20:04:56 <wilcal> #startmeeting
20:04:56 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Dec 21 20:04:56 2017 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:04:56 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:05:07 <wilcal> Hello all welcome to another
20:05:24 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
20:05:30 <wilcal> Anyone new?
20:05:36 <wilcal> Lots of folks here today
20:05:55 <lewyssmith> IF there is anybody new here, please speak up.
20:06:13 <wilcal> #chair lewyssmith
20:06:13 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal
20:06:23 <wilcal> Does not seem to be
20:06:45 <wilcal> On to an important subject
20:06:46 <rindolf> tmb: 4.14.8
20:06:48 <wilcal> #topic M5.1 EOL
20:07:00 <wilcal> Lots of discussion on this
20:07:12 <wilcal> feel free to vent your position
20:07:32 <lewyssmith> It seems our support will sort of fizzle out at year end or after, rather than be a definite cutoff.
20:08:02 <brian_> hmm - I could see qa testing fizzling into mid Jan, but it should stop you think?
20:08:11 <kekePower> it is a rock stable distro and the transition to mga6 has been/is a troublesome one
20:08:29 <wilcal> I have a strong position in that EOL is EOL. 23:59 of UTC and it's over
20:08:34 <brian_> for kde/plasma true, which is the dominate population
20:08:47 <lewyssmith> M5 is rock stable even without ongoing updates...
20:08:53 <wilcal> regardless of how many outstanding bugs there are
20:09:02 <wilcal> We gotta move on
20:09:13 <brian_> true, but like any OS get's insecure over time ...
20:09:19 <wilcal> I agree very stable and usable
20:09:37 <kekePower> is it an idea to give mga5 over to a community group that can keep it up to date after EOL?
20:09:41 <wilcal> Any complaints upgrade to M6
20:09:45 <lewyssmith> -4 I agree. But I would prefer to clear the deck.
20:09:59 <lewyssmith> -6
20:10:13 <wilcal> There's been lots of discussion over this
20:10:14 <tmb> yeah, there is always security issues... they are just not found yet...
20:10:23 <wilcal> put a fork in it
20:10:31 <lewyssmith> kekePower: Is taht not exactly what QA is?
20:10:50 <brian_> yes, thus kernel, software, driver patches that come out continuously, that will stop with mga5, unless a community group take sit
20:10:55 <kekePower> lewyssmith: thinking more of a group outside of mga, to free QA resources
20:11:22 <brian_> :kekePower - you're also dealing with an unsupported KDE
20:11:32 <lewyssmith> If such a group exists, they should be in QA, surely.
20:11:44 <DavidWHodgins> Back
20:11:53 <tmb> kekePower, if there is such a "group" outside mga wanting to extend support... thet better show up in QA
20:12:03 <lewyssmith> Snap!
20:12:05 <wilcal> We're talking about M5.1 EOL
20:12:26 <wilcal> Probably no Council meeting next Tues
20:12:27 <tmb> and we are a "community driven project" so ...
20:12:34 <DavidWHodgins> While I don't expect any updates after newyears, as usual, we will be flexible
20:13:01 <wilcal> If there is some horrible security thingy
20:13:09 <lewyssmith> In the past, the old release has disappeared from the updates list & process.
20:13:17 <DavidWHodgins> The primary reason for an exception will be anything the fixes problems with the upgrade process
20:13:47 <brian_> I have an insanely dangerous suggestion. for KDE/plasma upgrades
20:14:02 <DavidWHodgins> It auto disappears from the madb list when there are no updates for that release
20:14:18 <lewyssmith> brian_: Please say.
20:14:38 <tmb> switch to Gnome:)
20:14:44 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins: Ah. OK.
20:14:45 <DavidWHodgins> If an update assigned to qa were mistakenly marked as Mageia 4, then Mageia 4 would re-appear in the list.
20:14:52 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: :-)
20:15:13 <brian_> as part of the upgrade (tell them there are parameter conflicts between kde/plasma), do they want a clean-install?
20:15:34 <DavidWHodgins> For me, the main problem was the switch from a proprietary video driver (fglrx) to an open source one (ati).
