19:02:35 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:02:35 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Sep 22 19:02:35 2016 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:35 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:51 <lewyssmith> Thanks for volunteering.
19:03:07 <wilcal> #chair lewyssmith
19:03:07 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal
19:03:17 <wilcal> ok anyone new here today
19:03:25 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Evening Len.
19:03:45 <lewyssmith> #topic: Anyone new?
19:04:05 <tarazed> hi Lewis.  Howzitgoan?
19:04:32 <wilcal> no one's raised their hands for being new
19:04:45 <lewyssmith> tarazed: You are talking like Bill!
19:05:07 <lewyssmith> #topic Mageia 5.1
19:05:10 <tarazed> Glaswegian for Comment allez vous?
19:05:15 <wilcal> ya M5.1
19:05:26 <wilcal> first CI isos have been out about a week
19:05:27 <brian_> any new classics coming?
19:05:32 <tarazed> Very few difficulties here.
19:05:36 <lewyssmith> We can forget M6 for the moment.
19:05:39 <wilcal> have to tooooooo many orphans
19:05:54 <wilcal> M6 on hold till M5.1 gets released
19:06:38 <brian_> black screen, missing libreoffice
19:06:44 <wilcal> Filezilla needs to get fixed
19:06:51 <lewyssmith> Anne has several corrections to make to re-build the Classic ISOs. Testers have done a good job identifying errors.
19:07:22 <wilcal> one really good things is a team is building isos rather then anne and tmb
19:07:47 <lewyssmith> I thought the team was more for Lives than Classic.
19:07:51 <krisNL> wilcal: all this stuff has the same cause: wrong packages on the iso
19:08:44 <lewyssmith> Which should be easy to put right.
19:08:57 <wilcal> I need to air something here
19:08:59 <wilcal> ready
19:09:09 <lewyssmith> Off you go.
19:09:25 <brian_> sure
19:09:34 <wilcal> If a CI or Live-media installs with orphans that immediately invalidates that iso(s) all stop
19:09:58 <lewyssmith> Have never encountered that.
19:10:21 <wilcal> M5.1 installs right out of the gate with over 30 orphans
19:10:55 <tarazed> Is that before system updates?
19:10:59 <krisNL> orphans can't work correctly when funny mix of packages
19:11:18 <lewyssmith> This surely goes back to Chris's point about 'wrong packages'.
19:11:22 <wilcal> urpme --auto-orphans
19:11:42 <wilcal> in a root terminal tells you how many orphans there are
19:11:57 <wilcal> One orphan and that iso is done
19:12:07 <wilcal> sorry to be so harsh
19:12:21 <lewyssmith> Some of us do not get that far...
19:12:39 <lewyssmith> hviaene: Good evening Herman.
19:12:47 <hviaene> Hi all
19:12:49 <wilcal> Hello hvia
19:13:03 <tarazed> G'day Herman
19:13:41 <wilcal> i did a boot.iso install of M6 today and both the i586 & x86_64 installs had orphans right out of the gate
19:14:08 <wilcal> removing the orphans was successful but sometimes that blows up the install
19:14:32 <wilcal> you can't tell what's gonna happen with those hanging around
19:14:33 <lewyssmith> ennael: Re 5.1, it is clear that we need updated Classic ISOs.  What is Anne's position on this?
19:14:44 <wilcal> some people never erase them out of fear
19:15:06 <lewyssmith> If they are left, they do no harm.
19:15:14 <wilcal> agreed M5.1 is going nowhere in it's present status
19:15:34 <wilcal> mmm good question but less risk to not erase them
19:15:47 <wilcal> but leaves a sloppy system
19:15:58 <wilcal> anyway I've had my say
19:16:02 <lewyssmith> Untidy, yes. That is all.
19:16:16 <krisNL> M5.1: only 2 issues, usb efi boot, and the correct packages, should be easy to fix
19:16:39 <wilcal> cross fingers we'll get M5.1 out by this time next week
19:16:44 <tarazed> + mising packages
19:17:09 <lewyssmith> krisNL: Chris, For 5.1 EFI boot, does it work from DVD?
19:17:57 <krisNL> don't know, have no optical medium, is last century ;
19:18:35 <tarazed> I might try that for the sake of completeness.
19:18:41 <lewyssmith> I suspect it will not work. I did not try it, but could. What you found missing looks fundamental.
19:18:58 <krisNL> tarazed: oh yes, please do
19:19:06 <tarazed> OK
19:19:49 <hviaene> I could do an USB installation on an EFI laptop, no problem in that
19:19:58 <krisNL> on the dvd layer of the iso is the uefi included, but i can be completey wrong
19:20:22 <wilcal> you can set a flag in Vbox and simulate an EFI install
19:20:41 <lewyssmith> That is not enough. This needs real HW.
19:21:21 <wilcal> i should get brave and change the bios on one of my machines to EFI
19:21:30 <lewyssmith> 5.1 has enough documented errors, I think we should rest it until it is re-issued.
