19:04:18 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:04:18 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Jun 15 19:04:18 2017 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:04:18 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:04:22 <lewyssmith> krisNL, TJ is probably on the land. Once the season starts, that takes all one's time.
19:04:40 <lewyssmith> Hello Len.
19:04:40 <wilcal> welcome to #chair lewyssmith
19:04:44 <hviaene> Lewys: French  used to = onions and snails
19:04:45 <wilcal> #chair lewyssmith
19:04:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal
19:05:00 <wilcal> Anyone new here?
19:05:22 <lewyssmith> #topic Anyone new?
19:05:42 <wilcal> does not look like it
19:06:06 <wilcal> #topic Mageia 6
19:06:27 <wilcal> Quite a few updates today but all went well
19:06:42 <lewyssmith> I have a question for Chris: I cannot see the GCalc crash at all. Was it Gcalc?
19:07:07 <krisNL> M6 KDE - missing gtk2 theme, gimp looks horrible
19:07:31 <krisNL> lewyssmith: only in 32bit, 64b is fine
19:07:41 <lewyssmith> Ah! Thanks.
19:07:49 <wilcal> In my e-mail I wanted to discuss the blocker list
19:07:56 <wilcal> is this a blocker
19:08:11 <lewyssmith> Be careful of that word, Bill.
19:08:17 <krisNL> what blocker?
19:08:29 <lewyssmith> One thing at a time, slowly.
19:08:45 <wilcal> the 32-bit gkt2 theme
19:08:50 <krisNL> nope
19:08:57 <wilcal> kool
19:09:02 <krisNL> just ugly
19:09:09 <wilcal> can it be fixed after release
19:09:44 <krisNL> its just that a user needs to install a theme, no fix needed
19:09:52 <wilcal> kool
19:09:59 <lewyssmith> What theme? For ERRATA?
19:10:11 <wilcal> blocker list is here:
19:10:13 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=VERIFIED&list_id=79272&order=assigned_to%2Cbug_id%20DESC&priority=release_blocker&product=Mageia&query_based_on=release_blocker&query_format=advanced&version=Cauldron
19:10:36 <krisNL> task kde needs adwaitgtk2 theme, and need to be set to use this theme
19:10:47 <krisNL> adwaita hmmm
19:11:39 <krisNL> its the same with gnome when installed via CI iso
19:11:44 <brian__> that sounds like a simple post impl fix
19:11:46 <hviaene> double dutch?
19:12:22 <wilcal> just overall can any of those items on the blocker list be fixed after release?
19:13:13 <brian__> TJ!
19:13:14 <wilcal> Hi tj
19:13:24 <tjandrews> Hi.
19:13:36 <lewyssmith> krisNL, I am under Gnome ex Classic ISO, Gimp looks fine.
19:13:36 <krisNL> ahhh, TJ is here, I called for him
19:13:46 <lewyssmith> tjandrews, Welcome TJ.
19:13:52 <tjandrews> Uh-oh...
19:14:06 <wilcal> Careful we'll put you in charge
19:14:14 <krisNL> lewyssmith: you have a multi de install, with adwaita-gtk2 included in xfce
19:14:36 <lewyssmith> True.
19:14:45 <tjandrews> Better not. T-storm going through, Internet service acting flaky.
19:15:08 <lewyssmith> Surely no-one would install *just* Plasma or Gnome from the Classic ISO?
19:15:21 <hviaene> I do
19:15:34 <wilcal> Interesting concept
19:15:36 <lewyssmith> Why not from the Lives?
19:15:45 <krisNL> what is bug #20810
19:15:46 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20810 critical, release_blocker, isobuild, NEW , After an upgrade from Mageia5->6, the first boot "hangs" with a black screen
19:15:59 <wilcal> Mageia does not "call home" so we have no idea how these things are installed
19:16:17 <lewyssmith> These 'blackscreens' are the current main issue, I think.
19:16:32 <wilcal> but, after 2nd boot is it ok?
19:16:44 <tjandrews> So do I. I'm a Plasma kind of guy.
19:16:55 <tjandrews> Personally, I just like the Classicals better. They are what I started with 15 years ago.
