20:07:14 <tarazed_> #startmeeting
20:07:14 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Feb  1 20:07:14 2018 UTC.  The chair is tarazed_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:07:14 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:07:35 <tarazed_> Want a seat wilcal?
20:07:51 <wilcal> sure but I'm just today getting back into the swing of things
20:08:01 <tarazed_> #chair wilcal
20:08:01 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: tarazed_ wilcal
20:08:11 <wilcal> testing the new M5 kernel in the back room here
20:08:22 <tarazed_> It is good to see you - we were getting thin on the ground.
20:08:55 <tarazed_> Lewis is ahving trouble with FranceTelecom and could be disconnected for up to 3 weeks.
20:09:31 <tarazed_> #topic Anybody new?
20:09:45 <tarazed_> Doesn't look like it so far.
20:10:28 <tarazed_> #topic agenda
20:10:55 <tarazed_> Not much listed but Lewis made a suggestion - quoting:
20:11:21 <tarazed_> > One important point: Nicolas' huge pending Plasma update. Whatever
20:11:21 <tarazed_> > happens, this will go out as one update. He offered two stages at least
20:11:21 <tarazed_> > for testing. Possible, to ease getting it right. I doubt whether it
20:11:21 <tarazed_> > will be reversible. Please discuss whether to await the 12 Feb for the
20:11:21 <tarazed_> > final KDE/Plasma update release, and do it all in one; or try now with
20:11:23 <tarazed_> > the Beta one, in two bites.
20:12:02 <wilcal> Plasma updates are huge and dangerious
20:12:09 <tarazed_> What sort of numbers are we talking about?
20:12:26 <tarazed_> huge = ?
20:12:29 <Luigi12> over 100 SRPMS.  Qt5, KF5, and Plasma are all being updated.
20:12:31 <wilcal> I'd prefer to wait till it's all in the updates_testing repo
20:12:41 <hviaene> Agree
20:12:44 <Luigi12> what Nicolas's question was, was just about the last, Plasma, part of that
20:12:50 <tarazed_> I have no opinion
20:13:06 <wilcal> Also M5 absolutely has to be behind us
20:13:11 <Luigi12> he wanted to know whether to push the Beta to updates_testing so we can try to get packaging errors sorted out before it goes final, or only push the final release and then try to fix packaging errors
20:13:31 <Luigi12> this really has no relationship to Mageia 5
20:13:36 <tarazed_> Yes, I could see the steam coming out of your ears wilcal.
20:13:46 <brian_> would it be part of 6.1?
20:14:06 <Luigi12> I think originally the plan was no, but it all depends on timing
20:14:09 <brian_> to me that's where it makes since
20:14:27 <brian_> because it is so huge
20:14:32 <Luigi12> 6.1 was originally supposed to be for the kernel 4.14 and related updates (like the mesa/etc and other packages tmb updated) for hardware enablement
20:14:45 <hviaene> Right Brian
20:14:46 <Luigi12> He was hoping to get that done before the Plasma final update drops
20:14:47 <Bequimao> Hi, is there a bug report for Plasma updates?
20:14:51 <wilcal> We can't have critical problems on M5 and be fighting bad things on M6
20:15:14 <Luigi12> they have nothing to do with each other
20:15:37 <Luigi12> anyway, since Plasma is supposed to drop in February, it really is a question of how long do we think it will take to test that update and do you want to hold up 6.1 for it
20:15:38 <tjandrews> If the goal for 6.1 is to let new 6 installs avoid massive updates, then I would think it certainly should be part of 6.1.
20:15:54 <brian_> exactly
20:15:57 <Luigi12> the argument for pushing out 6.1 sooner is that mga6 already doesn't work on new hardware
20:16:10 <Luigi12> but I agree that it would be ideal to have everything in 6.1, FWIW
20:16:18 <brian_> gen 8 I assume
20:16:37 <Luigi12> I don't know the exact details, but basically the newest CPUs and video cards
20:16:45 <tmb> yeah, the spectre/meltdown stuff really screwed other timetables
20:16:56 <Luigi12> yeah, for a lot of things
20:17:06 <brian_> so bring in 6.1 with the plasma as part of the fix?
20:17:10 <wilcal> I'm still hearing terrible things about all of that
20:17:11 <tmb> but we could do a "2-stage" 6.1
20:17:11 <brian_> and testing
20:17:20 <wilcal> Agree brian
20:17:22 <brian_> #agree
20:17:54 <tmb> 1st. fix stage2 and drakx for 4.14 series and push new net-install "boot" isos
20:18:04 <tarazed_> So there is agreement on testing the whole Plasma stack at once.