19:21:37 <wilcal> just gotta make sure I can get back
19:21:48 <wilcal> i agree lewys
19:21:54 <lewyssmith> Move on?
19:21:59 <wilcal> we should get back to bugs I think
19:22:02 <wilcal> yes
19:22:11 <tarazed> wilcal: bearing in mind that efi needs GPT
19:22:25 <lewyssmith> #topic Updates to test
19:22:47 <wilcal> list is getting long again with lots of ok's
19:23:16 <wilcal> Ahh my favorite  is there again Wireshark
19:23:28 <brian_> I'll have to go back to the bsd ones, download and try again.
19:23:35 <tarazed> David and I have been having a real problem with openjpeg2
19:23:51 <lewyssmith> The list is just about under control, and most are manageable. I am doing things here again.
19:24:15 <wilcal> I will get to wireshark in the next couple days
19:24:26 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Len, you deserve a medal for the golang thingy. It was double Dutch to me.
19:24:33 <wilcal> fun to take it to the local library :-))))
19:24:55 <lewyssmith> I can do several of the bugs.
19:25:11 <tarazed> lewis: it was pretty simple to do after David's introduction to the build machine
19:25:52 <lewyssmith> Where, when?
19:26:28 <tarazed> lewis: It was part of the openjpeg2 investigation
19:26:48 <lewyssmith> Ah. Your nemesis.
19:27:33 <lewyssmith> The two most obscure things look like mailman & zookeeper. anyone know about them?
19:28:11 <wilcal> I think the theme of the meeting should be get back to basics testing updates till M5.1 & M6 get straightened out
19:28:48 <lewyssmith> hviaene: Herma, you too deserve a pat on the back for your sterling updates testing work. I find myself following you everywhere!
19:28:52 <wilcal> lemme see if I've tested either
19:29:11 <lewyssmith> wilcal: zookeper has not been seen before.
19:29:11 <tarazed> Agrees but I shall probably try the DVD route for 5.1
19:29:35 <lewyssmith> Len, I can try that too.
19:29:51 <wilcal> I've not looked at either
19:30:05 <hviaene> Lewyssmith: Tx a lot, I feel I cannot really spend as much tima as I wanted on QA
19:30:10 <tarazed> lewis: that would be good
19:30:46 <lewyssmith> It is  only the time to burn the DVD; it fails immediately.
19:32:12 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Bill, At what point do we allow just one OK? Now or later?
19:32:36 <wilcal> for sure if the ok is in the x86_64
19:32:48 <wilcal> also for sure if it's just a security update
19:33:27 <wilcal> Zookeeper looks like one of the career deals. Know how to test it and get a great job
19:33:51 <lewyssmith> I would prefer that the most important updates (bold) have 2 OKs.
19:34:10 <wilcal> for sure the bold updates
19:34:30 <brian_> what does the bolding mean - high usage?
19:34:41 <wilcal> I would ask everyone to document their testing in the bugs such that the next person to test it make it easy
19:35:06 <lewyssmith> If testing is well documented in the bug for 1 architecture, it should be much easier to follow for the other.
19:35:21 <wilcal> Bold is an important update and needs attention ASAP
19:35:53 <lewyssmith> Like Bill, I try to be pedantically verbose with testing comments.
19:36:10 <wilcal> too much documentatio is not enough
19:36:11 <tarazed> Touché wilcal.  Can add my notes to the attachments.
19:36:29 <wilcal> be as non-geek as possible
19:36:37 <brian_> now that will be impossible
19:37:01 <brian_> sorry about the humor I imbed sometimes.  I figure no one cares
19:37:17 <wilcal> back to my days at GE where documenting things ( engineering notebook ) was part of your job review
19:37:29 <lewyssmith> brian_: Feel free. I like such things.
19:37:32 <krisNL> i care
19:37:51 <tarazed> Yeah, we all do.
19:38:06 <wilcal> anyway back to bugs at least for the next days/week
19:38:14 <brian_> ok - no humor
19:38:23 <lewyssmith> No - keep it up.
19:38:37 <tarazed> That is what makes this place so great.
19:38:43 <brian_> I'll keep it non-offensive and rare
19:38:46 <lewyssmith> We are supposed to be human.
19:39:48 <wilcal> pretty clear on this i think
19:39:51 <brian_> that's what I've enjoyed
19:40:04 <lewyssmith> Is it worth changing topic to Luigi? I doubt that he is on line.
19:40:10 <lewyssmith> Png Luigi12
19:40:16 <wilcal> luigi time
19:40:22 <lewyssmith> ping Luigi12
19:40:34 <wilcal> #topic Luigi's Roundup
19:41:05 <wilcal> Haven't seen him for awhile
19:41:15 <brian_> ah - how work gets in the way
19:41:32 <rindolf> wilcal: saw him on #mageia today.
