19:02:42 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:02:42 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Aug 17 19:02:42 2017 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:42 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:54 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
19:03:07 <wilcal> #chair lewyssmith
19:03:07 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal
19:03:26 <wilcal> Anyone new here
19:03:37 <rindolf> hi all
19:03:45 <rindolf> I'm not new though
19:03:50 <wilcal> hello rin & hvia
19:03:58 <tarazed> Evening Shlomi, Herman
19:04:05 <rindolf> tarazed: hi
19:04:08 <rindolf> wilcal: hi
19:04:08 <lewyssmith> Echoed.
19:04:17 <wilcal> note to everyone my internet connection is flaky today so I may disappear, then reappear, at anytime
19:04:18 <hviaene> Hi all
19:04:18 <wilcal> ‎[12:00] ‎<‎wilcal‎>‎ hello lewys
19:04:26 <lewyssmith> Now here? If so, please announce yourself.
19:04:31 <lewyssmith> new
19:04:32 <wilcal> note to everyone my internet connection is flaky today so I may disappear, then reappear, at anytime
19:05:07 <wilcal> no one is announcing as new
19:05:10 <brian__> np wilcal
19:05:30 <wilcal> #topic kernel testing
19:05:47 <wilcal> Lots of kernel testing how about the basic kernel
19:05:47 <lewyssmith> Bag first comment.
19:06:03 <tarazed> Linus you mean
19:06:18 <lewyssmith> I thought that for M6 we were dropping tmb & linus kernels; apparently not so.
19:06:45 <wilcal> seems https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21518
19:06:47 <[mbot> [ 21518 – Update request: kernel-4.9.43-1.mga6 ]
19:06:53 <tarazed> We should do more servers
19:06:57 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21521
19:07:00 <[mbot> [ 21521 – Update request: kernel-4.4.82-1.mga5 ]
19:07:10 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Which are servers?
19:07:22 <wilcal> These are the basic kernels for M5 & M6
19:07:37 <tarazed> Good question.  Definitely the stock kernel
19:07:43 <wilcal> Some people use server kernels
19:08:12 <lewyssmith> We get offered 3 in the updates list. Which of these are server?
19:08:24 <wilcal> So there's been a lot of testing on these are we to a point where we can push these two bugs on?
19:08:26 <brian__> I've done a pretty intense test on 32-bit 4.4.82 server.  It's holding up well
19:08:54 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Len, I have just posted a reply to your excellent summary.
19:08:55 <wilcal> Vbox is happy with these in M5 & M6
19:09:00 <brian__> heavy processing heavy network, lots of memory exercise
19:09:05 <Bequimao> I had kernel-server-latest in my VM test with qemu-kvm. Replaced that with kernel-desktop.
19:09:16 <wilcal> Thks that's my employment at GE coming back to me
19:09:49 <brian__> lol - I suspect they are close for main entities.  Gaps for linus and tmb
19:10:06 <lewyssmith> All I can test is real 64-bit.
19:10:15 <brian__> mine is real hdwr fyi
19:10:28 <wilcal> So can we push 518 & 521?
19:10:45 <brian__> my opinion - yes
19:10:53 <wilcal> Yes from me
19:11:19 <wilcal> What you say lewys?
19:11:50 <tarazed> They have had heavier testing - I say yes
19:11:53 <lewyssmith> If tmb 32-bit is covered - yes.
19:12:02 <brian__> I wish David or Tmb around to report on actual servers
19:12:22 <wilcal> the tmb & linus kernels are different bugs
19:12:37 <brian__> I forget who would upgrade their servers and let them run a week.
19:12:57 <lewyssmith> Sorry, confused by the multiplicity. Certianly let out the 2 dektop ones.
19:12:58 <tarazed> Yes they might need more coverage
19:13:21 <brian__> I could do tmb, the I/O optimizations are intersting
19:13:21 <wilcal> After this meeting I will validate 518 & 521
19:13:25 <tarazed> They don't have server versions
19:13:58 <tarazed> brian__: please do
19:14:21 <lewyssmith> The linus & tmb variants are covered for 64-bit real HW; nedd 32-bit also.
19:14:25 <wilcal> I had a problem with x86_64 tmb so I need to run that testing all over again
19:14:48 <lewyssmith> Real or VB?
19:15:06 <brian__> I'll do real hardware tmb-32 bit
19:15:10 <wilcal> VB 32-bit worked fine
19:15:29 <wilcal> It's probably a repo problem
19:15:31 <tarazed> And a single VB test should be enough
19:15:35 <brian__> let's see if I can dig up an old slug of a machine from updstairs
19:16:18 <lewyssmith> Remeber that with tmb & linus kernels you need to chose them from the Grub menu.