19:16:58 <krisNL> oh its just an upgarde issue?
19:17:25 <wilcal> Kool
19:17:39 <wilcal> my preference is netinstall
19:17:48 <tjandrews> Mandrake 8.2. Multiple CDs.
19:17:56 <lewyssmith> krisNL, Sometimes from the Plasma Live also.
19:18:10 <krisNL> after 4 weeks the CI's are terribly outdated
19:18:18 <wilcal> Remember the shrinkwarp Mandrake boxs in the late 90's
19:18:32 <lewyssmith> I *bought* those (pro sets).
19:18:50 <hviaene> I did once
19:18:54 <wilcal> gone are the days
19:19:09 <lewyssmith> krisNL, The Classic ISOs are not yet 4w old!
19:19:22 <tjandrews> When I saw it, I was finally able to get booted using the old M5 kernel. From there I got my updates, and all was well.
19:19:36 <krisNL> after release, then 4 weeks further, I meant to say
19:19:38 <tjandrews> The black screen, I mean.
19:20:03 <lewyssmith> I have never seen it, but Plasma is not my thing.
19:20:31 <brian__> I think I ran into it once, but upon reboot, like mentioned it was gone
19:20:35 <krisNL> has 20810 to be fixed?
19:21:05 <wilcal> IMO if your doing a KDE M5 -> Plasma M6 upgrade and a complex system your probably going to have issues
19:21:08 <tjandrews> I'm not sure it was necessarily a Plasma thing, Lewis. As I recall, it didn't get that far.
19:21:22 <lewyssmith> Anyhow, the bug list speaks for itself. My own M6 setups are trouble-free.
19:22:19 <tjandrews> Same here. Only trouble I had was with that one upgrade attempt. It COULD have just been my setup.
19:22:20 <lewyssmith> krisNL, 20810 is in red, so I suppose it must be fixed. I have yet to achieve an upgrade to try.
19:22:30 <brian__> I think the huge shift from KDE to Plasma should be mentioned as a risk with a recommended fresh install
19:22:52 <lewyssmith> We are still bemused why that happened.
19:22:54 <wilcal> I absolutely think that should be in the errata brian_
19:23:06 <kekePower> How many, by your estimates, are going to do an upgrade instead of a fresh install?
19:23:11 <krisNL> most of the release blockers don't have any activities for weks
19:23:19 <lewyssmith> Really?
19:23:28 <brian__> I kind of think it will be 50%
19:23:31 <wilcal> I think i want to take this to the Council
19:23:31 <tjandrews> I would also recommend against anu upgrade install if the only available Internet service is through wireless.
19:23:45 <krisNL> https://madb.mageia.org/tools/blockers/application/0
19:23:45 <tjandrews> wireless=wifi
19:23:51 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Current Blockers ]
19:23:53 <kekePower> that's a lot...
19:24:08 <wilcal> It's time to determine what's imporant on the blocker list and what's not
19:24:21 <brian__> it is, but that will be spread across gnome, plasma, xfce, mate, etc.
19:24:36 <brian__> but I suspect our base is 70% KDe
19:24:54 <kekePower> yeah, the default
19:25:30 <tjandrews> I would agree. It's what newbies see us recommend on the Classicals.
19:25:31 <brian__> and volume we saw in torrent
19:26:14 <wilcal> I agree that KDE/Plasma is the leading DE for Mageia
19:26:40 <wilcal> but in this case a KDE -> Plasma upgrade is chancy
19:26:47 <lewyssmith> 20810 & 21063 look the most serious. But both are 'sometimes'. Bill, can you say whether re-boot avoids them?
19:26:55 <krisNL> and with the most bugs, xfce has no major bugs
19:27:08 <kekePower> Does KDE have any clues to how a successful upgrade could be done?
19:27:16 <tjandrews> Goes back to our roots. Mandrake forked from Redhat with KDE as the default, where Redhat was Gnome.
19:27:50 <kekePower> yeah, I've used Mandrake since v5 (I think)
19:28:00 <lewyssmith> I think it is important that if a problem is resolved by re-login, re-start X or re-boot, it should not be a release blocker. Only if it does harm, or cannot be circumvented.
