20:06:41 <DavidWHodgins> #startmeeting
20:06:41 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Mar 20 20:06:41 2014 UTC.  The chair is DavidWHodgins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:06:41 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:06:46 <DavidWHodgins> #chair wilcal
20:06:46 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins wilcal
20:07:45 <wilcal> Log should be run'n right?
20:07:49 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? - if you are then come and say Hi
20:08:06 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Yep mbot is in the nic list
20:08:31 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone here who hasn't been to a qa irc meeting before?
20:09:02 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Mageia 4.1 - Status, issues, etc
20:09:17 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone found any major problems with 4.1?
20:09:35 <wilcal> I'm not finding anything that's worth reporting
20:09:42 <dvg_i> no, but 4,0 was okay for me too
20:09:46 <wilcal> I guess my DVD player is very compatible
20:09:55 <lewis__> I am sort of testing the 64-bit Classic. No new probs so far.
20:10:04 <wilcal> There's a problem with some DVD players and that's why 4.1
20:10:10 <tmb> has the missing nonfree drivers issue veen solved ?
20:10:14 <dvg_i> and not clear if sll isos are now dinal or waiting for update?
20:10:24 <dvg_i> final...
20:10:33 <wilcal> when was the last time the ISO's were updated
20:11:00 <dvg_i> 8 or 10/3 or stg
20:11:08 <lewis__> I  thought the Classic still had kernel variant issues.
20:11:20 <wilcal> 3/11 for the Classic is what I have here
20:11:34 <DavidWHodgins> March 10th for the classic i586
20:12:00 <tmb> lives are March 8th, classic dvds has march 13th
20:12:05 <rindolf> I have kinda neglected to test 4.1 - I have been distracted and also did not know when the ISOs were safe to download or what needs testing.
20:12:05 <wilcal> And it's still only just a few people who have problems right David?
20:12:17 <DavidWHodgins> Yes.
20:12:23 <tmb> (according to DATE.txt)
20:12:27 <wilcal> cuz I'm just not seeing problems here
20:12:39 <dvg_i> nor here
20:12:57 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: I'm not sure about the drivers. I'll have to go back to your msg in the discuss mailing list, and then check it.
20:12:58 <lewis__> tmb noted on the 12th Classic package discrepencies.
20:13:00 <wilcal> Mon Mar 10 16:41:09 CET 2014 is what I have here tmb
20:13:13 <tmb> iirc marja ht some issues with the 32bit classic
20:13:28 <tmb> wilcal, when did you sync last ?
20:13:40 <wilcal> It's been about a week
20:13:52 <wilcal> I'll try again after this meeting
20:14:10 <wilcal> It's the Classic installers with probs Live media has always been ok?
20:14:15 <lewis__> If the Classic ISOs were updated 13th, there were not announced.
20:14:36 <wilcal> I can run testing on the CI's again
20:14:50 <wilcal> But I just don't see probs
20:15:38 <marja11> tmb: yes, with the (at that time latest) 32bits from the QA repo.... it didn't boot anyfurther than the syslinux message
20:15:47 <wilcal> my notes are still in http://bn.parinux.org/p/mageia4v2
20:15:48 <[mbot> [ Etherpad Lite ]
20:15:59 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Just started a sync, and there is a new i586 classic dvd downloading now, dated Mar 13th.
20:16:45 <wilcal> So within 24-hours I'll have tested the CI's again
20:17:11 <lewis__> DavidWHodgins: agrees with tmb.
20:17:19 <wilcal> I'll zero out http://bn.parinux.org/p/mageia4v2 if no one has posted something
20:17:20 <[mbot> [ Etherpad Lite ]
20:17:28 <dvg_i> Afaik i tested the latest classicals, if there are new ones, i dunno about ghem!
20:17:37 <wilcal> Or you can do that David, who ever gets there first
20:17:52 <tmb> ok, I will review the rpm lists on the new isos to see if there are still missing packages
20:18:06 <marja11> DavidWHodgins: I had that issue with the March 13th 32bits classical iso
20:18:07 <lewis__> I posted installation notes, but not yet desktops.
20:18:18 <DavidWHodgins> I don't remember a msg being posted to the discuss list, about the new iso images.
20:18:29 <lewis__> There was not.
20:19:24 <lewis__> Thomas's note of the 12th was the last word.
20:19:38 <tmb> :/
20:19:57 <wilcal> Anyway lets give'em a look in the next couple days
20:20:11 <wilcal> Do you anticipate any more changes to 4.1 tmb?
20:20:45 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. If the only changes were fixing the nonfree packages, then it shouldn't take long to test.
20:20:52 <wilcal> 4.1 as of the 13th should be it?
20:21:01 <tmb> nothing more than fixed package lists, and I see latest isos again have syslinux 6.02 even if thy should have 6.03 :/
20:21:56 <lewis__> Could that effect the DVD install problem?
