:30:47 <Luigi12_work> the only place you can err is not getting the right packages in the directory
20:30:53 <lewis_> That need to be, or have been, updated for Qt5.
20:31:16 <lewis_> Luigi12_work, David: how *do* you get the pkgs into the directory?
20:31:23 <Luigi12_work> the KDE team bugs should have package lists, and the other things should be linked to the Qt5 bug in bugzilla
20:31:37 <Luigi12_work> lewis_: rsync or cp should be just fine
20:31:37 <wilcal> so genhdlist2 builds a repo of what's needed on the platform that's it's being run on?
20:31:50 <Luigi12_work> genhdlist2 builds the hdlist for your directory of rpms that you made
20:31:58 <Luigi12_work> that's what allows you to urpmi.addmedia it
20:32:04 <Luigi12_work> so urpmi can see it and use it
20:32:19 <wilcal> well it's something to tinker with
20:32:32 <Bequimao> Do not forget dnf and Packagekit!
20:32:38 <Luigi12_work> yeah, shouldn't be too hard if you have the packages downloaded
20:32:43 <lewis_> Luigi12_work, cp or rsync from where?
20:32:43 <wilcal> I will forget those every time
20:32:55 <Luigi12_work> lewis_: you have to have an existing copy of updates_testing
20:33:05 <lewis_> Ah. Do not.
20:33:13 <wilcal> I have the full repo for M6 here actually on a couple machines
20:33:20 <wilcal> one working the other backup
20:33:20 <Luigi12_work> that can be pulled down easily with rsync
20:33:40 <wilcal> and takes hours and hours even with a fast internet connection
20:34:19 <Luigi12_work> x86_64/core/updates_testing alone shouldn't
20:34:28 <Luigi12_work> the full distro with everything, yeah that takes a while
20:34:54 <Luigi12_work> I have an excludes file at home that really helps, gets rid of SRPMS and debug stuff
20:35:12 <wilcal> The M6 repo right now is 194GB & 87,000 files
20:35:21 <lewis_> tmb's suggestion of using rpmdrake, selecting on full pkg  names by version is very nice. Except it crashed with me.
20:35:32 <Luigi12_work> ouch
20:35:37 <Luigi12_work> has anyone tried dragoraUpdate?
20:35:58 <tmb> lewis_, did you use plasma DE when it crashed ?
20:35:59 <lewis_> It interestingly shows what you already have, & do not.So you can grow your collection.
20:36:23 <wilcal> My task from this is to read up and experiment with the command: genhdlist2
20:36:28 <lewis_> tmb, Cannot remember. I use several desktops.
20:36:37 <Bequimao> I excecuted dnf with a full upgrade, no lists.
20:36:48 <wilcal> if I can understand that maybe I can get something useful by next meeting
20:37:17 <wilcal> I also agree with folks that we need to understand this skill as it's going to happen again
20:37:28 <tmb> btw, one "easy" way of getting the rpms you want:
20:37:34 <Bequimao> As I said, the Plasma painel broke. After reboot everything is fine.
20:37:36 <tmb> rsync -av rsync://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/mageia/distrib/6/x86_64/media/core/updates_testing/*5.9.4* .
20:37:46 <lewis_> tmb, But with your question, I will try it under different desktops.
20:38:19 <tmb> that will fetch only the packages with version 5.9.4 (as QT is) to your local dir
20:38:26 <wilcal> someones suggest that this get built into M6.1 and M6 not be upgraded with it
20:38:35 <tmb> s/local/current/
20:38:39 <lewis_> tmb, I had better keep this log this week for that! Thank you.
20:38:41 <wilcal> less risky
20:38:59 <wilcal> that is my main goal for this week is to get all this down into one place
20:39:23 <tmb> then switch 5.9.4 for whatever the other plasma/kf/... updates have
20:39:31 <wilcal> tmb: are we reaching a critical point in time where this needs to be folded in?
20:39:36 <lewis_> Understood.
