19:05:05 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:05:05 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Jul 16 19:05:05 2015 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:05:05 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:05:30 <lewyssmith> #topic Who's new? If you're just joining QA come and introduce yourself
19:05:43 <wilcal> #chair wilcal lewyssmith
19:05:43 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: lewyssmith wilcal
19:05:47 <tjandrews> Hand weeding beans today, and the boss was kind enough to schedule a lemonade break for now.
19:05:52 <wilcal> ok good to go
19:06:28 <wilcal> #topic Who's new?
19:06:43 <wilcal> So see anyone here that's new?
19:07:33 <lewyssmith> Stony ground I think.
19:07:43 <wilcal> I don't think so
19:08:19 <wilcal> #topic Mageia 5 - Post-Morten. Anything we could do better?
19:08:46 <wilcal> I need to make a couple statements here for the record
19:08:58 <tjandrews> Uh-oh.
19:09:06 <tjandrews> :)
19:09:17 <wilcal> My training as an engineer was under some pretty rigid employment situations
19:09:27 <wilcal> so some of my thoughts are gonna be based on that
19:09:46 <wilcal> they probably don't work well in an orgainization like Mageia
19:10:22 <wilcal> I've been privaliged to work in some pretty prestigius organizations one being General Electric Corp
19:10:31 <wilcal> they are still pretty successful
19:10:48 <wilcal> anyway any thought about how to improve things
19:10:58 <neoser10> my last email may be contains some useful words
19:11:16 <wilcal> lots off good thoughts being shared by lots of people
19:11:30 <wilcal> IMO the 9-mo release cycle is not working
19:11:50 <lewyssmith> Too fast?
19:12:14 <wilcal> I think it's too fast too
19:12:22 <tjandrews> I've been very happy with Mga5.
19:13:04 <wilcal> I also like the FOSDEM show in Belgium in Feb as a good place and target to hit. That's one release per year
19:13:25 <wilcal> Hello Akien
19:13:29 <lewyssmith> Despite my post on the subject, I am not dogmatic: if a release timetable can work - fine. But it *does* need to be better assessed.
19:13:44 <hviaene> I've submitted a note to dave and Claire, I'll leave it up  to them fot firsts jugdment
19:14:19 <tjandrews> Here's a thought... Any idea if the changes expected for Mga6 will be as extensive as Mga5? The UEFI thing was a huge part of our problem.
19:14:19 <wilcal> A couple FOSDEM shows ago we didn't release at the show we did a couple weeks after
19:14:44 <lewyssmith> In fact, I seem to recall that shedules are based on estimated work.
19:15:09 <wilcal> Which begs the note that do note that during the summer Jul/Aug many/most Europeans are on Holiday
19:15:11 <tjandrews> If the hurdles aren't as high, it's easier to get over them.
19:15:46 <wilcal> so as a result of that things are really drag'n in update testing and people being at meetings like this
19:15:49 <hviaene> I dnt't agree with all that date stuff: upper levels to me should state what goes in a next release, and we work for that
19:15:56 <wilcal> so you kinda have a 10-month year
19:16:23 <lewyssmith> This time we commited to a schedule without any appreciation of the work involved. We can avoid that in the future.
19:16:26 <wilcal> So if M6 is to release say in Oct you got about 90-days to do so
19:16:43 <lewyssmith> I prefer Fosdem.
19:16:52 <hviaene> And i dearly miss a long time support release
19:17:03 <wilcal> I really really like the FOSDEM target but be flexable
19:17:50 <wilcal> Europeans also hoilday most of Dec so really you got a 9-mo year
19:18:06 <lewyssmith> You have a poor view of us!
19:18:18 <wilcal> No not at all
19:18:28 <hviaene> No, he's being realistic
19:18:35 <wilcal> I've lived and worked as an engineer for a Europen comany
19:18:43 <wilcal> in The NEtherlands
19:18:52 <wilcal> It's just the way the system works.
19:18:58 <tjandrews> I only get one week in August, and I have to fight for that.
19:19:06 <wilcal> Very different then the American system
19:19:26 <hviaene> How many of us are retired?
19:19:41 <wilcal> So all of this tells me I reallly like the 1x per year and target the FOSDEM show ( 1st week Feb )
19:19:55 <wilcal> but be very flexable
19:19:55 <lewyssmith> hviaene: Several.
19:20:24 <hviaene> Well , those take holidays all year round.
19:20:27 <wilcal> I am retired but still active as an Engineer
19:20:35 <wilcal> Kinda
19:20:37 <tjandrews> I for one don't expect to be able to afford retirement until approximately three years after I'm dead. ;)
19:20:55 <wilcal> Farmer for sure
19:21:11 <hviaene> America is a third world country socially
19:21:20 <wilcal> You got that right
19:21:35 <wilcal> 95% of Americans have never left the Country
19:22:07 <wilcal> How did the UEFI process impact the schedule?
19:22:08 <hviaene> Any support for an LTS release?
19:22:15 <tjandrews> Hey! That makes me part of the 5%! I've been to Canada several times.