20:22:03 <tmb> ennael, ping !
20:22:11 <wilcal> Are we seeing any big problems in the field with 4.0 installs?
20:22:32 <DavidWHodgins> Not a lot.
20:22:33 <rindolf> marja11: hi.
20:22:35 <tmb> lewis__, well, 6.03 is the one supposed to fix non-booting isos on older systems
20:22:53 <lewis__> wilcal: Only that old BIOS DVD boot syslinux thingy.
20:23:07 <lewis__> tmb: Exactly.
20:23:25 <ennael> tmb: pong. Just at home... hard real life at the moment :)
20:23:40 <dvg_i> i can test anything new, but somebody else will need to check that the4.0 problems are gone, because i did not have any
20:23:56 <wilcal> Nor did I dvd_i
20:24:04 <tmb> ennael, seems you are getting old syslinux on the DVDs again :/
20:24:10 <ennael> I'va working yesterday on Luc Menut report about missing packages
20:24:13 <ennael> uh
20:24:35 <ennael> damned... this 4.1 will get me mad
20:24:44 <ennael> I did not change anything...
20:24:47 <lewis__> If Thomas says we need syslinux 6.03 & we have gone back to 6.02, this would be no good.
20:24:57 <ennael> let me have a look after diner
20:27:22 <tmb> ennael, I mean the isolinux/isolinux.bin is now 6.02 even if the unpacked one in frozen repo is 6.03
20:28:14 <ennael> yep as said I will have a look after filling my stomach... I have some aliens inside asking for food :)
20:28:49 <tmb> ennael, ok, ping or mail me if you need some help.
20:28:54 <ennael> ok
20:29:21 <tmb> ennael, if needed I can prep the frozen tree so only latest kernels/drivers are there
20:29:48 <DavidWHodgins> #info Looks like new classical iso images will be built to get correct version of syslinux on them.
20:30:30 <wilcal> So we should see some new CI's in the next days, yes?
20:30:58 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: What do you mean by "Cl's"?
20:31:16 <lewis__> CI = Classic Installer ?
20:31:33 <dvg_i> classical isos obviously
20:31:52 <lewis__> As you wish!
20:32:11 <tmb> CIA -> Classical Isos built by Anne :)
20:32:16 <dvg_i> :))
20:32:27 <lewis__> Good one.
20:32:30 <wilcal> Yes, Classical Installers
20:32:37 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:32:44 <wilcal> There are two 32-bit & 64-bit
20:32:45 <lewis__> I claim the prize.
20:32:58 <wilcal> Live media still looks golden
20:33:07 <dvg_i> same didference :)
20:33:16 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: There is also the dual-dvd
20:33:30 <wilcal> Yes, that too
20:34:26 <lewis__> Move on?
20:34:44 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Testing updates
20:34:59 <wilcal> The more we knock out the more show up
20:35:10 <lewis__> Most of them baffle me.
20:35:18 <DavidWHodgins> I've been going through, and adding the advisories to svn, which I'll continue after the meeting.
20:35:40 <tmb> yeah, the downside of getting more packagers & users is getting more updates :)
20:36:09 <lewis__> Are we getting more users?
20:36:20 <wilcal> We've been keeping up with the red security updates though
20:36:39 <tmb> atleast users reporting bugs they want fixed :)
20:36:39 <lewis__> Not quite...
20:37:19 <lewis__> the 389-ds thing is heavy.
20:38:02 <DavidWHodgins> lewis__: I'll do that one, as soon as I get the rest of the security advisories added to svn.
20:38:37 <lewis__> You could do stunnel too, as you have been there before & use it apparently.
20:38:40 <wilcal> I'm not very good with db stuff still tinkering to become usful
20:39:02 <wilcal> I'll give a shot at the hal thingy https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8179
20:39:03 <[mbot> Bug 8179: normal, Normal, qa-bugs, REOPENED , hal is needed for flash-player protected content playback, flash-player-plugin
20:39:21 <lewis__> I have started that for 64-bit M4.
20:39:55 <wilcal> multiple people testing the same thing is a good thing
20:40:21 <lewis__> Not when overloaded. Duplicated effort.
20:40:34 <wilcal> lewis: you work on real hardware or Vbox?
20:40:39 <lewis__> Real.
20:40:57 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Do you have any drm protected content to test it with? I don't
20:41:18 <wilcal> There's a test proceedure in 8179 that looks usable
20:41:44 <lewis__> DavidWHodgins: The bug gives exact details. I have done the does-not-work stage.
20:42:22 <lewis__> Just need to test-update & retry.
20:42:52 <wilcal> I love to test in Vbox because I can really screw it up then start all over  :-))
20:43:27 <diogenese> Snapshots are nifty aren't they :)
20:43:57 <lewis__> Some of the security bugs even confuse the developers it seems.
