19:06:12 <DavidWHodgins> #startmeeting
19:06:12 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Oct 16 19:06:12 2014 UTC.  The chair is DavidWHodgins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:06:12 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:06:19 <DavidWHodgins> #chair wilcal
19:06:19 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins wilcal
19:06:28 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? If you're new, come and introduce yourself
19:06:51 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone here today that hasn't been to a qa team irc meeting before?
19:07:38 <DavidWHodgins> Doesn't look like it, so let's move on.
19:07:48 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Beta 1 ISOs - delayed
19:08:04 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Any word on the rpm/glibc problem?
19:09:02 <tmb> nope, not yet... and I have not had much time to devote to it :/
19:09:09 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Any word on the rpm/glibc problem?
19:09:35 <wilcal> We're already past the 14 Oct Beta1 date
19:09:40 <ennael> nope nothing for now
19:10:08 <Kernewes> the blog post's out, anyway
19:10:10 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: There was a blog post on the 14th explaining that it's being delayed.
19:10:19 <wilcal> ok
19:11:00 <DavidWHodgins> I also posted a link to the blog post on the alt.os.linux.mageia usenet group.
19:11:11 <wilcal> just read it
19:11:25 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Any eta for beta 1 release?
19:12:01 <DavidWHodgins> eta == estimated time of arrival
19:12:09 <ennael> when it's fixed
19:12:16 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:12:19 <DavidWHodgins> Ok
19:12:21 <ennael> :)
19:12:29 <lewyssmith> There is nothing we can do about it, anyway.
19:12:48 <wilcal> Continue to work on updates, and KDE
19:14:00 <lewyssmith> Move on?
19:14:01 <DavidWHodgins> #info Mageia 5 beta 1 has been delayed due to a bug in the interaction between rpm and glibc. Unknown at this point how long it will take to fix.
19:14:10 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Testing updates
19:14:50 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Let's include the kde testing in this topic.
19:15:04 <wilcal> I see tmb posted a new kernel
19:15:16 <wilcal> I'd like to say something about kde testing
19:15:56 <Kernewes> I think I've borked mine
19:15:58 <DavidWHodgins> Normally, for a bugfix kde update, we just have everyone use it for a week or so, and if no one finds major regressions, we validate it. We can not test every feature of every program.
19:16:28 <wilcal> Some years ago Ubuntu updated Gnome on a Friday afternoon and that update broke all Ubuntu systems for that weekend
19:16:38 <Kernewes> Confession - I tried to pick and choose packages knowing there were some apps I wouldn't be able to test, and now my KDE won't shut down
19:17:02 <wilcal> I want to make sure when we push this update that it's early in the week so if we have problems we have people available to fix them
19:17:09 <DavidWHodgins> Kernewes: What happens when you try to shutdown?
19:17:32 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: nothing, I can only do it from the CLI now
19:17:45 <Kernewes> can't even log out
19:18:05 <Kernewes> anyway we needn't go into that now
19:18:10 <DavidWHodgins> Kernewes: Please file a bug report. That's a serious regression (not happening here though).
19:18:18 <Benmc> kernews: try reboot from console
19:18:32 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: it's usually something I've done wrong
19:18:39 <lewyssmith> Developers have been insistent about updating *everything* one has.
19:18:43 <stef74> I see 2 issue for kde but it's not regression. I have the same with 4.11. I'm out, I make bug report in the week-end.
19:18:53 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: and like I said, I was picking and choosing packages so I could have missed an important one
19:18:56 <DavidWHodgins> Benmc: Most users never use the command line. If the shutdown/reboot icons are not working, that's a problem.
19:18:59 <lewyssmith> stef74: Thnaks.
19:19:49 <stef74> first is the problem or unlock session, and second issue is bad translation in french.
19:19:55 <wilcal> One thing that Claire did was do a new Gnome install, update that, enable
19:19:57 <wilcal> the testing_updates repo then install task_kde. And it worked so an updated
19:19:58 <wilcal> KDE does in fact work. Getting there is a challenge
19:20:07 <Kernewes> I'm busy now till Sunday but then I'll have another look at it and file a report if necessary
19:20:51 <lewyssmith> Why does *no-one* else have a go at Bacula? It is not difficult to set up if you follow the HowTo precisely.
19:21:08 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: does it take a long time to set up?
19:21:22 <lewyssmith> No. But you need to be meticulous.
19:21:23 <DavidWHodgins> Kernewes: Ok. Thanks. Let's plan on trying to get it validated next Wednesday, assuming the problem is limited, and others don'e encounter it.
19:21:46 <DavidWHodgins> s /don'e/don't/
19:22:18 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: the spelling doesn't matter as long as the apostrophe's in the right place :)
19:22:27 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:22:31 <Kernewes> I have a thing about apostrophes
19:23:23 <lewyssmith> wpa_supplicant looks a pig, and python-djblets not much easier.
