19:02:42 <wilcal> #startmeeting 19:02:42 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Aug 17 19:02:42 2017 UTC. The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:02:42 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:02:54 <wilcal> #topic Who's new? 19:03:07 <wilcal> #chair lewyssmith 19:03:07 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal 19:03:26 <wilcal> Anyone new here 19:03:37 <rindolf> hi all 19:03:45 <rindolf> I'm not new though 19:03:50 <wilcal> hello rin & hvia 19:03:58 <tarazed> Evening Shlomi, Herman 19:04:05 <rindolf> tarazed: hi 19:04:08 <rindolf> wilcal: hi 19:04:08 <lewyssmith> Echoed. 19:04:17 <wilcal> note to everyone my internet connection is flaky today so I may disappear, then reappear, at anytime 19:04:18 <hviaene> Hi all 19:04:18 <wilcal> [12:00] <wilcal> hello lewys 19:04:26 <lewyssmith> Now here? If so, please announce yourself. 19:04:31 <lewyssmith> new 19:04:32 <wilcal> note to everyone my internet connection is flaky today so I may disappear, then reappear, at anytime 19:05:07 <wilcal> no one is announcing as new 19:05:10 <brian__> np wilcal 19:05:30 <wilcal> #topic kernel testing 19:05:47 <wilcal> Lots of kernel testing how about the basic kernel 19:05:47 <lewyssmith> Bag first comment. 19:06:03 <tarazed> Linus you mean 19:06:18 <lewyssmith> I thought that for M6 we were dropping tmb & linus kernels; apparently not so. 19:06:45 <wilcal> seems https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21518 19:06:47 <[mbot> [ 21518 – Update request: kernel-4.9.43-1.mga6 ] 19:06:53 <tarazed> We should do more servers 19:06:57 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21521 19:07:00 <[mbot> [ 21521 – Update request: kernel-4.4.82-1.mga5 ] 19:07:10 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Which are servers? 19:07:22 <wilcal> These are the basic kernels for M5 & M6 19:07:37 <tarazed> Good question. Definitely the stock kernel 19:07:43 <wilcal> Some people use server kernels 19:08:12 <lewyssmith> We get offered 3 in the updates list. Which of these are server? 19:08:24 <wilcal> So there's been a lot of testing on these are we to a point where we can push these two bugs on? 19:08:26 <brian__> I've done a pretty intense test on 32-bit 4.4.82 server. It's holding up well 19:08:54 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Len, I have just posted a reply to your excellent summary. 19:08:55 <wilcal> Vbox is happy with these in M5 & M6 19:09:00 <brian__> heavy processing heavy network, lots of memory exercise 19:09:05 <Bequimao> I had kernel-server-latest in my VM test with qemu-kvm. Replaced that with kernel-desktop. 19:09:16 <wilcal> Thks that's my employment at GE coming back to me 19:09:49 <brian__> lol - I suspect they are close for main entities. Gaps for linus and tmb 19:10:06 <lewyssmith> All I can test is real 64-bit. 19:10:15 <brian__> mine is real hdwr fyi 19:10:28 <wilcal> So can we push 518 & 521? 19:10:45 <brian__> my opinion - yes 19:10:53 <wilcal> Yes from me 19:11:19 <wilcal> What you say lewys? 19:11:50 <tarazed> They have had heavier testing - I say yes 19:11:53 <lewyssmith> If tmb 32-bit is covered - yes. 19:12:02 <brian__> I wish David or Tmb around to report on actual servers 19:12:22 <wilcal> the tmb & linus kernels are different bugs 19:12:37 <brian__> I forget who would upgrade their servers and let them run a week. 19:12:57 <lewyssmith> Sorry, confused by the multiplicity. Certianly let out the 2 dektop ones. 19:12:58 <tarazed> Yes they might need more coverage 19:13:21 <brian__> I could do tmb, the I/O optimizations are intersting 19:13:21 <wilcal> After this meeting I will validate 518 & 521 19:13:25 <tarazed> They don't have server versions 19:13:58 <tarazed> brian__: please do 19:14:21 <lewyssmith> The linus & tmb variants are covered for 64-bit real HW; nedd 32-bit also. 19:14:25 <wilcal> I had a problem with x86_64 tmb so I need to run that testing all over again 19:14:48 <lewyssmith> Real or VB? 19:15:06 <brian__> I'll do real hardware tmb-32 bit 19:15:10 <wilcal> VB 32-bit worked fine 19:15:29 <wilcal> It's probably a repo problem 19:15:31 <tarazed> And a single VB test should be enough 19:15:35 <brian__> let's see if I can dig up an old slug of a machine from updstairs 19:16:18 <lewyssmith> Remeber that with tmb & linus kernels you need to chose them from the Grub menu. 19:16:32 <lewyssmith> Easy to overlook. 