20:06:05 <MrsB> #startmeeting 20:06:05 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Jan 30 20:06:05 2014 UTC. The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:06:05 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:06:20 <MrsB> we had a bit of snow earlie, lasted all of 5 mins 20:06:41 <MrsB> Hi everybody welcome to a rather tired and worn out meeting 20:06:56 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins 20:06:56 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB 20:06:58 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? If you've just joined us come and say Hi 20:07:02 <MrsB> :) wb 20:07:14 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks. 20:07:15 <MrsB> Is there anybody new here today? 20:07:51 <MrsB> think i probably sent the meeting email too late 20:08:16 <MrsB> Ok maybe next time ! 20:08:16 <lewyssmith> 10 lines. 20:08:24 * Kernewes raps MrsB's knuckles 20:08:24 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Mageia 4 20:08:39 <lewyssmith> Aaaah. 20:08:39 <MrsB> So this is the big one 20:09:01 <ennael> hi there 20:09:02 <MrsB> Has anybody found anything and not yet mentioned it anywhere? 20:09:06 <DavidWHodgins> I've only been able to sync the x86_64 iso, and then saw ennael msg about new iso images coming. 20:09:10 <MrsB> morning ennael 20:09:22 <MrsB> you rnet still up and down dave? 20:09:22 * ennael is fixing her mess 20:09:28 <DavidWHodgins> Yes 20:09:41 <DavidWHodgins> And slow while it is up, most of the time. 20:09:41 * Kernewes mess is beyond fixing 20:09:45 <MrsB> it's a good job Luc noticed 20:10:01 <DavidWHodgins> Also the size problem, as per bug 11446 20:10:03 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11446 enhancement, Normal, ennael1, REOPENED , consider making the size of the clasic istallation iso's smaller 20:10:15 <MrsB> It was adding mga4 medias though, even as it was 20:10:31 <lewyssmith> But please keep LXDE. 20:10:44 <Kernewes> but I wanted task-mate not task-mate-minimal 20:10:55 * simonnzg|2 is late. As usual. 20:11:09 <MrsB> Stormi is here too \o/ 20:11:12 <DavidWHodgins> Just needs to be reduced by a little over 5MB 20:11:32 <DavidWHodgins> Hi simonnzg|2 20:11:34 <Stormi> o/ 20:11:39 <lewyssmith> Is OpenBox desktop necessary? 20:11:39 <rindolf> I haven't done any testing of the latest Mageia 4 ISOs - if anyone can tell me what I can test on VBox, that will be nice. 20:11:53 <Stormi> neoclust: let's continue on #mageia-dev regarding apper maybe 20:12:00 <MrsB> On time i'd say simonnzg|2 20:12:14 <neoclust> Stormi: ok :) 20:12:34 <simonnzg|2> GE all. 20:12:39 <MrsB> rindolf: test upgrades from mga3 please 20:12:41 <Kernewes> simonnzg|2: hiya 20:12:56 <rindolf> MrsB: OK, using which ISOs? 20:13:01 <MrsB> the classic dvd's 20:13:11 <rindolf> MrsB: OK, I will start a sync. 20:13:15 <MrsB> thanks 20:13:46 <Kernewes> simonnzg: you've shrunk 20:13:50 <MrsB> So what's left to do? 20:13:50 <RemyServices> i have some 32bit upgrades i can test, will try to do that tonight 20:14:10 <neoclust> MrsB: i tried to update from mga3 to mga4 for my work machine, except vim ( fixed ) all went well 20:14:12 <MrsB> Yes please do RemyServices, make sure you have the latest isos. They will be rebuilt tonight i think 20:14:23 <simonnzg> Kernewes: Trying to hide. 20:14:31 <RemyServices> ok, i will wait for the updates 20:14:41 <Kernewes> simonnzg: it's OK, Marja isn't here 20:14:42 <MrsB> thanks neoclust thats good, if you can find some time can you try again with different packages 20:14:58 <lewyssmith> My only 32-bit upgrade went well. 20:15:05 <MrsB> vbox is fine for testing that, it makes it easy too 20:15:33 <lewyssmith> But the hard disc holding the base M3 died during, so I cannot do any more. 20:15:40 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. Install Mageia 3, test the upgrade, and then you can roll back the snapshot, to test with other iso images. 