19:23:35 <DavidWHodgins> I don't use this old keyboard very often. Generally just for irc meetings, so the keys are a little different than what I normally use.
19:23:53 <Kernewes> *if* I get a chance I'll have a look at Bacula
19:23:57 <wilcal> maybe just make sure wpa_supp installs without errors
19:24:04 <lewyssmith> That (mine)  looks like Klingon.
19:24:11 <DavidWHodgins> wpa_supplicant requres a wireless connection, which I don't normally have.
19:24:20 <Kernewes> but at the moment I can't even do an easy test without running into a glitch
19:24:25 <Kernewes> i.e. bash
19:24:39 <Kernewes> although in my defence that was really due to the server problems
19:24:47 <wilcal> I'll be working the kernel and Virtualbox stuff throught the weekend likely
19:25:18 <DavidWHodgins> I haven't rebooted yet, since today's kernel update. I'll do that after the meeting.
19:25:30 <wilcal> tmb should Vbox and kernel be worked both at the same time?
19:26:03 <wilcal> that's what I normally do
19:26:14 <DavidWHodgins> #info Assuming problems are not found, kde will be validated next Wednesday
19:26:15 <tmb> wilcal: well atleast they need to be pushed at the same time...
19:26:18 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Yes
19:26:37 <wilcal> I'll work those in the next days
19:27:10 <DavidWHodgins> If you see some kernel packages, but not vb or needed dkms modules, wait until the mirror has synced the rest of the update
19:27:13 <tmb> I have all but -rt kernels built now, so all will land in QA this time
19:27:17 <wilcal> I'm at a complete loss on how to properly test kde sorry
19:27:43 <Kernewes> I would have thought very few of us would manage to test the whole of KDE
19:27:43 <DavidWHodgins> Keep in mind there is a mass rebuild in progress, so mirrors are somewhat overloaded right now.
19:28:32 <DavidWHodgins> Kernewes: It's too big for anyone to test everything, so we just normally use it as usual, for about a week.
19:28:35 <wilcal> Do you just enable the updates_testing repo and go though apps one by one to see if they update and work
19:29:01 <wilcal> task-kde or task-kde-minimal were a complete bust for me
19:29:33 <Kernewes> the list wasn't alphabetical, that threw me at first
19:29:36 <lewyssmith> Bill : I will send you a sorted update testing pkg list, then use MCC to update whatever pkgs you have of it.
19:29:52 <DavidWHodgins> I create a snapshot (after ensuring all current updates are installed), then enable updates_testing, and use rpmdrake to install all available updates.
19:29:53 <wilcal> So you try the packages one by one rather then a mass update
19:30:18 <DavidWHodgins> I do a mass update, then test the various packages.
19:30:29 <wilcal> How do you even start
19:30:34 <Kernewes> +1
19:30:43 <lewyssmith> Do the mass update, then  just use KDE.
19:30:45 <DavidWHodgins> Some of the packages are really only being tested to ensure they install cleanly.
19:30:54 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Yep
19:31:11 <wilcal> task-kde don't work here in either hardware or Vbox
19:31:24 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: can I have a sorted list as well please?
19:31:43 <wilcal> nor does task-kde-minimal
19:31:47 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Start with a vb guest with task-kde4 installed, then create a snapshot, then enable updates testing, and install all available updates.
19:32:14 <lewyssmith> Kernewes: If I can find your e-mail address.
19:32:15 <Kernewes> there are packages for all sorts of extras as well though, like games and digikam
19:32:24 <DavidWHodgins> When you want to "go back", revert the snapshot, then delete it before testing other updates.
19:32:32 <wilcal> Ya i kinda tried that and my screen went from 1920x1200 to 1600x1200
19:32:46 <wilcal> never came back
19:33:29 <DavidWHodgins> kde seems to be overriding /etc/X11/xorg.conf now. The resolution has to be set, per user, using systemsettings.
19:33:51 <wilcal> so this thing is still moving
19:34:51 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: It's just a matter of getting used to what has changed, and what has to be done to get things working the way you want.
19:35:51 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone have any other questions on updates waiting for testing before we move on?
19:35:58 <wilcal> But your average user is not going to know that
19:36:26 <wilcal> On this system I'm using task-kde-minimal is what's installed
19:36:36 <wilcal> not task-kde
19:37:20 <wilcal> The average user sees the updates notice, allows it all, and expects to see no changes to their desktop
19:37:33 <lewyssmith> Kernewes: Do you dare write your e-mail address now?
19:37:42 <wilcal> should not have to go back through and reset-up their desktop settings
19:37:46 <DavidWHodgins> We can't control the changes made by upstream kde, or gnome, so users will have to learn.
