19:04:57 <DavidWHodgins> #startmeeting
19:04:57 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Sep 11 19:04:57 2014 UTC.  The chair is DavidWHodgins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:04:57 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:05:00 <MrsB> thanks
19:05:06 <DavidWHodgins> #chair MrsB wilcal
19:05:06 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB wilcal
19:05:07 <wilcal> Hello MrsB
19:05:38 <MrsB> hi, sorry. I'll be here watching
19:05:40 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? If you are then come and meet everybody
19:06:03 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone here who hasn't been to a qa team irc meeting before?
19:07:00 <DavidWHodgins> I don't see any new names, so will go on to the next topic.
19:07:04 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Mentoring progress - How is it going?
19:07:47 <wilcal> I see language may be an important factor
19:08:10 <lewyssmith> It certainy helps non-English speakers.
19:08:33 <MrsB> len (tarazed) is shuttling back and forth to the hospital where his wife is, so we haven't got far yet. He's set up his medias and we have email back and forth in the evening
19:08:45 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, though I have yet to see a qa team member that doesn't have English as a second or third language.
19:08:47 <MrsB> he's looking at isodumper now
19:09:36 <MrsB> has everybody been in touch with the person they are mentoring?
19:09:39 <lewyssmith> My subject in NZ had already done a load of things, and only needs odd questions answered.
19:10:06 <lewyssmith> One of whic for "anything else".
19:11:14 <DavidWHodgins> He's not here today, but does anyone here know if the irc nick RemyServices is the same Remi that's on the dev team? I'm supposed to be mentoring him via email, but haven't been in contact with him.
19:11:20 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins: Inevitable here.
19:11:30 <MrsB> No Rémi is Akien
19:11:44 <MrsB> remyservices is david remy
19:11:54 <MrsB> do you have his email?
19:12:10 <wilcal> welcome rindolf
19:12:12 <DavidWHodgins> No. Checking my archive of qa-discuss right now.
19:12:17 <lewyssmith> I think the former is French, the latter in america.
19:12:26 <MrsB> should be on isotesters page Dave
19:12:33 <DavidWHodgins> Found it.
19:12:51 <MrsB> it's up to us to drive things so keep everybody busy :)
19:12:52 <rindolf> wilcal: hi.
19:12:59 <rindolf> MrsB: hi, sup?
19:13:06 <MrsB> hi rindolf
19:13:08 <DavidWHodgins> I'll email him after the meeting, to try and get things going.
19:13:45 <MrsB> brb
19:14:04 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone else looking for a mentor?
19:14:07 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Don't you have somebody?
19:14:41 <wilcal> Nodody yet
19:14:55 <wilcal> I donno if I would be a good mentor but willing to try
19:15:03 <wilcal> Old Engineers can be grumpy
19:15:12 <wilcal> teachers
19:15:17 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: You have some experience, so that's all that's needed.
19:15:37 <MrsB> wilcal you have somebody don't you? we need to keep a list somewhere
19:16:29 <DavidWHodgins> We should set up a wiki page, like the developers have
19:16:34 <wilcal> I haven't seen someone assigned to me
19:16:44 <MrsB> wilcal: Pete, I cc'd you on the email
19:17:01 <wilcal> send it again
19:17:13 <MrsB> it's on qa-discuss on 9/9
19:17:34 <MrsB> maybe gmail hid it if you got it twice
19:17:50 <MrsB> i'll forward it now
19:17:53 <wilcal> thks
19:18:50 <MrsB> i'll make a list on the wiki tmrw so we can keep track
19:19:04 <MrsB> do you have the email?
19:19:39 <lewyssmith> In any event, the 'mentor' idea is sensible and worth perpetuating.
19:19:51 <wilcal> Got it now
19:20:09 <DavidWHodgins> Any questions about the mentoring process?
19:20:20 <MrsB> we'll do a weekly progress report too, it'll help keep things moving
19:20:48 <MrsB> shame none of them turned up to the meeting though
19:21:05 <lewyssmith> Mine is at 05.00.
