20:06:05 <MrsB> #startmeeting
20:06:05 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Jan 30 20:06:05 2014 UTC.  The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:06:05 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:06:20 <MrsB> we had a bit of snow earlie, lasted all of 5 mins
20:06:41 <MrsB> Hi everybody welcome to a rather tired and worn out meeting
20:06:56 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins
20:06:56 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB
20:06:58 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? If you've just joined us come and say Hi
20:07:02 <MrsB> :) wb
20:07:14 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks.
20:07:15 <MrsB> Is there anybody new here today?
20:07:51 <MrsB> think i probably sent the meeting email too late
20:08:16 <MrsB> Ok maybe next time !
20:08:16 <lewyssmith> 10 lines.
20:08:24 * Kernewes raps MrsB's knuckles
20:08:24 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Mageia 4
20:08:39 <lewyssmith> Aaaah.
20:08:39 <MrsB> So this is the big one
20:09:01 <ennael> hi there
20:09:02 <MrsB> Has anybody found anything and not yet mentioned it anywhere?
20:09:06 <DavidWHodgins> I've only been able to sync the x86_64 iso, and then saw ennael msg about new iso images coming.
20:09:10 <MrsB> morning ennael
20:09:22 <MrsB> you rnet still up and down dave?
20:09:22 * ennael is fixing her mess
20:09:28 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
20:09:41 <DavidWHodgins> And slow while it is up, most of the time.
20:09:41 * Kernewes mess is beyond fixing
20:09:45 <MrsB> it's a good job Luc noticed
20:10:01 <DavidWHodgins> Also the size problem, as per bug 11446
20:10:03 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11446 enhancement, Normal, ennael1, REOPENED , consider making the size of the clasic istallation iso's smaller
20:10:15 <MrsB> It was adding mga4 medias though, even as it was
20:10:31 <lewyssmith> But please keep LXDE.
20:10:44 <Kernewes> but I wanted task-mate not task-mate-minimal
20:10:55 * simonnzg|2 is late. As usual.
20:11:09 <MrsB> Stormi is here too \o/
20:11:12 <DavidWHodgins> Just needs to be reduced by a little over 5MB
20:11:32 <DavidWHodgins> Hi simonnzg|2
20:11:34 <Stormi> o/
20:11:39 <lewyssmith> Is OpenBox desktop necessary?
20:11:39 <rindolf> I haven't done any testing of the latest Mageia 4 ISOs - if anyone can tell me what I can test on VBox, that will be nice.
20:11:53 <Stormi> neoclust: let's continue on #mageia-dev regarding apper maybe
20:12:00 <MrsB> On time i'd say simonnzg|2
20:12:14 <neoclust> Stormi: ok :)
20:12:34 <simonnzg|2> GE all.
20:12:39 <MrsB> rindolf: test upgrades from mga3 please
20:12:41 <Kernewes> simonnzg|2: hiya
20:12:56 <rindolf> MrsB: OK, using which ISOs?
20:13:01 <MrsB> the classic dvd's
20:13:11 <rindolf> MrsB: OK, I will start a sync.
20:13:15 <MrsB> thanks
20:13:46 <Kernewes> simonnzg: you've shrunk
20:13:50 <MrsB> So  what's left to do?
20:13:50 <RemyServices> i have some 32bit upgrades i can test, will try to do that tonight
20:14:10 <neoclust> MrsB: i tried to update from mga3 to mga4 for my work machine, except vim ( fixed ) all went well
20:14:12 <MrsB> Yes please do RemyServices, make sure you have the latest isos. They will be rebuilt tonight i think
20:14:23 <simonnzg> Kernewes: Trying to hide.
20:14:31 <RemyServices> ok, i will wait for the updates
20:14:41 <Kernewes> simonnzg: it's OK, Marja isn't here
20:14:42 <MrsB> thanks neoclust thats good, if you can find some time can you try again with different packages
20:14:58 <lewyssmith> My only 32-bit upgrade went well.
