20:07:25 <MrsB> #startmeeting 20:07:25 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Feb 13 20:07:25 2014 UTC. The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:07:25 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:07:53 <MrsB> Hi everybody welcome to another meeting 20:08:08 * MrsB looks around, who's going to get it 20:08:19 <MrsB> #chair wilcal 20:08:19 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: MrsB wilcal 20:08:21 * Kernewes hasn't seen the topics 20:08:24 <MrsB> :D 20:08:31 <wrw105> Hi, My name is Bill and I'm a Mageiaholic. 20:08:32 <wilcal> QA a bit over worked I'd say 20:08:53 <wilcal> No David today? 20:09:06 <lewyssmith> He must be bad. 20:09:12 <MrsB> not heard from him this week, I'll drop him an email tomorrow to see how he's doing 20:09:27 <lewyssmith> Send our sympathies. 20:09:31 <MrsB> #topic Who's new? 20:09:34 <MrsB> will do :) 20:09:41 <MrsB> Is there anybody new here today? 20:09:51 <MrsB> anyone joining us for the first time 20:10:18 <MrsB> doesn't look like it 20:10:32 <wilcal> For the record I said, and others too, good things about QA at the General meeting at FOSDEM. 20:10:40 <MrsB> #topic Testing Updates 20:10:45 <MrsB> that's good to hear wilcal 20:10:51 <wilcal> Wow testing updates WOW 20:11:01 <MrsB> surprise eh? 20:11:07 <MrsB> morning akien 20:11:25 <wilcal> Difficult to sort the really important ones from the not so important 20:11:39 <wilcal> I felt bad about filing another BUG today 20:11:41 <Kernewes> no it isn't, the important ones are the ones I can do 20:11:46 <Kernewes> i.e. hardly any 20:11:59 <lewyssmith> Doesn't the bold type help? 20:12:05 <wilcal> Yes 20:12:21 <MrsB> #info most of the updates have a procedure now 20:12:45 <MrsB> #info So priority, the major one right now is pkcs11 20:13:07 <lewyssmith> Just done my little bit! 20:13:10 <MrsB> that's the one which should cure all the issues for nvidia people with applications not starting 20:13:24 <lewyssmith> It' made for Bill. 20:13:35 <wilcal> Yes, I am deep into the Nvidia thing 20:13:36 <MrsB> i saw lewis thanks. We need anybody with nvidia and mga4 to test that please 20:13:52 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12696 20:13:53 <wilcal> empty /etc/pkcs11/pkcs11.conf breaks some apps with drivers nvidia 20:13:54 <Kernewes> I've only got Nvidia with Mga3 20:13:55 <[mbot> Bug 12696: major, High, qa-bugs, NEW , empty /etc/pkcs11/pkcs11.conf breaks some apps with drivers nvidia, p11-kit-0.20.1-3.mga4.src.rpm 20:14:10 <MrsB> it'll be obvious if it has worked, everything that didn't start before should now start 20:14:11 <wilcal> It's great to see other people jumping on that one 20:14:35 <wrw105> I can take a look at that one...just tried kwrite and it didn't start. 20:14:53 <wilcal> Fix is easy but it's a big problem 20:15:02 <MrsB> There are some security updates too tntnet and cxxtools can be tested together. Info on the tntnet bug how to do so. 20:15:19 <wilcal> Why does that one conf file do what it's ( not ) doing? It's an empty file 20:15:25 <lewyssmith> MrsB: Have just looked. Appreciate your notes. 20:15:52 <MrsB> Most of them have a test procedure listed now, you can always see which have on the madb page 20:15:56 <lewyssmith> wilcal: After the update? 20:15:58 <RemyServices> I'll be trying the tntnet set tonight 20:16:16 <wilcal> I was DEEPLY involved in the ffmpeg thing this morning 20:16:27 <wilcal> ffmpeg update to 2.0.3 20:16:29 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12698 20:16:32 <[mbot> Bug 12698: normal, Normal, qa-bugs, NEW , ffmpeg update to 2.0.3, ffmpeg-2.0.2-2.mga4.src.rpm 20:16:36 <MrsB> great, the gadu one is dead easy to test too so please have a go at it while you're doing stuff 20:16:37 <tmb> wilcal, thats the bug... it should ignore an empty file, but instead it crashes / hangs on it 20:16:46 <RemyServices> I keep looking at libpng to set it, but it is only i586, is there a way to mark 64 testing as completed or unneeded? 20:17:27 <MrsB> RemyServices: it's always both architectures 20:17:47 <MrsB> 64bit libs are actually lib64 but thats the only didfference 20:18:06 <tmb> (unless its a "noarch" package) 20:18:30 <MrsB> technically yes, but we still at least ensure it's built in both medias 20:18:37 <wilcal> The ffmpeg thing indicates some type of MCC listing problem?? 20:18:48 <RemyServices> MrsB: I'll take this offline then, I was having issues finding it, ill have another look tonight 20:19:07 <tmb> MrsB, true 20:19:10 <MrsB> Hard to say wilcal, I didn't follow what you were trying to say there 20:20:17 <MrsB> what exactly happened with it? 20:20:39 <wilcal> M4 i586 libavformat works just fine but M4 x86_64 lib64format does not get selected in the MCC 20:21:04 <wilcal> If I install it manually it works fine. Anyway me an luigi are work'n it 20:21:10 <MrsB> it will only be selected for update if it is actually installed first 20:21:53 <wilcal> I've another difficult BUG I'm working 20:22:03 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12137 20:22:05 <wilcal> Remote CUPS server not being detected automatically 20:22:06 <[mbot> Bug 12137: normal, release_blocker, mageia, ASSIGNED , Remote CUPS server not being detected automatically, only when searching for hostname, system-config-printer 20:22:07 * MrsB needs to get mga4 installed 20:22:34 <MrsB> I'm CC'd on that one. It's not ready for QA yet though. 