19:05:54 <wilcal> #startmeeting 19:05:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Oct 5 19:05:54 2017 UTC. The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:05:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:05:56 <lewyssmith> Off we go, Bill. In your capable hands. 19:06:07 <wilcal> #chair lewyssmith 19:06:07 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal 19:06:15 <wilcal> here we are again. 19:06:29 <wilcal> #topic Who's new? 19:06:37 <wilcal> Anyone new here today? 19:07:10 <lewyssmith> [Stony silence] 19:07:24 <kekePower> nobody wants to admit it... 19:07:36 <Bequimao> who is kekePower? 19:07:50 <kekePower> I've been here a few times, so I'm not totally new 19:08:10 <wilcal> feel free to join anytime 19:08:13 <kekePower> Stig on the mailinglists 19:08:19 <lewyssmith> Ah! 19:08:40 <Bequimao> thanks 19:08:43 <kekePower> np 19:08:51 <wilcal> Somewhat not QA stuff but need to talk about it 19:08:53 <lewyssmith> Next topic please, Bill. 19:08:54 <wilcal> #topic M7 structure proposals 19:09:20 <wilcal> There's been a lot of give and take over M7 structure in the last week and council 19:09:45 <wilcal> manatools and urpmi replacement 19:09:54 <wilcal> just be aware that is all going on 19:10:01 <lewyssmith> What is the latter? 19:10:29 <wilcal> tmb probably understands that way better then me 19:10:41 <kekePower> IMHO, dnf feels slower than urpm which feels slower than apt 19:10:47 <tarazed_> These are defaults, right? 19:10:51 <wilcal> It's in the developers room now 19:11:27 <lewyssmith> What does DNF stand for? 19:11:39 <kekePower> Did Not Finish 19:11:45 <Bequimao> I always distrusted urpmi, only using dnf now. 19:11:46 <bri_an> Don't Know Frankly 19:11:48 <wilcal> thanks for explaining keke 19:12:01 <wilcal> Why Beq? 19:12:06 <tmb> dnf is Dandified Yum 19:12:12 <wilcal> what's your reason for doing that 19:12:29 <lewyssmith> Bequimao, Why distrust urpmi? 19:13:05 <wilcal> and that's been my request to document why we would make these changes 19:13:08 <kekePower> I think the work done with the urpm wrapper for dnf may work, but again, urpm, for me, is the heart of MGA 19:13:33 <Bequimao> Having great transactions, more than >500 packages, I had to restart urpmi up to 3 times. 19:13:38 <wilcal> It would certainly be a character change for Mageia 19:14:09 <lewyssmith> I seem to recall that Fedora uses it already as default. 19:14:11 <kekePower> one question that keeps coming up is: Does MGA _have_ to be like Fedora? 19:14:29 <lewyssmith> No; but it is a powerful reference. 19:14:32 <wilcal> And I think if anything that would be motvation for Mageia to consider it lewys 19:15:46 <kekePower> I'm guessing dnf is more technical and up-to-date compared to urpm and that's the reason you're discussing this now 19:15:52 <lewyssmith> I personally do not mind what happens, so long as... 19:15:59 <lewyssmith> 1) It is decided. 19:16:06 <lewyssmith> 2) It gets done. 19:16:35 <lewyssmith> And for M7, the sooner the better, or we will have another 2y slog on our hands. 19:16:35 <tmb> otoh ripping out something thats part of heart and soul of Mageia and it's predecessors wont go down quietly in mgageia community, we might/will loose some users 19:17:09 <Bequimao> lewyssmith: any link 19:17:16 <wilcal> I'm in favor of better for a major component of Mageia. But if we change 2 or 3 components the testing off M7 will be a challange 19:17:17 <bri_an> I think it depends on transparency. If the front-end masks the back-end work, it will not be felt 19:17:24 <lewyssmith> tmb, I agree. If it works don't fix it. 19:17:52 <bri_an> I'm not a 100%, but I bet most users just use the front-end for udpates and installes 19:17:53 <lewyssmith> Bequimao, Sorry, not with you about link. 19:18:29 <bri_an> but the simplicity of administration and the security that is built in needs to be easy and inplace as it is today 19:18:31 <kekePower> I, personally, prefer the command line 19:18:47 <wilcal> is the manatools and dnf the same thing? 19:18:47 <bri_an> I go back and forth, but prefer lazy gui 19:18:48 <kekePower> but guess that's the minority of us 19:19:05 <lewyssmith> Most users prefer GUI. 19:19:27 <lewyssmith> wilcal, Manatolls is MCC repalcement. 