20:02:00 <DavidWHodgins> #startmeeting
20:02:00 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Feb 18 20:02:00 2016 UTC.  The chair is DavidWHodgins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:02:00 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:02:06 <MrsB> ohh beaten to it
20:02:08 <DavidWHodgins> #chair MrsB wilcal lewyssmith
20:02:08 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB lewyssmith wilcal
20:02:19 <MrsB> #topic Who's new?
20:02:25 * MrsB is dave
20:02:32 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:02:53 <DavidWHodgins> Faster than my copy/pasting
20:03:13 <MrsB> Is there anybody new here today?
20:03:26 <DavidWHodgins> Doesn't look like it
20:03:33 <MrsB> don't think so, looking at the list
20:03:56 <MrsB> Let's add a mageia 6 topic
20:04:01 <MrsB> #topic Mageia 6
20:04:08 <MrsB> tmb ennael about?
20:04:34 <lewyssmith> [They are both connected]
20:04:56 <MrsB> yes, wecan maybe catch them later
20:05:07 <MrsB> morning tarazed alfred__ lebarhon
20:05:08 <lewyssmith> tarazed: Evening Len.
20:05:13 <wilcal> Wow M6 even boot.iso don't boot
20:05:17 <tarazed> Hi there.
20:05:29 <MrsB> Yeah stuck on isolinux isn't it?
20:05:42 <alfred__> Morning Claire
20:05:59 <MrsB> Let's move on then and keep an eye open for them. We can come back to this later
20:06:08 <MrsB> #topic Testing updates
20:06:13 <MrsB> Just in time Len
20:06:27 <tarazed> Had to finish my cup of tea
20:06:40 <DavidWHodgins> Just 389-ds-base ready for testing. It has a procedure in older updates
20:06:48 <wilcal> I put a little time into testing nvidia and ran into the same problems
20:06:49 <MrsB> http://madb.mageia.org/tools/updates
20:06:53 <lewyssmith> The list is super short for once. People have done a great job
20:06:58 <wilcal> i586
20:07:06 <MrsB> We've done really well between us, good team stuff going on
20:07:19 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: That's nvidia-current?
20:07:24 <wilcal> yes
20:07:31 <lewyssmith> ....04?
20:08:14 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17604
20:08:37 <DavidWHodgins> Hmm. No mbot today
20:08:39 <wilcal> the update bricks the system
20:08:49 <lewyssmith> It looks like a rare one that works on one arch, not the other.
20:08:58 <MrsB> #info Lewis is going to begin uploading advisories, which will be a great help
20:09:14 <wilcal> x86_64 seems to be fine
20:09:33 <lewyssmith> MrsB: When you have replied to my latest questions!
20:09:39 <MrsB> I did do :P
20:09:47 <MrsB> oh were there more?
20:10:17 <lewyssmith> A barrage! All easy.
20:10:33 <MrsB> yeah I think i'm up to date on replies
20:10:44 <lewyssmith> Cannot afford to go wrong...
20:11:01 <rindolf> bye all - I'm going to sleep.
20:11:13 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Any mistakes can be fixed after the fact
20:11:25 <MrsB> it's not that bad, you can commit changes if you miss something. Just try not to wipe out all the rest, use svn diff :)
20:11:35 <MrsB> nite rindolf
20:11:46 <lewyssmith> MrsB: Yes, just seen your latest reply, thanks.
20:11:55 <rindolf> MrsB: thanks! Good night.
20:11:56 <tjandrews> rindolf: Be rested.
20:11:57 * MrsB gets gold star
20:12:05 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:12:21 <MrsB> So who's going to have a go at 389-ds-base?
20:12:40 <MrsB> it's been updated a number of times so you should find a procedure on bugzilla
20:12:42 <DavidWHodgins> I'll give it a try in a few hours
20:13:01 <lewyssmith> Depends on the weather tomorrow for me: bad, yes; good, no.