19:16:41 <wilcal> yes you have to be careful how you go through the boot process 19:17:09 <lewyssmith> I should have said the Grub 'advanced' menu. 19:17:10 <tarazed> Yes. With drakboot --boot you can make sure they can be identified easily 19:17:49 <lewyssmith> Welcom sophie; do we know you? 19:17:51 <tarazed> Hi Sophie - long time no see 19:18:27 <brian__> tmb - rather I do m5 or m6? 19:18:38 <wilcal> m6 19:18:45 <brian__> ok 19:18:54 <lewyssmith> M6 is more important, I think. 19:19:09 <tarazed> Both are empty for 32-bit 19:19:20 <wilcal> We've got less then 90-days life in m5 now 19:19:32 <brian__> I think the box is already on m6, so I'll make sure all the patches are applied then add tmb kernel 19:19:33 <tarazed> Good point 19:19:39 <lewyssmith> No-one replied about tmb & linus kernels supposedly being dropped for M6... 19:19:55 <tarazed> Don't know 19:20:17 <lewyssmith> I just saw it mentioned somewhere once. 19:20:24 <brian__> this is where I wish there was some type of download tracking - but I know it invades privacy 19:20:30 <wilcal> Still in the updates_testing 19:20:45 <lewyssmith> We *need* it, Brian. No need to invade privacy. 19:21:12 <wilcal> nice to know how many times mageia.org is accessed 19:21:39 <wilcal> A new install calls home at least once 19:21:56 <lewyssmith> What is downloaded, installed, updated is what matters. COUNTs only. 19:22:05 <wilcal> lets move on 19:22:07 <brian__> true, but would love to know if/how often some obscure items are downloaded 19:22:11 <wilcal> #topic games testing 19:22:13 <brian__> yes move on 19:22:30 <lewyssmith> This is already dead, Bill. everyone agreed about it. 19:22:31 <wilcal> lots of discussion on this so we should kick it around here 19:22:33 <brian__> tuxcart here I come!!!! 19:23:14 <wilcal> a brief warp on where game testing ended lewys 19:23:29 <lewyssmith> - 4 which is nice. 19:23:57 <lewyssmith> We accepted without blemish the original suggestion. 19:24:24 <wilcal> So game testing is for just 64-bit? 19:24:38 <wilcal> I didn't follow the discussion very much 19:24:45 <lewyssmith> Same rules as for other thiongs: either. 19:25:12 <lewyssmith> Just see them as bugfixes. 19:25:34 <wilcal> ok 19:25:54 <wilcal> We should move on before I get disconnected by my isp 19:26:04 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates & Backports 19:26:30 <wilcal> Still a long listing 19:26:42 <brian__> I'll keep chipping away, some are out of my league 19:26:44 <lewyssmith> Off topic: just heard Elgar 1 from the Proms on Fench radio; very rare - they do not like to acknowledge Englis music (except Britten). 19:27:05 <tarazed> brian__: same for all of us. 19:27:06 <brian__> :-) 19:27:14 <lewyssmith> Updates: we are holding the fort very well, with some welcome extra help. 19:27:22 <tarazed> Should move faster once the kernels are out of the way 19:27:50 <wilcal> Agreed 19:28:02 <lewyssmith> I amplease with the way things are working in the dire situation. We are still here! 19:28:24 <wilcal> the critical critical's get attended to quicly 19:28:25 <lewyssmith> Alive & kicking. 19:28:38 <tarazed> We need some PR to recruit more testers though. Claire was good at that. 19:28:39 <wilcal> almost through Holiday season 19:29:10 <lewyssmith> We should not forget the M6 bugfixes, usually easier to test. I have an idea to progress thos - to try. 19:29:12 <brian__> I agree on the marketing 19:29:21 <wilcal> Being retired I'm on permanate holiday 19:29:26 <Bequimao> How do you test programs which you never heard of? 19:29:41 <lewyssmith> Our constant dileamma... 19:29:52 <wilcal> we may have to make a decision on some of these install and update without error 19:29:52 <tarazed> Research if you have the time. 19:29:53 <brian__> I often google what it is and look at bug scenario 19:30:08 <tarazed> Yeah, that's the way 19:30:19 <wilcal> You know what i call them "career" apps learn how to test it get a great job 19:30:26 <brian__> sometimes just doing a basic script test (often available by software site). 