19:22:48 <wilcal> I don't think we have enough contributers to support a LTS release
19:23:09 <lewyssmith> I fear you are right.
19:23:16 <hviaene> Why not, I don't need a new realase avery 18 months
19:23:21 <wilcal> Number of Americans who've never been outside USA/Mexico/Canada?
19:23:25 <hviaene> In fact I loath it
19:23:45 <hviaene> typos!!!
19:24:03 <wilcal> My position would be no enough Mageia people to do an LTS release
19:24:40 <hviaene> Min: forget the 18 month cycle completely
19:25:22 <wilcal> Take note from Intel and their Tick/Tock release schedule
19:25:46 <wilcal> Tick  technology upgrade, Tock process upgrade.
19:25:53 <neoser10> may be we can lts if wait for eol mga5
19:26:16 <wilcal> So maybe even releases are really just clean ups. Odd would be technology upgrades
19:26:53 <wilcal> The UEFI thing was a technology upgrade and took a lot of effort
19:27:01 <hviaene> Just read on Tick/Tock
19:27:31 <hviaene> That's a strategy, many others are possible, it is not science
19:27:46 <wilcal> Sooooo IMO M6 is really just a cleanup of M5
19:28:04 <lewyssmith> Technology changes should be the main reason for a new release, I think.
19:28:23 <wilcal> Apps can upgrade just not the underlying technology in the OS
19:28:41 <neoser10> yeah but new release commit bugs
19:28:56 <wilcal> Fixing bugs is cleanup
19:29:48 <lewyssmith> This is all Council talk, really.
19:30:14 <wilcal> We are formulating the QA message to the Council
19:30:23 <lewyssmith> True.
19:30:40 <wilcal> Lots of very good and spirited messages on the qa-message e-mail
19:31:49 <tjandrews> This is a community-based distro. The Council should at least listen to the community before making big decisions.
19:32:06 <wilcal> FWIW I've been "beat up" by Professionals :-)
19:32:48 <lewyssmith> tjandrews: Agreed.
19:32:48 <wilcal> Council is indeed listening
19:32:58 <tjandrews> Even the U.S. Army was easier on me than my parents were when I was younger.
19:33:05 <wilcal> But also it is July so it's gonna be slow to respond
19:33:39 <lewyssmith> This does not have to be decided *now*; just in good time for the next release.
19:34:05 <wilcal> True just keep adding your thoughts please
19:34:20 <wilcal> Everyones thoughts are respected and considered
19:34:55 <lewyssmith> It should be thus.
19:35:00 <hviaene> Phewsurprise angel
19:35:09 <tjandrews> Yes, it is July. And my bean patch isn't going to weed itself. I should get back to work.
19:35:28 <lewyssmith> Thanks for showing up.
19:35:45 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Move on?
19:35:48 <wilcal> We should probably move on
19:36:00 <tjandrews> All things being equal, and they rarely are, I wouldn't miss it.
19:36:16 <lewyssmith> #topic Testing updates
19:36:24 <wilcal> many thanks
19:36:44 <wilcal> Updates are piling up because it's Jul/Aug
19:36:58 <wilcal> I see the Flash thing finally got on there
19:37:13 <wilcal> I think that's gonna get pushed through quickly
19:37:44 <neoser10> we need test procedures to get involved with the unknown
19:37:56 <wilcal> I try to "touch" one update 6-days per week. Never On Sunday
19:38:36 <lewyssmith> hviaene: I asked you a question about cacti...
19:39:05 <hviaene> lewys: yes, I just read it 30 min. ago
19:39:29 <hviaene> I'll do my best to answer you tomorrow morning
19:39:50 <hviaene> Too tired now after 110 km bycycling.
19:40:12 <wilcal> Please pic on one a day if you can. Not necessarily complete / push it just give it a go
19:40:29 <lewyssmith> hviaene: I have got further, but am not sure about a couple of details. I will revise my question. TIA. Too hot for cycling.
19:40:57 <hviaene> 28�C here today
19:41:23 <lewyssmith> 38 here.
19:41:32 <wilcal> I'm watch'n le Tour every day.
19:41:53 <lewyssmith> I will have a go at Flash tomorrow.
19:42:21 <wilcal> It'll be pushed within an hour or two. It's really really really critical
19:42:37 <hviaene> I spent three days at the first cacti test case, damned mysql
19:42:48 <wilcal> Try it anyway
19:42:55 <wilcal> it's pretty easy to test
19:43:51 <wilcal> anyone here able to test CUPS
19:44:06 <neoser10> now that i remember named and dhcpd creates etc/folder but did not write nothing in it
19:44:27 <neoser10> i can this night -5 gmt
19:44:48 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16152
19:45:00 <wilcal> We need someone to confirm what I found
19:45:52 <neoser10> the remove and add to get printing
19:46:01 <lewyssmith> I don't see it in the list.
19:46:37 <wilcal> It's on the M5 list
19:47:06 <lewyssmith> Found it: greyed.