20:13:20 <DavidWHodgins> Had to fix up my testing environments, after losing the computer I was using as a local server
20:13:31 <MrsB> I think we should have glibc relatively soon too. That's going to be a high priority update to be tested ASAP as it's serious but also receiving press attention.
20:13:37 <DavidWHodgins> Think I have everything ready now.
20:13:56 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17394
20:13:59 <DavidWHodgins> For glibc, just being able to boot and start a desktop is sufficient testing
20:14:15 <MrsB> yeah. There is actually a PoC but it may be tricky to use
20:14:17 <wilcal> Luigi should update us on that
20:14:29 <lewyssmith> And more, no doubt.
20:14:45 <MrsB> it's not ready yet so nothing to update us on, just be aware that when it lands it needs priority please
20:14:58 <tarazed> #Does it need several testers?
20:15:14 <DavidWHodgins> No
20:15:17 <MrsB> not necessarily, but it never hurts
20:15:23 <tjandrews> If all I have to do is check for a desktop, I can handle that.
20:15:27 <brian__> I'll watch for it
20:15:29 <DavidWHodgins> One test on each arch
20:15:38 <lewyssmith> For things like this, the more the merrier.
20:15:45 <DavidWHodgins> It's like the kernel. Low level enough that both arches need testing
20:15:47 <wilcal> if it comes late i can get it too
20:15:47 <MrsB> it's fundamental to the system so if it were broken there would be obvious effects
20:16:14 <MrsB> thanks guys, keep an eye open for it
20:16:29 <MrsB> We've pretty much cleared the list haven't we
20:16:38 <MrsB> Len's had some late nights
20:16:44 <wilcal> Gives us time for M6 right?
20:16:50 <MrsB> yeah hopefully
20:16:53 <DavidWHodgins> Till Luigi12_work gets more time. :-)
20:17:08 <MrsB> I'd like us to be in this position every time we expect isos really. We should aim to be at least
20:17:17 <lewyssmith> Len has done a hell of a lot lately. Thanks.
20:17:27 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, Thanks
20:17:28 <MrsB> tarazed: ^^
20:17:32 <tarazed> just the easy ones
20:17:42 <lewyssmith> Too modest...
20:17:47 <MrsB> keep plugging away :)
20:18:06 <lewyssmith> Move on?
20:18:13 <MrsB> Everybody has done their bit and played their part so well done all of us
20:18:19 <MrsB> yep
20:18:38 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's roundup
20:18:46 <MrsB> ping Luigi12 Luigi12_work
20:18:51 <tarazed> And I am sure Dave appreciates Lewis's help, or will.
20:19:04 <lewyssmith> Live in hope.
20:19:10 <DavidWHodgins> Claire has done a lot of the advisories too
20:19:24 <MrsB> we share the load
20:19:29 <lewyssmith> Yes, she has done a good cavalry episode.
20:19:43 <MrsB> and akien sometimes and I tawt a taw a luigi once or twice as well
20:19:44 <tjandrews> Now watch Luigi come up with a LOT of upcoming updates...
20:19:55 <lewyssmith> Shhhh
20:20:20 <lewyssmith> We may get away with nothing, today.
20:20:22 <MrsB> I guess he's busy aswell
20:20:29 <MrsB> could be a short one
20:20:38 <MrsB> final ping for Luigi12_work
20:20:53 <DavidWHodgins> ping Luigi12_lappy
20:21:15 <MrsB> #info Luigi12 unavailable tonight
20:21:23 <tmb> I have some...
20:21:26 <lewyssmith> So...
20:21:29 <MrsB> Ohh
20:21:46 <tjandrews> I knew it was too good to be true...
20:21:48 <wilcal> more kernels no doubt
20:21:49 <tmb> there will land glibc, qemu and more fixes to xen
20:22:14 <lewyssmith> Those last two are always a pain.