20:22:40 <wilcal> then I found a problem with the flash-player-installer this morning 20:22:57 <MrsB> what kind of problem? 20:23:11 <wilcal> Anywa 20:23:13 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12759 20:23:14 <wilcal> Incompatible architecture for flash installer rpm 20:23:16 <[mbot> Bug 12759: normal, Normal, bugsquad, NEW , Incompatible architecture for flash installer rpm, flash-player-plugin-11.2.202.336-1.mga4.nonfree.x86_64.rpm 20:23:46 <MrsB> I suspect your medias are not configured correctly. I'll help you later to check if you like 20:24:27 <wilcal> They work fine with maybe 50 other rpm installs 20:24:33 <wilcal> this morning 20:24:54 <wilcal> next step is to resync and try again 20:25:06 <wilcal> Lotta stuff going on 20:25:07 <tmb> wilcal, you reported it against i586, but try to install an x86_64 ?? 20:25:13 <MrsB> ok, worth a check though maybe anyway. Later though, let's keep to the updates we already have :D 20:25:18 <wilcal> will do tmb 20:25:35 <Stormi> arch is easy to overlook in bugzilla :) 20:25:35 <wilcal> Ya I hated to open that BUG 20:25:51 <MrsB> If anybody has forgotten.. 20:25:53 <MrsB> http://mageia.madb.org/tools/updates 20:25:58 <MrsB> This is where to find them 20:26:01 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Current Update candidates ] 20:26:01 <Stormi> what's that page MrsB? 20:26:15 <MrsB> the longest page anywhere on the internet Stormi 20:26:19 <wilcal> What are the plans of the developers to help with backlog 20:26:32 <MrsB> morning :) 20:26:40 <lewyssmith> Very +ve 20:27:11 <MrsB> Well akien and stormi are helping out, colin has a bit too but made us another update in the progress :D 20:27:12 <tmb> wilcal, as stated we'll try to help flush them by the end of the week (meaning Sunday, not Friday) 20:27:41 <wilcal> Many many thanks 20:27:50 <Stormi> even Luigi12 tested an update 20:27:55 <MrsB> It doesn't mean we can sit back and wait for packagers to do our job for us though 20:27:55 <wilcal> Kool 20:27:56 <tmb> as many of us are swamped with $dayjob during weekdays 20:28:01 <dvg_l> i am about to try and start helping, if i can understand what is needed 20:28:06 <MrsB> thats true Stormi! 20:28:12 <Luigi12> Stormi: yeah :o) I wanted to test more of them, but then I realized I packaged almost all of them :o( 20:28:21 <Stormi> and neoclust all the mate updates a few days ago 20:28:27 <MrsB> dvg_l: if in any doubt please just ask, don't sit and get frustrated 20:28:36 <dvg_l> will do 20:28:38 <MrsB> yes neoclust did too, true 20:29:01 <Stormi> Luigi12: MrsB: I'd like to raise the "the packager can't test his own update" part of the policy actually, today or another time 20:29:11 <MrsB> It's still our burden to carry so please everybody dig in and lets get on top of these again 20:29:22 <lewyssmith> Extra help has been very impressive. 20:29:49 <MrsB> Stormi: you're pro that aren't IIRC 20:29:56 <MrsB> +you 20:29:58 <wilcal> I think the list is getting shorter 20:30:21 <Stormi> MrsB: yes, but I can detail my view later in a specific topic if we have time 20:30:27 <MrsB> it is, but only through alot of hard work, please can we all make sure we do our part too 20:30:35 <MrsB> sure Stormi 20:30:54 <wilcal> I'd like to get that ffmpeg bug outta there 20:31:02 <MrsB> #info most of the remaining updates have a procedure on the bug now 20:31:20 <lewyssmith> This is really helpful, claire. 20:31:42 <MrsB> They're mostly found through clicking the Bugzilla link on madb though lewis 20:32:02 <MrsB> if you see one without a procedure that's the best place to look 20:32:07 <Stormi> yes, that's what I did a few days ago for a bunch of updates, I knew that "yes" in the table is kind of magical 20:32:16 <MrsB> if you find one then add a link on the update bug :) 20:32:25 <lewyssmith> A ruse new to me. 20:32:41 <MrsB> you know which link i mean lewis? 20:32:44 <Luigi12> I looked at cxxtools/tntnet at work yesterday but didn't understand the test procedure. I got the project compliled, but I don't see what's supposed to listen on port 8000 or whatever it was 20:33:03 <Kernewes> MrsB: you mean the procedures aren't on a wiki page yet 20:33:28 <lewyssmith> MrsB: Proc available or Quick search? 20:33:32 <MrsB> not many Kernewes, feel free to add them there though :) 20:33:52 <Kernewes> MrsB: yes, I will when I run out of updates I can do 20:33:55 <MrsB> lewis, next to that, the end column, where it says Bugzilla / Wiki 20:34:06 <MrsB> click the word Bugzilla 20:34:13 <MrsB> it searches for previous updates 20:34:23 <lewyssmith> You live & learn. 