19:21:13 <MrsB> true :)
19:21:54 <MrsB> back to you Dave, thanks
19:22:21 <DavidWHodgins> Basically, it's about how to set up test environments, snapshotting under vb and real hardware installs, testing proof of concepts, installing the updates, and then confirming the bugs are fixed with no regressions. Similar for iso testing.
19:22:40 <DavidWHodgins> May as well move on.
19:22:45 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Testing updates
19:22:47 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: can you handle testing the gnupg update just like you tested the libgcrypt update recently (with kgpg)?
19:23:05 <wilcal> I'll give it a go Luigi
19:23:16 <wilcal> I think I'm done with mariadb today
19:23:16 <Luigi12_work> great
19:23:35 <Luigi12_work> then we'll just need mga3 moodle and we're done with the current set
19:23:49 <Luigi12_work> for security updates of course
19:24:07 <wilcal> I should have lots o time this weekend to test stuff ( anticipating tmb's kernels )
19:24:10 <DavidWHodgins> Argh. Just tried to reload mageia.madb.org/tools/updates but it won't load right now.
19:24:13 <Luigi12_work> oh wait there's curl also'
19:24:16 <lewyssmith> Firefox?
19:24:17 <Luigi12_work> why don't I see it on the madb page
19:24:27 <Luigi12_work> lewyssmith: Firefox isn't getting OKs right now, just testing it
19:25:02 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Likely the bug report either hasn't been entered yet, or it has not been assigned to qa yet.
19:25:05 <Luigi12_work> oops I forgot to assign the curl bug to QA
19:25:07 <Luigi12_work> just did
19:25:45 <lewyssmith> Rotter.
19:25:56 <Luigi12_work> note that curl has a humongous test suite that's run at build time
19:26:31 <DavidWHodgins> So for curl, pretty much just testing that it install cleanly, and can run.
19:26:50 <Luigi12_work> yeah, that's sufficient
19:26:53 <MrsB> theres a good procedure somewhere for curl
19:26:59 <Luigi12_work> already linked on the bug
19:27:48 <DavidWHodgins> mageia.org is responding ok here, but madb.org is not responding.
19:28:18 <lewyssmith> It is with me.
19:28:25 <Luigi12_work> could be an issue with DNS again
19:28:47 <Luigi12_work> should be 195.154.90.25
19:29:29 <DavidWHodgins> I'm getting 195.154.228.249
19:30:02 <DavidWHodgins> Oops. Sorry, that's the name server. It is showing 195.154.90.25
19:30:18 * Luigi12_work blames Canada
19:30:27 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:30:39 <lewyssmith> Canada is blameless in all matters.
19:30:59 <Luigi12_work> any questions about testing updates?
19:30:59 <DavidWHodgins> ☺
19:31:27 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup
19:31:34 <Luigi12_work> boo
19:31:41 <wilcal> Hello Luigi
19:31:49 <Luigi12_work> "Luigi's Roundup: where we kill those pesky weeds"
19:32:14 <wilcal> In Amsterdam they smoke them
19:32:21 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:32:29 <DavidWHodgins> Same here.
19:32:32 <Luigi12_work> so the only new thing in the pipeline from the past week is Iceape.  A bug is filed for it.  Not sure when cjw/spturtle will package the update.
19:32:46 <wilcal> Still no kernels from tmb
19:32:51 <Luigi12_work> I still need to check with ffmpeg upstream about an update for 2.0.x
19:32:58 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Thank goodness.
19:33:00 <Luigi12_work> yeah, still waiting on kernels and the KDE update
19:33:16 <wilcal> Are we all good on mariadb now?
19:33:29 <wilcal> I think we've boiled it all down to a simple process
19:33:45 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: it'd be good if you'd run the test thing that you interrupted to completion, just once
19:33:51 <Luigi12_work> but otherwise yeah it's good to go
19:34:03 <Luigi12_work> any questions about security updates?
19:34:05 <wilcal> Yes, but my computer has to sleep too takes hours
19:34:27 <wilcal> My fastest computer was still crunching after an hour
19:36:31 <wilcal> tmb what's the status of the next kernels?
19:36:46 <DavidWHodgins> This is weird. My main (x86_64) computer can't get a response from madb.org, but this old i586 system that I use for irc and as a file server is getting a response. Very strange.
