19:03:32 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:03:32 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Sep  1 19:03:32 2016 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:03:32 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:03:58 <wilcal> #chair rindolf
19:03:58 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: rindolf wilcal
19:04:09 <wilcal> rindolf is drafted :-))
19:04:18 <rindolf> wilcal: heh.
19:04:25 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
19:04:35 <wilcal> new people raise your hand
19:05:03 <ca-on-adam> I am not 100% new, but I want to start testing ISOs.
19:05:13 <ca-on-adam> So that is a new role for me.
19:05:20 <wilcal> any help is great help
19:05:51 <stratocaster7> I've been lurking awhile, and haven't joined anything yet, but I've been trying to figure out the good luck thing.
19:05:52 <wilcal> the CI's are the most recent but suffer from the "Good Luck" syndrome
19:06:07 <krisNL> I've already introduced myself last week
19:06:14 <wilcal> we'll get to that in the next section
19:06:28 <wilcal> intro yourself strato
19:07:36 <stratocaster7> I'm Mike. Live in Michigan US. Currently working IT at a school district so I have some hardware available. Previously spent over 20 years doing component level electronics repair at a big chain.
19:07:50 <wilcal> cool
19:08:14 <wilcal> "wilcal" for (Wil)liam in (Cal)ifornia, live near San Diego ( Surf City USA )
19:08:15 <wilcal> First official College computer class in Sept 1964, Computer Engineer 1968
19:08:35 <stratocaster7> Computers were fixed with an oscilloscope and a soldering iron when I started.
19:09:17 <wilcal> LOL
19:09:36 <wilcal> anyone else?
19:09:37 <krisNL> I'm Chris from Amsterdam, longtime M* Linux user, summoned here for live iso testing
19:10:07 <wilcal> very welcome here
19:10:16 <stratocaster7> Guess I should add that I've been around linux since Redhat 5.1 and mand* since 7.0.
19:10:33 <krisNL> holy frack
19:10:39 <rindolf> I am Shlomi from Tel Aviv, Israel.
19:10:42 <wilcal> Redhat has become quite the company
19:11:08 <stratocaster7> Hello everyone.
19:11:09 <tarazed> Len, one time astronomer/coder in Edinburgh, Scotland.  Programming since 1985.  Linux
19:11:20 <tarazed> since 1996, mainly Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia.  Probably oldest in this group.
19:11:58 <rindolf> stratocaster7: hi.
19:12:04 <tarazed> Mandrake was ahead of the game so I dropped RedHat.
19:12:10 <wilcal> How many folks here have officially used a card punch machine :-))
19:12:20 <tarazed> Yep.
19:12:39 <tarazed> Tape punches as well.
19:12:53 * krisNL doesn't even know what a card punch machine is
19:13:09 <stratocaster7> Nope - no punch card. But my first programming in college was on a single board with seven segment displays and a keypad.
19:13:26 <stratocaster7> Machine language.
19:13:48 <tarazed> Yesterday's raspberry pi!
19:13:58 <krisNL> thx :)
19:14:00 <wilcal> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keypunch
19:14:06 <stratocaster7> Only slower and couldn't do anything.
19:14:15 <wilcal> I have two Pi 3's here now
19:14:56 <wilcal> ok lets move on to the exciting section
19:15:11 <wilcal> * Mageia 6 - How's it looking? ( "Good Luck" Bug status )
19:15:26 <wilcal> #topic Mageia 6
19:16:00 <wilcal> kris you can always use the boot.iso to get an install that up-to-date
19:16:19 <wilcal> I do a boot.iso install about every 3-days
19:16:33 <krisNL> Thx, I know, have been doing that since weeks
19:16:56 <wilcal> I have a modular hd feature on three of my computers that makes things easy
19:17:05 <wilcal> that helps a lot
19:17:36 <krisNL> is bequimao around?
19:17:57 <Bequimao> Yes, krisNL
19:18:03 <wilcal> occasionally
19:18:09 <wilcal> hello
19:18:11 <krisNL> Hi ulli, guten ebend
19:18:13 <krisNL> abend
19:18:32 <wilcal> any testing of M6 will and should involve:
19:18:37 <Bequimao> Hello
19:18:47 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19216
19:18:48 <[mbot> Bug 19216: critical, release_blocker, kde, NEW , no graphical display, "good luck" error, sddm
19:19:09 <krisNL> Virtualbox status: we need nomodeset, the perl script coders can add this ... problem solved until we get a new versin VB and/or kernel
19:19:34 <wilcal> read through this bug to help you understand what is presently understood and get you to a working desktop or not
19:19:55 <wilcal> contribute your experiences good or bad
19:20:01 <krisNL> archlinux with VB 5.1.4 and kernel 4.7 or 4.8 see the same issue
19:20:17 <krisNL> they blame VB
19:20:26 <wilcal> arch linux is seeing the same "good luck" error
19:20:40 <Bequimao> nomodeset only the first time. After system actualization it is not needed here anymore.
19:20:42 <krisNL> no, they see the real issue
19:21:20 <wilcal> IMO M6 cannot obviously be released with this going on
19:21:23 <rindolf> krisNL: is it ok there with VBox 5.1.3?
