19:05:54 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:05:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Oct  5 19:05:54 2017 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:05:54 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:05:56 <lewyssmith> Off we go, Bill. In your capable hands.
19:06:07 <wilcal> #chair lewyssmith
19:06:07 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal
19:06:15 <wilcal> here we are again.
19:06:29 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
19:06:37 <wilcal> Anyone new here today?
19:07:10 <lewyssmith> [Stony silence]
19:07:24 <kekePower> nobody wants to admit it...
19:07:36 <Bequimao> who is kekePower?
19:07:50 <kekePower> I've been here a few times, so I'm not totally new
19:08:10 <wilcal> feel free to join anytime
19:08:13 <kekePower> Stig on the mailinglists
19:08:19 <lewyssmith> Ah!
19:08:40 <Bequimao> thanks
19:08:43 <kekePower> np
19:08:51 <wilcal> Somewhat not QA stuff but need to talk about it
19:08:53 <lewyssmith> Next topic please, Bill.
19:08:54 <wilcal> #topic M7 structure proposals
19:09:20 <wilcal> There's been a lot of give and take over M7 structure in the last week and council
19:09:45 <wilcal> manatools and urpmi replacement
19:09:54 <wilcal> just be aware that is all going on
19:10:01 <lewyssmith> What is the latter?
19:10:29 <wilcal> tmb probably understands that way better then me
19:10:41 <kekePower> IMHO, dnf feels slower than urpm which feels slower than apt
19:10:47 <tarazed_> These are defaults, right?
19:10:51 <wilcal> It's in the developers room now
19:11:27 <lewyssmith> What does DNF stand for?
19:11:39 <kekePower> Did Not Finish
19:11:45 <Bequimao> I always distrusted urpmi, only using dnf now.
19:11:46 <bri_an> Don't Know Frankly
19:11:48 <wilcal> thanks for explaining keke
19:12:01 <wilcal> Why Beq?
19:12:06 <tmb> dnf is Dandified Yum
19:12:12 <wilcal> what's your reason for doing that
19:12:29 <lewyssmith> Bequimao, Why distrust urpmi?
19:13:05 <wilcal> and that's been my request to document why we would make these changes
19:13:08 <kekePower> I think the work done with the urpm wrapper for dnf may work, but again, urpm, for me, is the heart of MGA
19:13:33 <Bequimao> Having great transactions, more than >500 packages, I had to restart urpmi up to 3 times.
19:13:38 <wilcal> It would certainly be a character change for Mageia
19:14:09 <lewyssmith> I seem to recall that Fedora uses it already as default.
19:14:11 <kekePower> one question that keeps coming up is: Does MGA _have_ to be like Fedora?
19:14:29 <lewyssmith> No; but it is a powerful reference.
19:14:32 <wilcal> And I think if anything that would be motvation for Mageia to consider it lewys
19:15:46 <kekePower> I'm guessing dnf is more technical and up-to-date compared to urpm and that's the reason you're discussing this now
19:15:52 <lewyssmith> I personally do not mind what happens, so long as...
19:15:59 <lewyssmith> 1) It is decided.
19:16:06 <lewyssmith> 2) It gets done.
19:16:35 <lewyssmith> And for M7, the sooner the better, or we will have another 2y slog on our hands.
19:16:35 <tmb> otoh ripping out something thats part of heart and soul of Mageia and it's predecessors wont go down quietly in mgageia community, we might/will loose some users
19:17:09 <Bequimao> lewyssmith: any link
19:17:16 <wilcal> I'm in favor of better for a major component of Mageia. But if we change 2 or 3 components the testing off M7 will be a challange
19:17:17 <bri_an> I think it depends on transparency.  If the front-end masks the back-end work, it will not be felt
19:17:24 <lewyssmith> tmb, I agree. If it works don't fix it.
19:17:52 <bri_an> I'm not a 100%, but I bet most users just use the front-end for udpates and installes
19:17:53 <lewyssmith> Bequimao, Sorry, not with you about link.
19:18:29 <bri_an> but the simplicity of administration and the security that is built in needs to be easy and inplace as it is today
19:18:31 <kekePower> I, personally, prefer the command line
19:18:47 <wilcal> is the manatools and dnf the same thing?
19:18:47 <bri_an> I go back and forth, but prefer lazy gui
19:18:48 <kekePower> but guess that's the minority of us
19:19:05 <lewyssmith> Most users prefer GUI.
19:19:27 <lewyssmith> wilcal, Manatolls is MCC repalcement.
19:19:34 <bri_an> else we'd have command line systems instead of these pretty things
19:19:35 <kekePower> I think the mana ui looks great
19:19:55 <tmb> and powerusers use cli tools as they are faster than any gui :)
19:19:59 <bri_an> I'll trust yo on that.  D
19:20:01 <Bequimao> in the actual media both urpmi and dnf are active. That needs a decision.
