19:08:58 <MrsB> #startmeeting
19:08:58 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Sep 18 19:08:58 2014 UTC.  The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:08:58 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:09:02 <tmb> lewyssmith: so you selected it at the same time as the kernels then ?
19:09:13 <lewyssmith> MrsB: I doubt it: I use a little script.
19:09:13 <MrsB> #chair wilcal DavidWHodgins
19:09:13 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB wilcal
19:09:20 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? - If you are, then come and meet the team
19:09:34 <MrsB> Hi everybody, welcome to another one :)
19:09:46 <MrsB> Is anybody new here today?
19:10:00 <olivier_cc> Hi, yes I am
19:10:10 <MrsB> Hi Olivier
19:10:24 <DavidWHodgins> Hi olivier_cc
19:10:44 <MrsB> I think we've met on the list already but why not introduce yourself quickly and everybody else will do the same
19:10:57 <lewyssmith> [There is a thunderstorm, so if I disappear, that will be why].
19:11:07 <DavidWHodgins> I'm Dave Hodgins, from London, Ontario, Canada. One of the deputy leaders of the qa team, since the team was formed.
19:11:26 <olivier_cc> I'm French, linux user for 10 years but more used to ubuntu than mageia
19:11:33 <MrsB> I'm Claire, current team leader, based in the UK.
19:11:51 <wilcal> "wilcal" for (Wil)liam in (Cal)ifornia, live near San Diego ( Surf City USA )
19:12:03 <RemyServices> David Remy, Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA. Windows admin by day, Mageia user by night.
19:12:22 <lewyssmith> Lewis, expatriot Celt living in Limousin.
19:12:52 <olivier_cc> near my parents then Lewis
19:13:09 <lewyssmith> Tell mr privately!
19:13:14 <MrsB> anybody else here or are we all today?
19:13:33 <olivier_cc> ls
19:13:36 <olivier_cc> sorry
19:13:58 <lewyssmith> No need.
19:14:03 <MrsB> Welcome to the team olivier_cc, how have you been getting on?
19:14:29 <olivier_cc> Well as I told, I've set up a clean install of Mageia 4
19:14:38 <MrsB> that's good
19:14:39 <olivier_cc> plus av mageia 3 VM
19:14:56 <MrsB> great. the more versions you can install somewhere the better really
19:15:11 <olivier_cc> well, I'll be modest for a start
19:15:20 <MrsB> yes that's fine
19:15:26 <lewyssmith> Very sensible.
19:15:35 <olivier_cc> I've read QA wiki thrice
19:15:35 <MrsB> sensible... here.. ?
19:15:52 <lewyssmith> Some of us are... sometimes...
19:15:59 <MrsB> :D
19:16:07 <olivier_cc> and lewis gave me some first tips
19:16:35 <olivier_cc> and I bought some aspirins
19:16:35 <MrsB> great, well the best way to learn is to do, so don't hold back, always have a go at things
19:16:41 <MrsB> lol they're useful!
19:16:46 <lewyssmith> Dolipran ?
19:16:54 <olivier_cc> yes also
19:16:56 <tarazed> Len Lawrence, UK citizen today but who knows about tomorrow.
19:17:06 <lewyssmith> !
19:17:19 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:17:22 <MrsB> Hi Len, are you a Yes man or a No man?
19:17:23 <wilcal> Must be in Scotland
19:17:46 <Akien> Hi Oliver and Len :-)
19:17:51 <tarazed> No for sure.
19:17:56 <lewyssmith> Well, I am 1/2 Scottish & YES.
19:18:21 <tarazed> I did waver early on.
19:18:29 <olivier_cc> Hi Akien
19:18:36 <MrsB> I'd vote yes if I lived in Scotland but I'd vote no living in england :D
19:18:36 * tmb lives in Linux land ...
19:18:38 <DavidWHodgins> Both of my grandmothers were born in Scotland. One in Glasgow, and one in Edinburough
19:18:50 <olivier_cc> I guess I'd waver too
19:18:57 <Akien> I'm Rémi Verschelde from Lyon, France. Average Linux users since the last edition of Mandrake :-)
19:18:59 <Akien> *user
19:19:05 <MrsB> I'm waiting for the black country vote Len
19:19:24 <MrsB> glad you could make it anyway :)
19:19:30 <lewyssmith> Everybody would be Yes for that.