20:22:27 <MrsB> #info tmb will be sending us glibc (priority please) & qemu and xen fixes too
20:22:56 <MrsB> qemu is easy, there is  aone liner
20:23:01 <MrsB> a one liner
20:23:19 <MrsB> xen not played with yet, lewis you and Dave usually do that one
20:23:21 * Luigi12_work is here
20:23:23 <Luigi12_work> sorry
20:23:29 <MrsB> ahh welcome back
20:23:36 <lewyssmith> Hello David.
20:23:39 <MrsB> #info Luigi12 is here
20:24:30 <Luigi12_work> so yeah the glibc's coming.  Most severe issue affects DNS resolution, but IINM there will be other fixes too.
20:24:44 <Luigi12_work> the PoC for the DNS issue shouldn't be too hard to use if anyone's interested
20:24:52 <wilcal> DNS lookup or serving?
20:25:03 <MrsB> lookup
20:25:07 <Luigi12_work> the issue is with DNS lookup, the PoC has both server and client components
20:25:26 <MrsB> there's a link on the bug for that
20:25:30 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Both. The server has to return more than 2048 bytes, and then the client crashes
20:25:31 <wilcal> so go to cnn.com if that works it works
20:25:33 <Luigi12_work> basically allows you to test against a test malicious DNS resolver and then verify that the client will crash
20:25:44 <wilcal> ahhh
20:26:14 <MrsB> it's been around since 2008 apparently
20:26:22 <Luigi12_work> doktor5000 took libvirt back for now.  Apparently it's just buggy crap and he had to file a bug upstream.  I guess he's waiting on a response.
20:26:22 <DavidWHodgins> Does it crash the kernel, or just the application doing the lookup?
20:26:27 <Luigi12_work> just the application
20:26:59 <Luigi12_work> I imagine it'll take a week or so before there are real weaponized exploits in the wild
20:27:18 <MrsB> we'll get it pushed asap though guys please
20:27:27 <MrsB> bas press etc
20:27:29 <MrsB> bad
20:27:34 <brian__> trick is - we can expect application updates as well.  So app fixes may pour in?
20:27:42 <Luigi12_work> fixes for what apps?
20:28:05 <DavidWHodgins> brian__: No. The apps all call a system level routine that is the only part that has to be fixed
20:28:08 <brian__> from the notes,any applications that use glibc as the compiler
20:28:14 <Luigi12_work> glibc isn't a compiler, gcc is
20:28:25 <brian__> sorry - just what i'd read
20:28:31 <Luigi12_work> glibc is the standard C library that basically everything uses.  it's a dynamic library, so only it needs to be updated
20:28:44 <DavidWHodgins> glibc is just a compliation of subroutines that applications call
20:28:49 <Luigi12_work> users will need to reboot once it's installed for the updated library to be used by everything
20:29:11 <Luigi12_work> keep that in mind while testing too, you need to reboot after updating it
20:29:17 <MrsB> it *should* tell you to reboot if you update the packages with mcc
20:29:20 <Luigi12_work> yep
20:30:02 <tmb> so does update with urpmi
20:30:25 * MrsB never noticed
20:30:35 <alfred__> hm, waht about "systemctl daemon-reexec"
20:30:38 <tmb> "you should reboot for glibc" should show up
20:30:50 <Luigi12_work> oh yeah it prints that at the very end
20:30:52 <DavidWHodgins> alfred__: glibc is lower level than systemd
20:30:58 <alfred__> ah
20:31:05 <MrsB> ok cool :) that msg slipped under my radar
20:31:10 <lewyssmith> Are we clear to quizz tmb about ISOs?
20:31:11 <tjandrews> If it crashes my system, be prepared for a frantic question about how to remove it again.
20:31:16 <MrsB> One moment lewis
20:31:28 <MrsB> Any other updates coming Luigi12_work?
20:31:41 <Luigi12_work> alfred__: I think postfix automatically gets restarted when glibc is updated, but the only way to ensure everything using it gets the new one is to reboot.  Restarting applications and services will do for those applications and services, of course.