19:37:19 <lewyssmith> wilcal: Try t_m_b
19:37:44 <wilcal> t_m_b what's the status of the next kernels
19:38:25 <t_m_b> hi, by the looks of it the fix for raid1 I've been waiting for is somewhat found so hopefully I can start final builds tomorrow
19:38:41 <wilcal> maybe this weekend?
19:38:55 <t_m_b> yep
19:39:29 <t_m_b> and I also plan on pushing virtualbox 4.3.16 to both cauldron and mga3/4
19:39:49 <DavidWHodgins> #info iceape update coming soon, and kernel updates likely this weekend, as well as virtualbox updates.
19:40:20 <wilcal> testing Vbox takes almost as much time as kernels
19:40:33 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Anything else about expected updates?
19:40:34 <t_m_b> it's the first one that fully supports x11-server 1.16 and kernel 3.17, so it will be better for QA testing mga5 beta1+ ...
19:40:40 <wilcal> I gotta build a real hardware OS system from scratch
19:40:58 <wilcal> sounds like a plan
19:41:01 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:41:43 <marja> hi all
19:41:43 <Luigi12_work> ahh good
19:41:48 <Luigi12_work> no I don't have anything else
19:41:54 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: t_m_b: Thanks.
19:42:01 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else?
19:42:09 <wilcal> u happy with what went on with mariadb
19:42:11 <t_m_b> and for fglrx users, AMD finally pushed a driver that supports x11-server 1.16
19:42:16 <wilcal> I think we can push it
19:42:33 <lewyssmith> Give me a moment, please...
19:42:52 <DavidWHodgins> I haven't looked at mariadb. If you're ok with it, go ahead.
19:43:04 <MrsB> it's ready to push
19:43:06 <wilcal> How bout you MrsB mariadb ol
19:43:08 <wilcal> ok
19:43:12 <wilcal> will do
19:43:20 <wilcal> good work by all there
19:43:34 <wilcal> boiled it down to some simple procedures
19:43:59 <MrsB> normally just gets checked with variety of webapps but we've done the mariadb-bench tests in the past too
19:44:24 <wilcal> I like the mariadb-bench thingy
19:45:28 <marja> t_m_b: some time ago you said that efi install should work with boot(-nonfree).iso... I forgot to tell you that it didn't with the two boot-nonfree.isos I tried for that bug report about screenshotting
19:46:47 <MrsB> thanks Dave for being in charge this week
19:47:45 <t_m_b> marja, ok, well I have new code in the pipeline that will change some of that ... hopefully I can release a first revision this weekend
19:47:56 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: You're welcome. Thanks to you for keeping the team going in my absence of activity.
19:48:10 <marja> t_m_b: thx.... I intend to test
19:48:11 <wilcal> We're a team
19:48:21 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Thanks to you too.
19:49:10 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: wilcal: What's happening with getting the qa team added to the ldap group?
19:49:37 <t_m_b> its on my TODO now :)
19:49:49 <MrsB> it's waiting for tmb input, but he's got alot to do and not supposed to be doing any of it. It's in the pipeline though.
19:50:20 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. Thanks. Nothing else here.
19:51:01 <DavidWHodgins> Everyone ok with ending the meeting now?
19:51:04 <lewyssmith> A perennial question: if an update is bad, how to revert? Dave mentioned VM snapshots, which I can see. And from time to time, someone posts a urpm* command to install a pkg to a specific (previous) version. Can someone here give the command?
19:51:08 <wilcal> I'm done
19:51:57 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: urpmi --downgrade packagename
19:52:13 <lewyssmith> That's all?
19:52:22 <MrsB> you can either use urpmi --downgrade <package> or just urpme package and then install again with Testing media disabled. You can use rpm -e --nodeps <package> if it has a string of dependencies but remember to reinstall so it doesn't break stuff
19:52:36 <DavidWHodgins> The package name has to be version specific.
19:52:46 <marja> lewyssmith: you can add the version if needed (when there are several previous versions)
19:53:14 <lewyssmith> Thanks for this info. The person I am mentoring asked about 'what if an update test breaks my stystem?'.