20:39:58 <tarazed_> Thanks tmb - that is very useful
20:40:08 <wilcal> pressure to get this down quickly or it would be nice to do
20:40:11 <tmb> then genhdlist on the dir, add it as media and update
20:41:01 <wilcal> where does the new repo get written
20:41:10 <tmb> dont forget the last dot "." on the rsync command line or it will only list the contents
20:41:30 <wilcal> so the m6 194GB repo gets mostly, partially, all written somewhere else?
20:41:37 <tmb> or exchange the dot with a real path to wherever you want it stored
20:42:02 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: that suggestion was nonsense
20:42:19 <Luigi12_work> as for this thing with a local dir needing to be understood and done again, it's highly unlikely this will need to be done again
20:42:32 <lewis_> tmb, It was quoting the right *source* that was the enigma. Thanks for the specifics.
20:42:34 <Luigi12_work> what does need to be understood is the normal testing updates procedure TJ and I posted after last week's meeting
20:42:55 <wilcal> If I am succussful i will publish the command on the e-mail list
20:43:11 <lewis_> Luigi12_work, Yes, there is no need to deviate from that.
20:44:02 <wilcal> so understanding and using  genhdlist2 is key
20:44:26 <lewis_> Suck it and see?
20:44:38 <Bequimao> @ all: Did you ask neoclust about this procedure?
20:45:18 <wilcal> lots of references to genhdlist on google
20:45:26 <Luigi12_work> you don't need to understand it
20:45:35 <wilcal> is the command genhdlist or genhdlist2
20:45:35 <Luigi12_work> you literally run it with one argument, the name of the directory you put the rpms in
20:45:39 <Luigi12_work> genhdlist2
20:45:48 <wilcal> thks
20:45:56 <Luigi12_work> so if you put the rpms in /mnt/wilcal/plasma, it's genhdlist2 /mnt/wilcal/plasma
20:45:59 <Luigi12_work> that simple
20:46:13 <Luigi12_work> then urpmi.addmedia TestPlasma /mnt/wilcal/plasma
20:46:25 <wilcal> and it will work with all the subdirectories
20:46:40 <wilcal> of the original repo
20:46:50 <Luigi12_work> it's just one directory
20:48:00 <wilcal> if my local repo is at: home/wilcal/distrib/6/repo
20:48:23 <Luigi12_work> that's not important
20:48:28 <wilcal> in that repo directory in an su terminal run genhdlist2
20:48:31 <Luigi12_work> what matters is the directory you create that you copy the packages into
20:48:44 <Luigi12_work> that's the directory you run genhdlist2 and urpmi.addmedia on, not your original repo directory
20:48:45 <wilcal> can it be done in a Vbox client?
20:48:57 <Luigi12_work> it can done anywhere that's Mageia
20:49:06 <tmb> :)
20:49:14 <wilcal> how big would you expect the results to be
20:49:25 <wilcal> 20gb, 100gb, 3gb
20:49:39 <Luigi12_work> probably 90% of what updates_testing is currently
20:49:57 <Luigi12_work> I don't have a local copy so I can't check, but you can
20:49:58 <wilcal> Ahhhhhhh!!!!!! ok we're making progress here.
20:50:07 <wilcal> Somthing I think I can play with
20:50:12 <Luigi12_work> ok good
20:50:16 <tjandrews> I haven't seen much about this... In the bug about the KDE Applications stack... Comment 1, by David Geiger, lists packages that need to be updated in addition to those Nicolas listed. Be sure to get those, too,
20:50:20 <leuhmanu> $ du -sh /media/data/pub/Mageia/6/x86_64/media/core/updates_testing/
20:50:21 <leuhmanu> 4,0G    /media/data/pub/Mageia/6/x86_64/media/core/updates_testing/
20:50:25 <tmb> updates_testing is currently 3.7G
20:50:33 <wilcal> I think I have something to start with here.
20:50:42 <Luigi12_work> so you're probably looking at ~3.5G
20:50:44 <wilcal> I think we have something to start with here
20:51:23 <wilcal> you guys all monitor the qa mailing list so any questions should be posted there
20:51:39 <Luigi12_work> yep
20:51:43 <lewis_> They do, Bill...
