19:03:28 <wilcal> #startmeeting 19:03:28 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Jul 20 19:03:28 2017 UTC. The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:03:28 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:03:37 <wilcal> Welcome to this weeks QA meeting 19:03:49 <wilcal> #topic Who's new? 19:04:00 <wilcal> Anyone new here 19:04:02 <lewyssmith> Not me, but I am back! 19:04:18 <wilcal> Should be short meeting today 19:04:32 <lewyssmith> Just 3 of us? 19:04:42 <wilcal> Vacation time in Europe 19:05:02 <lewyssmith> It is the garden that is taking all my time at present. 19:05:05 <wilcal> Lets talk a few minutes about M6 19:05:07 <wilcal> #topic M6 19:05:24 <wilcal> You saw the message by Remi 19:05:41 <lewyssmith> Sad news, but not wholly unexpected. 19:05:50 <wilcal> I am very gently going to refer to my past comments 19:06:01 <lewyssmith> You have them? 19:06:26 <wilcal> IMO especially in the case of an nvidia platform M5 KDE -> M6 Plasma is probably not doable 19:06:49 <wilcal> especially as Remi mentioned with complex systems 19:06:58 <hviaene> You mean upgrade? 19:07:04 <wilcal> Yes 19:07:39 <wilcal> Microsoft did this with Vista/XP to Win7 19:07:47 <rindolf> hi all 19:07:53 <hviaene> I never do that. Did a few installs on existing systems, but always taje fresh install 19:07:55 <lewyssmith> Hello Shlomi. 19:08:02 <wilcal> Before the release of Win7 they indicated that that upgrade path was not supported 19:08:43 <hviaene> Is MS an aexample to follow???puke 19:08:57 <wilcal> I agree but it is precident 19:09:30 <wilcal> Remi pointed out that people put packages on their systems that are not in the Mageia repo and that's a problem 19:09:43 <lewyssmith> I wonder whether the upgraders who failed followed Charles' advice in Errata. Or whether that is independant of Nvidia problems. 19:09:48 <hviaene> If I was to decide, I would never even offer an upgrade 19:09:51 <wilcal> I think in the past that was less painful but with KDE -> Plasma it's a big problem 19:10:38 <wilcal> Since we started testing M5 -> M6 upgrade I have indicated, IMO, it's not doable on a large percentage of systems 19:10:38 <lewyssmith> hviaene: If it works, it is a godsend. I shudder to think of re-installing so many things that are complicated to set up. 19:11:00 <hviaene> Yes, IF!!!! 19:11:08 <wilcal> So i think the message here is that there is significant problems in the field with this 19:11:31 <lewyssmith> In fact I agree with you both: I prefer a clean install, to shed accumulated junk. 19:11:33 <wilcal> Is it a problem with Xfce or Gnome systems? 19:11:50 <wilcal> killdisk.com is my friend 19:11:52 <hviaene> Have the KDE people somthing to offer???? 19:12:07 <lewyssmith> We are surely not alone? 19:12:17 <wilcal> I agree lewys 19:12:50 <hviaene> If not, we shouldn't even think of upgrading. 19:13:04 <lewyssmith> OTOH I have things I do not want to lose: Opera 12. 19:13:05 <wilcal> for now Remi is in the gatering phase and next (weeks) Council meeting there will be discussions 19:13:17 <wilcal> At least not in this one case 19:13:34 <wilcal> I don't support cutting new iso's 19:13:52 <wilcal> If you are upgrading you should have the on-line repos enabled 19:14:13 <lewyssmith> Have new ISOs been propsed? 19:14:31 <wilcal> Remi brought it up in his message on the QA mailing list 19:14:56 <wilcal> So with just a few of us here can I get some kind of concensis on this 19:15:00 <lewyssmith> I thought he said problems could be fixed by updates. 19:15:19 <wilcal> IMO M5 KDE -> M6 Plasma upgrade is not recommended 19:15:36 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Concensus on what? 19:16:09 <hviaene> wilcal: agree 19:16:11 <wilcal> I will attend the next Council meeting and I'd like something to say for QA on this 19:16:44 <wilcal> Especially if you have an nvidia framebuffer 19:16:54 <lewyssmith> On this subject, no comment from me. Up to the user to try. If upgrade does not work, install from new. 19:17:09 <wilcal> "not recommended" is less severe then saying don't do it 19:17:18 <lewyssmith> Agree. 19:17:30 <wilcal> Back up first then give it a go 19:17:38 <lewyssmith> Just so. 19:17:58 <lewyssmith> And read the Releae & Errata notes on the subject first. 19:18:19 <wilcal> I don't think the problem is mentioned strongly enough 19:18:27 <hviaene> shy 19:18:47 <wilcal> Maybe I can convince the Council to put some stronger words in the Errata 19:18:59 <lewyssmith> Charles' upgrade test was severe, so it can fly if properly fiddled. Perhaps not with nVidia. 