19:37:55 <wilcal> groan
19:38:12 <DavidWHodgins> Not nice, but that is not something we can control.
19:38:19 <tmb> well it's not supposed to happend on stable releases :/
19:38:31 <wilcal> Get ready for lots of complaints on the support forum
19:38:38 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: yeah, I'm a rebel
19:38:54 <tmb> not for something that was supposed to be a "simple bugfix update"
19:38:58 <DavidWHodgins> It's already in Mageia 4, that systemsettings are overriding /etc/X11/xorg.conf
19:39:39 <wilcal> should I be running mageiaupdate in a terminal
19:40:03 <DavidWHodgins> Then again, I've been running the kde update for quite a while, so I'm not sure if that's true for the latest non testing version.
19:40:21 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Use the MCC sorted list.
19:40:52 <wilcal> so enable update_testing and let the mcc find out there's updates
19:41:33 <lewyssmith> Exactly.
19:41:43 <wilcal> well I'll tinker with that
19:41:54 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: I normally run "urpmi.update a" first, to ensure all repos are updated. It works as all of our repos have an a in their name.
19:42:01 <lewyssmith> I have just sent you that sorted pkg list to help.
19:42:05 <wilcal> tmb is there a change to the Vbox extensions on all this
19:42:47 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Normally when there is a vb update, the newer extension has to be downloaded/installed too.
19:43:55 <DavidWHodgins> Any other questions about current updates before we move on?
19:44:27 <wilcal> Not from here
19:44:45 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup
19:44:53 <DavidWHodgins> ping Luigi12_lappy
19:45:00 <DavidWHodgins> ping Luigi12_work
19:45:27 <stef74> and the last one?
19:45:37 <lewyssmith> [He may be teaching].
19:45:57 <wilcal> Ya I think he said that last week
19:46:38 <Luigi12_work> yep I am
19:47:01 <wilcal> Hello Luigi
19:47:15 <Luigi12_work> haven't read any of the meeting log yet, did anyone have any questions?
19:47:18 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. I know from the open source security mailing list, that there will likely be a critical security update for openssl.
19:47:42 <wilcal> saw some new kenels there nd Vbox tmb says more kernels on the way
19:47:42 <lewyssmith> On top of the current update?
19:47:53 <lewyssmith> SSL
19:47:58 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Just what's expected in the next week or so.
19:48:06 <wilcal> ssl should be easy
19:48:29 <wilcal> I use putty from another system on the LAN
19:48:41 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. Just check that https websites work.
19:48:55 <lewyssmith> wilcal: putty?
19:49:27 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: putty is used for ssh connections from m$ systems.
19:49:58 <wilcal> putty is an installable app that opens a graphic that allows an ssl link to another system on the LAN
19:50:12 <wilcal> easy test I do all the time
19:51:33 <Luigi12_work> openssl was assigned to QA right before the meeting started
19:51:38 <Luigi12_work> the drupal one is more critical though
19:51:55 <lewyssmith> I have looked at that & will try it.
19:52:04 <Luigi12_work> it allows SQL injection and possibly code execution to unauthenticated users, so basically if you're running Drupal -> owned
19:52:13 <Luigi12_work> so that one is a high priority
19:52:13 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Yep. Had to reload the web page to see it.
19:52:36 <Luigi12_work> then after than wpa_supplicant/hostapd, then after that openssl, the openssl isn't a "sky is falling" deal despite the hype
19:53:27 <DavidWHodgins> For openssl, it's a man in the middle attack, iirc.
19:53:31 <Luigi12_work> waiting on a build/linking error for FF in Cauldron right now before building the FF/TB updates for mga3/mga4
19:53:41 <Luigi12_work> so hopefully someone will help with that soon
19:53:55 <Luigi12_work> java7 update is waiting on a java8 update in Cauldron, still waiting on Fedora for that one
19:54:17 <Luigi12_work> also filed bugs for mariadb and ejabberd today, so hopefully those will be soonish
19:54:18 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Are you getting more co-operation from the packagers for security updates, or is that still a problem?
19:54:40 <Luigi12_work> still a problem
19:55:03 <DavidWHodgins> Ouch. We should discuss it again at the next council meeting.
19:55:12 <Luigi12_work> also filed a bug for claws-mail, but not sure if we'll update it
19:55:39 <Luigi12_work> since some have asked on IRC already, chromium update is also stuck due to not building
19:56:09 <DavidWHodgins> #info bug priorty - drupal, wpa_supplicant/hostapd, openssl.
19:56:46 <DavidWHodgins> #info packagers still not helping with security updates. To be discussed at next council meeting.
19:57:03 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Anything else?