19:19:44 <lewyssmith> [More thunder].
19:19:44 <MrsB> Let's see how we're doing with mentoring so far then shall we.
19:20:09 <MrsB> #topic Mentoring
19:20:22 <MrsB> had to look what i'd put in the email
19:20:25 <DavidWHodgins> RemyServices: I'm supposed to be mentoring you. How are you making out?
19:21:18 <RemyServices> I've been too busy to do much over the last month
19:21:24 <Akien> andreani's mentoring is going on at a moderate pace off-list, he's doing good
19:21:54 <RemyServices> DavidWHodgins: I'd like to get you an email to verify I am doing a few steps properly. Overall I think I'm ok, I just need time to get back to testing...
19:22:18 <Akien> I send him lists of easy-to-tackle bugs every other day, and he usually gives it a try (on mga4 32bit only for now, I'll talk to him about VMs when he's confident with the testing procedure)
19:22:28 <MrsB> It's going a bit slowly with Len as his wife is unwell. Hope she's doing better now.
19:22:29 <DavidWHodgins> RemyServices: My email is davidwhodgins@gmail.com
19:23:08 <RemyServices> DavidWHodgins: I'll get an email off in the next few days, thanks
19:23:18 <david_david> hi QA :)
19:23:21 <DavidWHodgins> You're welcome
19:23:31 <MrsB> #info Please have a go at updates from the list , it's really the best way to learn the process
19:23:32 <MrsB> http://mageia.madb.org/tools/updates
19:23:33 <Akien> Morning david_david
19:23:35 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Current Update candidates ]
19:23:37 <MrsB> hi david_david
19:23:45 <olivier_cc> hello david
19:24:27 <MrsB> david_david: do you need a mentor :)
19:25:18 <david_david> MrsB: ohhh yessss :D
19:25:51 <MrsB> #info You don't have to wait to be given things to test, most updates have a procedure shown, so please do get stuck in :)
19:26:19 <olivier_cc> I was wandering if the wireshark package could be an easy start
19:26:57 <olivier_cc> as it as a detailed procedure
19:27:11 <lewyssmith> Few things are easy, but it looks OK.
19:27:14 <MrsB> It's not bad, curl is very easy and has a thorough procedure listed, manaplus is a game, isodumper is a utility to dump isos onto usb sticks
19:27:38 <wilcal> I've been deep into tmb's kernels the last few days
19:28:07 <olivier_cc> hum, I won't begin with that one ...
19:28:27 <lewyssmith> Change topic?
19:28:32 <DavidWHodgins> olivier_cc: kernel testing is not difficult, just tedious
19:28:37 <MrsB> Is everybody happy with the way things are going?
19:28:42 <david_david> isodumper looks easy to test :)
19:28:51 <olivier_cc> curl also
19:28:56 <MrsB> it is david_david, you should try it!
19:29:18 <olivier_cc> I'm very happy to be with you and to be mentored by lewis
19:29:24 <MrsB> sorry we're slow with it, we're kind of using it as an easy one for new starters
19:29:34 <tarazed> Yes.  I tried isodumper - it's a breeze.
19:29:40 <david_david> MrsB: I'm the maintener :p
19:29:44 <MrsB> i know :P
19:29:54 <wilcal> Wireshark's pretty easy to test
19:29:58 <wilcal> it's all here:
19:29:59 <tarazed> Thinking of trying wireshark just now.  Looks complicates.
19:30:00 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13253
19:30:01 <[mbot> Bug 13253: normal, Normal, qa-bugs, RESOLVED FIXED, wireshark new release 1.10.7 fixes security issue, wireshark-1.10.6-1.mga4.src.rpm
19:30:23 <MrsB> tarazed: have a go at curl. There is a link to a procedure to follow given on the bug
19:30:30 <tarazed> complicated
19:30:34 <MrsB> curl isn't
19:30:49 <tarazed> Rightho.