20:15:05 <MrsB> vbox is fine for testing that, it makes it easy too
20:15:33 <lewyssmith> But the hard disc holding the base M3 died during, so I cannot do any more.
20:15:40 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. Install Mageia 3, test the upgrade, and then you can roll back the snapshot, to test with other iso images.
20:15:58 <MrsB> #info tomorrow will be the final push. Please put as much time into it as you can. We have to test all ISOs and each DE installed from the classics
20:16:03 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: :(
20:16:21 <MrsB> oh now lewis :(
20:16:24 <MrsB> no*
20:16:30 <dvg_l> sorry other duties tomorrow
20:16:34 <MrsB> everybody is losing hardware this time :\
20:17:00 <lewyssmith> I think M4 did for mine.
20:17:07 * Kernewes can't promise tomorrow either
20:17:25 <MrsB> I'll dust off my laptop for irc etc and get to desktops testing tomorrow
20:17:29 <DavidWHodgins> If my network stays up, I should be able to test.
20:18:05 <lewyssmith> I cannot any more do EFI installs. Can anyone tell me if the procedure has changed?
20:18:29 <MrsB> tmb: any advice on efi please? ^^
20:18:29 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Around?
20:18:34 <RemyServices> has the slow booting liveCD/DVD been addressed by chance?
20:19:04 <MrsB> mine is slow booting due to a didgy bios upgrade, using usb 1
20:19:08 <MrsB> dodgy
20:19:46 <MrsB> it does seem a bit quicker with the last set though
20:20:06 <RemyServices> ok, i will retest that too
20:20:12 <Kernewes> it didn't seem particularly slow to me
20:20:13 <dvg_l> i never had slowdown
20:20:23 <MrsB> #info we can't release until everything has been tested
20:20:26 <Kernewes> the shutdown is definitely better
20:21:38 <lewyssmith> Is the Classic window overlay going to be sorted?
20:22:15 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Is it a release blocker?
20:22:30 <MrsB> I don't think so for mga4, i think it's a GTK3 problem anyway
20:22:39 <lewyssmith> Just aesthetic. It looks poor, but does not stop the install.
20:22:44 <Stormi> I hope I can help tomorrow but I'm actually expected to work... at work :/
20:23:00 <Kernewes> Stormi: :(
20:23:22 <RemyServices> rough eta on new builds?
20:23:32 <MrsB> before bedtime
20:24:19 <Kernewes> MrsB: I suppose you're going to say you go to bed at 6 a.m.
20:24:52 <MrsB> previously I have done on release day
20:24:58 <MrsB> mga2 and mga3
20:25:10 <lewyssmith> Make it 3.
20:25:13 <MrsB> hopefully we can get it all done tomorrow though
20:25:35 <MrsB> we all have to do our bit though
20:26:08 <MrsB> So is there anything else to add here or are we just waiting for the fixed ISOs now?
20:26:29 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Any info on efi?
20:27:02 <lewyssmith> He enhanced things, but I do not know how to make it work now.
20:27:03 <tmb> efi boots properly from isos,
20:27:18 <MrsB> Can you outline the procedure tmb please
20:27:19 <tmb> as in real cd/dvd medias
20:27:25 <DavidWHodgins> Same instructions as before?
20:27:40 <DavidWHodgins> Not from usb any more?
20:27:45 <lewyssmith> Directly? Do you just use a straight ISO DVD?
20:28:19 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins, I have message-listed this.
20:28:21 <tmb> if you want to boot from usb stick, you need a fat32 formatted stick and copy the contents of the iso there
20:28:44 <DavidWHodgins> So same as the prior instructions for the live iso images.
20:28:49 <tmb> live medias need s/Mageia-4-GNOME-LiveDVD/MGALIVE UEFI/ if booted from usb stick
20:28:51 <lewyssmith> I always did that. Can you look at the PAD for Gnome Live?