20:15:35 <brian_> next - move the old parameters out of .cache & etc and Plasma starts with fresh params.
20:16:00 <brian_> :DWH that is always ... yeah
20:16:14 <DavidWHodgins> brian_: Upgrade works ok, it's just upgrade while running that is the problem
20:16:14 <brian_> <<if that was the issue>>
20:16:43 <brian_> ok - well, there was the insane idea that won't work   ;-)
20:16:47 <DavidWHodgins> It's the video becoming unreadable in the middle of the upgrade
20:17:28 <lewyssmith> How do you 'enable on-line repos' for the on-line upgrade? Will they not already be active?
20:17:29 <DavidWHodgins> Interrupting the upgrade to reboot may end up with a broken, non-bootable system
20:18:19 <tmb> rindolf, we basically already have that as we have the 4.14.8-rc1 in current build
20:18:56 <brian_> I thought we upgraded from classics using those video drivers.
20:19:02 <lewyssmith> Encourage use of the Classic ISO with suitable instructions? That should work.
20:19:03 <brian_> that's my approach
20:19:27 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/How_to_choose_the_right_Mageia_upgrade_method#How_to_do_a_simple_upgrade_in_text
20:19:28 <brian_> or take up drinking and do a fresh build
20:19:48 <brian_> the later my preference
20:19:57 <DavidWHodgins> I didn't use an iso
20:20:15 <wilcal> http://www.killdisk.com/ is my friend :-))
20:20:16 <[mbot> [ How to erase hard drive by Active@ KillDisk? Disk Eraser, Disk Wiper, Disk Format & Disk Sanitizer. ]
20:20:39 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Do you get a commission, Bill?
20:20:45 <DavidWHodgins> brian_: The problems are not from upgrading using the iso. It's from upgrading using mgaapplet
20:20:47 <wilcal> :-))
20:21:30 <tmb> wilcal, just do a gdisk /dev/sda and then press x z y y          and you are all done...
20:21:45 <kekePower> or even easier, use a magnet
20:21:56 <brian_> lol I'm sure what that means but it sounds dangerous
20:22:15 <wilcal> a 1/4 drill bit through the drive pretty much erases it
20:22:18 <DavidWHodgins> For the kernels, I'll be doing my full set of tests on both releases, both arches, after the meeting. Lots of rebooting, so it gets tedious
20:22:47 <lewyssmith> 32-bit mostly, please.
20:23:15 <DavidWHodgins> I'll test both arches
20:23:18 <Benmc> sorry for the late arrival.
20:23:21 <DavidWHodgins> Every kernel
20:23:26 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa Benmc
20:23:34 <lewyssmith> Benmc: Welcome, Ben.
20:23:38 <tmb> and mga5 core kernel is already validated... I'm in the process of writing its advisory
20:23:58 <Benmc> David, Lewis, all. hi
20:24:14 <lewyssmith> tmb: Thanks Thomas. I was going to ask about those - there are several pending.
20:24:52 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. So just the other kernels that need testing. I'll experiment with setting the dirty ratio lower this time to see if that fixes my caching problem
20:24:56 <kekePower> I'm keeping up with the 4.9 kernel on my main system
20:25:21 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Testing updates - Any other difficulties, problems, issues?
20:25:35 <DavidWHodgins> Oops. Not a chair. :-)
20:25:46 <lewyssmith> #topic * Testing updates - Any other difficulties, problems, issues?
20:25:48 <tmb> lewyssmith, yeah, I will fix advisorie for all my reported update requests today and tomorrow (I've just started my vacation from dayjob$)
20:25:55 <wilcal> #chair DavidWHodgins
20:25:55 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins lewyssmith wilcal
20:26:01 <Benmc> brian-_: voercoming the David mentioned unreadable text during upgrading an active Mga5 can be done if you install manually the problematic .rpm. I will dig around for it and let you know
20:26:19 <wilcal> i'd like to talk about the conflict between the kernel and Vbox updates
20:26:43 <lewyssmith> I have just circulated a post about updates. Over to you, Bill re VBox.