19:16:32 <lewyssmith> Easy to overlook.
19:16:41 <wilcal> yes you have to be careful how you go through the boot process
19:17:09 <lewyssmith> I should have said the Grub 'advanced' menu.
19:17:10 <tarazed> Yes.  With drakboot --boot you can make sure they can be identified easily
19:17:49 <lewyssmith> Welcom sophie; do we know you?
19:17:51 <tarazed> Hi Sophie - long time no see
19:18:27 <brian__> tmb - rather I do m5 or m6?
19:18:38 <wilcal> m6
19:18:45 <brian__> ok
19:18:54 <lewyssmith> M6 is more important, I think.
19:19:09 <tarazed> Both are empty for 32-bit
19:19:20 <wilcal> We've got less then 90-days life in m5 now
19:19:32 <brian__> I think the box is already on m6, so I'll make sure all the patches are applied then add tmb kernel
19:19:33 <tarazed> Good point
19:19:39 <lewyssmith> No-one replied about tmb & linus kernels supposedly being dropped for M6...
19:19:55 <tarazed> Don't know
19:20:17 <lewyssmith> I just saw it mentioned somewhere once.
19:20:24 <brian__> this is where I wish there was some type of download tracking - but I know it invades privacy
19:20:30 <wilcal> Still in the updates_testing
19:20:45 <lewyssmith> We *need* it, Brian. No need to invade privacy.
19:21:12 <wilcal> nice to know how many times mageia.org is accessed
19:21:39 <wilcal> A new install calls home at least once
19:21:56 <lewyssmith> What is downloaded, installed, updated is what matters. COUNTs only.
19:22:05 <wilcal> lets move on
19:22:07 <brian__> true, but would love to know if/how often some obscure items are downloaded
19:22:11 <wilcal> #topic games testing
19:22:13 <brian__> yes move on
19:22:30 <lewyssmith> This is already dead, Bill. everyone agreed about it.
19:22:31 <wilcal> lots of discussion on this so we should kick it around here
19:22:33 <brian__> tuxcart here I come!!!!
19:23:14 <wilcal> a brief warp on where game testing ended lewys
19:23:29 <lewyssmith> - 4 which is nice.
19:23:57 <lewyssmith> We accepted without blemish the original suggestion.
19:24:24 <wilcal> So game testing is for just 64-bit?
19:24:38 <wilcal> I didn't follow the discussion very much
19:24:45 <lewyssmith> Same rules as for other thiongs: either.
19:25:12 <lewyssmith> Just see them as bugfixes.
19:25:34 <wilcal> ok
19:25:54 <wilcal> We should move on before I get disconnected by my isp
19:26:04 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates & Backports
19:26:30 <wilcal> Still a long listing
19:26:42 <brian__> I'll keep chipping away, some are out of my league
19:26:44 <lewyssmith> Off topic: just heard Elgar 1 from the Proms on Fench radio; very rare - they do not like to acknowledge Englis music (except Britten).
19:27:05 <tarazed> brian__: same for all of us.
19:27:06 <brian__> :-)
19:27:14 <lewyssmith> Updates: we are holding the fort very well, with some welcome extra help.
19:27:22 <tarazed> Should move faster once the kernels are out of the way
19:27:50 <wilcal> Agreed
19:28:02 <lewyssmith> I amplease with the way things are working in the dire situation. We are still here!
19:28:24 <wilcal> the critical critical's get attended to quicly
19:28:25 <lewyssmith> Alive & kicking.
19:28:38 <tarazed> We need some PR to recruit more testers though.  Claire was good at that.
19:28:39 <wilcal> almost through Holiday season
19:29:10 <lewyssmith> We should not forget the M6 bugfixes, usually easier to test. I have an idea to progress thos - to try.
19:29:12 <brian__> I agree on the marketing
19:29:21 <wilcal> Being retired I'm on permanate holiday
19:29:26 <Bequimao> How do you test programs which you never heard of?
19:29:41 <lewyssmith> Our constant dileamma...
19:29:52 <wilcal> we may have to make a decision on some of these install and update without error
19:29:52 <tarazed> Research if you have the time.
19:29:53 <brian__> I often google what it is and look at bug scenario
19:30:08 <tarazed> Yeah, that's the way
19:30:19 <wilcal> You know what i call them "career" apps learn how to test it get a great job
19:30:26 <brian__> sometimes just doing a basic script test (often available by software site).
19:30:35 <lewyssmith> The 'clean update' is the last resort, but dead easy if we fall back to that.