19:41:33 <wilcal> hello ben
19:41:38 <tarazed> I spoke to him earlier this afternoon
19:41:40 <lewyssmith> But he is around - he comments bugs, talks on the mailList.
19:41:47 <wilcal> ok
19:42:05 <wilcal> anyway list of bugs is dynamic so things are happening
19:42:07 <lewyssmith> Benmc: Hello Ben. We are almost done.
19:42:26 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Move on?
19:43:05 <wilcal> lets
19:43:08 <lewyssmith> #topic Anything else?
19:43:24 <wilcal> ya
19:43:32 <brian_> Running mga6 with xfce here.  Anyone else run into monitor sleep and no recover?
19:43:53 <wilcal> some chatter about people not using correct wording
19:43:55 <brian_> btw - it has been solid
19:44:06 <wilcal> lots of people here from lots of cultures
19:44:23 <wilcal> I listen for what people mean rather then how they say it
19:44:40 <lewyssmith> brian_: Brian, we are leaving M6 aside for the moment until 5.1 is out.
19:44:41 <krisNL> q: what is the correct way to make suggestions, adressed to a packager, I;ve sent waaly an email, is that ok?
19:44:48 <wilcal> for many folks in Mageia English is a 2nd or even 3rd language
19:44:54 <brian_> yeah - ditto, I consider it possible language translation or cultural.
19:44:57 <tarazed> brian: That happened on a few 5-RC installs.
19:45:31 <wilcal> for me it comes from over 35 years of dealing with people outside the USA
19:45:31 <Benmc> wilcal. Lewis, Good morning
19:45:36 <lewyssmith> krisNL: It should be; but if it in relation to an update/bug, *that* is the proper place.
19:45:49 <brian_> I'm always working with folks where English is their 2nd or 3rd language.  So ditto, look for meaning
19:46:01 <krisNL> brian_: disbale xscreensaver
19:46:06 <wilcal> especailly when things get contentious
19:46:11 <tarazed> wilcal: yes we need to read between the lines
19:46:26 <krisNL> no, suggestions for a better default appearance setting
19:46:33 <wilcal> I've been yelled at in many different languages :-)))
19:46:35 <brian_> krisNL:  thanks
19:47:05 <brian_> as I tell my team, I know when I'm getting cussed out, regardless of language
19:47:22 <tarazed> krisNL: noted and thanks
19:47:36 <lewyssmith> krisNL: I use private e-mails where it seems appropriate. The worst that can happen is that they are ignored.
19:47:49 <krisNL> ok
19:48:13 <lewyssmith> We are all in this boat together, after all. We should e able to talk directly.
19:48:18 <krisNL> ping sleepy wally_
19:48:20 <wilcal> anyway I've nothing else
19:48:28 <lewyssmith> Nor me.
19:48:37 <tarazed> I'm good
19:48:45 <wilcal> back to bugs is the word of the day
19:48:49 <krisNL> all said
19:48:59 <hviaene> Just one question on the openjpeg update
19:49:10 <tarazed> Oh no.
19:49:14 <lewyssmith> !
19:49:41 <hviaene> Is there an explanation for the /home/iurt/...... I mentioned in my comment
19:49:59 <hviaene> this does of course not exist on my laptop
19:50:41 <tarazed> Don't know yet.  That directory keeps coming up - I think it is some kinf of chroot thing.  Wish David was here.
19:50:59 <hviaene> And I remeber the same thing on another update about a yezr ago (???)
19:51:15 <wilcal> note that 4 of my test computers have a compatable removable HD drive system and I have a dozen or s drives to a <-> b between systems
19:51:29 <wilcal> makes life easier testing things and less risky
19:51:46 <hviaene> year
19:51:52 <lewyssmith> hviaene: Have you found that earlier bug?
19:52:08 <tarazed> hviaene: me too.  Must be a temporary construct.
19:52:27 <hviaene> No, I have been looking shortly for it just before joining
19:52:45 <lewyssmith> It might have the answer.
19:53:12 <hviaene> Yes, I give it another try tomrrow
19:53:20 <tarazed> It is to do with packaging so there might be some answers on the packaging wiki (?)
19:53:21 <lewyssmith> Anyway, if you two cannot sort it - no-one can.
19:53:55 <tarazed> :p
19:53:58 <wilcal> i'm done
19:54:08 <hviaene> me too
19:54:14 <lewyssmith> Countdown?
19:54:18 <wilcal> yup
19:54:24 <lewyssmith> -5
19:54:29 <lewyssmith> -4
19:54:30 <krisNL> thanks wilcal and lewys
19:54:30 <wilcal> thks all
19:54:31 <lewyssmith> -3
19:54:34 <hviaene> G'night all
19:54:44 <lewyssmith> Thanks to all for coming. A good meeting.
19:54:49 <lewyssmith> -2
19:54:49 <tarazed> Ciao amici
19:54:54 <lewyssmith> -1
19:55:11 <lewyssmith> Over to you, Bill.
19:55:22 <wilcal> #endmeeting