20:27:01 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22166
20:27:03 <[mbot> [ 22166 – Update request: kernel 4.14 ]
20:27:16 <wilcal> All in the notes
20:27:31 <wilcal> tmb probably can shed some light on this
20:27:43 <lewyssmith> What about https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22147 also?
20:27:45 <[mbot> [ 22147 – Update request: virtualbox 5.2.2 ]
20:27:55 <wilcal> updating a Vbox client with new kernel and it won't boot
20:28:24 <lewyssmith> What happens if you update VBox first?
20:28:43 <wilcal> have not done that
20:29:03 <wilcal> in the past we would do one or the other but not both at the same time
20:29:18 <rindolf> tmb: ah
20:29:20 <wilcal> so which comes first this time?
20:29:27 <DavidWHodgins> The tricky part about vbox/kernel updates has to do with the pre-compiled modules
20:29:39 <tmb> wilcal, as stated in kernel 4.14 update, we need to get virtualbox 5.2.2 (bug 22147) before I can rebuild the prebuilt kmods... as we need to provide the virtualbox kmods for 4.9 series kernel too in order to keep sane environments....
20:29:40 <DavidWHodgins> If using the dkms modules, there is no problem
20:29:41 <[mbot> Bug: ['Update request: virtualbox 5.2.2', 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22147
20:29:41 <lewyssmith> True.
20:30:15 <DavidWHodgins> If using the the pre-compiled ones, you have to wait for them to be available before installing the new kernel or vb will not work
20:30:39 <lewyssmith> Does this mean we *should* clear the VBox update first?
20:30:51 <tmb> and the reason for vbox 5.2 landing at the same time as the 4.14 kernel is because we need the new vbox to support 4.14 seriess kernels...
20:31:25 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Doesn't really matter. tmb pushes the kernel and vb updates, and waits till they are both validated.
20:31:34 <tmb> from bug 22147: "Note to testers, this one needs to go out before we roll out kernel 4.14 series"
20:31:36 <[mbot> Bug: ['Update request: virtualbox 5.2.2', 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22147
20:32:42 <wilcal> That looked ok to me
20:33:15 <DavidWHodgins> Just remember that with kernel updates, they can't be fully tested or validated till the pre-build modules that accompany it are available too
20:33:17 <tmb> meaning in order to properly test kernel 4.14 under vbox on mga6, the user should already be running virtualbox 5.2.2
20:33:49 <lewyssmith> So our VBox specialists (not in the process of moving) need to get on with that one.
20:34:01 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:34:44 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Thanks for the massive work clearing up updates and advisories
20:34:45 <tmb> note that the same vbox build is running in cauldron too without issues... so I consider it somewhat already tested... but qa has final say...
20:35:09 <wilcal> I didn't have any problem with it
20:35:47 <Bequimao> btw no problem with kvm/qemu.
20:36:24 <lewyssmith> wilcal: We only really need a 64-bit OK, given the inadvisability of running it on 32-bit.
20:36:25 <brian_> I'll update my 32-bit host for vbox over the holiday and see what happens.  :-)
20:36:28 <tmb> note that virtualbox vill get easier with newer kernels...
20:36:33 <DavidWHodgins> The biggest problem I see with the kernel updates is with the video drivers, especially the nvidia ones. We need people with the right hardware to test those
20:36:36 <wilcal> Yup
20:36:57 <lewyssmith> -2 Already begged.
20:37:00 <brian_> I could try 304 with this clunker
20:37:06 <brian_> already did the driver update
20:37:22 <kekePower> mga6/x86_64 with nvidia has worked fine for me with 384
20:37:45 <lewyssmith> Can you comment the bug?
20:37:50 <brian_> I haven't upgraded the Kernel though, do I need to apply all fixes before?
20:38:01 <brian_> meaning all of hte driver things sitting out there?
20:38:12 <kekePower> lewyssmith: what's the bug number?