19:53:28 <DavidWHodgins> For vb testing, I use snapshots. For real hardware testing, I use rsync to backup/restore the equivalent of snapshots.
19:53:38 <MrsB> in all the testing I've done only lxc has ever broken anything
19:53:39 <marja> lewyssmith: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6655#c16
19:53:41 <[mbot> Bug 6655: enhancement, Low, bugsquad, RESOLVED FIXED, URPMI has no option  --downgrade, urpmi
19:53:44 <MrsB> and that was myown fault
19:53:54 <marja> lewyssmith: tv explains it well in comment 16
19:54:19 <MrsB> keep on top of --auto-orphans and it keeps the system pretty clean
19:54:36 <lewyssmith> Thanks for this info. The person I am mentoring asked about 'what if an update test breaks my stystem?'.
19:54:49 <lewyssmith> MrsB: By which you mean?
19:55:18 <MrsB> just really tidy up after testing something, urpme --auto-orphans
19:55:36 <lewyssmith> Too late for me: the whole system wouyld go!
19:55:36 <MrsB> if it's done regularly it's just the leftover dependencies from package sunder test
19:55:43 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: If you have enough disk space, i don't recommend using your normal "production" install for testing.
19:56:00 <lewyssmith> I keep my fingers crossed.
19:56:18 <MrsB> you don't need to use --auto-orphans, just tidy up after testing
19:56:24 * Luigi12_work remembers the T-shirt that says "I don't always test my code, but when I do, I do it in production!"
19:56:39 <wilcal> Complete crashes have become rare on released versions
19:56:58 <DavidWHodgins> I have my regularly used install, 6 testing installs (with backups of each), and 6 vb installs.
19:57:02 <wilcal> but back-in-the-day ( Mandrake/Mandriva ) we had some
19:57:37 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: That's because Mandrake/Mandriva didn't have a good qa team. :-)
19:57:51 <lewyssmith> MrsB: You once gave out how auto-orphans could become disorganised. Do you recall?
19:57:52 <marja> lewyssmith: "--auto-orphans" has been known to remove complete desktop environments, so don't blindly use that
19:58:11 <lewyssmith> I dont, blindly.
19:59:02 <MrsB> it's a very simplistic mechanism. Anything which is installed as a dependency of something which is left behind after removing the main package becomes an orphan. It runs into trouble when you remove task-* packages etc though
19:59:09 <MrsB> use with caution
19:59:14 <DavidWHodgins> Correct. Check the list of packages, and run "urpmi packagename" to mark any packages you don't want uninstalled, as being manually installed so they will not be treated as orphans.
19:59:47 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins: Can you elaborate:
19:59:47 <lewyssmith> <DavidWHodgins> For vb testing, I use snapshots. For real hardware testing, I use rsync to backup/restore the equivalent of snapshots
20:00:06 <lewyssmith> Sorry, the last half.
20:00:09 <marja> DavidWHodgins: that's a good suggestion, never thought of that
20:00:25 <wilcal> I use Vbox installs, keep them up to date, then clone them for testing
20:00:46 <lewyssmith> The use of rsync for same...
20:00:51 <MrsB> if you urpmi something which is listed as an orphan it marks it as manually installed, so it won't then try to remove it
20:01:00 <wilcal> I also have a local repo which helps
20:01:20 <DavidWHodgins> For example, if you remove kwrite, since you prefer gedit, unless you also use the --nodeps option, it will remove task-kde, and urpme --auto-orphans would remove all of kde.
20:02:25 <lewyssmith> Back to Dave's use of rsync for doing snapshots/restores...
20:02:45 <lewyssmith> Sounds neat; can you describe?
20:02:56 <DavidWHodgins> I only enable the testing repos after creating the snapshot, or restoring a real hardware install from it's backup.
20:03:33 <MrsB> I've never bothered
20:04:23 <lewyssmith> Enough, thanks to all.
20:05:11 <MrsB> wrap it up then Dave :)
20:05:25 <wilcal> enough for today :-))
20:05:59 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks everyone!
20:06:06 <DavidWHodgins> #endmeeting