19:03:28 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:03:28 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Jul 20 19:03:28 2017 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:03:28 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:03:37 <wilcal> Welcome to this weeks QA meeting
19:03:49 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
19:04:00 <wilcal> Anyone new here
19:04:02 <lewyssmith> Not me, but I am back!
19:04:18 <wilcal> Should be short meeting today
19:04:32 <lewyssmith> Just 3 of us?
19:04:42 <wilcal> Vacation time in Europe
19:05:02 <lewyssmith> It is the garden that is taking all my time at present.
19:05:05 <wilcal> Lets talk a few minutes about M6
19:05:07 <wilcal> #topic M6
19:05:24 <wilcal> You saw the message by Remi
19:05:41 <lewyssmith> Sad news, but not wholly unexpected.
19:05:50 <wilcal> I am very gently going to refer to my past comments
19:06:01 <lewyssmith> You have them?
19:06:26 <wilcal> IMO especially in the case of an nvidia platform M5 KDE -> M6 Plasma is probably not doable
19:06:49 <wilcal> especially as Remi mentioned with complex systems
19:06:58 <hviaene> You mean upgrade?
19:07:04 <wilcal> Yes
19:07:39 <wilcal> Microsoft did this with Vista/XP to Win7
19:07:47 <rindolf> hi all
19:07:53 <hviaene> I never do that. Did a few installs on existing systems, but always taje fresh install
19:07:55 <lewyssmith> Hello Shlomi.
19:08:02 <wilcal> Before the release of Win7 they indicated that that upgrade path was not supported
19:08:43 <hviaene> Is MS an aexample to follow???puke
19:08:57 <wilcal> I agree but it is precident
19:09:30 <wilcal> Remi pointed out that people put packages on their systems that are not in the Mageia repo and that's a problem
19:09:43 <lewyssmith> I wonder whether the upgraders who failed followed Charles' advice in Errata. Or whether that is independant of Nvidia problems.
19:09:48 <hviaene> If I was to decide, I would never even offer an upgrade
19:09:51 <wilcal> I think in the past that was less painful but with KDE -> Plasma it's a big problem
19:10:38 <wilcal> Since we started testing M5 -> M6 upgrade I have indicated, IMO, it's not doable on a large percentage of systems
19:10:38 <lewyssmith> hviaene: If it works, it is a godsend. I shudder to think of re-installing so many things that are complicated to set up.
19:11:00 <hviaene> Yes, IF!!!!
19:11:08 <wilcal> So i think the message here is that there is significant problems in the field with this
19:11:31 <lewyssmith> In fact I agree with you both: I prefer a clean install, to shed accumulated junk.
19:11:33 <wilcal> Is it a problem with Xfce or Gnome systems?
19:11:50 <wilcal> killdisk.com is my friend
19:11:52 <hviaene> Have the KDE people somthing to offer????
19:12:07 <lewyssmith> We are surely not alone?
19:12:17 <wilcal> I agree lewys
19:12:50 <hviaene> If not, we shouldn't even think of upgrading.
19:13:04 <lewyssmith> OTOH I have things I do not want to lose: Opera 12.
19:13:05 <wilcal> for now Remi is in the gatering phase and next (weeks) Council meeting there will be discussions
19:13:17 <wilcal> At least not in this one case
19:13:34 <wilcal> I don't support cutting new iso's
19:13:52 <wilcal> If you are upgrading you should have the on-line repos enabled
19:14:13 <lewyssmith> Have new ISOs been propsed?
19:14:31 <wilcal> Remi brought it up in his message on the QA mailing list
19:14:56 <wilcal> So with just a few of us here can I get some kind of concensis on this
19:15:00 <lewyssmith> I thought he said problems could be fixed by updates.
19:15:19 <wilcal> IMO M5 KDE -> M6 Plasma upgrade is not recommended
19:15:36 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Concensus on what?
19:16:09 <hviaene> wilcal: agree
19:16:11 <wilcal> I will attend the next Council meeting and I'd like something to say for QA on this
19:16:44 <wilcal> Especially if you have an nvidia framebuffer
19:16:54 <lewyssmith> On this subject, no comment from me. Up to the user to try. If upgrade does not work, install from new.
19:17:09 <wilcal> "not recommended" is less severe then saying don't do it
19:17:18 <lewyssmith> Agree.
19:17:30 <wilcal> Back up first then give it a go
19:17:38 <lewyssmith> Just so.
19:17:58 <lewyssmith> And read the Releae & Errata notes on the subject first.
19:18:19 <wilcal> I don't think the problem is mentioned strongly enough
19:18:27 <hviaene> shy
19:18:47 <wilcal> Maybe I can convince the Council to put some stronger words in the Errata
19:18:59 <lewyssmith> Charles' upgrade test was severe, so it can fly if properly fiddled. Perhaps not with nVidia.
19:19:08 <wilcal> Big Bold Letters "BACK UP FIRST"
19:19:44 <lewyssmith> I said that somewhere: upgrade wiki?