20:51:59 <Luigi12_work> and nobody had any questions about mine and TJ's procedure for normal updates from last week, so I assume everyone understand that
20:52:17 <wilcal> how does it know to just select only the packages for qt/kf5/plasma/kde
20:52:42 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: for this making a separate repo thing, it'll know that because that's all you put in there
20:53:01 <wilcal> partial understanding I think but after this we have something to work with
20:53:07 <Luigi12_work> ok
20:53:11 <lewis_> Welcome, Brian.
20:53:19 <Brian___> hi All
20:53:26 <wilcal> Brian you missed all the hot action :-))
20:53:45 <Brian___> :-)  Just tell me what to do.
20:53:50 <wilcal> kde update
20:54:12 <Brian___> yeah - I had difficulties while running plasma.  but once it is in, stable
20:54:18 <Brian___> and installing
20:54:21 <wilcal> it's all in the notes and I'll put a link to it in the qa mailing list
20:54:32 <Brian___> thank you
20:55:10 <wilcal> After all of that lets move on to:
20:55:12 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates
20:55:26 <lewis_> Just don't forget the others!
20:55:27 <wilcal> kinda got involved so lets look at the list
20:55:54 <lewis_> They make a break from our major task.
20:56:37 <wilcal> mailman looks to be a career builder app
20:56:59 <tjandrews> Clear out the Plasma-related stuff and there's not really much left.
20:57:10 <wilcal> so there's my weekend
20:57:18 <Luigi12_work> yeah that's because hardly anyone is building security updates
20:57:21 <wilcal> any more kernels in the pipe tmb?
20:57:40 <Luigi12_work> https://madb.mageia.org/tools/security  we're missing a few needed updates
20:57:42 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Security issues ]
20:59:20 <wilcal> Hello Akien
20:59:49 <wilcal> same thing. Lots of discussion on the qt/kf5/plasma/kde update. The notes will be on the qa mailing list
20:59:53 <Brian___> transmission is waiting on the rest - QT5 etc.
20:59:56 <Brian___> tested out fine
21:00:12 <wilcal> qt didn't present a problem at all
21:00:16 <wilcal> at least for me
21:00:30 <tmb> there will probably be a new kernel based on 4.14.30 ~this weekend
21:00:44 <wilcal> lordy
21:01:31 <wilcal> Anyway I think we've bent our brians enough today. Lots of things to play with
21:01:44 <Brian___> ok - I should have a little bandwidth to test install 4.14.30
21:01:55 <wilcal> #topic Anything else?
21:02:00 <wilcal> anything else
21:02:16 <Brian___> not from me
21:02:38 <wilcal> Sin City USA has the best Buffets in the world. I'm gonna visit them all :-))
21:02:48 <Brian___> :-)
21:02:53 <tjandrews> The gnucash part of the kmymoney/gnucash update needs to be tested intested in non-Plasma DEs.
21:03:35 <wilcal> i'm tapped out
21:03:35 <tjandrews> (Must pay better attention when editing my comments)
21:03:43 <wilcal> anyone else with something
21:03:50 <lewis_> I will look at that if I find the time. Busy currently.
21:04:09 <wilcal> thanks all for participating. Lots of stress on this one
21:04:10 <tjandrews> I don't use either app.
21:04:17 <lewis_> Nor me.
21:04:43 <Brian___> I've touched gnucash, but not a regular
21:04:49 <wilcal> time for count down
21:04:52 <wilcal> T-5
21:04:54 <lewis_> Hello Ben. Goodbye evreyone, thanks for the lively debates.
21:05:06 <Benmc_> lewis
21:05:14 <wilcal> T-4
21:05:17 <tjandrews> Time change next week?
21:05:36 <wilcal> Ahhhh yes. We're at 19:00 UTC next week
21:05:37 <lewis_> Do not know.
21:05:47 <wilcal> I'll put that in the notes
21:05:59 <wilcal> T-3
21:06:06 <wilcal> T-2
21:06:10 <wilcal> T-1
21:06:12 <wilcal> bye all
21:06:14 <wilcal> #endmeeting