19:01:53 <DavidWHodgins> #startmeeting 19:01:53 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Sep 21 19:01:53 2017 UTC. The chair is DavidWHodgins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:01:53 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:02:00 <wilcal> Many thanks to all for the great work 19:02:13 <DavidWHodgins> #chair wilcal tarazed lewyssmith 19:02:13 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins lewyssmith tarazed wilcal 19:02:14 <wilcal> And David is going to take over I love it nice !!! 19:02:16 <lewyssmith> Yourself included. 19:02:33 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anyone new here today? 19:02:45 <lewyssmith> to Bill -8/ 19:02:55 <DavidWHodgins> Skimming the list, doesn't look like it. 19:03:06 <DavidWHodgins> #Topic Mageia 7 features 19:03:25 <wilcal> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Category:ProposedFeatureMageia7 19:03:35 <DavidWHodgins> #info https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Categore:ProposedFeatureMageia7 19:03:53 <wilcal> While there was a little discusson at the Council meeting on M6 it pretty much went on to M7 19:04:09 <DavidWHodgins> Council has started going over the proposed features 19:04:28 <DavidWHodgins> Still lot's of info needed and decisions to be made 19:04:44 <wilcal> I thought the biggest challange my be the replacement of MCC and or Grub 19:04:49 <tarazed> Hi Brian 19:04:54 <brian_> Hello All 19:05:07 <brian_> sorry I'm late 19:05:19 <wilcal> no prob 19:05:41 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, the two biggest are replacing urpmi with dnf as the default, and using manatools inplace of mcc 19:05:45 <tarazed> Replace MCC by what? 19:05:55 <DavidWHodgins> manatools 19:06:16 <tarazed> MCC gets a good press 19:06:22 <wilcal> lots of debate of manatools 19:06:41 <lewyssmith> Still to be finished. 19:06:45 <tony_> I gather there's been a lot of work on replacing MCC, but Why? I'm guessing it is to do with the work of packaging just for Mageia? A pity, as it 'just works' at present. 19:06:58 <DavidWHodgins> While both products are present in Mageia 6, using them as default in Mageia 7 will require a lot of work on the installers. 19:06:59 <wilcal> I guess M7 could feature either or 19:07:24 <lewyssmith> That caused confusion. 19:07:33 <brian_> is MCC written in Perl? 19:07:56 <Bequimao> when I tested manatools there where lots of functions missing. Is it better now? 19:08:19 <DavidWHodgins> The main reason for wanting to replace them is that they are very difficult to maintain. Think of it as a rewrite from scratch to improve maintainability. Also would be used by more distros, so hopefully more maintainers. 19:08:27 <hviaene> Idem Bequimao 19:08:42 <brian_> ok - so going to a shared tool 19:08:47 <wilcal> Are we alone using MCC structure? 19:09:02 <hviaene> PCLinuxOS 19:09:06 <DavidWHodgins> Along with a few other Mandriva spin offs, as I understand it. 19:09:14 <wilcal> Ya that came up 19:09:40 <tmb> it's not really used anywhere else... 19:09:42 <tony_> Trying to sell manatools for its command line interface is a big sell! 19:09:42 <wilcal> RedHat/Fedora use manatools? 19:09:53 <tmb> it's only dnfdragora that is 19:09:55 <DavidWHodgins> Anyway, that is still up in the air. Decision has not meen made yet. 19:10:29 <brian_> hey if it fast, flows well and does the job - have at it. Just my opin... 19:10:31 <DavidWHodgins> tony_: True. manatools can use ncurses, so can be used without X, where mcc requires X. 19:10:56 <hviaene> not true 19:11:10 <DavidWHodgins> hviaene: ? 19:11:19 <brian_> so - would it lighten the memory footprint and options loaded at start-up? 19:11:39 <hviaene> you can launch mcc in cli, it does not have all functions, but enough to be usefull 19:11:41 <brian_> without X. LIke with Wayland 19:11:58 <Bequimao> tony_: Yes it is like Yast of openSUSE. But very few users of openSUSE know that it works in a virtual console. 19:11:58 <hviaene> cli runlevel 3 19:12:25 <tmb> most of drakx can be run with ncurses, but the point of manatools is the ui abstraction so the interface looks the same in text and gui mode, and gui integrates with both qt and gtk 19:12:36 <hviaene> used it a few times to settle some graphics issues 19:12:37 <DavidWHodgins> hviaene: I stand corrected. Parts of mcc can be used in command line, but many of the drak tools do requires X 19:12:55 <hviaene> Agree 19:13:11 <brian_> so moving takes us one step closer to off of X correct? 