19:00:01 <wilcal> #startmeeting
19:00:01 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu May  8 19:00:01 2014 UTC.  The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:01 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:08 <wilcal> See right on time
19:00:25 <lewyssmith> Hello Dave.
19:00:32 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa
19:00:32 <wilcal> #chair DavidWHodgins
19:00:32 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins wilcal
19:00:42 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: hello
19:00:43 <rindolf> DavidWHodgins: hi.
19:00:47 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? If you are then come along and say hello
19:01:15 <lewyssmith> Bonsoir Thierry
19:01:16 <rindolf> Well, swecarp is new but they are not here.
19:01:21 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone here who hasn't been to a qa irc meeting before?
19:01:53 <Kernewes> evidently not
19:02:06 <lewyssmith> Brave!
19:02:09 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Testing updates - We need more people doing this!
19:02:10 <wilcal> Thank you for being here David you must be feeling better
19:02:23 <DavidWHodgins> Still so so.
19:02:36 <lewyssmith> Are you, Dave, feeling better?
19:02:50 <wilcal> We've kinda kept up with the updates but still quite some on the list
19:03:00 <rindolf> wilcal: I may be able to help.
19:03:08 <wilcal> Several have been sticking there for too long
19:03:11 <wilcal> thanks rin
19:03:11 <rindolf> wilcal: I'm looking for something to keep me busy.
19:03:14 <DavidWHodgins> Better, but not yet well enough to be testing updates as I should be.
19:03:29 <rindolf> DavidWHodgins: I hope you feel better soon.
19:03:36 <wilcal> An easy one just went up with Chrome
19:03:49 <Kernewes> I'd hoped to do some last weekend but my internet wasn't back in time
19:04:06 <Kernewes> this weekend I'll probably be busy helping my neighbour who's having an op tomorrow
19:04:07 <wilcal> I've a couple to bring to the table here to see if we can get'em moved along
19:04:19 <DavidWHodgins> I've just started syncing the latest 4.1 iso images.
19:04:27 <lewyssmith> I can try 13338 13325 13185, but only for MGA4 64-bit.
19:04:43 <wilcal> How can we move along (enlightenment):
19:04:44 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13032
19:04:46 <[mbot> Bug 13032: minor, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , [enlightenment] update e from 0.17.5 to 0.17.6, e-0.17.5-1.mga4.src.rpm
19:04:46 <wilcal> It's been on the list 29 days.
19:05:03 <lewyssmith> By someone else trying it!
19:05:03 <wilcal> Can we take (gnome):
19:05:05 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12830
19:05:06 <[mbot> Bug 12830: major, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , Gnome keyring do not start properly under MATE, gnome-keyring-3.10.1-2.mga4.src.rpm
19:05:06 <wilcal> off the list and give it back to dev?
19:05:08 <wilcal> It's been on the list for 61 days and is awaiting packager feedback.
19:05:15 <lewyssmith> It only needs to be installed & used a littlr.
19:05:19 <DavidWHodgins> We have to give priority to security bugs.
19:05:52 <wilcal> Ya Luigi is gonna wanna get that Chrome thing out asap i think
19:06:07 <lewyssmith> We need more bodies. I say this every week.
19:06:31 <wilcal> We've never enough people and time
19:06:51 <wilcal> but I don't find this any different then Mandrake/Mandriva was years ago
19:07:03 <lewyssmith> We have fewer now than ever, it seems to me.
19:07:34 <wilcal> But it's the bestest core of people
19:07:44 <wilcal> I try to poke at something every day
19:08:06 <lewyssmith> Me often, but it is not enough.
19:08:21 <Kernewes> weekday evenings are becoming impossible for me now with the chronic fatigue
19:08:46 <wilcal> We finally got those Kernels outta there
19:09:30 <DavidWHodgins> kernel testing is very tedious, as there are so many of them.
19:09:51 <lewyssmith> I suspect only you try the lot.
19:09:54 <wilcal> Ya lots of baseball on TV last weekend so lots of Kernel testing :-))
19:10:02 <tmb> and more will come...