19:19:59 <wilcal> So I will carry these thoughts into the Council Meeting
19:20:10 <lewyssmith> Good fellow.
19:20:19 <wilcal> Should be at the top of the Wiki in bold letters
19:20:33 <lewyssmith> Feel free to edit it!
19:20:46 <wilcal> Not without the Councils OK
19:21:22 <wilcal> Anyway I've got some good points to use here
19:21:25 <lewyssmith> Ask whether other desktops & NOT nVidia are working, please.
19:21:56 <wilcal> The few times I've done an upgrade here , no nvidia, it worked with a basic system
19:22:37 <wilcal> that being say the M5 x86_64 LiveDVD, update that, then upgrade it. It worked but there was still some desktop cleanup
19:22:50 <wilcal> no other apps installed
19:22:54 <wilcal> hi be
19:23:06 <lewyssmith> Ah, Ben. Hello.
19:23:25 <benmc_> Hello all
19:23:29 <wilcal> We are discussing the problems with upgrades M5 -> M6
19:23:50 <wilcal> Remi is asking for comments to be discussed at next Council meeting
19:24:31 <benmc_> Yes, I sent  few apparent on the forum
19:25:10 <wilcal> My position has always been that nvidia M5 KDE -> M6 Plasma is not really doable
19:25:33 <wilcal> Not without serious fixing to get it working right
19:25:45 <wilcal> Anything to add ben
19:26:30 <benmc_> I note that the "upgrade icon" has gone
19:26:49 <lewyssmith> Could be a good thing in the circumstances!
19:26:59 <wilcal> Yup took it off there because of all the pain
19:27:32 <benmc_> So probably best to advise against kde upgrades as they also seem to be probblemmatic
19:27:54 <wilcal> Anything but "Don't do it"
19:28:13 <lewyssmith> Has any other distribution done it successfully?
19:28:53 <benmc_> Must go, may catch you later
19:28:59 <lewyssmith> Upgrades apart, is there any feedback for M6 per se?
19:29:44 <hviaene> Not that I can think of right now
19:30:08 <wilcal> I'm not really having any issues right now
19:30:42 <wilcal> I'm still seeing some kmserver errors
19:31:04 <wilcal> a simple ctrl-alt-backspace gets out of that
19:31:21 <wilcal> I've got one more platform here to switch over
19:31:40 <lewyssmith> Next topic, perhaps, Bill?
19:31:43 <hviaene> I have one system where I cann't make MCC to ask the root pasword
19:32:03 <hviaene> But I haven't been theu all possible settings yet
19:32:13 <hviaene> thru
19:32:21 <wilcal> other then that M6 works very well for me
19:33:08 <wilcal> More info next QA meeting
19:33:23 <wilcal> lets move on
19:33:24 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates
19:33:31 <wilcal> Big stack there
19:33:39 <wilcal> Got to get back in there
19:33:47 <lewyssmith> Long list, but Herman has done lots & I am cxhasing him.
19:34:04 <lewyssmith> We will get it down.
19:34:11 <hviaene> What s that word???
19:34:12 <wilcal> one ok, espeically if it's x86_64, is ok to push
19:34:27 <lewyssmith> hviaene: chasing
19:34:32 <wilcal> Yes, we'll work it down in the next week(s)
19:34:57 <wilcal> Lots of things in there I'm not familiar with
19:35:15 <lewyssmith> Same for all of us. Look for previous bugs is best.
19:35:28 <hviaene> Perltidyheartbreak
19:35:51 <lewyssmith> One for Len?
19:36:02 <wilcal> Wish I could learn to use OpenVPN :-(
19:36:44 <lewyssmith> Some people have it for lunch. A question of finding & poking them.
19:36:49 <wilcal> So lets leave it at that. Do as best you can on the list and lets hope we can get it down by next QA meeting or at least not any longer
19:37:13 <wilcal> So on to
19:37:14 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else?
19:37:15 <lewyssmith> It will be less, unless David does something nasty beforehand.
19:37:20 <hviaene> I might have a case to have to setup a vpn, but that won't be tommorrow
19:37:25 <wilcal> No need to drag this on anything else??
19:37:40 <hviaene> None here
19:37:45 <lewyssmith> Nor me.
19:37:50 <wilcal> This little laptop simply loves M6 x86_64 Plasma no nvidia
19:37:55 <wilcal> :=)
19:38:02 <lewyssmith> Thanks again Bill for managing the IRC front.
19:38:11 <wilcal> loved it
19:38:27 <wilcal> So lets count it down
19:38:30 <wilcal> T-5
19:38:36 <wilcal> T-4
19:38:39 <hviaene> G'night
19:38:40 <wilcal> T-3
19:38:45 <wilcal> Bye all
19:38:47 <wilcal> T-2
19:38:48 <lewyssmith> Goodbye to the faithfull!
19:38:53 <wilcal> T-1
19:39:00 <wilcal> #endmeeting