19:19:08 <wilcal> Big Bold Letters "BACK UP FIRST" 19:19:44 <lewyssmith> I said that somewhere: upgrade wiki? 19:19:59 <wilcal> So I will carry these thoughts into the Council Meeting 19:20:10 <lewyssmith> Good fellow. 19:20:19 <wilcal> Should be at the top of the Wiki in bold letters 19:20:33 <lewyssmith> Feel free to edit it! 19:20:46 <wilcal> Not without the Councils OK 19:21:22 <wilcal> Anyway I've got some good points to use here 19:21:25 <lewyssmith> Ask whether other desktops & NOT nVidia are working, please. 19:21:56 <wilcal> The few times I've done an upgrade here , no nvidia, it worked with a basic system 19:22:37 <wilcal> that being say the M5 x86_64 LiveDVD, update that, then upgrade it. It worked but there was still some desktop cleanup 19:22:50 <wilcal> no other apps installed 19:22:54 <wilcal> hi be 19:23:06 <lewyssmith> Ah, Ben. Hello. 19:23:25 <benmc_> Hello all 19:23:29 <wilcal> We are discussing the problems with upgrades M5 -> M6 19:23:50 <wilcal> Remi is asking for comments to be discussed at next Council meeting 19:24:31 <benmc_> Yes, I sent few apparent on the forum 19:25:10 <wilcal> My position has always been that nvidia M5 KDE -> M6 Plasma is not really doable 19:25:33 <wilcal> Not without serious fixing to get it working right 19:25:45 <wilcal> Anything to add ben 19:26:30 <benmc_> I note that the "upgrade icon" has gone 19:26:49 <lewyssmith> Could be a good thing in the circumstances! 19:26:59 <wilcal> Yup took it off there because of all the pain 19:27:32 <benmc_> So probably best to advise against kde upgrades as they also seem to be probblemmatic 19:27:54 <wilcal> Anything but "Don't do it" 19:28:13 <lewyssmith> Has any other distribution done it successfully? 19:28:53 <benmc_> Must go, may catch you later 19:28:59 <lewyssmith> Upgrades apart, is there any feedback for M6 per se? 19:29:44 <hviaene> Not that I can think of right now 19:30:08 <wilcal> I'm not really having any issues right now 19:30:42 <wilcal> I'm still seeing some kmserver errors 19:31:04 <wilcal> a simple ctrl-alt-backspace gets out of that 19:31:21 <wilcal> I've got one more platform here to switch over 19:31:40 <lewyssmith> Next topic, perhaps, Bill? 19:31:43 <hviaene> I have one system where I cann't make MCC to ask the root pasword 19:32:03 <hviaene> But I haven't been theu all possible settings yet 19:32:13 <hviaene> thru 19:32:21 <wilcal> other then that M6 works very well for me 19:33:08 <wilcal> More info next QA meeting 19:33:23 <wilcal> lets move on 19:33:24 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates 19:33:31 <wilcal> Big stack there 19:33:39 <wilcal> Got to get back in there 19:33:47 <lewyssmith> Long list, but Herman has done lots & I am cxhasing him. 19:34:04 <lewyssmith> We will get it down. 19:34:11 <hviaene> What s that word??? 19:34:12 <wilcal> one ok, espeically if it's x86_64, is ok to push 19:34:27 <lewyssmith> hviaene: chasing 19:34:32 <wilcal> Yes, we'll work it down in the next week(s) 19:34:57 <wilcal> Lots of things in there I'm not familiar with 19:35:15 <lewyssmith> Same for all of us. Look for previous bugs is best. 19:35:28 <hviaene> Perltidyheartbreak 19:35:51 <lewyssmith> One for Len? 19:36:02 <wilcal> Wish I could learn to use OpenVPN :-( 19:36:44 <lewyssmith> Some people have it for lunch. A question of finding & poking them. 19:36:49 <wilcal> So lets leave it at that. Do as best you can on the list and lets hope we can get it down by next QA meeting or at least not any longer 19:37:13 <wilcal> So on to 19:37:14 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else? 19:37:15 <lewyssmith> It will be less, unless David does something nasty beforehand. 19:37:20 <hviaene> I might have a case to have to setup a vpn, but that won't be tommorrow 19:37:25 <wilcal> No need to drag this on anything else?? 19:37:40 <hviaene> None here 19:37:45 <lewyssmith> Nor me. 19:37:50 <wilcal> This little laptop simply loves M6 x86_64 Plasma no nvidia 19:37:55 <wilcal> :=) 19:38:02 <lewyssmith> Thanks again Bill for managing the IRC front. 19:38:11 <wilcal> loved it 19:38:27 <wilcal> So lets count it down 19:38:30 <wilcal> T-5 19:38:36 <wilcal> T-4 19:38:39 <hviaene> G'night 19:38:40 <wilcal> T-3 19:38:45 <wilcal> Bye all 19:38:47 <wilcal> T-2 19:38:48 <lewyssmith> Goodbye to the faithfull! 19:38:53 <wilcal> T-1 19:39:00 <wilcal> #endmeeting