19:10:05 * tmb hides
19:10:08 <wilcal> I learned a lot this time
19:10:12 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:10:24 <wilcal> Sorry I still had one small wrinkle in your Kernel tmb
19:10:59 <wilcal> I bet that wrinkle to back quite some time
19:11:11 <wilcal> it was there in M3
19:11:31 <wilcal> not quite sure what's going on there it's fine on real hardware
19:11:42 <tmb> wilcal, no problem, it can wait for the second round of updates... the "official" kernel is always more critical than the rest
19:11:53 <wilcal> tmb server kernel don't like my vbox setup
19:12:30 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Is it the X server refusing to start?
19:13:10 <wilcal> Actuall no it crashes immediate after grub selection
19:13:27 <wilcal> desktop is just fine
19:13:43 <wilcal> I was actually running both Vbox clients at the same time
19:14:04 <wilcal> both desktops ran, i586 server crashes
19:14:35 <RemyServices> ill try to test those tonight on hyper-v as well
19:14:45 <RemyServices> see if i too have the server crash
19:14:46 <wilcal> Thks Remy
19:15:08 <tmb> otoh failing in vbox is not critical for atleast -tmb and -rt kernels as they focus on more speed / realtime, something that virtualization is not helping with, especially vbox
19:15:45 <wilcal> We have quite a few waiting for developers. Can we take them off the list or something
19:16:06 <wilcal> Especially the Gnome thingy
19:16:07 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: We need more info than "crashes". After it crashes, boot with a kernel that does work, and use journalctl to get the error messages.
19:16:50 <wilcal> I'll give that a go in the next days David
19:17:13 <wilcal> Can we take (gnome):
19:17:15 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12830
19:17:16 <[mbot> Bug 12830: major, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , Gnome keyring do not start properly under MATE, gnome-keyring-3.10.1-2.mga4.src.rpm
19:17:16 <wilcal> off the list and give it back to dev?
19:17:18 <wilcal> It's been on the list for 61 days and is awaiting packager feedback.
19:18:19 <wilcal> prosody's been there a week wait'n for developer input
19:18:34 <wilcal> Sorry I'm reverting back to being "Mr. Executive"
19:20:47 <wilcal> Anything we can do with
19:20:48 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13032
19:20:50 <[mbot> Bug 13032: minor, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , [enlightenment] update e from 0.17.5 to 0.17.6, e-0.17.5-1.mga4.src.rpm
19:20:51 <wilcal> Lewis
19:20:58 <DavidWHodgins> Looks like the last comment on that bug was a question for me. I'll try and test it later today.
19:21:35 <DavidWHodgins> As it's a bugfix, it has to wait till we have all of the security updates tested.
19:21:37 <wilcal> Thanks David
19:21:44 <lewyssmith> It just needs more testers. Just install & use a bit. Easy.
19:22:08 <wilcal> Ah one of those bugs that has to state somewhere that it need more then one tester
19:22:23 <lewyssmith> The stopper was not being able to login...
19:23:13 <wilcal> I put "Needs more then one tester" in there
19:23:26 <lewyssmith> But maybe that was just my setup.
19:24:29 <wilcal> Can someone help me to easily start the lightdm environment somehow I've not been able to start that
19:25:24 <DavidWHodgins> mcc/boot/Setup display manager
19:25:36 <lewyssmith> If it is installed, you go to MCC and ask it to use lightDM - as Dave just said!
19:25:49 <DavidWHodgins> Provided it's already installed.
19:26:10 <lewyssmith> If it is not, you cannot chose it.
19:26:15 <wilcal> I seem to have tried all that and never seen LightDM listed
19:26:26 <wilcal> Even if it's installed
19:26:28 <diogenese> I've been using it.
19:26:43 <wilcal> Is it called LightDM?
19:26:48 <diogenese> Yes
19:26:55 <wilcal> I'm do'n something wrong
19:26:55 <DavidWHodgins> It shows in the list of available DM's here.
19:27:14 <lewyssmith> Here also.