20:31:47 <doktor5000> Luigi12_work: yes I do wait for upstream wrt. libvirt - although I'm open for any clues or help
20:31:54 <DavidWHodgins> tjandrews: The only way to remove it would be to boot from another system (live, etc.), then chroot into the environment and revert the change.
20:32:06 <Luigi12_work> doktor5000: yeah I'm clueless
20:32:42 <MrsB> test glibc in a VM if worried
20:32:50 <Luigi12_work> I haven't tested libvirt since helping to QA a mga4 security update, and I didn't like how it made root take ownership of the user's VM, and it had some other issues too
20:33:10 <Luigi12_work> anyway, yes there are other updates on the horizon
20:33:11 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: As it's a dynamic library, doesn't that mean one copy is shared by everything that uses it, so the only way to reload it would be to reboot?
20:33:20 <Luigi12_work> DavidWHodgins: no, not quite
20:33:25 <doktor5000> Luigi12_work: me neither, only at work on RH6, and even RH7 has a much older version
20:33:48 <Luigi12_work> DavidWHodgins: if it changes on disk, any new applications linked to it that are started will load and share the updated one.  Ones that are already running will continue to use the already-loaded old one.
20:33:54 <tjandrews> MrsB: will try it on my secondary computer first - the one I can do without if necessary.
20:34:04 <doktor5000> Luigi12_work: actually I've one set of packages from a good build, that's the mga5 1.2.9.2 plus the fix for the CVE, no further upstream fixes
20:34:06 <Luigi12_work> which is why RAM usage goes up if you update a bunch of libraries on a running system, as you'll end up with both versions in memory.
20:34:27 <MrsB> probably wise. We've never had issues with it so don't be too concerned and I'm sure tmb will test it before handing it over
20:34:30 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Ok. Thanks for the clarification
20:34:54 <DavidWHodgins> The fun of being a qa tester. :-)
20:35:02 <Luigi12_work> doktor5000: if you can find which upstream patch after that point needs to be reverted, we might be able to deal with that, as long as it doesn't cause conflicts with any later patches
20:35:20 <DavidWHodgins> First test in a vbox image using a snapshot that can be rolled back, easily.
20:35:21 <Luigi12_work> doktor5000: so you could try bisecting it if you're interested.  Would be helpful to upstream to know which patch broke it too.
20:35:26 <MrsB> yep. I've only ever once broken an installation and that time a effectively rm -rf the whole lot with lxc :(
20:35:40 <DavidWHodgins> lol
20:35:45 <Luigi12_work> yeah I remember that :o)
20:35:51 <MrsB> how we laughed
20:36:17 <MrsB> anywayzup, what's coming up David please?
20:36:59 <Luigi12_work> ok, so Ubuntu backported patches to samba3 for the CVEs that we still haven't fixed.  I thought we needed to update to samba4 to fix them (samba3 is EOL), but if Ubuntu's patches work for us, we might not need to for now.  I need samba removed from updates_testing so I can try it.  Also the current samba4 build is breaking building VLC, which we also need to update on mga5.
20:37:47 <MrsB> #info ubuntu has backported patches for samba3 so may be able to avoid update to samba4
20:37:53 <Luigi12_work> we need to update webkit2 to the latest version, and anything using webkit that gets ported to webkit2 needs to be updated.  That's slow going though.