19:13:20 <tmb> and text mode tools have not been wery well tested/polished lately... 19:13:40 <brian_> yeah - I much prefer gui for most basic admin 19:13:53 <DavidWHodgins> It seperates the gui (gtk, qt, ncurses) from the backend to make it more consistent no matter how it's used 19:14:12 <brian_> so that is a benefit 19:15:22 <brian_> if it makes Mageia a better product in the long run I'm for it. 19:15:35 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. The main argument against it, is that a lot of the installer code is shared with mcc. The installer must be changed too, or both mcc and manatools would have to be kept in sync 19:15:52 <DavidWHodgins> Work on changing the installer has not started yet 19:16:14 <hviaene> I would hate to see MCC go 19:16:15 <brian_> I'd say pick one or the other. Mixing would be difficult 19:16:31 <DavidWHodgins> And there may be cases where features in mcc are still missing from mana 19:16:31 <brian_> could the new system be made to look similar? 19:16:38 <DavidWHodgins> brian_: I agree 19:16:39 <wilcal> the manatool discussion has started :-) 19:16:52 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, manatools looks very similar to mcc 19:16:54 <tmb> brian_, the problem either way is resources... as in who will do the work... 19:17:10 <brian_> <agreed> 19:17:54 <hviaene> I'll be very harsh now!!!! 19:17:58 <DavidWHodgins> Most of the other features discussed so far are either minor, or do not affect qa 19:18:03 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 19:18:21 <brian_> :hviaene - have at it 19:18:56 <tmb> redoing installer is also a big work to get it to work properly on all bits :) 19:18:56 <hviaene> I see very little added value in Mageia if MCC is not kept - or completely replaced by xxxx with the same functionality 19:18:59 <DavidWHodgins> The next council meeting will pick up the discussion again. After two hours, people get too tired and talk in circles. 19:19:38 <tony_> MCC is certainly one of the jewels in the crown 19:19:41 <DavidWHodgins> hviaene: The intended benefit is code that's easier to maintain, and by sharing code with other projects, hopefully more people involved 19:20:10 <hviaene> A user does not see that 19:20:19 <wilcal> And we didn't get half way through the suggested issues 19:20:40 <DavidWHodgins> I'm willing to vote in favour of it, as long as it's a full replacement, including the code in the installers. Against if the installers are not changed too. 19:21:00 <DavidWHodgins> hviaene: True. The changes should be transparent to users 19:21:21 <tmb> hviaene, well manatools have tried to keep the same layout as drakx/mcc so people would be somewhat familiar with it... 19:21:23 <DavidWHodgins> Mostly at least. 19:21:23 <Bequimao> It think that it will take more than one year. 19:21:48 <DavidWHodgins> It's been in progress since early Mageia 5, iirc 19:22:34 <DavidWHodgins> This isn't brand new. Both dnf and manatools are present now. It's a matter of whether or not to make them default in Mageia 7. 19:23:18 <tmb> anyway, lets not repeat council debate here or we'll get a long QA meeting :) 19:23:23 <wilcal> That's the big take away from the Council meeting 19:23:24 <DavidWHodgins> You can install both dnf and manatools in Mageia 6, from the repos to see what they are like 19:23:35 <Bequimao> dnf is mature, manatools not so. 19:23:41 <wilcal> what are they called David 19:23:42 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed. Let's move on 19:23:49 <lewyssmith> If manatools are opted for for M7, it *must* be finished before we mess with testing. 19:24:15 <Bequimao> What about networkmanager? 19:24:17 <wilcal> No more KDE -> Plasma projects pleas 19:24:29 <brian_> :-) 19:24:34 <DavidWHodgins> Use "urpmq -y dnf" and "urpmq -y mana" to see the packages 19:25:01 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Testing updates - Any other difficulties, problems, issues? 