19:27:30 <wilcal> How about an easy way to test
19:27:32 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13290
19:27:33 <[mbot> Bug 13290: major, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , php (php-fpm) new security issue CVE-2014-0185, php-5.5.11-1.mga4.src.rpm
19:28:21 <wilcal> Something that just confirms it got updated
19:28:33 <DavidWHodgins> With most php updates, if there is no proof of concept included, we usually just test that things like phpmyadmin work.
19:29:08 <lewyssmith> An awful lot of pkgs to check installed then update.
19:29:20 <DavidWHodgins> Yep
19:29:53 <wilcal> Maybe we can just name a few apps to run and if they do then php got updated
19:29:54 <DavidWHodgins> For most of them, as they haven't really changed, just need to ensure they install cleanly.
19:30:12 <wilcal> Put that into this BUG and w've an easy test process, there is none now
19:30:23 <lewyssmith> I might try sorting the list to aid things.
19:30:34 <wilcal> Kinda almost everything uses PHP or almost
19:31:00 <DavidWHodgins> Most web apps do.
19:31:32 <wilcal> Update PHP run browser, Filezilla ect ect if they run it got installed and is running
19:31:45 <wilcal> Would that be right?
19:31:49 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
19:32:01 <wilcal> Sounds like a test process to me
19:32:22 <lewyssmith> Does Filezilla use PHP?
19:32:25 <diogenese> I have 20 instances of mediawiki installed. Those put PHP to the test. I could update and see if they still work.
19:32:30 <wilcal> I've got some things to do this afternoon but will give it a go this evening
19:32:48 <wilcal> Easy testing
19:33:29 <DavidWHodgins> If there is a poc, we test to see if it the bug is present before installing the update, then test again after installing the update. If there is no poc, we just test that the packages install cleanly, and work with some apps that use that package.
19:33:33 <wilcal> David would Apache not work if PHP got installed wrong
19:34:50 <DavidWHodgins> Apache would still work, but apps like phpmyadmin would not.
19:36:23 <wilcal> Sound like I'm gonna learn to use phpmyadmin  :-))
19:36:24 <DavidWHodgins> Use "urpmq --whatrequires apache-mod_php" to see which other packages can be used to test php in a browser.
19:36:28 <wilcal> run it anyway
19:37:01 <wilcal> Thanks David that's a good start
19:37:11 <wilcal> Anything else on testing updates
19:37:18 <lewyssmith> If you have Moodle installed, that uses PHP a lot.
19:38:33 <wilcal> Sounds like get'n that bug pushed should be easy
19:38:59 <wilcal> Anyway lets get Luigi in here
19:39:09 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates
19:39:17 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup
19:39:20 <lewyssmith> He said he cannot be here.
19:39:31 <wilcal> OOooOo may be a short meeting
19:39:42 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work_: ping
19:39:48 <wilcal> He would have said that the Chrome thing is important
19:40:13 <wilcal> I pushed the wrong button at 12:39 :-0
19:40:35 <wilcal> That's the one red security update
19:40:55 <lewyssmith> "I won't be there either, as we have our conference championship track meet starting this afternoon.  For the roundup, I don't have much to say about the packages already assigned to QA.  For ones that will hopefully be coming soon, several are waiting for help from packagers, as you can see here:
19:40:55 <lewyssmith> https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=comp:secu+-@qa-b"
19:40:56 <DavidWHodgins> I missed the message from Luigi12_work_ that he wouldn't be here. Was that only on irc?
19:41:13 <lewyssmith> Mailgroup.
19:41:48 <wilcal> Then lets push on
19:41:54 <DavidWHodgins> Just fetching 312 new messages here.
19:41:59 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else?
19:42:15 <DavidWHodgins> Updates policy
19:42:27 <lewyssmith> Oh?
19:42:35 <Kernewes> ?
19:42:45 <DavidWHodgins> But I'd rather wait till Claire can be present to discuss it.
19:42:59 <lewyssmith> Kernewes: Less typing!
19:43:03 <wilcal> Good subject David I agree MrsB has to be here for that
19:43:06 <DavidWHodgins> Allowing new packages as updates, for stable releases.
19:43:23 <Kernewes> how can a new package be an update?
19:43:46 <DavidWHodgins> It goes into updates testing, we test it, then it goes into updates.