20:15:58 <MrsB> #info tomorrow will be the final push. Please put as much time into it as you can. We have to test all ISOs and each DE installed from the classics 20:16:03 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: :( 20:16:21 <MrsB> oh now lewis :( 20:16:24 <MrsB> no* 20:16:30 <dvg_l> sorry other duties tomorrow 20:16:34 <MrsB> everybody is losing hardware this time :\ 20:17:00 <lewyssmith> I think M4 did for mine. 20:17:07 * Kernewes can't promise tomorrow either 20:17:25 <MrsB> I'll dust off my laptop for irc etc and get to desktops testing tomorrow 20:17:29 <DavidWHodgins> If my network stays up, I should be able to test. 20:18:05 <lewyssmith> I cannot any more do EFI installs. Can anyone tell me if the procedure has changed? 20:18:29 <MrsB> tmb: any advice on efi please? ^^ 20:18:29 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Around? 20:18:34 <RemyServices> has the slow booting liveCD/DVD been addressed by chance? 20:19:04 <MrsB> mine is slow booting due to a didgy bios upgrade, using usb 1 20:19:08 <MrsB> dodgy 20:19:46 <MrsB> it does seem a bit quicker with the last set though 20:20:06 <RemyServices> ok, i will retest that too 20:20:12 <Kernewes> it didn't seem particularly slow to me 20:20:13 <dvg_l> i never had slowdown 20:20:23 <MrsB> #info we can't release until everything has been tested 20:20:26 <Kernewes> the shutdown is definitely better 20:21:38 <lewyssmith> Is the Classic window overlay going to be sorted? 20:22:15 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Is it a release blocker? 20:22:30 <MrsB> I don't think so for mga4, i think it's a GTK3 problem anyway 20:22:39 <lewyssmith> Just aesthetic. It looks poor, but does not stop the install. 20:22:44 <Stormi> I hope I can help tomorrow but I'm actually expected to work... at work :/ 20:23:00 <Kernewes> Stormi: :( 20:23:22 <RemyServices> rough eta on new builds? 20:23:32 <MrsB> before bedtime 20:24:19 <Kernewes> MrsB: I suppose you're going to say you go to bed at 6 a.m. 20:24:52 <MrsB> previously I have done on release day 20:24:58 <MrsB> mga2 and mga3 20:25:10 <lewyssmith> Make it 3. 20:25:13 <MrsB> hopefully we can get it all done tomorrow though 20:25:35 <MrsB> we all have to do our bit though 20:26:08 <MrsB> So is there anything else to add here or are we just waiting for the fixed ISOs now? 20:26:29 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Any info on efi? 20:27:02 <lewyssmith> He enhanced things, but I do not know how to make it work now. 20:27:03 <tmb> efi boots properly from isos, 20:27:18 <MrsB> Can you outline the procedure tmb please 20:27:19 <tmb> as in real cd/dvd medias 20:27:25 <DavidWHodgins> Same instructions as before? 20:27:40 <DavidWHodgins> Not from usb any more? 20:27:45 <lewyssmith> Directly? Do you just use a straight ISO DVD? 20:28:19 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins, I have message-listed this. 20:28:21 <tmb> if you want to boot from usb stick, you need a fat32 formatted stick and copy the contents of the iso there 20:28:44 <DavidWHodgins> So same as the prior instructions for the live iso images. 20:28:49 <tmb> live medias need s/Mageia-4-GNOME-LiveDVD/MGALIVE UEFI/ if booted from usb stick 20:28:51 <lewyssmith> I always did that. Can you look at the PAD for Gnome Live? 20:29:18 <tmb> you can edit boot selections with "e" 20:29:30 <RemyServices> you can also use grub4dos and use a new partition method to boot iso's, we can review that later though, been working for me 20:29:37 <DavidWHodgins> What label on the iso image now? 20:29:45 <lewyssmith> You have simplified the boot menu. 20:30:02 <tmb> but if I must respin isos, maybe I should add the "(usb boot)" back to make it simple 20:30:11 <MrsB> #info efi boots properly from the isos, if using usb you need a fat32 formatted stick and copy the contents of the iso there. live medias need s/Mageia-4-GNOME-LiveDVD/MGALIVE UEFI/ if booted from usb stick, you can edit boot selections with "e" 20:30:37 <lewyssmith> I will try the straight ISOs, simpler anyway. 20:30:53 <MrsB> tmb if using an actual dvd what then? 20:30:54 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, you need to label the usb according to what you pass on command string 20:31:31 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, so if you label it MGA4 then: s/Mageia-4-GNOME-LiveDVD/MGA4 UEFI/ 20:31:59 <tmb> real dvds will boot up as without interaction 20:32:07 <lewyssmith> Fine. 20:32:10 <MrsB> #info you need to label the usb according to what you pass on command string, so if you label it MGA4 then: s/Mageia-4-GNOME-LiveDVD/MGA4 UEFI/ 20:32:25 <MrsB> so just able to burn them as a normal image? 