20:38:07 <Luigi12_work> tmb has a qemu update coming soonish
20:38:17 <MrsB> yep he said about those
20:38:37 <Luigi12_work> there's another jasper CVE that actually has a patch, so we might update that again at some point
20:38:39 <MrsB> #info webkit2 needs a versin bump which means lots of packages will be rebuilt too
20:38:51 <Luigi12_work> xdelta3 is unmaintained but needs to be updated
20:39:06 <Luigi12_work> graphicsmagick vulnerabilities were reported, we'll hopefully get fixes one upstream fixes them
20:39:14 <Luigi12_work> still waiting on a chromium-browser-stable update
20:39:31 <Luigi12_work> still waiting on rindolf to backport patches for botan
20:39:40 <Luigi12_work> still waiting on postgresql updates
20:39:53 <MrsB> #info updates coming for jasper again, xdelta3 ( currently no maintainer), graphicsmagick,  chromium-browser-stable, botan, postgresql
20:39:53 <Luigi12_work> filed a bug with oden as asterisk needs to be updated
20:40:02 <Luigi12_work> filed a bug with tv as libreoffice has 2 CVEs
20:40:03 <DavidWHodgins> We don't have a botan package in Mageia 5
20:40:15 <Luigi12_work> :v -r 5 -s botan
20:40:16 <Sophie> Luigi12_work: 1.10.8-4.mga5 // core-release-src (Mga, 5, x86_64), core-release-src (Mga, 5, i586)
20:40:18 <Luigi12_work> we do
20:40:26 <Luigi12_work> it's a library
20:40:38 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. libbotan1.10
20:40:43 * MrsB pokes Sophie
20:40:48 <Luigi12_work> bottom line is, I need more packager involvement with security updates
20:41:15 <MrsB> #info *** More packager involvement is required in building security updates ***
20:41:21 <Luigi12_work> I had a whole bunch more work dumped in my lap a couple weeks ago that will keep me busy for months, we've had lots of snow dumped on us which has cost me lots of work time and set me behind, and I can't do everything, as you know
20:41:31 <MrsB> ennael Akien please ^^^
20:41:47 <Akien> +1
20:42:01 <MrsB> could you poke people please Akien
20:42:05 <MrsB> make it known etc
20:42:11 <Akien> Yeah that's an important point. I'll try a poke sometime this week-end
20:42:18 <Akien> Please poke me if I don't :D
20:42:23 <MrsB> will do :)
20:42:32 * Akien prepares an inspirational speech.
20:42:36 <Luigi12_work> nice
20:42:41 <Luigi12_work> looks like that's all for the roundup
20:42:48 <MrsB> Thans then David
20:42:50 <MrsB> k
20:42:55 <Luigi12_work> maybe hamster-time-tracker too
20:42:57 <Luigi12_work> just saw that one
20:43:01 <MrsB> Any questions for Luigi12_work?
20:43:08 <Luigi12_work> not sure why there's a package called hamster-time-tracker, but oh well
20:43:15 <MrsB> #info and hamster-time-tracker too
20:43:44 <DavidWHodgins> Have to keep track of how many times it can turn it's wheel. :-)
20:43:54 <MrsB> #topic Anything else?
20:44:00 <MrsB> that only leaves this..
20:44:07 <MrsB> Is there anythign else?
20:44:09 <DavidWHodgins> Elections
20:44:11 <lewyssmith> M6?
20:44:13 <MrsB> lewis, go ahead
20:44:46 <lewyssmith> Any progress (to tmb)?
20:45:19 * tmb hides
20:45:24 <DavidWHodgins> lol
20:45:37 <wilcal> I'd really like to see the boot.iso's work again
20:45:41 * MrsB pulls open the curtain
20:45:59 <tmb> nah, seems we have had some breakage introduced by distro rebuild...
20:46:13 <Luigi12_work> ouch
20:46:37 <DavidWHodgins> Should we wait till mass-rebuild is done before trying to get it going again?
20:46:39 <MrsB> #info Mga6 ISOs are being hampered by breakage introduced during the mass rebuild
20:46:42 <tmb> maybe syslinux needs some patching, maybe it does not like our new gcc
20:47:11 <tmb> on the good side gnome/gtk has entered feature freeze so it's stabilizing
20:47:28 <MrsB> good, we'll need to keep pace with it then
20:47:33 <Luigi12_work> (the software perhaps more so than the packages)
20:48:32 <tmb> so I will try to rebuild new isos this weekend, I just need to focus on security updates right now
20:48:57 <DavidWHodgins> Definitely security should be the higher priority
20:49:13 <lewyssmith> Agreed.
20:49:40 <MrsB> #info tmb will try to build some isos at the weekend
20:49:51 <MrsB> thanks tmb
20:49:55 <MrsB> how are you btw?