20:34:39 <Stormi> that page is a swiss army knife 20:34:54 * Stormi humbly congratulates self 20:34:57 <MrsB> lol 20:35:05 * MrsB pats Stormi on th eback 20:35:22 <Stormi> thanks, my "eback" needed that 20:35:22 <Kernewes> I've had a busy week or so with real life, hope to do some testing again now 20:35:28 <MrsB> typo night again 20:35:46 <lewyssmith> In the cicumstances, eback seems legit. 20:35:51 <MrsB> great, if we all pull our weight we'll bring the list down in no time 20:36:04 * Kernewes slides a gin and tonic down to Stormi 20:36:04 <wilcal> Sounds like something printed on a t-shirt 20:36:14 <MrsB> many are quite easy to test, even puppet isn't too bad 20:37:07 <MrsB> testing things you've never heard of a a fantastic way to learn about stuff you would never otherwise realise existed 20:37:24 <MrsB> is a* 20:37:47 <MrsB> Are there any updates there we don't like the look of? 20:37:47 <wilcal> At least one new thing a week 20:38:17 <Stormi> pacemaker 20:38:36 <Stormi> this one has scared me for days 20:38:43 <Stormi> I avoid it and hope MrsB takes it :) 20:38:47 <MrsB> yes, that's about the only one now which is difficult. And a bit of a search i did earlier showed it might not even be that hard 20:38:50 <Kernewes> just hope we don't get power cuts 20:38:57 <wilcal> The /etc/pkcs11/pkcs11.conf could be a can of worms 20:39:14 <MrsB> Stormi: i'll have a crack at it in th emorning 20:39:20 <MrsB> the morning too 20:39:55 <lewyssmith> How to test 9878 generic MariaDB update? 20:40:00 <MrsB> pkcs11 is just basically ensuring the apps which didn't work before now do work and making sure you can still log in and out ok and things like kwallet work still 20:40:45 <wilcal> why does it effect only nvidia kwrite 20:40:58 <MrsB> mariadb is used by kde (akonadi) and also easily tested with webapps like phpmyadmin and anything which uses a database 20:41:18 <Luigi12> mariadb's proably the most important one that's not grayed out right now 20:41:36 <Luigi12> as far as security updates I mean 20:41:51 <Luigi12> obviously the pkcs11 thing is more important than all of them 20:42:02 <MrsB> yep, that's top priority at the moment 20:42:09 <MrsB> it's affecting alot of people 20:42:09 <tmb> wilcal, it triggers bad signal handling in nvidia driver, something that nvidia is working on fixing / improving 20:42:11 <wilcal> My concern on that is that it effects lots of things we don't know about 20:42:52 <wilcal> And I reported the Kwrite thing first over a month ago. Toss me out :-)) 20:43:11 <lewyssmith> That is why I said it was your baby. 20:43:19 <MrsB> you report it, you get to test it, that's just how it works ;) 20:43:30 <tmb> wilcal, nope, the fix is "simple" so the fallout is "0" (famous last words) 20:43:40 <Stormi> MrsB: tmb: what kind of issue could we see 20:43:46 <Stormi> *if* the package was broken 20:44:02 <Stormi> The whole system seems to depend on it so that's quite critical 20:44:04 <MrsB> You can always check what uses the libs using urpmq --whatrequires and then check those things still work ok with the update applied 20:44:11 <wilcal> I don't think there's anything wrong with Kwrite 20:44:30 <lewyssmith> It is not accused. 20:44:31 <Stormi> MrsB: urpmq --whatrequires-recursive p11-kit gives an MEGA list 20:44:45 <MrsB> yeah best to stick to --whatrequires 20:45:17 <Stormi> MrsB: which gives other libs 20:45:22 <tmb> Stormi, yes, but you need a buggy nvidia driver to trigger it, for the rest of the gpus/drivers they seem to cope nicely with it, 20:45:46 <Stormi> tmb: I have the nvidia problem and it is fixed by the update, but I'm looking for a way to test for regression 20:46:00 <Stormi> since it's so deep in the dependencies it could affect a lot of things if broken 20:46:27 <lewyssmith> Surely the fix is playing safe? 20:46:38 <MrsB> #info after checking the apps which didn't previously start, generally check nothing new seems broken on your system after installing pkcs11 updates. It has potential to affetc alot of things. 20:47:08 <Stormi> lewyssmith: I think so and it was reviewed by several packagers 20:47:41 <tmb> well, to put the fix simple: before the fix it tried to mmap an empty file, fail at it and then try to unmap an non-existing reference 20:47:47 <MrsB> Can everybody with mga4 please give it a go and particularly if you have nvidia 20:48:03 <MrsB> you said simple :P 20:48:08 <wilcal> Will do 20:48:09 <lewyssmith> Have done without nvidia though. 20:48:30 <RemyServices> will do 20:48:33 <MrsB> if you don't notice any new breakage it's probably fine lewis 20:48:47 <tmb> after the fix: try to mmap file, if empty / non-exstant, dont mmap, and dont try to unmap 20:48:57 <MrsB> we need to confirm the bug is fixed though as far as possible for as many as possible 20:49:49 <lewyssmith> It just did what it said it would: replaced an empty config file with a valid one. 20:50:06 <MrsB> good, and nothing new seems broken? 20:50:13 <lewyssmith> Not so far! 20:50:14 <Stormi> lewyssmith: not only, there's patch of code, that tmb just described 20:50:23 <Stormi> so the binaries are different 20:50:38 <Stormi> (which rpmdiff shows) 20:50:39 <lewyssmith> OK, I see the visible side. 20:50:41 <wrw105> I just got it installed here (after a boneheaded move) seems to be behaving kdewallet, kwrite. 