20:32:27 <lewyssmith> Where is this substitution? 20:33:01 <MrsB> #info if using an actual dvd they will boot up without any interaction 20:33:12 <lewyssmith> Fingers crossed. 20:33:25 <MrsB> I can't help testing any of that 20:33:26 <tmb> Note, the installer X server will crash on boot, and get restarted in ~15-60 seconds as it has trouble with uefi -> framebuffer handover... so UEFI for mga4 is *experimental* 20:33:40 <MrsB> #info Note, the installer X server will crash on boot, and get restarted in ~15-60 seconds as it has trouble with uefi -> framebuffer handover... so UEFI for mga4 is *experimental* 20:33:49 <lewyssmith> It has worked fine since Beta. 20:34:05 <MrsB> dvg noticed a crash on boot i think 20:34:20 <lewyssmith> For the Live DVDs. 20:34:35 <tmb> lewyssmith, that is with the live isos yes, but stage2 installer runs in framebuffer mode, and that still has some issues 20:34:56 <Stormi> note that in UEFI sometimes vesa doesn't work 20:34:59 <MrsB> #info the crash should only be with classic isos 20:35:13 <Stormi> (for live) 20:35:16 <tmb> because uefi does not support VESA 20:35:16 <MrsB> you get half a screen Stormi? 20:35:32 <Stormi> MrsB: less than that, no screen at all 20:35:37 <MrsB> oh 20:35:47 <tmb> and as usual some dual gpu systems has issues 20:35:56 <lewyssmith> I can only do EFI Live DVDs now; no time for the Classic. 20:36:02 <MrsB> #info some dual gpu systems may still have issues 20:36:20 <Stormi> yes, I couldn't boot the live in UEFI because of X issues (feedback in pad), legacy mode allowed to use vesa 20:36:31 <MrsB> we'll have to try and put together some kernel commadn line workarounds 20:36:52 <tmb> but other than that I have re-installed all my uefi systems here with boot.iso, x86_64 DVD and a x86_64 liveDVD 20:36:57 <Stormi> we tried with tmb with no luck for my system 20:37:12 <Stormi> (kernel options) 20:37:36 <MrsB> dvg_l: you were using some weren't you? 20:37:44 <MrsB> lewis did you use some before? 20:37:53 <lewyssmith> Some what? 20:37:54 <tmb> the fun thing is that with dual gpu systems, most installs would work better if we would not have any nonfree drivers :) 20:38:03 <MrsB> kernel command line options 20:38:10 <lewyssmith> No. 20:38:15 <dvg_l> some what? 20:38:17 <MrsB> kernel command line options 20:38:28 <MrsB> for dual gpu 20:38:42 <dvg_l> oh sure. those worked occasionally 20:38:49 <Stormi> tmb: not here because it looks like it's the intel driver that crashes, but my computer is not all dual-gpu computers :) 20:38:54 <MrsB> what were you using dvg_l? 20:39:03 <dvg_l> but was only for workround nv pobs 20:39:10 <dvg_l> probs 20:39:33 <dvg_l> and worked only partly in older versions 20:39:43 <MrsB> ahh ok, maybe no longer relevant then 20:39:55 <dvg_l> like: rd.blacklist=nouveau xdriver=intel 20:40:00 <dvg_l> no 20:40:08 <Stormi> it could work in some configurations I guess 20:40:15 <dvg_l> yes 20:40:15 <Stormi> in fact could work in mine 20:40:20 <Stormi> the blacklist part 20:40:27 <Stormi> I'll try to try 20:40:30 <Stormi> :) 20:40:32 <MrsB> #info one to try : rd.blacklist=nouveau xdriver=intel 20:40:44 <Stormi> maybe blacklist nvidia too 20:40:51 <Stormi> since it's on the livedvd too 20:40:54 <Stormi> better let intel alone 20:40:57 <MrsB> give it a whirl after Stormi 20:41:14 <dvg_l> latest versions didnt need it, earlier ones did not accept it 20:42:06 <MrsB> Is there anything else Mageia 4 ? 20:42:47 <DavidWHodgins> #topic What are you going to do next week? 20:42:56 <MrsB> Ok so tomorrow is the big day :) 20:42:57 <tmb> whats the thught on live medias? should I respin one more ? 20:43:18 <MrsB> yes please tmb, it needs at least install putting back in gnome menu 20:43:34 <lewyssmith> Do we have tomorrow evening? 20:43:41 <MrsB> wasn't there somethign else too? 20:44:14 <MrsB> nope, that was the main thing i think 20:44:23 <MrsB> wifi is working well now 20:44:35 <RemyServices> for reference, what is "tonight", and "tomorrow". it is 1:45pm here, what is the timezone for the chat room? 20:44:48 <DavidWHodgins> RemyServices: utc 20:44:51 <MrsB> lewis it depends how long it takes us to test everything. I would think so though 20:45:05 <lewyssmith> OK. What is the deadline UTC? 20:45:24 <DavidWHodgins> When we are ready. 