20:50:15 <tmb> and I need to figure out why nvidia-current fails feature detection on mga5/i586 during build
20:51:11 <tmb> Another thing I've been thinking of is maybe we should roll up mga5 to kernel 4.4 to keep braswell/skylake users happy
20:51:18 <Luigi12_work> ok hamster-time-tracker issues don't affect mga5, nevermind that one
20:51:36 <MrsB> saw you'd been building backports
20:52:02 <DavidWHodgins> Any regressions expected with newer kernels?
20:52:02 <MrsB> #info hamster-time-tracker update doesn't affect mga5, scratch that one
20:52:11 <tmb> MrsB, as for myself... going on a day by day... still waiting for results on last tests/scans
20:52:27 <MrsB> that's incredible, they're taking ages
20:52:52 <tmb> MrsB, yeah, I was thinking of keeping it in backports only first, but it means 2 sets of kernels for me to maintain...
20:53:03 <DavidWHodgins> Took 18 months for me get get diagnosed with fibromyalgia
20:53:17 <MrsB> got a busy week for you here anyway but don't overdo it. If you can delegate some, do do
20:53:32 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. Rest when you need to
20:53:32 <lewyssmith> tmb: Wish you well, anyway. Don't do yourself ill for Mageia.
20:53:47 <tmb> Not that I need to keep same speed/priority updates on backports as I need for updates
20:53:51 * Luigi12_work still doesn't know what's wrong with his leg, doctors are stumped
20:54:00 <Luigi12_work> that's weaksauce compared to everyone else though, so I shouldn't complain :D
20:54:06 <MrsB> got a bone in it
20:54:13 <Luigi12_work> two of them actually apparently
20:54:35 <MrsB> do sec updates first pls tmb yeah
20:54:37 <Luigi12_work> yeah that's why I don't want to backport anything
20:54:41 <tjandrews> Now you have me feeling guilty because I'm relatively healthy.
20:54:43 <Luigi12_work> it basically becomes another distro version to support
20:55:07 <Luigi12_work> tjandrews: guess you haven't been hanging around us long enough then :o)
20:55:18 <DavidWHodgins> That'll be fun when we go back to having two stable releases to maintain
20:55:32 <MrsB> :(
20:55:48 <MrsB> So anyway, that's mga6
20:55:55 <MrsB> Now elections
20:56:00 <Luigi12_work> DavidWHodgins: at this rate they won't overlap much :O
20:56:11 <DavidWHodgins> If we stall it long enough, we can stay with just one release to maintain. :-)
20:56:15 <MrsB> It'll soon be time to elect team leadership. Normally follows soon after fosdem
20:57:12 <MrsB> What I think everybody agrees is going to be the best way forward is to eect two or 3 leaders, rather than one leader and several deputies
20:57:13 <lewyssmith> April 1st?
20:57:30 <DavidWHodgins> We have 3 positions on the council. Within the team, we can have what ever structure we want. The council reps don't have to be leaders too, just always have been in the past.
20:57:53 <MrsB> it's difficult, especially as we grow, for one leader to keep up and be available all the time (as you've noticed)
20:58:38 <MrsB> If we have 2 or 3 actual leaders, one should always be available
20:58:39 <DavidWHodgins> I think we should stick to a leader, with the only difference between a leader/deputy leader, is that the leader makes the final decision, when ever there is disagreement
20:59:12 <MrsB> so there you go, two different proposals
20:59:14 <DavidWHodgins> Other than that, no real difference between the posistions of leader/deputy
20:59:23 <MrsB> whiat do you guys think?
20:59:24 <lewyssmith> I like the idea of 2-3 joint 'leaders'.
20:59:32 <wilcal> sounds like a plan
20:59:37 <MrsB> which one?