19:47:40 <wilcal> Even if you just make sure the update installs without error that will help. Sometimes we push stuff that installs cleanly
19:48:05 <wilcal> Lets move on
19:48:19 <neoser10> i will try with epson wifi l355
19:48:24 <lewyssmith> Should we formalise '1 architecture OK'  for the moment?
19:48:51 <wilcal> sorry I don't understand
19:49:11 <lewyssmith> Allow an update to be pushed if OK'd for just one arch.
19:49:26 <neoser10> no sure of that
19:49:53 <lewyssmith> It is not ideal, but very few updates are architecture sensitive.
19:50:23 <lewyssmith> A temporary measure because we are short & the list is long.
19:50:39 <hviaene> CUPS: one test OK if it concerns a cable connected printer
19:50:46 <Luigi12_lappy> AFAIK we're still using the temporary measure of validating if one arch is tested, so Flash can be validated
19:50:57 <hviaene> WiFi is another story
19:51:06 <wilcal> As long as the list stays about where it is now I'd like to wait on that till TMB and MrsB get back
19:51:07 <neoser10> as mrsb said to me only noarch are valid to this
19:51:19 <Luigi12_lappy> I gotta go soon, so let's get to the roundup if we're done discussing updates
19:51:30 <wilcal> Lets do the Round Up
19:51:43 <wilcal> # topic Luigi's Roundup
19:51:55 <Luigi12_lappy> no space
19:52:02 <wilcal> #topic Luigi's Roundup
19:52:06 <Luigi12_lappy> there we go
19:52:13 <Luigi12_lappy> roundup from vacation
19:52:15 <wilcal> Hit it Luigi
19:52:35 <Luigi12_lappy> so Thunderbird 38.1 is out, but there's a strange build issue in Cauldron, which is why it hasn't been built on mga4/mga5 yet (though it should build fine there)
19:52:55 <Luigi12_lappy> I think marja11 said it still has the bug she found, so not sure where to go with that one, I guess we'll see
19:53:33 <Luigi12_lappy> Olav reported a heap overflow DoS issue in gdk-pixbuf, so I guess we'll get a fix for that at some point
19:53:51 <Luigi12_lappy> a minor security issue in libunwind was reported, that's assigned to tmb
19:54:10 <Luigi12_lappy> there are new Java updates needed, so hopefully I can get to that early next week after getting back from vacation
19:54:25 <wilcal> when does tmb come back
19:54:30 <Luigi12_lappy> not sure
19:55:24 <Luigi12_lappy> there's some unicode issue in libidn that affects curl and wget.  It won't actually be *fixed* in stable releases, but whenever we update curl again, libidn support will be disabled to mitigate it.  wget also has a patch to work around the issue which is committed in SVN.  No imminent updates for that though.
19:55:37 <marja11> Luigi12_lappy: the upstream 38.1 still has that bug
19:56:08 <Luigi12_lappy> marja11: ok, I guess you already updated your upstream bug report
19:56:26 <marja11> Luigi12_lappy: but I assume it'll affect very few users..... and yes, I updated the upstream bug report
19:56:35 <Luigi12_lappy> also just saw new CVEs for rsyslog and springframework today, so we'll hopefully have updates for them some time soon
19:57:19 <Luigi12_lappy> looks like a new CVE in groovy too
19:58:16 <Luigi12_lappy> looks like that's it
19:58:21 <wilcal> Give us an update on the most recent Flash madness
19:59:44 <Luigi12_lappy> I've been on vacation this week so I don't know much, Anssi knows more
19:59:59 <Luigi12_lappy> hopefully all of the issues from the Hacking Team stuff are fixed now
20:00:23 <wilcal> The new rpm's are in updates_testing right now
20:00:41 <wilcal> It's one of the or the worst Flash compromise ever
20:00:52 <lewyssmith> Luigi12_lappy: Have a good holiday David. Thanks for joining us.
20:01:00 <wilcal> Thanks Luigi
20:01:20 <wilcal> lets move on
20:01:37 <wilcal> #topic Anything else?
20:01:50 <lewyssmith> You beat me to it.
20:01:56 <wilcal> :-))
20:02:16 <lewyssmith> Nothing from me, anyway.
20:02:36 <wilcal> I have nothing. Will go back and poke at that Flash update
20:03:04 <wilcal> anyone else
20:03:25 <Luigi12_lappy> looks like the rsyslog issue is debatable.  I think msec already mitigates it for us
20:03:39 <wilcal> we should try to keep these summer meetings as short as possible
20:03:52 <wilcal> thks liugi
20:04:26 <lewyssmith> Countdown Bill?
20:04:27 <wilcal> welcome swecarp anything to add
20:04:38 <wilcal> Ya we're pretty done
20:04:42 <swecarp> nothing to ad
20:05:04 <wilcal> Anything to add dio?
20:05:22 <wilcal> we're at count down
20:05:26 <lewyssmith> -5
20:05:34 <lewyssmith> -4
20:05:42 <lewyssmith> -3
20:05:47 <lewyssmith> -2
20:05:50 <lewyssmith> -1
20:06:02 <wilcal> #endmeeting