20:44:03 * mga4gazer tests on real h/w expecting to re-install
20:44:16 <wilcal> Snapshots and Clone's
20:44:20 <lewis__> Evening mga4gazer;
20:44:27 <mga4gazer> lo lewis__
20:44:35 <wilcal> I have a working clone of all the active Mageia releases
20:45:32 <DavidWHodgins> I use rsync to backup (aka snapshot), my real hardware test installs, and also use snapshots in my vb installs.
20:46:25 <DavidWHodgins> Any other questions on testing updates, before we go to next topic?
20:47:03 <wilcal> lets move on
20:47:11 <lewis__> Seconded.
20:47:18 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup
20:47:19 <Luigi12_lappy> ugh, I mean hi
20:47:26 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:47:43 <DavidWHodgins> What new updates are we expecting?
20:47:53 <Luigi12_lappy> fail2ban, remmy says he'll do that one this weekend
20:47:55 <wilcal> Hello Liugi
20:48:07 <Luigi12_lappy> python3 should have an update soon
20:48:20 <Luigi12_lappy> hopefully we'll have an update for the gd image library soon
20:48:46 <Luigi12_lappy> other than that, same old stuff I've been waiting on other packagers for
20:49:20 <tmb> I'll try to fix virtualbox and tomcat this we ( you never heard that before, have you ... )
20:49:26 <Luigi12_lappy> :o)
20:49:33 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:49:42 <wilcal> Thanks tmb I'll jump on that as soon as it shows up
20:50:08 <wilcal> That I test on real hardware
20:50:18 <Luigi12_lappy> hopefully tv will help with cups/cups-filters
20:50:40 <wilcal> i586 4GB is not recommended for VirtualBox operation
20:50:43 <Luigi12_lappy> wilcal: make sure you test running X with the updated packages in the guest too
20:50:53 <Luigi12_lappy> wilcal: why not?  works great for me
20:51:12 <wilcal> Patience is a virtue
20:51:19 <Luigi12_lappy> my VMs run fine
20:51:43 <wilcal> What's your i586 platform?
20:51:49 <Luigi12_lappy> anyway that's all I have, any questions for me?
20:51:59 <wilcal> not from me
20:52:00 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: I give all of my vb guests 4GB. The i586 guests only show 3.something available
20:52:03 <Luigi12_lappy> wilcal: not sure what you mean, it's a computer I got in August 2009
20:52:11 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks Luigi12_lappy
20:52:18 <Luigi12_lappy> yay I can lay back down
20:52:29 <wilcal> rest Luigi
20:52:33 <diogenese> :)
20:52:35 <DavidWHodgins> #topic  Anything else?
20:52:35 <Luigi12_lappy> thanks
20:53:13 <lewis__> Reminder: last days to ask for M5 things.
20:53:44 <DavidWHodgins> The less features being added, the better the chances of releasing on time. :-)
20:53:50 <mga4gazer> can we add the "detox" command
20:53:53 <mga4gazer> ?
20:54:11 <lewis__> DavidWHodgins: My feature is going to be FEWER ISOs, so agree!
20:54:19 <wilcal> Looks like the bleeding edge video editors aren't gonna make it into M5 oh well maybe M6
20:54:24 <DavidWHodgins> mga4gazer: What does it do?
20:54:39 <mga4gazer> http://detox.sourceforge.net/
20:54:40 <[mbot> [ Detox - cleans up filenames ]
20:54:46 <tmb> alias detox rm -rf /
20:54:50 <mga4gazer> very useful when you need it
20:54:52 <Luigi12_lappy> oh I thought it was something to make me feel better :o(
20:55:08 <tmb> :)
20:55:11 <Luigi12_lappy> also, if you're going to propose features, make sure you're prepared to help implement them
20:55:39 <lewis__> I noticed that. It is not indicated in the guidelines.
20:55:58 <mga4gazer> will do. I reacll detox in earlier mga (or was it mandriva?)
20:56:21 <DavidWHodgins> http://linux.die.net/man/1/detox
20:56:22 <[mbot> [ detox(1): clean up filenames - Linux man page ]
20:56:28 <Luigi12_lappy> lewis__: it's the "resources" part.  Features will not be approved without "resources" to implement them
20:56:55 <DavidWHodgins> Looks useful. Just have to find a packager willing to add it.
20:57:23 <lewis__> But making a suggestion does  not mean knowing or having the necessary resources - does it?
20:57:55 <Luigi12_lappy> lewis__: suggestions can always be made on the dev list.  If one is making an official Feature suggestion wiki page, then you need resources
20:58:33 <lewis__> Is this stated anywhere?