19:30:46 <brian__> true
19:30:52 <wilcal> We do a fair job on documenting procedures
19:31:18 <wilcal> Assume the person testing the app next has no idea how to test it
19:31:35 <lewyssmith> Yes, it is important to note what one daoes to test something - for later refrence.
19:31:39 <tarazed> So be verbose.
19:31:40 <wilcal> Lots of assumption in procedures about what tester already knows how to do
19:32:06 <wilcal> Do not assume tester understands how to set up a database for a web app
19:32:17 <brian__> ;D  I tend to only report every third step.
19:32:21 <tarazed> wilcal: you are right about that
19:32:35 <wilcal> mention that in bug/procedure. like you should know how to set up mariadb
19:32:44 <lewyssmith> Let us not be pessimistic: we have done really well, and will continue to do so. We shall get those lists down.
19:33:11 <wilcal> That was all beat into me in my years at General Electric
19:33:12 <tarazed> Definitely.
19:33:28 <brian__> if they aren't trade secrets, append your scripts as well (as an attachment)
19:33:40 <lewyssmith> Agreed.
19:33:52 <wilcal> we have done well and we all continue to learn how some of these things work
19:34:07 <wilcal> I've found some great and fun apps during testing
19:34:19 <lewyssmith> We have a great team in action at present.
19:34:25 <wilcal> we do
19:34:36 <wilcal> Press on as best you can
19:34:46 <wilcal> lets move on before I get kicked off
19:34:54 <Bequimao> thanks for the explanation. Of course these are no professional test. An audit would have 90% + findings.
19:34:59 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else?
19:35:08 <lewyssmith> Not here.
19:35:13 <tarazed> Actually we have little time for mentoring so maybe forget about marketing
19:35:29 <tarazed> Not from me.
19:35:33 <wilcal> To expand. At GE I had to keep an "Engineer Notebook" and detail document everything I did
19:35:53 <wilcal> and do so that anyone behind me could easily follow the same steps
19:36:01 <lewyssmith> About 10 people express interest in joining QA for every 1 who stays. alas.
19:36:10 <wilcal> I had to present those notebooks to m boss every other week
19:36:19 <tarazed> The same goes for coding - document evry line.
19:36:21 <brian__> yes - so let's market once holidays are over
19:36:23 <Bequimao> wilcal: I also worked with GE. They bought my employer.
19:36:30 <wilcal> My job, and any salary increases depended on how well i did that
19:36:34 <brian__> yeah - that happens a lot
19:36:44 <brian__> getting bought
19:36:50 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Agree wholeheartedly, Len. Modern code is almost bare of comments. Scandalous.
19:37:18 <wilcal> code has the # thing use it prolitically
19:37:35 <wilcal> 5 lines of # 1 line of code
19:37:42 <lewyssmith> If only the orignal programmer did...
19:37:49 <tarazed> In ruby the preliminary documentation is often extracted straight out of the comments.
19:38:08 <wilcal> Also assume that whom ever is following you english is a 2nd language
19:38:19 <brian__> I haven't pursued ruby yet, sounds interesting
19:38:22 <wilcal> Write cleanly and easy to understand
19:38:39 <brian__> ko - wll du my bst
19:38:46 <lewyssmith> This is becoming philosophical.
19:38:50 <tarazed> wilcal: That is a very important point.
19:39:20 <wilcal> most of whom I have interfaced with in my career english was a 2nd language
19:39:50 <wilcal> British is a different language then American English speak carefully to a Brit :-))
19:39:55 <tarazed> That was true in the astronomical community as well.
19:40:38 <wilcal> So anything else
19:40:57 <brian__> none here
19:41:03 <wilcal> i'm done
19:41:12 <wilcal> keep up the testing
19:41:17 <tarazed> Nope - but many thanks to all those that rallied to the flag
19:41:29 <wilcal> Count down time
19:41:31 <lewyssmith> I have an idea also for augmenting QA , to persue.
19:41:45 <wilcal> speak you have the podium
19:42:00 <lewyssmith> Secret for now! It may be stoney ground.
19:42:17 <wilcal> OK next meeting  maybe
19:42:23 <wilcal> T-5
19:42:37 <wilcal> T-4
19:42:42 <wilcal> T-3
19:42:46 <wilcal> thanks all for being here
19:42:48 <lewyssmith> Goodbye everyone; and thanks to Bill as usual.
19:42:50 <wilcal> T-2
19:42:53 <tarazed> So long guys
19:42:58 <wilcal> T-1
19:43:06 <wilcal> #endmeeting