21:00:02 <wilcal> 3 joint leaders with one able to make final decision
21:00:21 <DavidWHodgins> One leader of leaders. :-)
21:00:37 <MrsB> that sounds a bit like it is now
21:00:41 <wilcal> Most equal of equals
21:00:43 <tjandrews> Whatever structure we have, there should be a provision for a tie-breaker, just in case.
21:01:31 <tjandrews> So, if equal leaders, an odd number.
21:01:32 <wilcal> can't have a tie with 3 and leader leader can overrule other two leaders
21:01:36 <DavidWHodgins> With three leaders, that would normally be automatic, except when there are 3 different views
21:01:50 <lewyssmith> Compromise!
21:01:58 * Luigi12_work can't imagine a tremendous amount of disagreement among QA leadership
21:02:07 <lewyssmith> Sensible.
21:02:09 <MrsB> That would avoid the need for deputies really
21:02:11 <Luigi12_work> and you always have to be careful about doing things "by committee"
21:02:15 <tjandrews> I only bring it up because two was proposed as a possibility.
21:02:16 <DavidWHodgins> Very rare, and has always been on minor points
21:02:21 <Luigi12_work> anyone in a leadership position should feel empowered to make decisions
21:02:41 <lewyssmith> 3 is a good number for agreeing things.
21:02:54 <alfred__> wilcal: that's what we call 'primus inter pares'
21:03:01 <DavidWHodgins> It's worked well so far, so I don't see a need to change that
21:03:36 <Luigi12_work> as long as we don't have any "mom said no, let's go ask dad" issues, we should be fine :o)
21:03:45 <DavidWHodgins> lol
21:04:04 <MrsB> Ok so it seems we have two options. 1) have one leader & two deputies, where the deputies are leaders in all but tite and the leader has final decision. 2) have 3 leaders and vote on things.
21:04:04 <DavidWHodgins> Don't think that type of thing has ever happened so far
21:04:22 <tjandrews> Two CAN work, if the people mesh well, or if the responsibilities are divided.
21:04:23 <DavidWHodgins> I prefer option 1
21:04:39 <Luigi12_work> yeah I'd prefer 1 between those
21:05:03 <wilcal> Soooo many memories of this kind of stuff wow
21:05:04 <Luigi12_work> the other option would be like I said, if there are multiple leaders, they all feel empowered to make decisions autonomously.  Having to vote is where I see an issue.
21:05:08 <lewyssmith> With 3, the need to vote would not really arise.
21:05:23 <Luigi12_work> like tjandrews said, that would allow dividing up the work better
21:05:33 <tjandrews> Our farm is two equal partners, but each has areas where he has the final say in a dispute. In 20 years, that has yet to be tested.
21:05:39 <MrsB> 3 =1 really
21:05:47 <lewyssmith> Simply there is fundamental agreement, little discord.
21:06:00 <DavidWHodgins> All responsibilities are shared, except when there is a disagreement and a final decision has to be made
21:06:01 <Luigi12_work> yeah and I think we've worked together long enough that QA members are on the same page
21:06:28 <MrsB> it has to be a team effort whichever we go for
21:06:28 <DavidWHodgins> And disagreements are rare, and have been very minor. Can't think of any off hand.
21:06:37 <Luigi12_work> the main disagreements tend to happen when us pesky packagers get involved :o)
21:06:42 <wilcal> This team has worked well
21:06:51 <lewyssmith> Is working well.
21:07:04 <Luigi12_work> s/us/we/  (grammatical error)
21:07:34 <MrsB> So are we saying mostly let's keep it how it is but share the work more?
21:07:56 <Luigi12_work> that's a good idea.  no one person should feel overburned with responsibility, if that can be avoided.
21:07:56 <lewyssmith> Does that not happen automatically?
21:08:10 <DavidWHodgins> I think we've been sharing pretty well as is, so just keep doing what we've been doing.
21:08:14 <MrsB> it has lately yes, by necessity :D
21:08:56 <MrsB> Ok, to summarise then. 1 leader, two deputies who are leaders in all but title and share the reponsibilties
21:09:03 <tjandrews> Sounds good to me. Option 1.