19:21:26 <krisNL> kernel module vboxvideo not laoding
19:21:59 <krisNL> rindolf: don't have 5.1.3
19:21:59 <stratocaster7> I had just removed the generated xorg.conf on virtualbox. X builds it won't config that way and works. I thought it was still using modesetting. I know I didn't disable it.
19:22:45 <wilcal> I understand that the "good luck" message is a catch all for lots of potential problems
19:22:53 <krisNL> David Walser explained it posting mailing list.
19:23:48 <krisNL> Ulrich: whats the status on real hardware, after installing with the netinstall iso?
19:24:36 <stratocaster7> It has looked to me like X configurations were behind most of the good luck and systemd stuff behind the part in bug 18791.
19:24:37 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18791 normal, release_blocker, kde, ASSIGNED , SDDM segfaults - error 4 in libQt5Core.so.5.6.0 [was: Sorry but the graphical server failed to start (or words to that effect) then it starts after another 4 seconds], sddm, qt5
19:25:10 <Bequimao> I did not use netinstall but classical isos. Everything fine with AMD/ATI graphics.
19:25:55 <wilcal> note: I have 5 M6 installs here all working ( without autologinn ) and updating just fine. 4 in Vbox one on real hardware
19:26:04 <krisNL> rindolf: archlinux, they have only 5.1.4, they just don't load the kernel module with nomodeset, and they have no xorg.conf :)
19:26:19 <stratocaster7> I have an ati install [AMD/ATI] Caicos XT [Radeon HD 7470/8470 / R5 235/310 OEM] Dell Radeon HD 7470 that I can't get to work at all.
19:26:20 <rindolf> krisNL: OK.
19:27:42 <Bequimao> statocaster7: did you select plug & play? Which iso?
19:27:45 <krisNL> strato: with the old isos, or a fresh netinstall iso?
19:28:13 <stratocaster7> I've been using boot-nonfree.iso.
19:28:20 <stratocaster7> But yes, fresh.
19:28:33 <wilcal> I think now that we're into Sept ennael ( Anne ) will probably generate some new CI's
19:29:03 <stratocaster7> Bequimao: yes on plug & play - it was the default as I recall.
19:29:11 <wilcal> tmb generated the Live media i hope someone steps up to generate those again
19:29:54 <stratocaster7> I can repeat the ati again tomorrow and say something on IRC about the result.
19:29:59 <ennael> hi there
19:30:05 <krisNL> anyone know who exactly will build the live isos's?
19:30:12 <wilcal> hello anne just in time
19:30:16 <ennael> yep
19:30:17 <krisNL> hi anne
19:30:24 <wilcal> we're right in the middle of the M6 discussion
19:30:39 <ennael> yep just reading
19:31:00 <wilcal> share with us your thoughts on M6 and the "Good Luck" problem
19:31:44 <wilcal> Once I get up and running in Plasma x86_64 I actually kinda like it
19:31:48 <rindolf> Bye all - sorry, but I have to go to sleep.
19:31:55 <wilcal> bye rin
19:31:56 <rindolf> Good night all.
19:32:02 <rindolf> wilcal: bye
19:34:10 <wilcal> There's probably a handful off issues creating the error message
19:34:33 <wilcal> I think the heart of it is the use of sddm
19:34:52 <brian> question - does anyone know if opensuse uses sddm?
19:35:05 <wilcal> that I don't know
19:35:09 <Bequimao> yes, it does.
19:35:21 <wilcal> I think Plasma won't work without it
19:35:48 <wilcal> so we're stuck with it
19:36:12 <wilcal> Am I right in saying M5 did not use sddm?
19:36:34 <stratocaster7> Mine doesn't.
19:37:02 <Bequimao> it uses kdm. that will be a problem for upgrade from mag5 to cauldron.
19:37:05 <tarazed> I switched to using it  for Mate but not plasma
19:37:47 <brian> from my playing around - 42.1 is the smoothest plasma implementation i've seen to date
19:37:49 <tarazed> Soory, kde
19:37:50 <wilcal> so can we state that sddm is the root of this problem(s)
19:38:23 <brian> kubuntu is a beta test in my opinion.
19:38:51 <Bequimao> fedora 24 kde is fine.
19:38:55 <krisNL> wil: the root of what problem? not booting on real hardware?
19:39:16 <wilcal> the catch all "Good Luck" error message
19:39:48 <stratocaster7> I think it would be premature to call it sddm. When X doesn't work I don't think sddm *can* work.
19:39:48 <krisNL> no, the good luck message is just a lovely text message
19:40:38 <krisNL> the dm doesn't start when X has a problem
19:40:44 <Bequimao> btw. when I had the "good luck" error here, I found that drakx11 is a really awfull tool.
19:40:56 <wilcal> I ask a sensitive question. Who is the Mageia sddm maintainer and is he/she over their heads?
19:41:37 <stratocaster7> If PID's are any indication it looks like the failure message service is starting before the display manager service from what I see with systemd-cgls - at least of those PID's are sequential. That addresses bug 18791.