19:30:35 <lewyssmith> The 'clean update' is the last resort, but dead easy if we fall back to that. 19:30:46 <brian__> true 19:30:52 <wilcal> We do a fair job on documenting procedures 19:31:18 <wilcal> Assume the person testing the app next has no idea how to test it 19:31:35 <lewyssmith> Yes, it is important to note what one daoes to test something - for later refrence. 19:31:39 <tarazed> So be verbose. 19:31:40 <wilcal> Lots of assumption in procedures about what tester already knows how to do 19:32:06 <wilcal> Do not assume tester understands how to set up a database for a web app 19:32:17 <brian__> ;D I tend to only report every third step. 19:32:21 <tarazed> wilcal: you are right about that 19:32:35 <wilcal> mention that in bug/procedure. like you should know how to set up mariadb 19:32:44 <lewyssmith> Let us not be pessimistic: we have done really well, and will continue to do so. We shall get those lists down. 19:33:11 <wilcal> That was all beat into me in my years at General Electric 19:33:12 <tarazed> Definitely. 19:33:28 <brian__> if they aren't trade secrets, append your scripts as well (as an attachment) 19:33:40 <lewyssmith> Agreed. 19:33:52 <wilcal> we have done well and we all continue to learn how some of these things work 19:34:07 <wilcal> I've found some great and fun apps during testing 19:34:19 <lewyssmith> We have a great team in action at present. 19:34:25 <wilcal> we do 19:34:36 <wilcal> Press on as best you can 19:34:46 <wilcal> lets move on before I get kicked off 19:34:54 <Bequimao> thanks for the explanation. Of course these are no professional test. An audit would have 90% + findings. 19:34:59 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else? 19:35:08 <lewyssmith> Not here. 19:35:13 <tarazed> Actually we have little time for mentoring so maybe forget about marketing 19:35:29 <tarazed> Not from me. 19:35:33 <wilcal> To expand. At GE I had to keep an "Engineer Notebook" and detail document everything I did 19:35:53 <wilcal> and do so that anyone behind me could easily follow the same steps 19:36:01 <lewyssmith> About 10 people express interest in joining QA for every 1 who stays. alas. 19:36:10 <wilcal> I had to present those notebooks to m boss every other week 19:36:19 <tarazed> The same goes for coding - document evry line. 19:36:21 <brian__> yes - so let's market once holidays are over 19:36:23 <Bequimao> wilcal: I also worked with GE. They bought my employer. 19:36:30 <wilcal> My job, and any salary increases depended on how well i did that 19:36:34 <brian__> yeah - that happens a lot 19:36:44 <brian__> getting bought 19:36:50 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Agree wholeheartedly, Len. Modern code is almost bare of comments. Scandalous. 19:37:18 <wilcal> code has the # thing use it prolitically 19:37:35 <wilcal> 5 lines of # 1 line of code 19:37:42 <lewyssmith> If only the orignal programmer did... 19:37:49 <tarazed> In ruby the preliminary documentation is often extracted straight out of the comments. 19:38:08 <wilcal> Also assume that whom ever is following you english is a 2nd language 19:38:19 <brian__> I haven't pursued ruby yet, sounds interesting 19:38:22 <wilcal> Write cleanly and easy to understand 19:38:39 <brian__> ko - wll du my bst 19:38:46 <lewyssmith> This is becoming philosophical. 19:38:50 <tarazed> wilcal: That is a very important point. 19:39:20 <wilcal> most of whom I have interfaced with in my career english was a 2nd language 19:39:50 <wilcal> British is a different language then American English speak carefully to a Brit :-)) 19:39:55 <tarazed> That was true in the astronomical community as well. 19:40:38 <wilcal> So anything else 19:40:57 <brian__> none here 19:41:03 <wilcal> i'm done 19:41:12 <wilcal> keep up the testing 19:41:17 <tarazed> Nope - but many thanks to all those that rallied to the flag 19:41:29 <wilcal> Count down time 19:41:31 <lewyssmith> I have an idea also for augmenting QA , to persue. 19:41:45 <wilcal> speak you have the podium 19:42:00 <lewyssmith> Secret for now! It may be stoney ground. 19:42:17 <wilcal> OK next meeting maybe 19:42:23 <wilcal> T-5 19:42:37 <wilcal> T-4 19:42:42 <wilcal> T-3 19:42:46 <wilcal> thanks all for being here 19:42:48 <lewyssmith> Goodbye everyone; and thanks to Bill as usual. 19:42:50 <wilcal> T-2 19:42:53 <tarazed> So long guys 19:42:58 <wilcal> T-1 19:43:06 <wilcal> #endmeeting