19:20:25 <wilcal> So there you go. Two major components
19:20:44 <kekePower> I use dnf to update Opera and there are 3-4-5 transactions just for this update
19:20:44 <wilcal> 1 + 1 = 3 in complexity
19:21:08 <lewyssmith> kekePower, Which Opera?
19:21:30 <kekePower> lewyssmith: are you asking which version?
19:21:35 <lewyssmith> Yes.
19:22:06 <wilcal> fwiw watching NIR vs GER as I'm doing this :-)
19:22:39 <kekePower> at the moment I have 48.0.2685.35 and 50.0.2729.0 installed
19:23:07 <lewyssmith> The last I saw was 17. And dropped it.
19:23:41 <kekePower> I like the Whatsapp integration in opera-developer
19:24:09 <lewyssmith> But it is called Chropera, badge-engineered Chromium.
19:24:49 <kekePower> I normally use Firefox, but try Opera and Vivaldi now and then
19:24:59 <marja> kekePower: i must misunderstand you, here dnf uses only one transaction in which all updates, even if there are hundreds of them, get done
19:25:13 <lewyssmith> Vivaldi, alas, is also based on Chromium. But morte serious.
19:25:24 <kekePower> Chrome was too much of a memory hog for me
19:25:51 <lewyssmith> Every keystroke -> Google?
19:26:28 <lewyssmith> But this is wandering...
19:26:32 <wilcal> Anyway I just wanted to bring this up here as there are lots of things in motion for M7
19:26:39 <bri_an> brb
19:26:47 <wilcal> lets move on
19:26:49 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates & Backports
19:27:02 <wilcal> Some issues here
19:27:16 <wilcal> pjproject and db
19:27:23 <Bequimao> More important, using dnf and urpmi there is no mutual lock
19:27:34 <wilcal> been hanging around David said he wanted to test them or was going to
19:27:36 <kekePower> ahh... had an issue with the kernel update
19:27:39 <lewyssmith> I think we must let these 2 out, both have one good OK.
19:27:59 <wilcal> should we let those alone for another week of make sure they install and update cleanly
19:27:59 <kekePower> installed 4.12.4 from updates_testing and then urpm wouldn't install 4.9.52 when it was released
19:28:11 <kekePower> had to do it manually
19:28:12 <lewyssmith> Dave forgot what he was going to look at; I did remind him.
19:28:25 <wikigazer> fwiw: urpmi never let me down
19:28:36 <wilcal> so we'll leave those to next week
19:28:45 <lewyssmith> wilcal, I will do the 'clean update' thing.
19:28:59 <wilcal> k
19:29:10 <wilcal> I'm asking around for sane testing of
19:29:12 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21780
19:29:14 <[mbot> [ 21780 – openvpn new security issue CVE-2017-12166 ]
19:29:27 <bri_an> fun openvpn
19:29:29 <wilcal> I'd like to learn how to use that but not start another career
19:29:34 <lewyssmith> I think we just clean-update that too.
19:29:39 <kekePower> wilcal: I hear you
19:29:50 <kekePower> it's almost impossible to set up
19:29:57 <bri_an> I run some basic tests.  I've been meaning to delve more deeply into openvpn, just not th etime right now
19:30:03 <wilcal> is there a simple procedure we can author to test and learn how to use it
19:30:05 <lewyssmith> kekePower, Stig, if you can do something with it - please do!
19:30:27 <wilcal> I'll tinker with it for another week to see if I/we can come up with something
19:30:38 <bri_an> You can actually set up a client and server on the same machine and have htem chat
19:30:41 <wilcal> document the heck out of what you do
19:30:43 <kekePower> lewyssmith: I tried a few months ago, but ended up with a very basic encryption setting as nothing else would work
19:30:44 <bri_an> that's what I've done before
19:30:58 * wikigazer uses openvpn, I will have a look
19:31:00 <lewyssmith> bri_an, Please document how in the bug, perhaps.
19:31:10 <wilcal> please put all that into the bug so others who have no idea what they're doing can follow you
19:31:20 <bri_an> did before, search on openvpn patches
19:31:39 <wilcal> could you put the link in this bug please
19:31:42 <bri_an> when I get to it, I'll do it again
19:31:49 <bri_an> yes
19:32:27 <wilcal> I've had a ton of fun with:
19:32:28 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21762
19:32:30 <[mbot> [ 21762 – kaffeine uses 100% CPU after changing channels ]
19:32:56 <wilcal> Bought a USB DTV tuner and got it to work on M6
19:32:58 <lewyssmith> I am always impressed how QA really tries updates if we can.