20:18:14 <Luigi12> is there?
20:18:15 <wilcal> yes
20:18:19 <Luigi12> I only just explained the question
20:18:21 <tmb> then when plasma is updated release the 6.1 classical/live stuff
20:18:37 <hviaene> one go
20:18:44 <Luigi12> tmb: that's a creative solution, I like it
20:19:35 <Luigi12> about Plasma, note that if you decide to not test the Beta, Nicolas may ask you to test upgrades to Cauldron to help sort out the packaging errors there first before backporting it to Mageia 6
20:19:42 <tjandrews> Call it a "6.1" followed later by "6.2."
20:20:11 <Luigi12> well the "6.1" only refers to the ISO version, but I don't know if that really applies to just the boot.iso.  It's mainly for the Classical and the Lives.
20:20:52 <Luigi12> boot.iso doesn't even have stage2, but its kernel needs to be updated for it to work on newer hardware
20:21:51 <brian_> I'm game - just tell me when to start testing 6.1
20:22:02 <kekePower> Does any part of Plasma use Imagemagick in any way? ref the email I sent earlier
20:22:20 <Luigi12> kekePower: I don't know off the top of my head
20:22:24 <tjandrews> Hmmm. Testing in Cauldron... Hmmm. I hadn't planned on getting into Cauldron until development was further along.
20:22:41 <Luigi12> kekePower: if it does, we'll want to hold off on that update until the Plasma stuff is done probably
20:22:53 <kekePower> Luigi12: ok.
20:23:00 <Luigi12> tjandrews: yeah, especially since Cauldron is pretty broken right now from what I hear
20:23:13 <Luigi12> mysterious issues that haven't been sorted out
20:23:16 <tjandrews> Exactly.
20:25:16 <tmb> yeah, I'm thinking of trying to put mga6 stage2 on cauldron for now to maybe gain possibility to do a clean cauldron install
20:25:34 <tmb> but I'll test it locally first to see if it works
20:26:20 <tmb> or if I have time/energy start debugging it ...
20:28:20 <tarazed_> Well I guess the next thing is
20:28:35 <tarazed_> #topic Updates - any problems?
20:28:56 <tarazed_> The list is long and getting longer.
20:28:58 <wilcal> I should finish off my testing of M5 x86_64 today
20:29:17 <wilcal> looks good so far
20:29:36 <brian_> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22026 - upgrade works.  Is anyone going to improve documentation?
20:29:38 <[mbot> [ 22026 – Upgrade the nextcloud server in updates to prevent the mess we had in MGA5 with backports. ]
20:29:41 <wilcal> then I'll get into some of the other ones as I get into the weekend
20:30:30 <brian_> clamav - I don't have a mail server to test that piece
20:30:32 <tarazed_> I had a serious problem with sddm which needs feedback.  Borking partitions left right and centre
20:30:43 <tarazed_> but it works perfectly in vbox.
20:31:15 <wilcal> I'll get to clamav unless someone else gets to it first. That takes a long time to download the db
20:31:44 <wilcal> clamav can be testing in Vbox
20:31:47 <brian_> yep
20:31:55 <Luigi12> so is that how our clamav gets its definition updates?  It just downloads them?  Some distros package it, but I wasn't sure how ours handled it.
20:32:03 <brian_> part of the security flaw is scanning mail coming into the mail-server
20:32:03 <tarazed_> At first glance many of the updates look relatively easy.
20:32:16 <brian_> mga 5 - https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21425
20:32:18 <[mbot> [ 21425 – mgaonline changes to black background and invisible labels during upgrade to Mageia 6 ]
20:32:30 <brian_> that one worked fine for me in Vbox.  Are there changes coming?
20:32:51 <Luigi12> doesn't look like Martin is here to answer that
20:33:14 <brian_> k
20:33:39 <brian_> I'll go to physical hardware pending other tests
20:34:28 <brian_> dovecot looks like a career...anybody done that before?
20:34:35 <tmb> I have to leave... any questions for me before I go... ?
20:34:54 <brian_> tmb:  16th digit of pi  ;-)
20:35:00 <tarazed_> Thanks very much fro coming Thomas.
20:36:06 <Luigi12> brian_: have you ever tested squirrelmail or roundcubemail?  They need an IMAP server (i.e. dovecot) to run over top of, so if you've ever dealt with those, that's all there is to it.  You can also test dovecot with just a normal mail client like Thunderbird or Kmail.