19:25:25 <brian_> gstreamer is grayed. Should I go ahead and test? 19:25:47 <DavidWHodgins> No. Wait for the feedback marker to be removed 19:25:54 <brian_> ok 19:26:00 <tony_> bug 21658 - love to have an update to test! 19:26:02 <[mbot> Bug: ['cannot open grey-scale jpeg', 'NEW', 'Olav Vitters'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21658 19:26:23 <tony_> I've got 15000 pages of work notes M6 can't open 19:26:42 <DavidWHodgins> Ouch 19:27:04 <brian_> what tool tries to open the jpeg? 19:27:13 <DavidWHodgins> For bug 20323 clean install is all we can test 19:27:15 <[mbot> Bug: ['open-vm-tools new security issue CVE-2015-5191', 'REOPENED', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20323 19:27:19 <lewyssmith> 21658 is not in the updates list. 19:27:19 <tony_> Seems to run across most tools 19:27:31 <brian_> ok 19:27:36 <wilcal> pjproject and db? 19:27:44 <brian_> I'll do the test install on 20323 when I get a moment 19:27:50 <DavidWHodgins> for db and pjproject, those are both things I'll test, just haven't gotten around to it. Will try to do them later today 19:28:07 <wilcal> your the man David 19:28:26 <lewyssmith> brian_, I already poked it. 19:28:35 <wilcal> openshot-qt is not officially in there yet but i'm starting to test that 19:28:41 <brian_> ah - sounds like agood on that then 19:28:45 <DavidWHodgins> For udev, just check the file that contains the rule, before/after the update to ensure the line is added, and at least appears to be the correct syntax 19:28:56 <lewyssmith> How? 19:29:01 <brian_> I assume apache web-server is coming soon as well 19:29:27 <lewyssmith> Been & gone! 19:29:42 <brian_> LOL - slept through that 19:29:49 <tarazed> There is a problem with one of the apache modules 19:30:09 <lewyssmith> Oh... 19:30:22 <tarazed> apache works but... 19:32:17 <hviaene> I have to go, g'night all 19:32:27 <tarazed> Bye Herman 19:32:27 <lewyssmith> Goodbye Herman. 19:32:32 <tony__> test comment - hexchat keeps dropping me out 19:32:43 <lewyssmith> Saw that. 19:33:33 <brian_> I was thinking the info leak. They have a name for it OptionsBleed 19:34:18 <tarazed> And it is non-deterministic 19:34:23 <DavidWHodgins> I'll look at bug 21723 more later. I don't see any udev rule being added, just the library files being updated 19:34:25 <[mbot> Bug: ['Udev rule missing in libticables2 to allow users access to handhelds', 'ASSIGNED', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21723 19:36:14 <DavidWHodgins> for bug 21742, looks like it's just a matter of installing the update (without the prior version), and ensuring it doesn't pull in the data dumper perl module, and also ensuring the update installs cleanly when the prior version is installed first 19:36:16 <[mbot> Bug: ['Fix acme to not require perl(Data::Dumper) and challenge pool in rare case where letsencrypt verification is delayed', 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21742 19:36:56 <DavidWHodgins> For bug 21744, check installing the update also installs pyelftools (new package). 19:36:58 <[mbot> Bug: ["pax-utils' lddtree misses dependency on (unpackaged) pyelftools", 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21744 19:37:45 <DavidWHodgins> For bug 21748, thats Lewis and I ensuring adding/updating advisories in svn continues to work properly 19:37:47 <[mbot> Bug: ['Updated mga-advisories package to match new QA bugzilla workflow', 'NEW', 'QA Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21748 19:38:05 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins, Dave, can you put all the comments above in the relevant bugs? Makes them easier to deal with. 19:38:17 <DavidWHodgins> Yes 19:38:47 <lewyssmith> And for the 'rule' things - wher are they, where to look? 19:39:01 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks everyone, especially lewyssmith for the great work keeping on top of the updates testing 19:39:24 <tarazed> Lewis +1 19:39:36 <lewyssmith> And yourself, Len? 19:39:38 <DavidWHodgins> /lib/udev/rules.d/ 19:39:47 <lewyssmith> In the bug! 19:39:49 <tarazed> No, I am on a go slow 19:40:19 <lewyssmith> Anti Macron? 19:40:32 <DavidWHodgins> That's it for updates. 19:40:37 <DavidWHodgins> #topic * Anything else? 19:40:39 <tarazed> Just real life catching up on me 19:40:50 <wilcal> Nothing from me 19:41:00 <brian_> nada 19:41:07 <lewyssmith> Nothing here. 19:41:13 <DavidWHodgins> Countdown time then ... 19:41:14 <tarazed> OK here 19:41:19 <DavidWHodgins> T - 5 19:41:22 <DavidWHodgins> T - 4 19:41:24 <tarazed> Thanks Dave 19:41:25 <wilcal> i'll post the notes notice 19:41:25 <DavidWHodgins> T - 3 19:41:30 <DavidWHodgins> T - 2 19:41:31 <lewyssmith> Goodbye everyone. 19:41:32 <tarazed> And everybody else 19:41:34 <DavidWHodgins> T - 1 19:41:36 <wilcal> bye all 19:41:36 <rindolf> lewyssmith: bye 19:41:40 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks everyone! 19:41:48 <DavidWHodgins> #endmeeting