19:30:56 <Akien> Just notice that "curl www.mageia.org" won't produce any output
19:31:00 <Akien> (because of redirections)
19:31:11 <Akien> Use "curl -L www.mageia.org" instead
19:31:12 <MrsB> tarazed: follow this look https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4307#c11
19:31:13 <tarazed> Noted
19:31:13 <[mbot> Bug 4307: normal, Normal, qa-bugs, RESOLVED FIXED, curl new security issues CVE-2012-0036 and CVE-2011-3389, curl-7.21.5-1.1.mga1.src.rpm
19:32:01 <MrsB> everybody OK to continue?
19:32:19 <DavidWHodgins> wireshark can be complicated, in terms of finding the proof of concept files, for testing whether or not the bugs are actually fixed. At this point, I think we need to skip the POC testing, and just test that it works with no obvious regressions.
19:32:34 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Beta 1
19:32:40 <MrsB> thanks Dave
19:33:06 <MrsB> As you know, beta 1 is scheduled for release at the end of the month
19:33:30 <lewyssmith> TonyB is back from the desert, & was asking abou it.
19:33:36 <wilcal> so we should see some ISO's next week
19:33:41 <Akien> Looking at the buildsystem, I think we might need to postpone it.
19:33:41 <DavidWHodgins> So we should be getting iso images for testing around the 23rd.
19:33:59 <MrsB> there is a full rebuild going on at the moment and alot of changes to packaging and rpm stuff so we'll see how we do with the schedule
19:33:59 <DavidWHodgins> Akien: What's wrong with the build system?
19:34:10 <lewyssmith> One week is too short.
19:34:50 <Akien> DavidWHodgins: We upgraded to RPM 4.12.0, but it brings lots of changes in the way "provides" and "requires" are handled in our packages
19:34:59 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Ok.
19:34:59 <MrsB> We should expect to get ISOs to test some time next week, assuming the wronkles are fixed with the technical stuff that's going on at the moment
19:35:12 <MrsB> wrinkles even
19:35:27 <Akien> So many packages can't be installed because they don't find their library anymore, and so on. tv and pterjan are working on it, it should be better in a few days I guess.
19:35:56 <MrsB> There's been alot going on behind the scenes
19:35:56 <Akien> For now cauldron can't be updated for example, because of broken drakxtools :-)
19:36:06 <tmb> yeah, we decided to do all "rpm breakages" at once so we catch them with the rebuild ... guess the plan worked :)
19:36:12 <wilcal> So installing M5 from the present boot.iso ain't gonna go so well :-0
19:36:18 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:36:57 <lewyssmith> Is it valid to continue with a fully up-tp-date M5 installation, rather than re-installing?
19:37:21 <MrsB> full rebuild means that every package is currently being rebuilt with the new toolchain
19:37:56 <MrsB> not for ISO testing lewis no
19:37:59 <lewyssmith> So better to re-install after all.
19:38:10 <MrsB> we need to ensure that what is on the ISO is installable and working
19:38:29 <wilcal> So it's http://www.killdisk.com/ time  :-))
19:38:30 <[mbot> [ How to erase hard drive by Active@ KillDisk? Low Level Disk Format ]
19:38:40 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: We need to find out if any critical packages are missing from the iso.
19:39:08 <lewyssmith> Understood. But installation is a pain on my ATI video box.
19:39:34 <wilcal> AMD/ATI lewys?
19:39:48 <lewyssmith> Yes. ->Text mode.
19:39:50 <MrsB> It's the first Beta. There will only be one more beta before the RC so we should begin to expect things to stabilise now. There may be some new breakage from the rebuild though so we'll see how it goes.
19:39:57 <wilcal> That's actually a good thing
19:40:19 <tmb> wilcal: or simply fdisk /dev/sda, then press "o" and "w" and you have wiped the partitions on a system still running :)
19:40:21 <MrsB> If you're having to use text mode then that's a bug
19:40:22 <wilcal> But the big wrinkles have to be ironed out before releasing M5B1
19:40:40 <MrsB> that's what we're aiming for wilcal yeah
19:40:48 <lewyssmith> We look like being back to M3 where the Alpha release worked, the Beta not.