20:38:26 <DavidWHodgins> brian_: Please do. Don't forget to add the MGA6-64-OK whiteboard entry, if it's ok
20:38:40 <tmb> in 4.14 there is  vboxvideo in staging (currently disabled), in 4.15/4.16 the rest of vbox guest additions will /should land, so only the kernel driver (dkms-virtualbox) will need to built... and x11-driver-vboxvideo is now added to upstream xorg.. so it should work very nice on mga7
20:39:01 <brian_> ok
20:39:10 <lewyssmith> kekePower: Sorry: 304 or 340.
20:39:21 <kekePower> lewyssmith: OK
20:39:31 <brian_> I may only have 304 running on 32-bit so could only that
20:39:50 <lewyssmith> Everything helps!
20:39:50 <DavidWHodgins> brian_: See http://madb.mageia.org/tools/updates
20:39:53 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Current Update candidates ]
20:40:21 <lewyssmith> brian_: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22149
20:40:23 <[mbot> [ 22149 – update request nvida304 304.137 ]
20:40:38 <brian_> did that one already for 32bit I think
20:40:44 <brian_> should have my note out there
20:40:56 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, and add the whiteboard entry
20:41:16 <brian_> ok - was leaving that to leads, but will do
20:41:33 <lewyssmith> Saw your note.
20:42:01 <DavidWHodgins> I'll send a note to the ml after the meeting, reminding every one to add the mga6-64-ok or appropriate entry to the whiteboard, if the tests are ok
20:42:57 <DavidWHodgins> For the kernels, glibc, etc., we want a variety of people to test. For things that require specific hardware, one tester is enough
20:43:49 <brian_> ok
20:45:23 <DavidWHodgins> For glibc, it's basically, "Does the system boot?" :-)
20:45:48 <brian_> understood, that just arrived didn't it?
20:45:57 <DavidWHodgins> For the shadow-utils update, I don't see a poc, so its just install, logout/in.
20:46:05 <DavidWHodgins> brian_: Yes
20:46:28 <lewyssmith> How do we get Sysadmins to push the huge list of validated updates?
20:47:03 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Just ask on the sysadmin ml, or in #mageia-sysadm
20:47:16 <wilcal> We're definitely in the Holiday season
20:47:19 <DavidWHodgins> Or wait a few days. :-)
20:47:39 <lewyssmith> The last already done...
20:48:10 <DavidWHodgins> Note updates were pushed a couple of hours ago, so the list has cleaned up.
20:48:23 <brian_> ah - that explains the stack this machine just got
20:49:06 <lewyssmith> -2 So I see - just updated the page!
20:49:19 <tmb> yeah, I usually try to check that list atleast every day or so to flush it out... but I've been tired lately so I've let it slip a little...
20:49:33 <DavidWHodgins> heimdal is another version of kerberos. The procedure for testing is very similar to the one for krb5
20:49:50 <lewyssmith> Your speciality.
20:50:26 <brian_> have a great Christmas everyone.  Gotta drop
20:50:28 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. I'll clone the krb5 script and wiki page and update it for heimdal
20:50:34 <wilcal> later brian
20:50:36 <DavidWHodgins> brian_: You too
20:50:47 <lewyssmith> brian_: Season's greetings.
20:51:05 <DavidWHodgins> For openafs, check the older reports.
20:51:32 <DavidWHodgins> libraw is easy. just a couple of commands to run to test converting images
20:51:49 <lewyssmith> If you have a raw one...
20:52:13 <tmb> and possibly ping the openafs users... iirc there was some real user cc on earlier reports
20:52:56 <DavidWHodgins> Good point. Checked the older bug reports to find out who is actually using it
20:54:23 <DavidWHodgins> For webit2, also check the old reports. IIRC it's used by eclipse, but would have to check to see how to test it
20:54:23 <tmb> I dont think there is many users of it ... so if nothing else they will show up when we puh the 4.14 kernel :)
20:54:32 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:55:15 <DavidWHodgins> for pdns, it's pretty easy to test. Similar to bind.