20:50:58 <lewyssmith> See Bill? 20:50:59 <MrsB> So we need to put all this on the bug please 20:51:28 <wrw105> Once I finish here, I'll do a logout and login, test a bit more and add it to the bug. 20:51:39 <MrsB> are you nvidia wrw105? 20:51:54 <wrw105> nvidia-304 20:52:09 <MrsB> does it fix kwrite, kdenlive etc for you too? 20:52:17 <wrw105> That it does. 20:52:19 <MrsB> \o/ 20:52:40 <MrsB> Are there any other updates which look scary? 20:52:56 <MrsB> (they're not scary btw even if they look it) 20:53:01 <wrw105> I had to go back and play with kdewrite--I've started using kate for most of my text editing in kde. 20:53:13 <MrsB> kate was affected too i think 20:53:36 <RemyServices> fyi, I need to step out for a few, be back 20:53:44 <MrsB> see you in a bit RemyServices 20:53:45 <wilcal> see ya soon 20:53:47 <wrw105> Shows how much day-to-day text editing I have to do then! 20:54:16 <MrsB> So any other's or shall we see what Luigi12 has in store for us :) 20:54:36 <MrsB> -' 20:54:36 <wilcal> Luigi is deeply involved in all this 20:56:02 <Stormi> (digikam was affected too) 20:56:06 <MrsB> Well, try not to be scared by any of them. They're only packages. Nobody knows about all of them and they're new to everybody at least once. 20:57:03 <MrsB> remeber about the Bugzilla link on the madb page, that's the best thing to find testing procedures 20:57:25 <MrsB> and remember too to ask if there is anything you're strugglign with :) 20:57:29 <lewyssmith> We might think of formalising this aspect. 20:57:33 <MrsB> excluding spelling 20:57:47 <Stormi> maybe I should remove the wiki link, I don't think we're going to use the wiki for procedures actually 20:57:58 <MrsB> we can do it again yes, has it been helpful? 20:58:16 <MrsB> Stormi: kernewes may add some for us :) 20:59:09 <MrsB> when we get on top of things again we can review our documentation and see where it falls short 20:59:38 <MrsB> IS there anything else before we move on? 20:59:58 <wilcal> Lets move on 21:00:08 <lewyssmith> Seconded. 21:00:11 <MrsB> you do it then wilcal :P 21:00:26 <wrw105> I've got to run...strange not being square for a change! 21:00:37 <MrsB> Thanks for being here wrw105! 21:01:03 <wrw105> The day job was open what with all the snow.. :-) 21:01:04 <lewyssmith> How many people today know what 'square' means? 21:01:12 <MrsB> old people 21:01:21 <RemyServices> lol 21:01:28 <lewyssmith> Count me out. 21:01:32 <MrsB> ppffff 21:01:41 <RemyServices> does that make me old? It came too early 21:01:57 <MrsB> wilcal, you know how to do it? 21:02:17 <Kernewes> MrsB: give him a chance, he's not going to be as fast as Dave yet :) 21:02:32 <lewyssmith> He did once OK. 21:02:42 <wilcal> I'm think'n 21:02:45 <MrsB> :D 21:02:53 <MrsB> use #topic 21:03:04 <wilcal> Sorry confused here 21:03:20 <MrsB> i'll do it then, you can do the next one 21:03:24 <wilcal> new topic thanks 21:03:31 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's Roundup 21:03:40 <wilcal> Oh ya now I know 21:03:51 <MrsB> Luigi12_work_: ping! 21:03:57 <Luigi12> he's not there 21:04:00 <MrsB> ohh 21:04:08 <MrsB> how come? 21:04:11 <lewyssmith> He has already spoken. 21:04:13 <Luigi12> snow and ice 21:04:29 <wilcal> East Coast is Snowed out 21:04:31 <Luigi12> I marked him as away when I left yesterday, guess it doesn't hold sometimes if you get disconnected :o( 21:04:33 <MrsB> free holiday \o/ 21:04:42 <Luigi12> free as in I don't get paid :o) 21:04:43 <wilcal> Time to crash a lot of cars 21:05:15 <MrsB> Over to you then David 21:05:17 <Luigi12> ok 21:05:39 <Luigi12> so QA as usual has been doing a great job of keeping the really important updates cleared 21:05:53 <Luigi12> not marked as such yet, but probably the most important one now is mariadb 21:06:15 <MrsB> #info mariadb is next after pkcs11 21:06:20 <Luigi12> it's a shame that tomcat6 is such a pain, but without help from the maintainer or someone who understand the packaging for it, can't do much with it 21:06:28 <wilcal> You hear of a "CRITICAL" Flash compromise identified in the last days? It effects all platforms. 21:06:40 <Luigi12> wilcal: the sun also came up yesterday 21:06:44 <MrsB> I'll have a look at that one Luigi12 21:06:46 <wilcal> LOL 21:07:30 <Luigi12> I don't have any other current updates to highlight. As far as what's coming soon, we should have an ImageMagick update soon as some confusion with the CVE assignments gets sorted out. 21:07:32 <MrsB> #info help needed with tomcat6 21:07:43 <Luigi12> other than that, there are handful waiting on action from their maintainers 21:07:53 <Luigi12> including virtualbox on mga3 (hint tmb :o) 21:08:10 <MrsB> #info imagemagick coming soon and maybe virtualbox 21:08:27 <lewyssmith> Maintainers are all busy testing updates, perhaps. 