19:19:34 <bri_an> else we'd have command line systems instead of these pretty things 19:19:35 <kekePower> I think the mana ui looks great 19:19:55 <tmb> and powerusers use cli tools as they are faster than any gui :) 19:19:59 <bri_an> I'll trust yo on that. D 19:20:01 <Bequimao> in the actual media both urpmi and dnf are active. That needs a decision. 19:20:25 <wilcal> So there you go. Two major components 19:20:44 <kekePower> I use dnf to update Opera and there are 3-4-5 transactions just for this update 19:20:44 <wilcal> 1 + 1 = 3 in complexity 19:21:08 <lewyssmith> kekePower, Which Opera? 19:21:30 <kekePower> lewyssmith: are you asking which version? 19:21:35 <lewyssmith> Yes. 19:22:06 <wilcal> fwiw watching NIR vs GER as I'm doing this :-) 19:22:39 <kekePower> at the moment I have 48.0.2685.35 and 50.0.2729.0 installed 19:23:07 <lewyssmith> The last I saw was 17. And dropped it. 19:23:41 <kekePower> I like the Whatsapp integration in opera-developer 19:24:09 <lewyssmith> But it is called Chropera, badge-engineered Chromium. 19:24:49 <kekePower> I normally use Firefox, but try Opera and Vivaldi now and then 19:24:59 <marja> kekePower: i must misunderstand you, here dnf uses only one transaction in which all updates, even if there are hundreds of them, get done 19:25:13 <lewyssmith> Vivaldi, alas, is also based on Chromium. But morte serious. 19:25:24 <kekePower> Chrome was too much of a memory hog for me 19:25:51 <lewyssmith> Every keystroke -> Google? 19:26:28 <lewyssmith> But this is wandering... 19:26:32 <wilcal> Anyway I just wanted to bring this up here as there are lots of things in motion for M7 19:26:39 <bri_an> brb 19:26:47 <wilcal> lets move on 19:26:49 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates & Backports 19:27:02 <wilcal> Some issues here 19:27:16 <wilcal> pjproject and db 19:27:23 <Bequimao> More important, using dnf and urpmi there is no mutual lock 19:27:34 <wilcal> been hanging around David said he wanted to test them or was going to 19:27:36 <kekePower> ahh... had an issue with the kernel update 19:27:39 <lewyssmith> I think we must let these 2 out, both have one good OK. 19:27:59 <wilcal> should we let those alone for another week of make sure they install and update cleanly 19:27:59 <kekePower> installed 4.12.4 from updates_testing and then urpm wouldn't install 4.9.52 when it was released 19:28:11 <kekePower> had to do it manually 19:28:12 <lewyssmith> Dave forgot what he was going to look at; I did remind him. 19:28:25 <wikigazer> fwiw: urpmi never let me down 19:28:36 <wilcal> so we'll leave those to next week 19:28:45 <lewyssmith> wilcal, I will do the 'clean update' thing. 19:28:59 <wilcal> k 19:29:10 <wilcal> I'm asking around for sane testing of 19:29:12 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21780 19:29:14 <[mbot> [ 21780 – openvpn new security issue CVE-2017-12166 ] 19:29:27 <bri_an> fun openvpn 19:29:29 <wilcal> I'd like to learn how to use that but not start another career 19:29:34 <lewyssmith> I think we just clean-update that too. 19:29:39 <kekePower> wilcal: I hear you 19:29:50 <kekePower> it's almost impossible to set up 19:29:57 <bri_an> I run some basic tests. I've been meaning to delve more deeply into openvpn, just not th etime right now 19:30:03 <wilcal> is there a simple procedure we can author to test and learn how to use it 19:30:05 <lewyssmith> kekePower, Stig, if you can do something with it - please do! 19:30:27 <wilcal> I'll tinker with it for another week to see if I/we can come up with something 19:30:38 <bri_an> You can actually set up a client and server on the same machine and have htem chat 19:30:41 <wilcal> document the heck out of what you do 19:30:43 <kekePower> lewyssmith: I tried a few months ago, but ended up with a very basic encryption setting as nothing else would work 19:30:44 <bri_an> that's what I've done before 19:30:58 * wikigazer uses openvpn, I will have a look 19:31:00 <lewyssmith> bri_an, Please document how in the bug, perhaps. 