20:36:13 <tarazed_> brian: it has turned up before
20:36:20 <tmb> brian_, 9
20:36:33 <tmb> bye all
20:36:37 <wilcal> bye
20:36:54 <tjandrews> On the 32-bit 4.14 kernels - I haven't tried it yet, but I assume the new desktop one still has the laptop resume problem. Should there be a separate bug on that?
20:37:05 <brian_> bye
20:37:13 <hviaene> I just refered to previous dovecot updates
20:37:36 <brian_> thx
20:37:54 <Luigi12> tjandrews: has anyone reported it upstream?
20:38:15 <brian_> I have and it does happen
20:38:18 <tjandrews> I dunno.
20:38:32 <brian_> it doesn't happen in 32-bit tmb kernel or server kernel
20:38:43 <brian_> so I moved to tmb
20:38:56 <Luigi12> oh, so it's a problem with our kernel .config
20:39:09 <brian_> most likely
20:39:09 <Luigi12> so yeah, a tmb problem
20:39:11 <tjandrews> Mine uses server, because it has 8GB of RAM.
20:39:22 <Luigi12> I guess you can file a bug for it and let tmb deal with it later
20:40:07 <tjandrews> I do make a note of it on the bug report for every kernel test.
20:40:16 <brian_> you have
20:40:28 <Luigi12> yeah I've noticed, that's good
20:40:36 <tjandrews> (probably annoying.)
20:40:47 <Luigi12> it helps make sure it's not forgotten
20:41:10 <Luigi12> I guess the updates (to 4.14 and the security updates) have been the priority thus far, but hopefully after this one ships out he can turn his attention to issues like that
20:42:18 <tarazed_> #topic Anything else?
20:42:36 <brian_> nada
20:43:25 <wilcal> I brag a little. Moving here got me into a high performance Internet connection possibility, maybe
20:43:31 <Luigi12> nice
20:43:43 <brian_> good grab it if you can
20:44:05 <wilcal> So today I'm at 80M down and 10up and that with the IBM QUAD9 DNS also latency is around 25ms
20:44:19 <brian_> sweet must be fiber
20:44:27 <tarazed_> I forgot last week to commend Martin and lewis for their discovery and investigation of 32-bit efi
20:44:36 <wilcal> It's a new kind of multiplexed DSL
20:45:01 <wilcal> Fiber about 2000 feet away
20:45:11 <brian_> DSL can be good
20:45:23 <brian_> about weird 32-bit efi  - that was quite wild
20:45:34 <tarazed_> Indeed
20:45:34 <wilcal> If it's set up right it can be very very solid
20:45:44 <wilcal> I get lucky
20:45:51 <tjandrews> Spectrum is taking their own sweet time about installing infrastructure though here. New York State will probably fine them again.
20:45:58 <wilcal> Better then Coax cable
20:46:57 <brian_> as long as you're close it is works great.  When I had DSL I was at the outer limit
20:47:10 <Luigi12> yeah Fiber is awesome, too bad they won't roll it out hardly anywhere in the US
20:47:20 <Luigi12> just the most populated areas of the big cities mostly
20:47:40 <brian_> yes - I lucked out with my mom and pop, they run fiber in our rural area
20:47:44 <wilcal> The providors don't want to invest infrastructure because 5G is just around the corner
20:48:01 <Luigi12> DSL used to be good until the phone companies stopped putting any effort into maintaining that infrastructure because they're whiny little twits about Title II and because everyone's getting rid of their landline phones
20:48:11 <brian_> but a hundred house on a tower though ....
20:48:19 <brian_> put
20:48:23 <Luigi12> I wish they'd run fiber here.  It's only semi-rural, but it'll probably never happen.
20:49:01 <Luigi12> but if 5G (with no data caps) becomes a real option for fixed-location internet, that could be really interesting
20:49:31 <Luigi12> I think we can end the meeting though :o)
20:49:34 <brian_> it'll be interesting
20:49:35 <wilcal> It really does Luigi and that's going to turn a lot of thins upside down
20:49:36 <brian_> bye all
20:49:47 <wilcal> I'm done too
20:49:53 <tarazed_> Thanks Brian.
20:49:58 <hviaene> G' night all
20:50:02 <brian_> thanks all
20:50:03 <wilcal> bye all
20:50:06 <tarazed_> OK lets count it down
20:50:11 <tarazed_> T-5
20:50:16 <tarazed_> T-4
20:50:17 <wilcal> thks tar
20:50:20 <tarazed_> T-3
20:50:26 <tarazed_> T-2
20:50:30 <tarazed_> t-1
20:50:43 <tarazed_> #endmeeting