21:08:29 <tmb> I guess I could try to figure out the tomcat6 one as I have played some with it 21:08:46 <MrsB> we're in alot better place than we were at the beginning of the week but still a long way to go 21:08:57 <Luigi12> thanks, that'd be great. It's heavily exploited in the wild according to one of my coworkers who knows about such things 21:09:02 <MrsB> that would be good tmb please, it's long overdue now 21:09:59 <wilcal> Sorry to burst in with this, the was published 12-hours ago: 21:10:00 <wilcal> Adobe Systems Inc. is urging users of its Flash Player software to upgrade to a newer 21:10:02 <wilcal> version released today. The company warns that an exploit targeting a previously unknown and 21:10:03 <wilcal> critical Flash security vulnerability exists in the wild, and that this flaw allows attackers 21:10:05 <wilcal> to take complete control over affected systems. 21:10:28 <Luigi12> for mediawiki, there are some issues that might not be apparent...adding the requested README.urpmi would just be putting lipstick on a pig and I don't want to do that. It should be simpler and automatable, but some broken, undocumented cruft added by the previous maintainer is preventing that. 21:10:46 <MrsB> No update for linux yet wilcal 21:10:54 <MrsB> http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/ 21:10:55 <[mbot> [ Adobe - Flash Player ] 21:10:56 <Luigi12> so we can either push them (as they work fine) or I'll need help either fixing or documenting the cruft in the package, or I'll just rip it all out 21:11:10 <wilcal> Updated Flash for Linux is 11.2.202.336 21:11:21 <Luigi12> wilcal: ping Anssi about it in #mageia-dev 21:11:52 <MrsB> We can't knowingly push an update which will break people's installations though, so I think it's worth doing right 21:12:08 <MrsB> #info help needed for mediawiki packaging 21:12:11 <Luigi12> it doesn't break anything, you just have to run one command 21:12:16 <Luigi12> which is documented in the advisory 21:12:18 <MrsB> yes, but only when you know about it 21:12:32 <MrsB> advisories aren't shown when updates are installed 21:12:49 <MrsB> that's why the request for a readme.update.urpmi 21:12:50 <Luigi12> I'll mail on -dev about it then 21:12:53 <MrsB> k 21:13:11 <Luigi12> any questions for me on anything else? 21:13:17 <lewyssmith> but only when you know about it: so often is it thus. 21:13:28 <MrsB> None here, thanks Luigi12 21:13:33 <Luigi12> well it's documented upstream too 21:13:45 <Luigi12> but it's stupid too, Moodle does it automatically for you, why can't MediaWiki? 21:13:52 <MrsB> yeah 21:14:06 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: tell me about it, the problems I thought I was having with Mga3 turned out months later to be due to a bug in the Errata which I didn't know would affect me 21:14:13 <MrsB> simple answer is really the readme.update.urpmi if you don't get any help with it though 21:14:25 <Luigi12> like I said, there's some reasons that doesn't make sense 21:14:37 <MrsB> share them 21:14:48 <Luigi12> so if I get no help, I'll rip Oliver's cruft out of it, and get it to run the command for you automatically 21:14:58 <Luigi12> has to do with the "instances" feature that he added 21:14:59 <MrsB> lol ok that would be better :) 21:15:24 <MrsB> i thought kharec had done some work on that 21:15:37 <Luigi12> he updated the package once, but didn't mess with the "instances" stuff 21:15:56 <MrsB> i thought he'd removed it. 21:15:58 <Luigi12> the idea apparently is to allow the package to serve more than one wiki, but it's broken and undocumented 21:16:03 <Luigi12> MrsB: I wish :o( 21:16:04 <MrsB> yeah 21:16:18 <Luigi12> yeah I'd like to get rid of it honestly 21:16:28 <Luigi12> only worry is if anyone actually knows how it works and is actively using it 21:16:39 <MrsB> yep, it's a bad time to do it really 21:16:53 <Luigi12> yeah, it sucks that we couldn't get 1.22 packaged before mga4 came out 21:17:01 <Luigi12> my fault, I had forgotten about it 21:17:21 <MrsB> mail -dev then and see what help you get, that's going to decide what can and can't be done 21:17:29 <Luigi12> ok 21:17:38 <Luigi12> guess that's it then :o) next topic 21:17:43 <MrsB> thanks Luigi12 21:17:49 <MrsB> wilcal, over to you! 21:18:31 <wilcal> #topic Anything Else? 21:18:39 <MrsB> well done, thanks :) 21:18:46 <MrsB> Is there anything else? 21:18:51 <wilcal> One from me 21:18:52 <tmb> yes 21:19:02 <MrsB> lots then, wilcal was first.. 21:19:08 <wilcal> The videos I shot at FOSDEM are up on YouTube 21:19:09 <wilcal> Mageia at FOSDEM 2014: http://youtu.be/AeQH_eMGjm4 21:19:10 <[mbot> [ Mageia at FOSDEM 2014 - YouTube ] 21:19:11 <wilcal> FOSDEM Beerfest: http://youtu.be/L6MoZ95wfR0 21:19:12 <[mbot> [ Beerfest at FOSDEM 2014 - YouTube ] 21:19:12 <wilcal> Enjoy 21:19:14 <MrsB> oh cool 21:19:16 <MrsB> thanks! 21:19:20 <Kernewes> great 21:19:29 <lewyssmith> Bill, could you do a mailgroup msg summarising your time at Fosdem? 21:19:38 <MrsB> #info the videos wilcal shot at FOSDEM are up on youtube 21:19:50 <wilcal> Not quite sure how to do that lew 21:19:53 <MrsB> http://youtu.be/AeQH_eMGjm4 Mageia at FOSDEM 21:19:54 <[mbot> [ Mageia at FOSDEM 2014 - YouTube ] 21:20:04 <MrsB> http://youtu.be/L6MoZ95wfR0 FOSDEM Beearfest 21:20:05 <[mbot> [ Beerfest at FOSDEM 2014 - YouTube ] 21:20:07 <MrsB> oops 21:20:14 <lewyssmith> Just send a msg to the group, like any other. 