19:00:01 <wilcal> #startmeeting 19:00:01 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu May 8 19:00:01 2014 UTC. The chair is wilcal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:01 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:08 <wilcal> See right on time 19:00:25 <lewyssmith> Hello Dave. 19:00:32 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa 19:00:32 <wilcal> #chair DavidWHodgins 19:00:32 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins wilcal 19:00:42 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: hello 19:00:43 <rindolf> DavidWHodgins: hi. 19:00:47 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? If you are then come along and say hello 19:01:15 <lewyssmith> Bonsoir Thierry 19:01:16 <rindolf> Well, swecarp is new but they are not here. 19:01:21 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone here who hasn't been to a qa irc meeting before? 19:01:53 <Kernewes> evidently not 19:02:06 <lewyssmith> Brave! 19:02:09 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Testing updates - We need more people doing this! 19:02:10 <wilcal> Thank you for being here David you must be feeling better 19:02:23 <DavidWHodgins> Still so so. 19:02:36 <lewyssmith> Are you, Dave, feeling better? 19:02:50 <wilcal> We've kinda kept up with the updates but still quite some on the list 19:03:00 <rindolf> wilcal: I may be able to help. 19:03:08 <wilcal> Several have been sticking there for too long 19:03:11 <wilcal> thanks rin 19:03:11 <rindolf> wilcal: I'm looking for something to keep me busy. 19:03:14 <DavidWHodgins> Better, but not yet well enough to be testing updates as I should be. 19:03:29 <rindolf> DavidWHodgins: I hope you feel better soon. 19:03:36 <wilcal> An easy one just went up with Chrome 19:03:49 <Kernewes> I'd hoped to do some last weekend but my internet wasn't back in time 19:04:06 <Kernewes> this weekend I'll probably be busy helping my neighbour who's having an op tomorrow 19:04:07 <wilcal> I've a couple to bring to the table here to see if we can get'em moved along 19:04:19 <DavidWHodgins> I've just started syncing the latest 4.1 iso images. 19:04:27 <lewyssmith> I can try 13338 13325 13185, but only for MGA4 64-bit. 19:04:43 <wilcal> How can we move along (enlightenment): 19:04:44 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13032 19:04:46 <[mbot> Bug 13032: minor, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , [enlightenment] update e from 0.17.5 to 0.17.6, e-0.17.5-1.mga4.src.rpm 19:04:46 <wilcal> It's been on the list 29 days. 19:05:03 <lewyssmith> By someone else trying it! 19:05:03 <wilcal> Can we take (gnome): 19:05:05 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12830 19:05:06 <[mbot> Bug 12830: major, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , Gnome keyring do not start properly under MATE, gnome-keyring-3.10.1-2.mga4.src.rpm 19:05:06 <wilcal> off the list and give it back to dev? 19:05:08 <wilcal> It's been on the list for 61 days and is awaiting packager feedback. 19:05:15 <lewyssmith> It only needs to be installed & used a littlr. 19:05:19 <DavidWHodgins> We have to give priority to security bugs. 19:05:52 <wilcal> Ya Luigi is gonna wanna get that Chrome thing out asap i think 19:06:07 <lewyssmith> We need more bodies. I say this every week. 19:06:31 <wilcal> We've never enough people and time 19:06:51 <wilcal> but I don't find this any different then Mandrake/Mandriva was years ago 19:07:03 <lewyssmith> We have fewer now than ever, it seems to me. 19:07:34 <wilcal> But it's the bestest core of people 19:07:44 <wilcal> I try to poke at something every day 19:08:06 <lewyssmith> Me often, but it is not enough. 