19:41:23 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Because of the mass rebuild, that is not unusual.
19:41:36 <MrsB> we've previously had alot of dev work carried out late in the dev cycle but it shouldn't be like that this time. Not as much dev work is going on this time either actually,.
19:41:59 <tmb> I actually wonder if we should stop doing alphas at all as the rebuild gets some part back to alpha state...
19:42:21 <MrsB> I guess it's useful to have something to install from though tmb
19:42:26 <MrsB> one alpha maybe
19:42:46 <DavidWHodgins> The alpha releases are good for testing new packages/features, but not for things that have yet to be rebuilt.
19:42:54 <MrsB> what we really need is for things to start again sooner after the final release
19:42:55 <lewyssmith> I think we should do forseen development/changes *before* Alpha, not after.
19:42:57 <wilcal> Hav'ta start somewhere
19:43:05 <lewyssmith> As above.
19:43:24 <Akien> lewyssmith: For sure, but it's hard to put the devs at work :-)
19:43:30 <MrsB> tend to find everybody takes a month or two off
19:43:43 <wilcal> And most important is that a RC is a RC and not to be changed after releasing that
19:43:48 <MrsB> apart from the QA team. We're inundated with updates
19:44:07 <lewyssmith> And ISOP testing...
19:44:11 <lewyssmith> ISO
19:44:22 <Akien> tmb: I think the alphas and the mass rebuild show different types of issues. The first one has to do with buggy software, when the second one shows compilation and packaging issues.
19:44:25 <Akien> More or less :-)
19:44:49 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_ISO_testers Please add yourself here if you haven't already
19:45:04 <Akien> But yes maybe we could do only one alpha
19:45:16 <MrsB> olivier_cc: tarazed are you following Ok?
19:45:27 <DavidWHodgins> That will be a decision for the council.
19:46:03 <MrsB> i think maybe one alpha would discourage people from starting again after final release
19:47:37 <MrsB> #info there is alot going on with the rebuild at the moment but we should expect to get some ISOs next week
19:47:58 <MrsB> Seems we killed them
19:48:23 <DavidWHodgins> A lot of it depends on how far the developers have gotten before the alpha release is built.
19:48:24 <MrsB> Any questions about the ISOs or ISO testing?
19:48:35 <ennael> hi there
19:48:38 <ennael> right in time :)
19:48:40 <MrsB> morning ennael
19:48:51 <olivier_cc> hello ennael
19:49:11 <MrsB> ennael and tmb are the people who will build the ISOs for us
19:49:12 <DavidWHodgins> Hi ennael
19:50:44 <MrsB> Anybody anything to add before we move on?
19:50:52 <wilcal> Not from here
19:50:53 <olivier_cc> Is it possible to try an iso testing just to see what it looks like, or do I have to be confirmed ?
19:51:21 <MrsB> If you add yourself to the list on that page olivier_cc you can take part in it
19:51:34 <olivier_cc> ok thanks
19:51:36 <MrsB> lewis will be able to guide you
19:51:42 <olivier_cc> poor lewis
19:51:45 <MrsB> lol
19:52:05 <MrsB> there is a page with some details, one minute..
19:52:28 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Pre-release_ISO_testing
19:52:32 <MrsB> still a draft :\
19:52:54 <olivier_cc> a pretty extensive draft then
19:53:25 <MrsB> It helps if you can download the current ISOs from a mirror before we get started as it normally makes the initial rsync alot faster
19:53:56 <olivier_cc> ok
19:54:09 <MrsB> we should add some info about mageiaSync onto that page too now
19:54:47 <Akien> papoteur: ^^
19:55:10 <MrsB> Anybody anything to add or shall we move on?
19:55:35 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Testing updates
19:55:42 <MrsB> tah
19:56:06 <MrsB> Are there any scray looking updates this week?
19:56:09 <MrsB> scary*
19:56:17 <MrsB> pykolab dave?