19:28:03 <wilcal> Gnome looked and felt a lot like Windows 98
19:28:16 <wilcal> back in the day
19:28:42 <kekePower> I've kind of never like the GTK look, but that's just me
19:28:50 <wilcal> I go back to the black screen thing. Is it persistant, does it go away after a couple of boots
19:29:01 <brian__> hmm - good question - the one-time reboot we did for gnome last time.
19:29:05 <lewyssmith> Only you can say.
19:29:13 <krisNL> kekePower: thats because the default gtk look in mga is not good
19:29:14 <tjandrews> When I reported it, and labeled it as a release blocker, I was unable to login at all. It wasn't until much later that I thought of the old kernel.
19:29:30 <wilcal> I've not seen a boot to black screen thingy here for awhile
19:29:48 <lewyssmith> Has anyone else other than Martin?
19:29:57 <tjandrews> If the Grub 2 menu showed the old kernel option as plainly as grub-legacy, I would have tried it sooner.
19:30:13 <brian__> I'm afraid to do my main instance, so limiting it to fresh mga5.1 builds and patched
19:30:25 <wilcal> so maybe all of this becomes a Council decision
19:30:30 <krisNL> tjandrews: can you nuke the bug, one less in the list
19:30:37 <brian__> has anyone made mga6 their prod box yet?
19:30:40 <wilcal> since a lot of them have not been worked in awhile and are intermittant
19:30:50 <krisNL> brian__: yes, me
19:30:55 <kekePower> @krisNL ;)
19:30:57 <lewyssmith> brian__, I backup my main M5 system (copy of) to try upgrades.
19:31:03 <wilcal> I have two systems here where M6 is the OS
19:31:21 <wilcal> My video editing machine and this nice little old Dell laptop
19:31:23 <brian__> ok - I've only got them as beta machines
19:31:29 <tjandrews> Yeah, I could do that. I speculated that it perhaps shouldn't be a blocker after all in my last comment.
19:32:09 <brian__> I'll stew on backing up and upgraded the main and see what happens
19:32:10 <wilcal> This little circa 2012 Dell laptop has never been better then with x86_64 M6
19:32:43 <lewyssmith> brian__, I can advise privately if you like; it is quite neat & quick.
19:32:43 <wilcal> So I'd like to present one blocker here that maybe we can take off the table
19:33:07 <brian__> :lewyssmith - thanks I'd like that
19:33:17 <lewyssmith> wilcal, [Bated breath]
19:33:45 <krisNL> wilcal: we're waiting
19:33:45 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21009
19:33:46 <[mbot> Bug 21009: major, release_blocker, kde, NEW , Plasma freeze on some copied application icons on desktop
19:34:01 <krisNL> oh my
19:34:05 <lewyssmith> This is trivial, Bill. Miles from a release blocker.
19:34:23 <wilcal> So if you drag and copy an icon from the launch menu to the desktop some icons freeze the Desktop
19:34:24 <brian__> ?  is it upgrade or fresh, I saw some chat, but?
19:34:33 <tjandrews> I have a Mageia 5 install on the machine that messed up before. I can try an upgrade tonight and see what happens. Biggest difference is that now this hardware has wired Internet.
19:34:36 <krisNL> nobody can reproduce this wilcal
19:34:37 <wilcal> if you simply link the icon there's never a problem
19:34:44 <wilcal> if you copy not link
19:34:57 <wilcal> copy filezilla or firefoz
19:34:59 <lewyssmith> We know that if you *link* the desktop icon, no probs. Aslo, I have no probs copying them.
19:35:06 <kekePower> what's the default behavior?
19:35:23 <tjandrews> Sounds like an upstream bug, Bill.
19:35:24 <wilcal> Ok I'll take that one off the blocker list
19:35:30 <lewyssmith> Good.
19:35:32 <krisNL> default is copy, and it works here
19:35:40 <lewyssmith> But it warrants an ERRATA note.