20:29:18 <tmb> you can edit boot selections with "e"
20:29:30 <RemyServices> you can also use grub4dos and use a new partition method to boot iso's, we can review that later though, been working for me
20:29:37 <DavidWHodgins> What label on the iso image now?
20:29:45 <lewyssmith> You have simplified the boot menu.
20:30:02 <tmb> but if I must respin isos, maybe I should add the "(usb boot)" back to make it simple
20:30:11 <MrsB> #info efi boots properly from the isos, if using usb you need a fat32 formatted stick and copy the contents of the iso there. live medias need s/Mageia-4-GNOME-LiveDVD/MGALIVE UEFI/ if booted from usb stick, you can edit boot selections with "e"
20:30:37 <lewyssmith> I will try the straight ISOs, simpler anyway.
20:30:53 <MrsB> tmb if using an actual dvd what then?
20:30:54 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, you need to label the usb according to what you pass on command string
20:31:31 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, so if you label it MGA4 then: s/Mageia-4-GNOME-LiveDVD/MGA4 UEFI/
20:31:59 <tmb> real dvds will boot up as without interaction
20:32:07 <lewyssmith> Fine.
20:32:10 <MrsB> #info you need to label the usb according to what you pass on command string, so if you label it MGA4 then: s/Mageia-4-GNOME-LiveDVD/MGA4 UEFI/
20:32:25 <MrsB> so just able to burn them as a normal image?
20:32:27 <lewyssmith> Where is this substitution?
20:33:01 <MrsB> #info if using an actual dvd they will boot up without any interaction
20:33:12 <lewyssmith> Fingers crossed.
20:33:25 <MrsB> I can't help testing any of that
20:33:26 <tmb> Note, the installer X server will crash on boot, and get restarted in ~15-60 seconds as it has trouble with uefi -> framebuffer handover... so UEFI for mga4 is *experimental*
20:33:40 <MrsB> #info Note, the installer X server will crash on boot, and get restarted in ~15-60 seconds as it has trouble with uefi -> framebuffer handover... so UEFI for mga4 is *experimental*
20:33:49 <lewyssmith> It has worked fine since Beta.
20:34:05 <MrsB> dvg noticed a crash on boot i think
20:34:20 <lewyssmith> For the Live DVDs.
20:34:35 <tmb> lewyssmith, that is with the live isos yes, but stage2 installer runs in framebuffer mode, and that still has some issues
20:34:56 <Stormi> note that in UEFI sometimes vesa doesn't work
20:34:59 <MrsB> #info the crash should only be with classic isos
20:35:13 <Stormi> (for live)
20:35:16 <tmb> because uefi does not support VESA
20:35:16 <MrsB> you get half a screen Stormi?
20:35:32 <Stormi> MrsB: less than that, no screen at all
20:35:37 <MrsB> oh
20:35:47 <tmb> and as usual some dual gpu systems has issues
20:35:56 <lewyssmith> I can only do EFI Live DVDs now; no time for the Classic.
20:36:02 <MrsB> #info some dual gpu systems may still have issues
20:36:20 <Stormi> yes, I couldn't boot the live in UEFI because of X issues (feedback in pad), legacy mode allowed to use vesa
20:36:31 <MrsB> we'll have to try and put together some kernel commadn line workarounds
20:36:52 <tmb> but other than that I have re-installed all my uefi systems here with boot.iso, x86_64 DVD and a x86_64 liveDVD
20:36:57 <Stormi> we tried with tmb with no luck for my system
20:37:12 <Stormi> (kernel options)
20:37:36 <MrsB> dvg_l: you were using some weren't you?
20:37:44 <MrsB> lewis did you use some before?
20:37:53 <lewyssmith> Some what?
20:37:54 <tmb> the fun thing is that with dual gpu systems, most installs would work better if we would not have any nonfree drivers :)
20:38:03 <MrsB> kernel command line options
20:38:10 <lewyssmith> No.
20:38:15 <dvg_l> some what?