19:08:21 <Kernewes> weekday evenings are becoming impossible for me now with the chronic fatigue 19:08:46 <wilcal> We finally got those Kernels outta there 19:09:30 <DavidWHodgins> kernel testing is very tedious, as there are so many of them. 19:09:51 <lewyssmith> I suspect only you try the lot. 19:09:54 <wilcal> Ya lots of baseball on TV last weekend so lots of Kernel testing :-)) 19:10:02 <tmb> and more will come... 19:10:05 * tmb hides 19:10:08 <wilcal> I learned a lot this time 19:10:12 <DavidWHodgins> lol 19:10:24 <wilcal> Sorry I still had one small wrinkle in your Kernel tmb 19:10:59 <wilcal> I bet that wrinkle to back quite some time 19:11:11 <wilcal> it was there in M3 19:11:31 <wilcal> not quite sure what's going on there it's fine on real hardware 19:11:42 <tmb> wilcal, no problem, it can wait for the second round of updates... the "official" kernel is always more critical than the rest 19:11:53 <wilcal> tmb server kernel don't like my vbox setup 19:12:30 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Is it the X server refusing to start? 19:13:10 <wilcal> Actuall no it crashes immediate after grub selection 19:13:27 <wilcal> desktop is just fine 19:13:43 <wilcal> I was actually running both Vbox clients at the same time 19:14:04 <wilcal> both desktops ran, i586 server crashes 19:14:35 <RemyServices> ill try to test those tonight on hyper-v as well 19:14:45 <RemyServices> see if i too have the server crash 19:14:46 <wilcal> Thks Remy 19:15:08 <tmb> otoh failing in vbox is not critical for atleast -tmb and -rt kernels as they focus on more speed / realtime, something that virtualization is not helping with, especially vbox 19:15:45 <wilcal> We have quite a few waiting for developers. Can we take them off the list or something 19:16:06 <wilcal> Especially the Gnome thingy 19:16:07 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: We need more info than "crashes". After it crashes, boot with a kernel that does work, and use journalctl to get the error messages. 19:16:50 <wilcal> I'll give that a go in the next days David 19:17:13 <wilcal> Can we take (gnome): 19:17:15 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12830 19:17:16 <[mbot> Bug 12830: major, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , Gnome keyring do not start properly under MATE, gnome-keyring-3.10.1-2.mga4.src.rpm 19:17:16 <wilcal> off the list and give it back to dev? 19:17:18 <wilcal> It's been on the list for 61 days and is awaiting packager feedback. 19:18:19 <wilcal> prosody's been there a week wait'n for developer input 19:18:34 <wilcal> Sorry I'm reverting back to being "Mr. Executive" 19:20:47 <wilcal> Anything we can do with 19:20:48 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13032 19:20:50 <[mbot> Bug 13032: minor, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , [enlightenment] update e from 0.17.5 to 0.17.6, e-0.17.5-1.mga4.src.rpm 19:20:51 <wilcal> Lewis 19:20:58 <DavidWHodgins> Looks like the last comment on that bug was a question for me. I'll try and test it later today. 19:21:35 <DavidWHodgins> As it's a bugfix, it has to wait till we have all of the security updates tested. 19:21:37 <wilcal> Thanks David 19:21:44 <lewyssmith> It just needs more testers. Just install & use a bit. Easy. 19:22:08 <wilcal> Ah one of those bugs that has to state somewhere that it need more then one tester 19:22:23 <lewyssmith> The stopper was not being able to login... 19:23:13 <wilcal> I put "Needs more then one tester" in there 19:23:26 <lewyssmith> But maybe that was just my setup. 19:24:29 <wilcal> Can someone help me to easily start the lightdm environment somehow I've not been able to start that 19:25:24 <DavidWHodgins> mcc/boot/Setup display manager 19:25:36 <lewyssmith> If it is installed, you go to MCC and ask it to use lightDM - as Dave just said! 19:25:49 <DavidWHodgins> Provided it's already installed. 19:26:10 <lewyssmith> If it is not, you cannot chose it. 19:26:15 <wilcal> I seem to have tried all that and never seen LightDM listed 19:26:26 <wilcal> Even if it's installed 19:26:28 <diogenese> I've been using it. 19:26:43 <wilcal> Is it called LightDM? 