19:36:24 <wilcal> how about: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20874
19:36:25 <[mbot> Bug 20874: normal, Normal, kde, RESOLVED MOVED, Random ksmserver errors being reported, plasma-workspace
19:36:35 <wilcal> lots of folks have seen that one
19:36:37 <lewyssmith> wilcal, BTW Why create a desktop (2 click) shortcut, rather than taskbar (1 click) anyway?
19:37:10 <wilcal> I agree it's just Plasma allows you to do it
19:37:19 <brian__> I know people will do it, ever look at a Windows screen in your office?
19:37:29 * krisNL never sees the desktop, on;y applications
19:37:51 <lewyssmith> It is Windows user behaviour for people who do not know how to use menus.
19:37:51 <wilcal> so how about the ksmserver thing
19:37:55 <hviaene> @wilcal: I tried it, but it simply did nothing, no desktop icon, no blocking
19:38:03 <lewyssmith> Again never seen it.
19:38:11 <wilcal> agreed random
19:38:22 <wilcal> so should not be a blocker
19:38:23 <lewyssmith> How common? Who else sees it?
19:38:32 <krisNL> ksmserver is something for nicolas
19:38:34 <brian__> so that may not be a blocker per se, but be ready for a rush fix I suspect
19:38:47 <kekePower> I've an issue I haven't reported yet. When I click Reboot in SDDM, sometimes it seems that it skips the shutdown sequence and just powers down. This, sometimes, leaves the machine in a limbo state. See https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21080
19:38:48 <[mbot> Bug 21080: normal, Normal, bugsquad, NEW , ssh login disabled by /run/nologin after a reboot
19:39:26 <wilcal> Here's Martins bug for it: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21082
19:39:27 <[mbot> Bug 21082: normal, Normal, kde, NEW , Plasma shell occasionally fails to start on Live DVD
19:39:53 <lewyssmith> Live or post-install?
19:39:56 <wilcal> blocker or not
19:40:06 <lewyssmith> Not for me.
19:40:13 <wilcal> bost-install. I don't think I've ever seen this on a Live media
19:40:20 <wilcal> post-install
19:40:30 <lewyssmith> Does re-boot fix it?
19:40:35 <lewyssmith> Or re login?
19:40:53 <wilcal> I don't think it should be a blocker and likely can be fixed after release
19:40:54 <brian__> 21080 and 21082 are different animal though.  One if for remote
19:41:00 <krisNL> kekepower: the iscons are too small, it resumes, hibernates when i click on the wrong items, and system hangs
19:41:38 <wilcal> Hi Ben
19:41:46 <lewyssmith> Hello Ben. Up early!
19:41:52 <krisNL> hi ben
19:42:22 <Benmc> Hiya all.,( Lewis - disturbed sleep)
19:42:30 <wilcal> So wrapping this except for the boot to blackscreen there really is nothing on the blocker list that
19:42:34 <lewyssmith> Baby?
19:42:36 <wilcal> that's a blocker
19:42:44 <Benmc> yep
19:42:56 <wilcal> agreed all
19:43:04 <lewyssmith> Benmc, Hoisted by your own petard.
19:43:17 <wilcal> I will carry that message to the Council
19:43:45 <Benmc> there is a saying: " I co-opperated with the inevitable"
19:43:52 <lewyssmith> We must be careful that all these problems, and known workarounds, are decently documente din ERRATA.
19:43:54 <wilcal> :-))
19:44:13 <wilcal> onward
19:44:15 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates & Backports
19:44:44 <wilcal> I'm seeing no problems for me with Kodi
19:44:58 <lewyssmith> Things are looking good; but Herman & myself have toiled like slaves.
19:45:00 <wilcal> the bug seems to be a bit remote
19:45:15 <lewyssmith> wilcal, Just directory permissions, Bill.
19:45:16 <hviaene> I'll do your check tomorrow on Kodi
19:46:07 <lewyssmith> I will do the Firefox advisory after this meeting. Congrats to the 2 who tested that ultra quickly.
19:46:14 <wilcal> Seems to me that testing roundcubemail is quite complex
19:46:19 <kekePower> Thanks for bringing Kodi up to date
19:46:39 <lewyssmith> Beats me, always. The worst, with bitlbee.