20:59:17 <Luigi12_lappy> it should be in the feature guidelines, and it has been mentioned on the dev list in the past
20:59:47 <lewis__> i.e. that *you* make yourself the resource?
20:59:56 <DavidWHodgins> It uses the bsd license. Luigi12_lappy Is that ok?
21:00:00 <tmb> lewis__, https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Features_policy#Criteria_used_to_choose_features and https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Features_policy#Criteria_used_to_choose_features
21:00:04 <Luigi12_lappy> DavidWHodgins: absolutely
21:00:35 <Luigi12_lappy> either I'm seeing double now, or tmb posted the same link twice :o)
21:01:00 <lewis__> tmb: I read that carefully enough; but perhaps not...
21:01:19 <Luigi12_lappy> the bottom line is, Mageia is what YOU make it, not what you think others should make it for you.  That should be our motto :o)
21:01:38 <lewis__> Contributing ideas is no bad thing.
21:01:50 <Luigi12_lappy> sure, it's a matter of how you go about it
21:01:52 <tmb> the second was meant to be: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Features_policy#Features_acceptance
21:02:08 <tmb> lewis__, for example " amount of people that plan to be involved in the feature: a feature cannot be implemented if nobody plans to work on it "
21:02:26 <lewis__> OK.
21:02:42 <Luigi12_lappy> and posting it as an official proposal with no resources is just wasting people's time
21:02:56 <Luigi12_lappy> posting it as an idea on the dev list and seeing if you can find people willing to help with it is OK
21:03:01 <tmb> you can always suggest things, but we need to find someone to actually does the woek...
21:03:04 <tmb> work...
21:03:47 <lewis__> How, for example, is Installer development driven?
21:04:11 <tmb> currently by the mood of tv :)
21:04:36 <Luigi12_lappy> :o)
21:04:52 <lewis__> The developer doing his own thing.
21:05:06 <DavidWHodgins> We definitely need more people who actually like perl. :-)
21:05:19 <Luigi12_lappy> that may be wishful thinking
21:05:19 <lewis__> I used to.
21:05:24 <Luigi12_lappy> willing to put with perl maybe :o)
21:05:39 <Luigi12_lappy> put up with I meant
21:05:57 <tmb> but colin proposed a full review of drakx & co on -dev ml wich is a start
21:06:15 <lewis__> But we are QA, not developers.
21:06:19 <DavidWHodgins> I can usually figure out what the code is doing, but it can be a real pain.
21:06:40 <DavidWHodgins> When I file a bug report, if possible, I include the solution.
21:06:58 <lewis__> That's the ideal.
21:07:05 <tmb> including ui abstraction de-coupling it to a "standalone project" and things like that...
21:07:06 <wilcal> Test/reproduce proceedure is what I look for
21:07:49 <DavidWHodgins> I like troubleshooting, so I can often figure out not just what's wrong, but why.
21:08:59 <DavidWHodgins> Helps to speed up getting bugs fixed, but gives us more updates to test. :-)
21:09:09 <tmb> :9
21:09:13 <tmb> :)
21:09:22 * tmb cant type
21:09:38 <DavidWHodgins>21:09:39 <lewis__> can't
21:10:12 <mga4gazer> %)         (Picasso smiley)
21:10:33 <lewis__> Self-fulfilling prophesy.
21:10:36 <DavidWHodgins> #info Remember everyone, new features requests have to be in by March 24th.
21:11:35 <wilcal> I've got one to put in there
21:12:22 <DavidWHodgins> #info See https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Features_policy for info on requesting a feature.
21:12:38 <Luigi12_lappy> s/requesting/propsing/
21:12:46 <Luigi12_lappy> proposing even
21:12:53 <lewis__> !
21:13:12 <DavidWHodgins> close enough. :-)
21:13:28 <wilcal> Big push to get lightworks working on Fedora & Suse, Beta RPM available for download. I
21:13:29 <tmb> seens it's contagious
21:13:38 <wilcal> I'll give it a go on M4
21:14:01 <Luigi12_lappy> I suppose if you ignore what we've been talking about for the last 20 minutes :P
21:14:32 <lewis__> Then?
21:14:46 <DavidWHodgins> Probably best to discuss a possible feature on the dev list, to see if there are any packagers interested, before proposing the new feature.
21:15:00 <wilcal> Will do
21:15:03 <lewis__> That is a good idea.
21:15:25 <DavidWHodgins> #info Probably best to discuss a possible feature on the dev list, to see if there are any packagers interested, before proposing the new feature.
21:16:25 <DavidWHodgins> Ok, anything else, else, before closing the meeting?
21:16:31 <wilcal> Not from me
21:16:35 <lewis__> Nothere.
21:16:48 <dvg_i> nooe
21:16:51 <mga4gazer> nada
21:16:59 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks for coming everyone!
21:17:06 <DavidWHodgins> #endmeeting