19:41:38 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18791 normal, release_blocker, kde, ASSIGNED , SDDM segfaults - error 4 in libQt5Core.so.5.6.0 [was: Sorry but the graphical server failed to start (or words to that effect) then it starts after another 4 seconds], sddm, qt5
19:42:09 <krisNL> sddm has no problem, I believe, it's the underlying stuff thats going on, but thats just me, i can't test it on real hardware. in VB sddm is fine, once we do the workaround.
19:42:14 <wilcal> ya that's a goofy think isn't it?
19:42:41 <brian> .stratocaster - you may be onto it.  A spin up issue
19:42:49 <brian> order of events
19:42:50 <wilcal> where is the "workaround" properly documented?
19:43:01 <wilcal> lets get this on the record here
19:43:44 <stratocaster7> Some of the same systemd stuff was used on mga5 and works there but there has been some added for mga6.
19:43:53 <krisNL> the workaraoun in VB is: start with nomodeset, in grub2
19:44:49 <ca-on-adam> I might be completely off-topic but my experiences with this 'good luck' error message under VirtualBox were to blacklist the vboxvideo module.
19:44:56 <wilcal> in M6 just like I do in M5?
19:45:23 <krisNL> 3 methods: nuke xorg.conf or nomodeset or blacklist vboxvideo. all three work.
19:45:32 <stratocaster7> And all I've done is remove /etc/X11/xorg.conf on the VB install I have right now. There are multiple ways to skin that cat.
19:45:38 <wilcal> ok I'll give it a go
19:46:04 <Bequimao> workaround: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17233#c12
19:46:06 <[mbot> Bug 17233: normal, Normal, tmb, NEW , MGA6 plasma5 Live: No go with Plasma for older Radeon graphics
19:46:42 <stratocaster7> Bequimao: ah - that might address mine
19:46:51 <brian> interesting to me - if nuking the xorg.conf does something, that means something is corrupting it along the way.  I assume it builds a new default
19:47:09 <stratocaster7> But I'm doing boot-nonfree instead of live.
19:47:44 <stratocaster7> I'll do another VB tomorrow in addition to the radeon.
19:47:54 <wilcal> sounds like a plan
19:48:12 <wilcal> anyway lets move on
19:48:30 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates
19:48:39 <krisNL> brian: in VB deleting the xorg.conf means: the offending kernel module will not be in use, thus it's booting fine, because x will care about the modesetting for the dm.
19:49:55 <brian> ok - something I'll need to learn more about
19:50:09 <wilcal> I was work'n on the qemu bug and David just took that one off the table :-((
19:50:29 <wilcal> I'll move on to the new Virtualbox
19:50:42 <wilcal> see how M6 deals with that
19:51:46 <wilcal> anyone else struggling with updates issues?
19:52:15 <wilcal> list is of moderate length
19:54:16 <brian> just time to do them is all
19:54:24 <wilcal> there's easy proceedures for mariadb
19:54:35 <wilcal> ya that's always the case
19:54:59 <wilcal> I'll look at the Vbox update this weekend
19:55:34 <wilcal> tinker as best you can. I always say touch something 5-days a week
19:55:48 <wilcal> any other thoughts here
19:56:52 <wilcal> Luigi is off line for now hopefully we'll here from him next week
19:57:04 <brian> none from me - plan to do openvpn over the weekend
19:57:06 <wilcal> #topic Luigi's Roundup
19:57:25 <wilcal> David's been working the updates even today
19:57:53 <wilcal> so hopefully again we'll see some help develop here
19:58:24 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else?
19:58:40 <ennael> (sorry guys, network is just bad at the moment..)
19:58:52 <wilcal> your back :-))
19:59:03 <wilcal> do share with us your thoughts on M6
20:00:51 <wilcal> rats anne's got network probs I think
20:02:58 <krisNL> would be nice to get some news about building live isos's
20:03:20 <wilcal> ya new CI's would be helpful and those come from anne
20:03:37 <wilcal> lets wait a few before counting down
20:04:01 <krisNL> I ahd a quick look in the draklive scripts, they are more complicated than six years ago.
20:04:58 <wilcal> it's called progress right?
20:05:25 <krisNL> i call it drak perl drama ;-)
20:05:58 <wilcal> there was 1028 lines of 8-bit code in the Apollo moon lander
20:07:01 <wilcal> I took an entire course in logic simplification. Actually did quite well at it :-))
20:07:42 <wilcal> anyway I think anne's off line. Cross fingers and watch the qa e-mail messages
20:08:14 <brian> will do
20:08:14 <wilcal> count down time and keep testing that M6 and bugs
20:08:21 <wilcal> T-5
20:08:30 <wilcal> T-4
20:08:32 <ca-on-adam> T-3.5
20:08:33 <krisNL> thanks wil :)
20:08:37 <wilcal> T-3
20:08:38 <brian> 3.14
20:08:39 <wilcal> thanks all
20:08:45 <wilcal> T-2
20:08:54 <wilcal> T-1
20:08:57 <wilcal> #endmeeting