19:46:45 <brian__> :wilcal - is that the one we test an install or ithat your career system?
19:46:46 <hviaene> roundcube: is it there again??
19:46:56 <lewyssmith> Yet again...
19:47:03 <wilcal> maybe that's just an update without errors
19:47:05 <wilcal> ya
19:47:26 <wilcal> Flash has come and gone ( 21 critical errors in that one )
19:47:27 <brian__> we need someone who actually uses it.  :-)
19:47:41 <lewyssmith> TJ4s weather site.
19:48:30 <brian__> sorry roudcubemail
19:48:42 <lewyssmith> !
19:48:54 <brian__> openjfx - I did the prelims on it, I'd say let it go
19:49:08 <wilcal> gotta kick M6 out the door so we can concentrate on updates
19:49:44 <lewyssmith> brian__, Can you say how to run your java script? You say 'javac' or something, which I find not.
19:49:55 <brian__> javac is the compiler
19:49:59 <brian__> java is the runtime
19:50:06 <lewyssmith> What command to use?
19:50:31 <brian__> you do both first compile then run.  Odds are you need ot path to javac
19:50:36 <lewyssmith> Perhaps add a comment to the bug, & I will have another go with your script.
19:51:08 <tjandrews> www.localsyr.com/weather/ is that weather site. Try to view the forecast video.
19:51:29 <brian__> sure
19:53:08 <wilcal> anything else on updates?
19:53:31 <lewyssmith> Please do not forget them.
19:53:49 <wilcal> yes.
19:53:50 <hviaene> not from me, Thursday = cycling day
19:54:05 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else?
19:54:19 <krisNL> we should release soon, really soon
19:54:40 <hviaene> Has anyone used Plasma with a secnd screen or beamer?
19:54:41 <wilcal> Please
19:54:49 <wilcal> Yes, I have
19:54:54 <lewyssmith> That needs careful consideration, & ERRATA, and correct Wiki etc.
19:54:55 <wilcal> one this Laptop
19:55:01 <hviaene> And ????
19:55:03 <wilcal> IMO it does not work
19:55:11 <wilcal> but NOT a release blocker
19:55:22 <wilcal> M5 works, M6 does not
19:55:45 <wilcal> IMO probably an upstream thing and that's why I didn't make an issue of it
19:55:58 <wilcal> after release I'll tinker with it
19:56:05 <hviaene> I wanted to convert my p"oduction laptop" to M6, but I need beamer to work.
19:56:13 <lewyssmith> Plasma again; or M6 generally?
19:56:30 <hviaene> Plasma
19:56:50 <lewyssmith> Gloom.
19:56:59 <wilcal> I'd like to support a 2nd display either terminal or HDTV
19:57:19 <wilcal> some reason this m6 laptop is not happy with it
19:57:34 <wilcal> I'll try it again when we close this meeting
19:57:34 <lewyssmith> Is this a duplicate display, or 1 spread over 2 screens?
19:57:37 <brian__> definitely need it, very common now days, just not on my home desk
19:57:45 <hviaene> Duplicate
19:57:48 <wilcal> 2 displays same info
19:57:53 <lewyssmith> Thanks.
19:58:38 <wilcal> Likely something that can be fixed after release
19:58:46 <hviaene> Hope so
19:59:04 <lewyssmith> Countdown?
19:59:11 <wilcal> Sooooo many issues with Plasma over this developement period
19:59:13 <wilcal> yes
19:59:14 <hviaene> OK for me
19:59:30 <wilcal> t-1
19:59:34 <wilcal> t-5
19:59:36 <wilcal> sorry
19:59:36 <lewyssmith> Thanks to all who came, and Bill for his sterling chairman role.
19:59:41 <hviaene> G'night all
19:59:43 <wilcal> t-4
19:59:46 <lewyssmith> Goddbye all.
19:59:47 <wilcal> bye all
19:59:52 <wilcal> t-3
19:59:53 <kekePower> Good night
19:59:57 <wilcal> t-2
20:00:00 <tjandrews> 'Night
20:00:01 <wilcal> t-1
20:00:05 <tarazed_> Bye
20:00:06 <wilcal> #endmeeting