19:56:31 <MrsB> http://mageia.madb.org/tools/updates
19:56:33 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Current Update candidates ]
19:56:45 <wilcal> I've still got to put a little more time into the kernels to be comfortable otherwise their fine for me
19:56:51 <MrsB> bacula is still on my todo list
19:57:19 <MrsB> kernel issues?
19:57:38 <wilcal> Do we have a page somewhere that explains the differences and advantages of the different kernels?
19:57:52 <MrsB> there is somebody working on that
19:57:56 <DavidWHodgins> None found here, though I've only tested the desktop kernel on Mageia 4 so far.
19:57:58 <lewyssmith> MrsB: I am poised to re-try bacula; have tried to wipe all traces of previous efforts.
19:57:59 <wilcal> Looks like we got an AMD/ATI problem
19:58:13 <wilcal> I can't help with that
19:58:44 <wilcal> New people any testing of kernels is golden
19:58:44 <MrsB> I have to set up another box to try ati but can do if needed
19:59:05 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: I have radeon cards in both of my computers, and they are working ok.
19:59:11 <wilcal> so many different combinations
19:59:26 <lewyssmith> How can one capture boot console O/P?
19:59:32 <Akien> I have to fix my grub to be able to boot into my mga4 installs again :-)
19:59:54 <MrsB> you can try the journal or if all else fails use a camera
20:00:03 <tmb> lewyssmith: can you confirm wich radeon-firmware is installed and do an lsinitrd on the 3.14.18-3 initrd and add the info to the BR
20:00:17 <david_david> I've working on kernel-desktop for mga4_64 too
20:00:29 <MrsB> which gpu david_david?
20:00:48 <lewyssmith> tmb: Please advise on the 'bug'.
20:00:53 <david_david> nvidia, intel = Optimus = Bumblebee :p
20:01:13 <MrsB> almost all of them then
20:01:50 <MrsB> lewis rpm -q radeon-firmware
20:02:23 <MrsB> lsinitrd /path/to/initrd
20:02:42 <david_david> nothing found, no regression here at the moment
20:02:49 <lewyssmith> Thanks. I *may* have overlooked that. Cannot look & talk at the same time !
20:03:25 <lewyssmith> tmb: radeon-firmware-20140828-1.mga4.nonfree
20:05:22 <lewyssmith> Sorry, too much lightening. I must shut down. Goodbye everyone.
20:05:38 <MrsB> that is the updated one then
20:05:42 <MrsB> brb phone
20:09:44 <MrsB> sorry about that
20:09:52 <MrsB> still awake?
20:10:00 <wilcal> We're still here
20:10:08 <MrsB> should have carried on
20:10:26 <MrsB> Is there anything else to add about the updates?
20:10:34 <MrsB> any questions?
20:11:05 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup
20:11:12 <MrsB> thanks
20:11:16 <MrsB> Luigi12_work: ping!
20:11:18 <wilcal> Hello Luigi :-))
20:11:47 <Luigi12_work> boo
20:11:48 <MrsB> For anybody new, Luigi12 is David Walser who you'll know from bugzilla. He builds most of our security updates
20:12:16 <MrsB> and helps out QA alot
20:12:21 <olivier_cc> Hi Luigi
20:12:26 <wilcal> Kinda light on security updates on the listing
20:12:36 <MrsB> ohh now you've said it wilcal
20:12:42 <wilcal> usually they outnumber the bugfixes
20:12:48 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: knock on wood. :-)
20:12:49 <MrsB> hope you touched wood
20:12:52 <MrsB> yeah
20:13:06 <Luigi12_work> well I'm waiting on tmb for a dbus update
20:13:17 <MrsB> gives us a good chance to clear the bugfix updates though
20:13:30 <Luigi12_work> an iceape update was recently requested or pushed in Cauldron, so I imagine cjw/spturtle will have it coming in mga3/mga4 before too long hopefully
20:13:53 <MrsB> #info iceape soon and dbus
20:13:56 <Luigi12_work> I filed bugs for axis (some Java thing), nginx, and apt this past week, not sure how quickly any of those will be addressed
20:14:07 <tmb> ouch... me have forgotten about dbus :/
20:14:26 * tmb kicks tmb
20:14:31 <DavidWHodgins> lol
20:14:36 <Luigi12_work> tmb: it's OK, you have a million things going on right now
20:14:38 * Luigi12_work unkicks tmb
20:14:57 <MrsB> #info bugs raised for axis (java thing), nginx and apt updates, so coming soonish
20:15:23 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Anything else?