19:26:48 <diogenese> Yes 19:26:55 <wilcal> I'm do'n something wrong 19:26:55 <DavidWHodgins> It shows in the list of available DM's here. 19:27:14 <lewyssmith> Here also. 19:27:30 <wilcal> How about an easy way to test 19:27:32 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13290 19:27:33 <[mbot> Bug 13290: major, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , php (php-fpm) new security issue CVE-2014-0185, php-5.5.11-1.mga4.src.rpm 19:28:21 <wilcal> Something that just confirms it got updated 19:28:33 <DavidWHodgins> With most php updates, if there is no proof of concept included, we usually just test that things like phpmyadmin work. 19:29:08 <lewyssmith> An awful lot of pkgs to check installed then update. 19:29:20 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 19:29:53 <wilcal> Maybe we can just name a few apps to run and if they do then php got updated 19:29:54 <DavidWHodgins> For most of them, as they haven't really changed, just need to ensure they install cleanly. 19:30:12 <wilcal> Put that into this BUG and w've an easy test process, there is none now 19:30:23 <lewyssmith> I might try sorting the list to aid things. 19:30:34 <wilcal> Kinda almost everything uses PHP or almost 19:31:00 <DavidWHodgins> Most web apps do. 19:31:32 <wilcal> Update PHP run browser, Filezilla ect ect if they run it got installed and is running 19:31:45 <wilcal> Would that be right? 19:31:49 <DavidWHodgins> Yes 19:32:01 <wilcal> Sounds like a test process to me 19:32:22 <lewyssmith> Does Filezilla use PHP? 19:32:25 <diogenese> I have 20 instances of mediawiki installed. Those put PHP to the test. I could update and see if they still work. 19:32:30 <wilcal> I've got some things to do this afternoon but will give it a go this evening 19:32:48 <wilcal> Easy testing 19:33:29 <DavidWHodgins> If there is a poc, we test to see if it the bug is present before installing the update, then test again after installing the update. If there is no poc, we just test that the packages install cleanly, and work with some apps that use that package. 19:33:33 <wilcal> David would Apache not work if PHP got installed wrong 19:34:50 <DavidWHodgins> Apache would still work, but apps like phpmyadmin would not. 19:36:23 <wilcal> Sound like I'm gonna learn to use phpmyadmin :-)) 19:36:24 <DavidWHodgins> Use "urpmq --whatrequires apache-mod_php" to see which other packages can be used to test php in a browser. 19:36:28 <wilcal> run it anyway 19:37:01 <wilcal> Thanks David that's a good start 19:37:11 <wilcal> Anything else on testing updates 19:37:18 <lewyssmith> If you have Moodle installed, that uses PHP a lot. 19:38:33 <wilcal> Sounds like get'n that bug pushed should be easy 19:38:59 <wilcal> Anyway lets get Luigi in here 19:39:09 <wilcal> #topic Testing Updates 19:39:17 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup 19:39:20 <lewyssmith> He said he cannot be here. 19:39:31 <wilcal> OOooOo may be a short meeting 19:39:42 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work_: ping 19:39:48 <wilcal> He would have said that the Chrome thing is important 19:40:13 <wilcal> I pushed the wrong button at 12:39 :-0 19:40:35 <wilcal> That's the one red security update 19:40:55 <lewyssmith> "I won't be there either, as we have our conference championship track meet starting this afternoon. For the roundup, I don't have much to say about the packages already assigned to QA. For ones that will hopefully be coming soon, several are waiting for help from packagers, as you can see here: 19:40:55 <lewyssmith> https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=comp:secu+-@qa-b" 19:40:56 <DavidWHodgins> I missed the message from Luigi12_work_ that he wouldn't be here. Was that only on irc? 19:41:13 <lewyssmith> Mailgroup. 19:41:48 <wilcal> Then lets push on 19:41:54 <DavidWHodgins> Just fetching 312 new messages here. 19:41:59 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else? 19:42:15 <DavidWHodgins> Updates policy 19:42:27 <lewyssmith> Oh? 19:42:35 <Kernewes> ? 19:42:45 <DavidWHodgins> But I'd rather wait till Claire can be present to discuss it. 19:42:59 <lewyssmith> Kernewes: Less typing! 19:43:03 <wilcal> Good subject David I agree MrsB has to be here for that 19:43:06 <DavidWHodgins> Allowing new packages as updates, for stable releases. 19:43:23 <Kernewes> how can a new package be an update? 19:43:46 <DavidWHodgins> It goes into updates testing, we test it, then it goes into updates. 