21:09:07 <DavidWHodgins> Yep
21:09:09 <tarazed> Agreed
21:09:15 <alfred__> +1
21:09:18 <brian__> +1
21:09:18 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone disagree?
21:09:20 <lewyssmith> I'm easy.
21:09:37 <MrsB> Please do speak up if you disagree or have a different idea
21:09:46 <wilcal> I'm fine with it
21:09:48 <wilcal> FWIW the most successful corporate environments I have worked in are an absolute dictatorship. Do it the CEO way or your out.
21:09:53 <Benmc> works for me
21:09:59 <MrsB> i'll send this to the ML aswell to formalise it and allow others to have a say
21:10:13 <DavidWHodgins> Yeah. Not everyone is available for irc
21:10:26 <tjandrews> MrsB: YOUR opinion?
21:11:11 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: that tends to work less and less these days.  Generational gap.
21:11:22 <lewyssmith> What is being proposed is surely the status quo?
21:11:29 <MrsB> I try not to have one until I've seen other peoples, so people have their say first
21:11:47 <MrsB> yes, it is more or less.
21:12:07 <DavidWHodgins> If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :-)
21:12:16 <lewyssmith> True.
21:12:36 <MrsB> alright then. Thanks everybody.
21:12:45 <MrsB> We'll have elections soon-ish
21:13:15 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone who would like to run for the positions should post to the discuss ml, and then we should have an election
21:13:17 <MrsB> every team will go through this process so will bring it up at the next council meeting
21:13:36 <MrsB> qa-dsicuss dave. we'll email the process then though
21:13:46 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
21:14:04 <MrsB> anybody can put themselves forward btw
21:14:13 <lewyssmith> Or propose another?
21:14:23 <MrsB> no not propose another, that's not fair
21:14:37 <lewyssmith> They can always say no.
21:14:38 <brian__> ;-)  donald trump?
21:14:54 <DavidWHodgins> You can privatly encourage others, but that shouldn't be done publicly, in my opinion
21:15:01 <MrsB> That's called strong-arming
21:15:03 <wilcal> American Politics at this time is insane
21:15:04 <brian__> woops
21:15:29 <MrsB> That's two anythign elses already. Is there anything else else else?
21:15:39 <wilcal> not from me
21:15:41 <brian__> question - everyone doesn't have to stay though
21:15:54 <DavidWHodgins> Go ahead brian__
21:15:56 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins: It has happened in the past...
21:15:59 <brian__> I canpt post to QA-Discuss anylonger.  May be purposeful.  But if not, my id is broke
21:16:26 <MrsB> what error do you get brian?
21:16:30 <brian__> This function is disabled.
21:16:30 <Luigi12_work> lewyssmith: :o)
21:16:50 <MrsB> tmb any idea?
21:16:55 <Luigi12_work> brian__: you can't do it on the web interface, you have to do it via actual e-mail
21:17:08 <MrsB> ohh, yes that
21:17:09 <brian__> ahh - so Email to QA-Discuss DL
21:17:12 <lewyssmith> It is late here, so please excuse me. Goodbye all.
21:17:19 <brian__> by - goodnight
21:17:19 <Luigi12_work> if you need to reply to something, you can ask the web interface to send you back a copy of the message you want to reply to
21:17:21 <DavidWHodgins> It has to be sent to qa-discuss@ml.mageia.org
21:17:23 <tarazed> Bye lewis
21:17:32 <brian__> np
21:17:56 <MrsB> well that was easier than it sounded :)
21:18:05 <MrsB> anything else else else else?
21:18:10 <DavidWHodgins> Not here
21:18:22 <wilcal> i'm done
21:18:39 <MrsB> Thanks then everybody. Keep an eye out for glibc and possibly new isos!
21:18:43 <MrsB> T - 5
21:18:48 <MrsB> 4
21:18:50 <MrsB> 3
21:18:51 <MrsB> 2
21:18:53 <MrsB> 1
21:18:56 <MrsB> #endmeeting