20:15:26 <MrsB> apt as in apt-get apt?
20:15:35 <Luigi12_work> yeah, we have that packaged
20:15:42 <Luigi12_work> for some strange reason
20:15:46 <MrsB> very strange
20:15:55 <Luigi12_work> a really really old version too
20:16:23 * Luigi12_work took off work this Monday to test kernel and virtualbox updates
20:16:25 <MrsB> it'll be inetersting to try it
20:16:28 * Luigi12_work tested them at work too
20:16:59 <MrsB> well done, they break anything?
20:17:10 <Luigi12_work> nope, everything went great
20:17:15 <MrsB> \o/
20:17:21 <DavidWHodgins> Good
20:17:24 * MrsB hasn't looked yet
20:17:37 <wilcal> Kernels look pretty good
20:17:44 <Luigi12_work> but yeah I don't have anything else in the pipeline.  Packagers are too occupied (not) helping with the mass rebuild and stuff to package any security updates
20:17:46 <MrsB> we'll need to check all the dkms packages build ok
20:17:58 <RemyServices> sorry, have to head out, ill review meeting later
20:18:05 <MrsB> nite RemyServices
20:18:25 <MrsB> #info mainly waiting on packagers for security updates
20:18:44 * Luigi12_work is trying to debug a kernel display issue on a server at work right now
20:18:54 <MrsB> usually happens while we're iso testing so we have a nice list waiting for us :D
20:19:08 <Luigi12_work> it was broken in kernel 3.12 I figured out, now trying to zero in on it
20:19:31 <MrsB> new bug Luigi12_work?
20:19:48 <Luigi12_work> new bug as of the release of mga4
20:19:56 <tmb> Luigi12_work; well a git bisect would help, but I guess you cant occupy tre server that much :)
20:20:12 <Luigi12_work> tmb: luckily I have an almost identical server not being used for anything!
20:20:19 <Luigi12_work> so that's what I've been doing my testing on today
20:20:19 <MrsB> win!
20:20:38 <Luigi12_work> and yes it is lucky, because the main server this issue affects is the most critical one on our network pretty much
20:20:44 <Luigi12_work> all internet traffic goes through that proxy server
20:20:57 <Luigi12_work> only the Active Directory server is as important
20:21:12 <Luigi12_work> and I asked our IT guy to make a BDC for that so it won't be as important :o)
20:21:24 <tmb> Luigi12_work: well then a git bisect should be somewhat fast with that much cpu power... :)
20:21:34 <Luigi12_work> tmb: yeah I just finished git clone
20:21:59 <Luigi12_work> so hopefully this bisect will work out better than the one for the Foxconn systems which are now just resting peacefully in their boxes at home
20:22:33 <MrsB> Any questions for Luigi12_work?
20:22:47 <wilcal> Not from here
20:23:16 <MrsB> thanks then David
20:23:22 <MrsB> that only leaves..
20:23:34 <MrsB> #topic Anything else?
20:23:44 <MrsB> Is there anything else?
20:23:47 * Luigi12_work is booting 3.12-rc5 from r496716 now to narrow it down before starting the bisect
20:24:08 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here.
20:24:33 <wilcal> Nothing here
20:24:35 <MrsB> olivier_cc: tarazed anything you want to discuss?
20:24:49 <wilcal> Turned the test computer off for today :-)
20:25:01 <MrsB> it's far to early for that wilcal!
20:25:10 <olivier_cc> no thats ok, I'm on the curl package while reading you
20:25:13 <wilcal> It was complaining about the hard kernels
20:25:34 <MrsB> Thanks everybody for coming in that case
20:25:38 <MrsB> T - 5
20:25:40 <MrsB> 4
20:25:42 <MrsB> 3
20:25:43 <MrsB> 2
20:25:45 <MrsB> 1
20:25:47 <MrsB> #endmeeting