21:20:18 <wilcal> OK 21:20:19 <MrsB> #info beerfest, no bears 21:20:24 <lewyssmith> TIA 21:20:47 <Luigi12> wilcal: Anssi checked and doesn't see a Flash update available 21:20:48 <wilcal> FWIW the Ustream live video went way better then I thought it would 21:21:14 <wilcal> I think the that the fix is the last update we did in flash 21:21:17 <MrsB> didn't know you were doing that 21:21:27 <wilcal> which was just a few days ago 21:22:08 <wilcal> We may have it covered 21:22:24 <MrsB> OK, so anything else else? 21:22:28 <MrsB> tmb.. 21:22:31 <wilcal> I'm done 21:22:44 <tmb> yes, a paiful thing to report :/ 21:22:51 <MrsB> :\ 21:22:55 <tmb> painful... 21:23:33 <Stormi> new ISOs for the AHCI issue? 21:23:41 <Luigi12> ahh yes 21:23:49 <tmb> We will have to do a re-release of Mageia 4 isos due to syslinux bug: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12549 21:23:51 <tmb> yep 21:23:52 <[mbot> Bug 12549: critical, Normal, thierry.vignaud, NEW , Can not install Mageia from DVD, but good from USB flash 21:23:54 <MrsB> i noticed you building drakx and syslinux stuff 21:23:55 * Stormi wins 21:24:06 <MrsB> O. M. G. 21:24:09 * Luigi12 is just glad tmb is OK 21:24:14 <RemyServices> I have an issue for after the meeting, unsure if it is a bug or my setup, but I have a question for those smarter then me :) 21:24:29 <wilcal> I was expecting re-issue of the M4 ISO's 21:24:48 <MrsB> Well perhaps we can include the pkcs11 fix too then 21:25:05 <Stormi> the more fixes we include, the more risks of regression 21:25:11 <MrsB> #info Bombshell: <tmb> We will have to do a re-release of Mageia 4 isos due to syslinux bug: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12549 21:25:12 <RemyServices> and mediawiki possibly? 21:25:15 <[mbot> Bug 12549: critical, Normal, thierry.vignaud, NEW , Can not install Mageia from DVD, but good from USB flash 21:25:48 <MrsB> at least testing now should be quick and relatively easy 21:25:53 <tmb> So I talked to Anne briefly, and we'll wait out atleat the pkcs11 21:25:58 <MrsB> We can't do this until we're on top of updates though tmb 21:26:03 <wilcal> I've been using the Live-DVD's 21:26:24 <Stormi> (although I would not be against having apper disabled, so that people installing don't get that buggy notification of update until they actually manage to update) 21:26:31 <tmb> MrsB, yoah, we thought of starting to build them next week 21:26:48 <MrsB> let's see how we get on with reducing the list 21:27:22 <Stormi> list, we will kill you. Nothing personal, it's you or us. 21:27:32 <tmb> and we were discussing about maybe pulling in all validated updates too 21:27:32 <Luigi12> indeed 21:27:38 <Luigi12> that'd be nice 21:27:44 <MrsB> yes that's worth doing 21:27:54 <MrsB> a job worth doing, is worth doing well :) 21:28:09 <tmb> that would get all nice translations, less drakx crashes and so on 21:28:15 <Kernewes> a bit of practice for when we do later ISOs as we were discussing before 21:28:38 <MrsB> yes. While it's still fresh in everybodies mind how to do it 21:28:50 <tmb> and for you MrsB the bug 6077 is squashed :) 21:28:53 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6077 critical, High, tmb, RESOLVED FIXED, Some Centrino laptops forced to use vesa driver & No ACPI, kernel 21:29:14 <MrsB> yes, thanks for that. My laptop is on it's last legs now though :D 21:29:41 <tmb> noooo.... ou have to keep it going now when the bug is fixed :) 21:29:51 <MrsB> i know. I'd feel a bit guilty 21:30:13 <MrsB> the power connection is failing 21:30:25 <MrsB> i can sympathise with it 21:30:43 <tmb> but seriosly, that fix made some othert systems boot properly too, so all good :) 21:31:06 <MrsB> any ideas what is causing tonyb's problems? 21:31:29 <Stormi> he got a cursed intel driver, I'd say 21:31:48 <MrsB> strange it's failing on several different systems 21:31:56 <lewyssmith> tmb: I can kill 2 bugs because the machine showing them is henceforth out of service. 21:32:07 <tmb> nope, not yet.... the problem is that the intel x driver has still not gotten to final release stage 21:32:44 <MrsB> so waiting on upstream 21:32:46 <tmb> so he might just be an unlucky one for now 21:32:49 <wilcal> FWIW I've fixed a LOT of old laptops with Puppy Linux and the users are very happy 21:33:06 <Luigi12> I thought Puppy was a rescue distro 21:33:19 <MrsB> Are there any workaround he could try which haven't been mentioned? 21:33:24 <wilcal> It is, it rescues old laptops in the closet 21:33:29 <Luigi12> oh lol 21:33:56 <tmb> MrsB, I'll re-read the messages and see if I can suggest something 21:34:10 <MrsB> thanks tmb, he's a qa team member 21:34:31 <MrsB> so... 21:34:36 <Stormi> o/ 21:34:38 <MrsB> Is there anything else else else? 21:34:43 <MrsB> stormi.. 