19:33:28 <wilcal> Can watch 9 DTV stations on my M6 workstations and this laptop :-))
19:33:40 <stratocaster7> openvpn - maybe https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20845#c4 for Brian's notes
19:33:42 <[mbot> [ 20845 – openvpn new security issues CVE-2017-7478 and CVE-2017-7479 ]
19:34:08 <lewyssmith> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21742 is a real teaser.
19:34:10 <[mbot> [ 21742 – Fix acme to not require perl(Data::Dumper) and challenge pool in rare case where letsencrypt verification is delayed ]
19:34:36 <wilcal> can ghostscript be pushed on?
19:34:49 <lewyssmith> I could not understand the procedure at all.
19:35:21 <lewyssmith> wilcal, Gostscript has been.
19:35:21 <bri_an> posted on openvpn for mga5
19:35:30 <tarazed_> wilcal: Yes, should think so
19:36:16 <wilcal> poppler can be pushed I think
19:36:32 <lewyssmith> Will do - the advisory also.
19:36:53 <wilcal> tmb: are there kernels in the pipe?
19:37:07 <bri_an> dnsmasq - I'll try mga 6 later tonight
19:37:10 <kekePower> I see 4.9.53 was just released
19:37:15 <lewyssmith> Tempting the Devil...
19:37:23 <wilcal> I'm gonna watch the ball game today and test clam on the side
19:37:33 <wilcal> should be through that end of day
19:37:43 <lewyssmith> The worst part is the database download.
19:37:46 <bri_an> clamscan !
19:37:56 <wilcal> Yup
19:38:22 <bri_an> :wilcal - yeah my Card's are out of it
19:38:46 <lewyssmith> Does anyone knoow why updates are not going out?
19:38:51 <tmb> wilcal, yes, but not the ones currently in testing ... there are more security fixes coming so it make take a few days before I assign new kernels for testing
19:39:08 <tmb> lewyssmith, what do you mean ?
19:39:09 <bri_an> ok - we'll wait for kernel fixes
19:39:13 <wilcal> open weekend for me
19:39:31 <lewyssmith> tmb, There is a pile validated etc waiting to diasapperar.
19:39:37 <wilcal> Anything else on updates other then work them
19:40:11 <tmb> lewyssmith, ah, seems no-one has been monitoring the queue :/  ... I'll flush them out
19:40:18 <kekePower> tmb: When I installed 4.9.52, there was a require for 4.9.50 as well.
19:40:38 <kekePower> 4.9.52-desktop
19:40:40 <bri_an> dnsmasq - would you consider that urgent?
19:40:55 <tmb> dnsmasq is urgent, yes
19:41:10 <bri_an> ok - will do mga6 tonight
19:41:15 <bri_an> mga5 is ready I think
19:41:44 <lewyssmith> Yes. I need to cleare that too.
19:42:20 <wilcal> ok lets move on
19:42:21 <wilcal> #topic Anything else?
19:42:44 <bri_an> I have something - We need to blog about MGA5 a lot.  It's about 25 days from retirement
19:42:59 <wilcal> Get'n close
19:43:07 <wilcal> on the forum too
19:43:21 <bri_an> We don't want ot surprise people.  So, I don't know who does blog, but maybe ....
19:43:25 <wilcal> I'll put something on the forums
19:43:44 <lewyssmith> I think it is urgent for the council to decide ASAP whatever needs to be decided for M7.
19:43:50 <bri_an> thx - I'm fearful of lots of kickback around Oct. 30
19:44:17 <wilcal> As long as it's stable, which it is, EOL is almost an advantage
19:44:31 <wilcal> M5 is a very good platform
19:44:45 <bri_an> it is, but once we stop patching ... it isn't
19:45:04 <wilcal> anything else
19:45:17 <kekePower> thanks for all your awesome work
19:45:27 <lewyssmith> I wonder how many people are actually affected by security scares, which are mostly very academic.
19:45:40 <wilcal> We are at countdown time
19:45:50 <bri_an> about 8% I think
19:45:50 <wilcal> T-5
19:45:56 <wilcal> Thanks all for being here
19:46:02 <wilcal> T-4
19:46:03 <bri_an> bye all - thanks
19:46:06 <lewyssmith> Thanks for comming, & to Bill for chairing.
19:46:10 <wilcal> crisp clean meeting
19:46:11 <lewyssmith> Goodbye all.
19:46:14 <tarazed_> Goodnight everybody.
19:46:14 <wilcal> T-3
19:46:18 <wilcal> bye all
19:46:21 <wilcal> T-2
19:46:28 <wilcal> T-1
19:46:32 <wilcal> #endmeeting