19:43:49 <Kernewes> you mean treat them as if they were 19:44:01 <wilcal> Major update for a package. For me that would be OpenShot Ver 1 -> Ver 2 19:44:14 <DavidWHodgins> We did that for packages missing from Mageia 1, that were present in Mandriva 2010.2 19:44:37 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: you mean like a new game so people don't have to wait for the next release? 19:44:39 <DavidWHodgins> Not a version update. New packages only 19:44:45 <wilcal> OK 19:44:53 <lewyssmith> Somebody was wary about taking on board additional pkgs. 19:45:06 <Kernewes> we can't keep up with the existing ones :( 19:45:12 <lewyssmith> Opening a floodgate perhaps. 19:45:31 <wilcal> Nothing gets smaller in Computers :-o 19:45:37 <Kernewes> wouldn't it encourage the packagers to concentrate even more on new stuff and not do updates? 19:45:41 <DavidWHodgins> Version updates are only allowed if the upstream doesn't support our current version, and the secuity/bugfix changes are too hard to backport to the current version. 19:45:54 <Kernewes> Luigi needs more help with updates as it is 19:46:05 <wilcal> brb 19:46:30 <DavidWHodgins> It would only be allowed for "leaf" packages, that have no impact on other packages. 19:46:40 <DavidWHodgins> Like isodumper. 19:47:54 <DavidWHodgins> But, as I said before, I'd like to wait till Claire can be present before deciding, and once we've decided, take it to the council for formal approval. 19:48:03 <Kernewes> fine 19:48:29 <lewyssmith> Who was it who did not like the idea? tmb? 19:48:59 <wilcal> back 19:49:36 <wilcal> Also more discussion on Auto testing 19:49:49 <wilcal> Easy scripted proceedures or something 19:49:50 <DavidWHodgins> Claire was the only one who questioned it so far, on the mailing list. She apparently missed that it would be for new packages only, in my original suggestion. 19:50:00 <Kernewes> I thought auto testing had to be worked out with the sysadmins or something 19:50:05 <tmb> well, I dont think we should open up the gates even for leaf packages, but isodumper is ok to push... 19:50:26 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins: No, someone else very expert did not like it. 19:50:44 <tmb> I'd rather keeping the gates closed as a "carrot" to try and fix backports 19:51:05 <Kernewes> wilcal: have a look at the last Council meeting minutes, I think auto testing was discussed there 19:51:15 <wilcal> Yes, I remember that 19:51:22 <lewyssmith> We hammered it here recently. 19:52:31 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: I've used auto testing in the past. It works well for command line only programs, but with gui programs, it can cause more time to be spent testing the testing scripts, than it takes to test without the script. 19:52:53 <lewyssmith> And again. 19:53:08 <DavidWHodgins> Different screen resolutions can put input fields in a different order. 19:54:18 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: I'd still like to make an exception for isodumper, to make it easier for people who want to upgrade. 19:54:35 <tmb> well, for screen resolution, you can used a fixed size on a virtual machine 19:54:58 <wilcal> Anything else 19:55:00 <DavidWHodgins> Depending on your monitor size. 19:55:07 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here. 19:55:16 <lewyssmith> Not here. 19:55:16 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, yeah, I agreed with that above with the " but isodumper is ok to push..." :) 19:55:17 <Kernewes> not here 19:56:02 <wilcal> We've about covered it all today 19:56:21 <wilcal> Even for myself try something on the updates list every day 19:57:53 <wilcal> Anything else folks otherwise I'm gonna count it down 19:58:00 <Kernewes> go for it wilc 19:58:02 <tmb> nothing from me 19:58:05 <wilcal> Many thanks to all for attending 19:58:16 <wilcal> U keep warm up there tmb 19:58:19 <Kernewes> thanks to the two chairs 19:58:22 <wilcal> 5 19:58:23 <lewyssmith> Thanks for chairing. Goodbye everybody. 19:58:30 <wilcal> 4 19:58:35 <wilcal> 3 19:58:38 <wilcal> 2 19:58:40 <wilcal> 1 19:58:48 <wilcal> #endmeeting