20:38:17 <MrsB> kernel command line options
20:38:28 <MrsB> for dual gpu
20:38:42 <dvg_l> oh sure. those worked occasionally
20:38:49 <Stormi> tmb: not here because it looks like it's the intel driver that crashes, but my computer is not all dual-gpu computers :)
20:38:54 <MrsB> what were you using dvg_l?
20:39:03 <dvg_l> but was only for workround nv pobs
20:39:10 <dvg_l> probs
20:39:33 <dvg_l> and worked only partly in older versions
20:39:43 <MrsB> ahh ok, maybe no longer relevant then
20:39:55 <dvg_l> like: rd.blacklist=nouveau xdriver=intel
20:40:00 <dvg_l> no
20:40:08 <Stormi> it could work in some configurations I guess
20:40:15 <dvg_l> yes
20:40:15 <Stormi> in fact could work in mine
20:40:20 <Stormi> the blacklist part
20:40:27 <Stormi> I'll try to try
20:40:30 <Stormi> :)
20:40:32 <MrsB> #info one to try : rd.blacklist=nouveau xdriver=intel
20:40:44 <Stormi> maybe blacklist nvidia too
20:40:51 <Stormi> since it's on the livedvd too
20:40:54 <Stormi> better let intel alone
20:40:57 <MrsB> give it a whirl after Stormi
20:41:14 <dvg_l> latest versions didnt need it, earlier ones did not accept it
20:42:06 <MrsB> Is there anything else Mageia 4 ?
20:42:47 <DavidWHodgins> #topic What are you going to do next week?
20:42:56 <MrsB> Ok so tomorrow is the big day :)
20:42:57 <tmb> whats the thught on live medias? should I respin one more ?
20:43:18 <MrsB> yes please tmb, it needs at least install putting back in gnome menu
20:43:34 <lewyssmith> Do we have tomorrow evening?
20:43:41 <MrsB> wasn't there somethign else too?
20:44:14 <MrsB> nope, that was the main thing i think
20:44:23 <MrsB> wifi is working well now
20:44:35 <RemyServices> for reference, what is "tonight", and "tomorrow". it is 1:45pm here, what is the timezone for the chat room?
20:44:48 <DavidWHodgins> RemyServices: utc
20:44:51 <MrsB> lewis it depends how long it takes us to test everything. I would think so though
20:45:05 <lewyssmith> OK. What is the deadline UTC?
20:45:24 <DavidWHodgins> When we are ready.
20:45:29 <RemyServices> DavidWHodgins: good deal, wanted to make sure that is how we were working it
20:45:32 <tmb> ok, I'll start re-spin now as I hav to catch a flight to brussels in ~6 hours
20:45:35 <MrsB> There isn't one really, we just can't release until everything is tested properly
20:45:58 <MrsB> Give them a quick test tmb before you go please
20:46:12 <lewyssmith> Please!
20:46:56 <MrsB> Sooo what are you all going to do next week?
20:47:05 <MrsB> I'm planning on staying in bed
20:47:06 <dvg_l> rest
20:47:22 <lewyssmith> You want us to say "Update testing".
20:47:29 <Kernewes> depends whether the day job kills me :(
20:47:38 <DavidWHodgins> 33 updates for Mageia 3 that need testing, though 6 of them are awaiting feedback.
20:47:47 <MrsB> If you want to lewis I don't think anybody will mind!
20:48:01 <lewyssmith> I did a couple, but many fox me.
20:48:11 <MrsB> We saved some for your return Dave
20:48:18 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:48:34 <MrsB> I knew you'd want something to do
20:48:35 <Stormi> 23 rather than 33
20:48:46 <Stormi> 33 would be if we hadn't validated some of them, maybe even 43 :)
20:48:47 <lewyssmith> Anyhow, I have lost my Mageia 3.
20:48:55 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Yes. Misread it.
20:49:02 <MrsB> we claered quite a few last week didn't we
20:49:21 <Stormi> we did
20:49:27 <MrsB> is that the one that died lewis?