20:55:58 <DavidWHodgins> Now that I've tested the upgrade of my main install, I can more easily test vb under a Mageia 6 host. :-)
20:56:36 <tmb> note that if you currently comment on bugzilla you might get an error about "relay access denied" wich is due to pterjan currently switching primanr mx and fixing the fallout :)  .... however the comments will get added to the bug report
20:56:41 <DavidWHodgins> for btrfs-progs and xfsprogs, if not using them on your system, they are easy to test under vb
20:57:11 <DavidWHodgins> Is that just a matter of restarting bugzilla after the switch?
20:57:32 <DavidWHodgins> Or rather apache, on that host?
20:58:07 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, nope, it should sort out itself when postfix accepts the new acls on sucuk
20:58:16 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Ok
20:58:44 <DavidWHodgins> Do the mail msgs still get sent out eventually, or will they be dropped?
20:59:22 <DavidWHodgins> Guess it doesn't matter. Just wait an hour or so before commenting on any bugs. :-)
20:59:41 <lewyssmith> Easy: bedtime!
20:59:46 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
21:01:14 <lewyssmith> AOB now?
21:01:26 <DavidWHodgins> For xtables-addons, it's additions to the kernel networking, so reboot and ensure networking still works
21:01:35 <DavidWHodgins> AOB?
21:01:48 <lewyssmith> Any Other Business = anything else
21:01:59 <lewyssmith> (topic)
21:02:18 <wilcal> #topic Anything else?
21:02:22 <DavidWHodgins> Yeah. The rest of the updates, have a look at. Nother overly difficicult there.
21:02:37 <DavidWHodgins> s /Nother/Nothing/
21:02:40 <wilcal> So for the last week or so I've been off and on
21:02:53 <lewyssmith> Are you moved yet, Bill?
21:02:59 <wilcal> for the next 4-weeks or so I'll be back on line
21:03:20 <wilcal> 3rd week of Jan I am moving from Surf City USA San Diego
21:03:33 <wilcal> To Sin City USA Las Vegas NV
21:03:43 <wilcal> Actually North Las Vegas
21:03:49 <lewyssmith> So far?
21:04:00 <wilcal> 335 miles to my new place
21:04:15 <wilcal> California has become unlivable, almost
21:04:16 <DavidWHodgins> Just a small jump across the mountains. :-)
21:04:37 <wilcal> Yup about a 6-hour drive across the desert
21:04:49 <wilcal> people do it all the time here
21:04:59 <DavidWHodgins> Which pass through the rockies?
21:05:17 <wilcal> Not really a pass just high desert
21:05:30 <wilcal> Highest point is about 4100ft
21:05:50 <wilcal> Always something to do in LV
21:06:08 <lewyssmith> Except surfing...
21:06:16 <wilcal> Over the years I've been there at least a couple dozen times
21:06:22 <wilcal> all trade shows
21:06:53 <wilcal> Anyway about 1/2 the cost of living then California
21:07:01 <wilcal> maybe even less then that
21:07:17 <brian_> :-)
21:07:24 <wilcal> Actaully there are no jobs there except for the obvious
21:07:44 <wilcal> It's called the "Hospitaltiy" industry
21:08:06 <DavidWHodgins> Pretty much a retirement community then?
21:08:08 <wilcal> so I'll keep everyone up to date
21:08:17 <wilcal> You hit it right on the head David
21:08:37 <wilcal> NV has a plan to lure retirees to NV like myself
21:08:51 <lewyssmith> Well, I wish a Good Yule to everyone. And thank you for coming.
21:08:58 <wilcal> stable living expenses no state income tax affordable housing
21:09:12 <wilcal> I'm done too
21:09:21 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks everyone
21:09:27 <wilcal> Thank you david
21:09:32 <DavidWHodgins> Have a great Christmas
21:09:36 <wilcal> bye all
21:09:44 <DavidWHodgins> See you all next week
21:09:48 <wilcal> I'll count it down
21:09:52 <DavidWHodgins> Go for it
21:10:02 <wilcal> T-5
21:10:07 <wilcal> T-4
21:10:10 <wilcal> T-3
21:10:14 <wilcal> T-2
21:10:17 <wilcal> T-1
21:10:20 <wilcal> #endmeeting