19:31:10 <wilcal> please put all that into the bug so others who have no idea what they're doing can follow you 19:31:20 <bri_an> did before, search on openvpn patches 19:31:39 <wilcal> could you put the link in this bug please 19:31:42 <bri_an> when I get to it, I'll do it again 19:31:49 <bri_an> yes 19:32:27 <wilcal> I've had a ton of fun with: 19:32:28 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21762 19:32:30 <[mbot> [ 21762 – kaffeine uses 100% CPU after changing channels ] 19:32:56 <wilcal> Bought a USB DTV tuner and got it to work on M6 19:32:58 <lewyssmith> I am always impressed how QA really tries updates if we can. 19:33:28 <wilcal> Can watch 9 DTV stations on my M6 workstations and this laptop :-)) 19:33:40 <stratocaster7> openvpn - maybe https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20845#c4 for Brian's notes 19:33:42 <[mbot> [ 20845 – openvpn new security issues CVE-2017-7478 and CVE-2017-7479 ] 19:34:08 <lewyssmith> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21742 is a real teaser. 19:34:10 <[mbot> [ 21742 – Fix acme to not require perl(Data::Dumper) and challenge pool in rare case where letsencrypt verification is delayed ] 19:34:36 <wilcal> can ghostscript be pushed on? 19:34:49 <lewyssmith> I could not understand the procedure at all. 19:35:21 <lewyssmith> wilcal, Gostscript has been. 19:35:21 <bri_an> posted on openvpn for mga5 19:35:30 <tarazed_> wilcal: Yes, should think so 19:36:16 <wilcal> poppler can be pushed I think 19:36:32 <lewyssmith> Will do - the advisory also. 19:36:53 <wilcal> tmb: are there kernels in the pipe? 19:37:07 <bri_an> dnsmasq - I'll try mga 6 later tonight 19:37:10 <kekePower> I see 4.9.53 was just released 19:37:15 <lewyssmith> Tempting the Devil... 19:37:23 <wilcal> I'm gonna watch the ball game today and test clam on the side 19:37:33 <wilcal> should be through that end of day 19:37:43 <lewyssmith> The worst part is the database download. 19:37:46 <bri_an> clamscan ! 19:37:56 <wilcal> Yup 19:38:22 <bri_an> :wilcal - yeah my Card's are out of it 19:38:46 <lewyssmith> Does anyone knoow why updates are not going out? 19:38:51 <tmb> wilcal, yes, but not the ones currently in testing ... there are more security fixes coming so it make take a few days before I assign new kernels for testing 19:39:08 <tmb> lewyssmith, what do you mean ? 19:39:09 <bri_an> ok - we'll wait for kernel fixes 19:39:13 <wilcal> open weekend for me 19:39:31 <lewyssmith> tmb, There is a pile validated etc waiting to diasapperar. 19:39:37 <wilcal> Anything else on updates other then work them 19:40:11 <tmb> lewyssmith, ah, seems no-one has been monitoring the queue :/ ... I'll flush them out 19:40:18 <kekePower> tmb: When I installed 4.9.52, there was a require for 4.9.50 as well. 19:40:38 <kekePower> 4.9.52-desktop 19:40:40 <bri_an> dnsmasq - would you consider that urgent? 19:40:55 <tmb> dnsmasq is urgent, yes 19:41:10 <bri_an> ok - will do mga6 tonight 19:41:15 <bri_an> mga5 is ready I think 19:41:44 <lewyssmith> Yes. I need to cleare that too. 19:42:20 <wilcal> ok lets move on 19:42:21 <wilcal> #topic Anything else? 19:42:44 <bri_an> I have something - We need to blog about MGA5 a lot. It's about 25 days from retirement 19:42:59 <wilcal> Get'n close 19:43:07 <wilcal> on the forum too 19:43:21 <bri_an> We don't want ot surprise people. So, I don't know who does blog, but maybe .... 19:43:25 <wilcal> I'll put something on the forums 19:43:44 <lewyssmith> I think it is urgent for the council to decide ASAP whatever needs to be decided for M7. 19:43:50 <bri_an> thx - I'm fearful of lots of kickback around Oct. 30 19:44:17 <wilcal> As long as it's stable, which it is, EOL is almost an advantage 19:44:31 <wilcal> M5 is a very good platform 19:44:45 <bri_an> it is, but once we stop patching ... it isn't 19:45:04 <wilcal> anything else 19:45:17 <kekePower> thanks for all your awesome work 19:45:27 <lewyssmith> I wonder how many people are actually affected by security scares, which are mostly very academic. 19:45:40 <wilcal> We are at countdown time 19:45:50 <bri_an> about 8% I think 19:45:50 <wilcal> T-5 19:45:56 <wilcal> Thanks all for being here 19:46:02 <wilcal> T-4 19:46:03 <bri_an> bye all - thanks 19:46:06 <lewyssmith> Thanks for comming, & to Bill for chairing. 19:46:10 <wilcal> crisp clean meeting 19:46:11 <lewyssmith> Goodbye all. 19:46:14 <tarazed_> Goodnight everybody. 19:46:14 <wilcal> T-3 19:46:18 <wilcal> bye all 19:46:21 <wilcal> T-2 19:46:28 <wilcal> T-1 19:46:32 <wilcal> #endmeeting