20:49:39 * tmb has kept kernels "off list" to not overload QA but a week or so after mga4 release there will probably land a full set for mga3
20:49:45 <Stormi> we didn't want DavidWHodgins to think we needed him (but we actually do :))
20:49:51 <lewyssmith> MrsB, Yes; backup of same.
20:50:12 <MrsB> Well updates will start soon for mga4 too, there is usually a bit of a rush after release
20:50:12 <lewyssmith> I have 2 M4s.
20:50:27 <Stormi> we need to clear the list
20:50:37 <MrsB> yep
20:50:58 <DavidWHodgins> I'll do as much as I can, network permitting, over the weekend.
20:51:03 <MrsB> so enjoy a break, have a rest, but then come back and test updates :)
20:51:18 <rindolf> Sorry all, I'm going to sleep.
20:51:25 <Kernewes> so am I
20:51:27 <MrsB> Nite rindolf, thanks for coming
20:51:31 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins, Don't try too much.
20:51:33 <Kernewes> nite
20:51:34 <MrsB> nite Kernewes too
20:51:37 <rindolf> MrsB: you're welcome.
20:52:08 <MrsB> why does everybody run away when we talk about testing updates :D
20:52:14 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:52:27 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup
20:52:38 <MrsB> Thanks
20:52:43 <MrsB> Luigi12_work: ping?
20:52:50 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_lappy: ping
20:52:56 <MrsB> Luigi12: ping
20:53:10 * Stormi is Luigi12. So I haven't any sec update, thanks, bye. :)
20:53:20 <MrsB> \o/ score
20:53:25 <DavidWHodgins> lol
20:53:39 <MrsB> Stormi: you make an excellent Luigi12
20:54:26 <MrsB> I remember him saying he would be busy this week, so that might mean we have a rush of sec updates next week too
20:54:46 <DavidWHodgins> With cauldron now frozen, until after release, I expect any new ones will have to wait.
20:54:58 <MrsB> yes maybe so
20:55:15 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else?
20:55:16 <MrsB> anyway, lets finish off shall we
20:55:27 <MrsB> Is there anythign else?
20:55:28 <lewyssmith> Yes, for the future...
20:55:35 * MrsB looks at wilcal
20:55:51 <MrsB> go lewis
20:56:23 <lewyssmith> That idea of reviewing briefly outstanding updates individually is good...
20:56:44 <lewyssmith> because so many of them are enigmatic, cryptic....
20:56:56 <MrsB> ok we can do that i think
20:57:04 <lewyssmith> to give everyone an idea of how to tackle the less obvious ones.
20:57:35 <lewyssmith> But it would need a little preparation by Claire/Dave beforehand.
20:57:36 <MrsB> The best advice and the first thing i do is click the bugzilla link on the madb page and see how it was done last time, if there has been a last time
20:58:16 <lewyssmith> This avoids the issue. We could all see what is in store, ask advice where necessary.
20:58:37 <DavidWHodgins> The microspdy2http one, is one I've never heard of before, so it will take some research.
20:58:53 <Stormi> there's also the option of coming to the irc channel, say "I want to test" and ask questions :)
20:58:54 <MrsB> yeah that's a weird new one
20:59:04 <MrsB> yep, or the ML
20:59:05 <lewyssmith> I noticed a bug where Shlomi said he was clueless even after consulting the source site.
20:59:23 <MrsB> yes that was spice
20:59:38 <Stormi> There's hplip almost ready to push. We need someone to test wireless
20:59:52 <lewyssmith> But the idea you just said of having a ML item for each bug is good too.
21:00:06 <DavidWHodgins> Wireless for hplip?
21:00:13 <MrsB> Remember though you can ask questions any time, and if theres nobody around here then post to qa-discuss or try #mageia-dev too
21:00:13 <lewyssmith> Stormi, that is the sort of info to air.
21:00:17 <Stormi> lewyssmith: we already have, it's called qa-bugs ML :)
21:00:36 <Stormi> one thread per bug would be a lot
21:00:43 <DavidWHodgins> Stormi: That's just a feed of all comments to bugzilla.