21:34:44 <tmb> as for iso testing I was thinking of putting them on public mirrors too, so the affected ones can help test 21:34:45 <wilcal> Not from me 21:34:47 <Stormi> I'll keep it quick 21:34:57 <diogenese> :) 21:35:00 <MrsB> sure, why not tmb, we can rsync from there just as easily 21:35:34 <tmb> since I doo hope we need only one build :) 21:35:58 * MrsB not going to tempt fate 21:36:08 <wilcal> we're outta here 21:36:13 <MrsB> no wait 21:36:18 <MrsB> Stormi: your go 21:36:24 <Stormi> our policy currently forbids packagers to test their own updates. It makes sense in theory because you can't judge your own work. However, one of our problems is to understand how the package works and packagers often know it better. 21:36:49 <Luigi12> yeah, relaxing that rule might actually help encourage packagers to post testing procedures 21:36:52 <Stormi> So when the packager tests one arch + tells the procedure used for it, I would favor counting it as valid 21:37:19 <Stormi> "I tested it quickly" doesn't count. "I tested it on mga4 32 bits, here is how..." counts 21:37:20 <wilcal> Procedure MUST be simple, and repeatable, to follow 21:37:25 <lewyssmith> If one cannot judge one's own work, one can certainly *test* it. 21:37:29 <MrsB> I can see positives and negative to his idea 21:37:39 <MrsB> this* 21:37:48 <Stormi> of course the packager couldn't test both archs 21:37:58 <MrsB> positives, it would actually happen 21:38:36 <Stormi> I don't think we're talking about a lot of occurences actually. 21:38:52 <lewyssmith> I think it is sensible & natural to do. 21:38:59 <Luigi12> so I guess someone else would still have to add the OK tag once it's determined to be valid 21:39:58 <MrsB> negative, we've heard numerous times 'it works for me' and then found issues, which could then create conflict. 21:40:21 <Stormi> MrsB: I would agree with the negative part if we did comprehensive tests 21:40:23 <Luigi12> that's true, and QA is great at sussing out other issues people don't always find themselves 21:40:27 <Luigi12> checks and balances are good 21:40:52 <lewyssmith> Even if it got a 2nd test, it would have a better chance of succeeding. 21:41:01 <MrsB> IMHO i think it's best to keep the roles separate but i can see the positives in it too 21:41:09 <Stormi> It's true that having to discover the hard way how to use packages helps to find issues 21:41:15 <Stormi> but then we shouldn't ask for procedures :) 21:41:40 <Stormi> when we have procedures we follow that path and maybe find less issues 21:41:40 <Kernewes> perhaps if the packager does a test first, it might help prevent some of the issues QA find with updates 21:41:42 <Luigi12> maybe encourage packagers to test their stuff and post procedures, but say the QA team still has final discretion about when it's OK to validate things 21:41:49 <Kernewes> we can still test it as well 21:41:58 <Luigi12> Kernewes: in some cases yes, you're absolutely right 21:42:04 <MrsB> IIRC we talked about this a long long time ago and I was out voted, we can have a vote again now if you liike? 21:42:08 <tmb> I guess the best thing to do here is to try and see how it works out, and discuss the outcome in a few weeks / months / something... 21:42:11 <lewyssmith> Kernewes: What I tried to say above. 21:42:25 <Stormi> if it doesn't speed up the process, why would packagers test more tomorrow than today? :) 21:42:26 <Luigi12> MrsB: maybe best to hold votes on the mailing list so all interested parties can participate 21:42:50 <MrsB> well votes would be from qa team 21:42:51 <Kernewes> Stormi: it would save QA some wasted time 21:43:00 <lewyssmith> Seconded. 21:43:01 <Luigi12> yeah, they're just not all here now :o) 21:43:01 <Stormi> we already invite them at testing and providing procedures 21:43:11 <Stormi> sometimes we get some, sometimes we don't get any 21:43:24 <Luigi12> Stormi: sort of, but with the restriction in place which discourages it 21:43:28 <MrsB> Ok So lets have a vote on the ML. Can we get a quick idea here now though please? 21:43:33 <Stormi> Luigi12: indeed 21:43:43 <MrsB> Who would like to see this trialed? 21:43:44 <Luigi12> dunno if it'd help, but if they know their testing might help speed up the process, it might help encourage it 21:44:00 <Kernewes> can't do any harm to try 21:44:01 <Luigi12> I'd like to see it trialed. I'm OK with either resolution, it's just an interesting idea. 21:44:08 <lewyssmith> It should speed things up. 21:44:16 <Luigi12> I don't want broken updates anymore than anyone else :o) 21:44:36 <Stormi> I'm for raising the restriction 21:44:47 <MrsB> Anybody think it's not a good idea? 21:44:48 <Stormi> for one arch only 21:45:00 <Stormi> and provided they tell what they have tested 21:45:07 <wilcal> Gotta have those proceedures in there 21:45:14 <wilcal> simple ones 21:45:15 <MrsB> yes, it would need boundaries like that Stormi 21:45:19 <Kernewes> we might decide it's a bad idea but at least we'll have tried it 21:45:26 <Luigi12> Stormi: well you might as well let them both arches if they want to, but someone else should have to also test for it to be validated anyway 21:45:30 <tmb> Stormi, well, better if they test both arches, but they can only validate one :) 21:45:45 <Stormi> tmb: Luigi12: yes, that's idea, better phrased 21:45:47 <MrsB> well we do have procedures for most things. There isn't much we haven't updated at least once. Pacemaker is one of those though :\ 21:45:51 <Luigi12> yeah, QA still holds discretion on when it's enough testing for validation 21:46:25 <Stormi> I would say the following: 21:46:37 <Stormi> packagers are encouraged to test and give testing steps 21:46:46 <Stormi> QA decides then if it's sufficient or not 21:47:01 <Luigi12> and QA adds the OK and validation tags 21:47:04 <Stormi> yes 21:47:23 <Stormi> sometimes it will be ok, sometimes we will still want to test 21:47:39 <MrsB> If they provide steps to show what they've done to test it would give some assurance that they had actually tested 21:47:46 <lewyssmith> I think QA should always test anyway. 