19:57:53 <malo> sorry guys :-(
19:58:08 <malo> and girls
19:58:10 <Luigi12_work> I should thank philippem for his work on the python-djblets update though, that one took a lot of research
19:59:11 <DavidWHodgins> #info thanks to philippem for his work on python-djblets
19:59:32 <Luigi12_work> torque, python-requests, and golang updates recently pushed were done by other packagers, so there's been some activity
19:59:47 <Luigi12_work> but the list of outstanding issues is still huge
19:59:52 <malo> it's been slow ...
20:00:01 <DavidWHodgins> So things are getting better, just not as good as it should be.
20:00:22 <Luigi12_work> best way for me to remember what I've been doing the last few weeks is to look at the updates-announce list :o(
20:00:44 <DavidWHodgins> We'll have to get the council to push the packagers a bit more, I think.
20:01:15 <Luigi12_work> oden's working for skysql/mariadb now, so he doesn't have much time.  He did package the xerces-j2 update this month.
20:02:01 <Luigi12_work> another problem is there are some other packagers that are either missing completely or mostly missing
20:02:17 <Luigi12_work> not reading bug mails or the dev ml or coming on IRC much if at all for instance
20:02:45 <DavidWHodgins> There isn't much we can do about that, except drop their packages from cauldron.
20:02:50 <Luigi12_work> so if the council is going to be pinging (with a slingshot?) might be worth just reaching out and seeing how some of these people are doing
20:02:55 <lewyssmith> Tonyb_: Welcome back.
20:03:00 <Luigi12_work> yeah we'll need to drop some packages too
20:03:50 <Luigi12_work> I'm concerned about maintaining java8 for mga5 too, since there's no upstream for the tarballs anymore, we're dependent on Fedora for them now
20:03:57 <DavidWHodgins> During the next council meeting, I'll propose dropping any package that goes for more than 2 months with outstanding security updates in the stable releases.
20:04:26 <Luigi12_work> sander85 is already tracking the ones that are going unfixed for a long time, so we'll have the info available
20:04:37 <DavidWHodgins> Good.
20:05:03 <Luigi12_work> alright, back to class
20:05:11 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Thanks!
20:05:14 <lewyssmith> Goodbye & thanks.
20:05:19 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else?
20:05:29 <lewyssmith> Here!
20:05:38 <wilcal> Not from here
20:05:46 <stef74> DavidWHodgins: Yes!
20:05:58 <DavidWHodgins> stef74: Go ahead.
20:05:59 <stef74> one question about update testing.
20:06:19 <stef74> for the problem of traduction, what the good way?
20:06:23 <lewyssmith> Do you raise a bug for wrong string translations; or what?
20:07:06 <lewyssmith> (Steph's question).
20:07:13 <DavidWHodgins> stef74: traduction? Not a word I'm familar with.
20:07:21 <lewyssmith> = translation
20:07:25 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Yes
20:07:35 <DavidWHodgins> Open a bug report.
20:07:44 <stef74> DavidWHodgins: sorry.
20:07:51 <Kernewes> I did that recently
20:08:08 <Kernewes> just change the priority to minor
20:08:20 <DavidWHodgins> stef74: No need to appoligize. Typos are common in irc.
20:09:53 <lewyssmith> Steph has a video as bug evidence. Any suggestions as to where he can host it for reference?
20:10:34 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Bill?
20:10:37 <DavidWHodgins> If it's small enough, it can be attached to the bug report.
20:10:54 <lewyssmith> Up to 1Mb?
20:11:01 <DavidWHodgins> I think so.
20:11:04 <RemyServices> nothing from me
20:11:05 <wilcal> Best place is YouTube
20:11:13 <stef74> DavidWHodgins: no! 60Mb!
20:11:18 <wilcal> I use that for scratch videos no problem
20:11:27 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. That won't get deleted, like pastebin.
20:11:48 <lewyssmith> stef74: YouTube.
20:11:49 <wilcal> Don't use copyrighted music in the background
20:11:53 <stef74> ok.
20:12:17 <wilcal> If you have a gmail account you have a YouTube account
20:12:17 <DavidWHodgins> Any other questions before I close the meeting?
20:12:36 <lewyssmith> Not here.
20:12:40 <wilcal> not from me
20:12:43 <Kernewes> no
20:12:44 <DavidWHodgins> 5
20:12:47 <DavidWHodgins> 4
20:12:50 <DavidWHodgins> 3
20:12:52 <wilcal> thanks david for being host
20:12:54 <DavidWHodgins> 2
20:12:55 <lewyssmith> Thanks for chairing, Dave.
20:12:58 <DavidWHodgins> 1
20:13:01 <Kernewes> 0.5
20:13:14 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks everyone for attending.
20:13:19 <DavidWHodgins> #endmeeting