21:00:45 <Stormi> and the bug report is for that
21:01:14 <lewyssmith> I am not alone in scanning bugs & wondering whether I can test them.
21:01:45 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: In some cases, all we can test, is that the packages install cleanly.
21:01:48 <MrsB> have a go lewis, if you try and find you get stuck nobody will chastise you
21:02:09 <Stormi> the thing is, the list of bugs is alive, is moving all the time, so we have to look at the bug report and decide if we can or not
21:02:15 <DavidWHodgins> We have to decide that on a package by package basis.
21:02:16 <lewyssmith> OK, an effort to put in each bug the requirements to test it.
21:02:19 <Stormi> with habit, we know what kind of packages are easier :)
21:02:32 <MrsB> it's generally see how things were tested before, then ask, then resort to googling
21:02:50 <MrsB> then ask again
21:02:57 <Stormi> I usually look first at the procedure column in madb
21:02:59 <lewyssmith> You know the sort of thing we see: bagy security update. Stop.
21:03:14 <Stormi> and we try to add the has_procedure keyword that makes it appear when we can
21:03:26 <lewyssmith> Or "crafted thingies can crash xyz".
21:03:33 <MrsB> I always try to write how I've tested something in the bug report
21:03:40 <MrsB> yeah they can be a bit vague sometimes
21:04:18 <MrsB> when they're like that though and we're not able to test the patch then we have to just test it works ok as best we can do
21:04:27 <lewyssmith> You have to find out what xyz is, whether you can install it, whether it needs a network to test etc.
21:04:38 <MrsB> yes
21:04:58 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Often we have to dig through the references, to see if there is a proof of concept, showing how to create the problem. If not, just test that the program works with basic usage.
21:05:01 <Stormi> that's why QA makes us progressively linux-smarter :)
21:05:05 <MrsB> It's a constant learning curve
21:05:50 <lewyssmith> A bug review would still be handy, like we saw last week.
21:06:04 <MrsB> I'll guarantee that everybody here learns something new every single day
21:06:36 <MrsB> lets try it next time lewis
21:07:13 <MrsB> #info next meeting we'll try a bug review and quicky run through the outstanding updates and talk about how best to test them
21:07:22 <lewyssmith> Too many of them are meaningless, written in Klingon.
21:07:40 <lewyssmith> Only the obscure ones.
21:08:08 <lewyssmith> Enough said! Idea planted.
21:08:11 <MrsB> you'll notice alot have the same type of issues
21:08:56 <MrsB> you'll get used to them lewis, nobody is expected to pick things up overnight
21:09:15 * simonnzg is now sure MrsB is staring at him...
21:09:19 <MrsB> lol
21:09:28 <MrsB> we'll get you testing a few too maybe simonnzg
21:09:47 <lewyssmith> Have you never wondered why so many people want to join QA and then disappear forever?
21:09:48 <simonnzg> MrsB: Testing is easy - knowing what to look for is another matter
21:10:04 <MrsB> it's intimidating at first
21:10:54 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: I've tested x86_64 and added a procedure for libmicrohttpd.
21:11:12 <lewyssmith> Hint?
21:11:36 <lewyssmith> Let's stop.
21:11:52 <DavidWHodgins> Found the procedure using a google search, and reading the output of microspdy2http, when wrong parameters were used.
21:12:25 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. Let's close the meeting.
21:12:39 <MrsB> Is there anything else else?
21:12:47 <DavidWHodgins> Not here
21:12:51 <dvg_l> n ope
21:13:01 <lewyssmith> Goodbye.
21:13:09 <MrsB> T-5
21:13:12 <MrsB> 4
21:13:14 <MrsB> 3
21:13:14 <dvg_l> bye
21:13:15 <MrsB> 2
21:13:17 <MrsB> 1
21:13:26 <MrsB> Nite all, thanks for coming!
21:13:31 <MrsB> #endmeeting