19:43:49 <Kernewes> you mean treat them as if they were
19:44:01 <wilcal> Major update for a package. For me that would be OpenShot Ver 1 -> Ver 2
19:44:14 <DavidWHodgins> We did that for packages missing from Mageia 1, that were present in Mandriva 2010.2
19:44:37 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: you mean like a new game so people don't have to wait for the next release?
19:44:39 <DavidWHodgins> Not a version update. New packages only
19:44:45 <wilcal> OK
19:44:53 <lewyssmith> Somebody was wary about taking on board additional pkgs.
19:45:06 <Kernewes> we can't keep up with the existing ones :(
19:45:12 <lewyssmith> Opening a floodgate perhaps.
19:45:31 <wilcal> Nothing gets smaller in Computers :-o
19:45:37 <Kernewes> wouldn't it encourage the packagers to concentrate even more on new stuff and not do updates?
19:45:41 <DavidWHodgins> Version updates are only allowed if the upstream doesn't support our current version, and the secuity/bugfix changes are too hard to backport to the current version.
19:45:54 <Kernewes> Luigi needs more help with updates as it is
19:46:05 <wilcal> brb
19:46:30 <DavidWHodgins> It would only be allowed for "leaf" packages, that have no impact on other packages.
19:46:40 <DavidWHodgins> Like isodumper.
19:47:54 <DavidWHodgins> But, as I said before, I'd like to wait till Claire can be present before deciding, and once we've decided, take it to the council for formal approval.
19:48:03 <Kernewes> fine
19:48:29 <lewyssmith> Who was it who did not like the idea? tmb?
19:48:59 <wilcal> back
19:49:36 <wilcal> Also more discussion on Auto testing
19:49:49 <wilcal> Easy scripted proceedures or something
19:49:50 <DavidWHodgins> Claire was the only one who questioned it so far, on the mailing list. She apparently missed that it would be for new packages only, in my original suggestion.
19:50:00 <Kernewes> I thought auto testing had to be worked out with the sysadmins or something
19:50:05 <tmb> well, I dont think we should open up the gates even for leaf packages, but isodumper is ok to push...
19:50:26 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins: No, someone else very expert did not like it.
19:50:44 <tmb> I'd rather keeping the gates closed as a "carrot" to try and fix backports
19:51:05 <Kernewes> wilcal: have a look at the last Council meeting minutes, I think auto testing was discussed there
19:51:15 <wilcal> Yes, I remember that
19:51:22 <lewyssmith> We hammered it here recently.
19:52:31 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: I've used auto testing in the past. It works well for command line only programs, but with gui programs, it can cause more time to be spent testing the testing scripts, than it takes to test without the script.
19:52:53 <lewyssmith> And again.
19:53:08 <DavidWHodgins> Different screen resolutions can put input fields in a different order.
19:54:18 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: I'd still like to make an exception for isodumper, to make it easier for people who want to upgrade.
19:54:35 <tmb> well, for screen resolution, you can used a fixed size on a virtual machine
19:54:58 <wilcal> Anything else
19:55:00 <DavidWHodgins> Depending on your monitor size.
19:55:07 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here.
19:55:16 <lewyssmith> Not here.
19:55:16 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, yeah, I agreed with that above with the " but isodumper is ok to push..." :)
19:55:17 <Kernewes> not here
19:56:02 <wilcal> We've about covered it all today
19:56:21 <wilcal> Even for myself try something on the updates list every day
19:57:53 <wilcal> Anything else folks otherwise I'm gonna count it down
19:58:00 <Kernewes> go for it wilc
19:58:02 <tmb> nothing from me
19:58:05 <wilcal> Many thanks to all for attending
19:58:16 <wilcal> U keep warm up there tmb
19:58:19 <Kernewes> thanks to the two chairs
19:58:22 <wilcal> 5
19:58:23 <lewyssmith> Thanks for chairing. Goodbye everybody.
19:58:30 <wilcal> 4
19:58:35 <wilcal> 3
19:58:38 <wilcal> 2
19:58:40 <wilcal> 1
19:58:48 <wilcal> #endmeeting