21:47:49 <MrsB> that's would have to be a stipulation 21:48:09 <Kernewes> QA should test at least one arch 21:48:32 <Stormi> sometimes packager will fix bugs and test only that the bug is fixed. Then it's not sufficient because it lacks the basic regression testing 21:48:51 <Stormi> a QA team member judges from what's written by the packager 21:49:04 <Kernewes> although when QA is overstretched, we can't do any more than that ourselves 21:49:16 <Stormi> and of course "I tested in cauldron" doesn't work :) 21:49:41 <lewyssmith> Don't we all basically check (if we can) that a bug is fixed? 21:49:52 <Stormi> that + basic regression testing 21:50:07 <Stormi> you can break the whole package and still fix the bug 21:50:08 <MrsB> Not only that. take for example a couple of instances i can think of off the top of my head. Packager tested the update and it worked fine for them but on a system where the package was installed new it failed 21:50:33 <MrsB> Ok. So lets' trial this with restrictions. 21:50:36 <Kernewes> perhaps they could test it in a VM 21:50:54 <MrsB> Packager can test one arch and must give the procedure used to test with 21:51:03 <MrsB> tested ok, isn't enough 21:51:03 <Stormi> MrsB: that happens with QA team members too, one arch is marked OK, then the second tester finds an issue 21:51:03 <lewyssmith> Hence the need to do it twice; but quicker the 2nd time. 21:51:27 <Stormi> A last argument in favor of my proposal: when packagers find bugs while testing... They fix their package directly 21:51:38 <Stormi> no "feedback" sitting for days 21:51:46 <MrsB> Stormi: I'm agreeing with you, lets just set some rules 21:51:57 <lewyssmith> The idea should improve the quality of update candidates. 21:52:53 <MrsB> #info we agree to atrial of allowing packagers to test one arch of their updates only providing they give the procedure used to perform the test 21:53:15 <wilcal> Sounds good to me 21:53:31 <Stormi> yes, that would be a good atrial (whatever that means) :P 21:53:31 <MrsB> #info QA must test at last one arch and will have final say on when the package is properly tested 21:53:44 <Kernewes> fine 21:54:05 <lewyssmith> I still think both arch's. 21:54:22 <MrsB> we may aswell not be here then 21:54:54 <lewyssmith> Not what I was saying: QA to do both arch's. 21:55:05 <lewyssmith> Sorry. 21:55:09 <MrsB> ohh, yes well we can do 21:55:49 <MrsB> #info nothing stops QA still from testing both arches, just packager is free to test one as long as they give the procedure they used to do the testing. 21:55:54 <lewyssmith> But each party doing just 1 arc. would be slick! 21:56:01 <lewyssmith> arch. 21:56:11 <Luigi12> who's gonna test ARM? 21:56:13 * Luigi12 hides 21:56:15 <MrsB> So how long shall we trial this for? 21:56:25 <MrsB> is this ok stormi? 21:56:26 <Kernewes> Luigi12: I've got a Raspberry Pi 21:56:30 <Stormi> yes 21:56:42 <wilcal> I use a Pi for my back up server 21:56:51 <Luigi12> nice 21:56:53 <RemyServices> I'll have a BeagleBone in two months to test with if needed 21:56:56 <lewyssmith> Kernewes: So you are down for ARM! 21:57:25 * tmb have one rpi and one wandboard 21:57:39 <lewyssmith> To answer the question: 3 months? 21:57:52 <MrsB> #info Let's allow a month or so to trial this, not forgetting we'll be doing ISOs again soon. If any conflicts or conflicts of interest arise we will review it sooner 21:58:32 <Kernewes> Luigi12: is ARM nearly ready? 21:59:01 <Luigi12> Kernewes: not sure, but it'll be discussed again in the next packager meeting I think 21:59:08 <MrsB> Is everybody OK with what's been said? 21:59:12 <tmb> I'm waiting on a status update from rtp 21:59:13 <Kernewes> MrsB: yes 21:59:24 <lewyssmith> Yes. 21:59:37 * MrsB outvoted again, drat! 22:00:04 <MrsB> Soo.. is there anything else else else else? 22:00:09 <Stormi> yes 22:00:11 <Kernewes> no no no no 22:00:14 <lewyssmith> Goodnight. 22:00:16 <Stormi> "let's end that meeting" 22:00:18 <Luigi12> more snow 22:00:28 <Kernewes> more rain and wind 22:00:38 <tmb> nothing else but big thanks for all your great work 22:00:39 <wilcal> I'm done 22:00:46 <MrsB> Well thankyou all for coming and not being square (that's boring for the young'uns) 22:00:47 <Luigi12> yep thanks 22:00:53 <MrsB> t-5 22:00:55 <Kernewes> MrsB: thank you 22:00:55 <MrsB> 4 22:00:57 <MrsB> 3 22:00:58 <MrsB> 2 22:01:00 <MrsB> 1 22:01:02 <MrsB> #endmeeting