20:45:29 <RemyServices> DavidWHodgins: good deal, wanted to make sure that is how we were working it 20:45:32 <tmb> ok, I'll start re-spin now as I hav to catch a flight to brussels in ~6 hours 20:45:35 <MrsB> There isn't one really, we just can't release until everything is tested properly 20:45:58 <MrsB> Give them a quick test tmb before you go please 20:46:12 <lewyssmith> Please! 20:46:56 <MrsB> Sooo what are you all going to do next week? 20:47:05 <MrsB> I'm planning on staying in bed 20:47:06 <dvg_l> rest 20:47:22 <lewyssmith> You want us to say "Update testing". 20:47:29 <Kernewes> depends whether the day job kills me :( 20:47:38 <DavidWHodgins> 33 updates for Mageia 3 that need testing, though 6 of them are awaiting feedback. 20:47:47 <MrsB> If you want to lewis I don't think anybody will mind! 20:48:01 <lewyssmith> I did a couple, but many fox me. 20:48:11 <MrsB> We saved some for your return Dave 20:48:18 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:48:34 <MrsB> I knew you'd want something to do 20:48:35 <Stormi> 23 rather than 33 20:48:46 <Stormi> 33 would be if we hadn't validated some of them, maybe even 43 :) 20:48:47 <lewyssmith> Anyhow, I have lost my Mageia 3. 20:48:55 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Yes. Misread it. 20:49:02 <MrsB> we claered quite a few last week didn't we 20:49:21 <Stormi> we did 20:49:27 <MrsB> is that the one that died lewis? 20:49:39 * tmb has kept kernels "off list" to not overload QA but a week or so after mga4 release there will probably land a full set for mga3 20:49:45 <Stormi> we didn't want DavidWHodgins to think we needed him (but we actually do :)) 20:49:51 <lewyssmith> MrsB, Yes; backup of same. 20:50:12 <MrsB> Well updates will start soon for mga4 too, there is usually a bit of a rush after release 20:50:12 <lewyssmith> I have 2 M4s. 20:50:27 <Stormi> we need to clear the list 20:50:37 <MrsB> yep 20:50:58 <DavidWHodgins> I'll do as much as I can, network permitting, over the weekend. 20:51:03 <MrsB> so enjoy a break, have a rest, but then come back and test updates :) 20:51:18 <rindolf> Sorry all, I'm going to sleep. 20:51:25 <Kernewes> so am I 20:51:27 <MrsB> Nite rindolf, thanks for coming 20:51:31 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins, Don't try too much. 20:51:33 <Kernewes> nite 20:51:34 <MrsB> nite Kernewes too 20:51:37 <rindolf> MrsB: you're welcome. 20:52:08 <MrsB> why does everybody run away when we talk about testing updates :D 20:52:14 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:52:27 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup 20:52:38 <MrsB> Thanks 20:52:43 <MrsB> Luigi12_work: ping? 20:52:50 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_lappy: ping 20:52:56 <MrsB> Luigi12: ping 20:53:10 * Stormi is Luigi12. So I haven't any sec update, thanks, bye. :) 20:53:20 <MrsB> \o/ score 20:53:25 <DavidWHodgins> lol 20:53:39 <MrsB> Stormi: you make an excellent Luigi12 20:54:26 <MrsB> I remember him saying he would be busy this week, so that might mean we have a rush of sec updates next week too 20:54:46 <DavidWHodgins> With cauldron now frozen, until after release, I expect any new ones will have to wait. 20:54:58 <MrsB> yes maybe so 20:55:15 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else? 20:55:16 <MrsB> anyway, lets finish off shall we 20:55:27 <MrsB> Is there anythign else? 20:55:28 <lewyssmith> Yes, for the future... 20:55:35 * MrsB looks at wilcal 20:55:51 <MrsB> go lewis 20:56:23 <lewyssmith> That idea of reviewing briefly outstanding updates individually is good... 20:56:44 <lewyssmith> because so many of them are enigmatic, cryptic.... 20:56:56 <MrsB> ok we can do that i think 20:57:04 <lewyssmith> to give everyone an idea of how to tackle the less obvious ones. 20:57:35 <lewyssmith> But it would need a little preparation by Claire/Dave beforehand. 20:57:36 <MrsB> The best advice and the first thing i do is click the bugzilla link on the madb page and see how it was done last time, if there has been a last time 20:58:16 <lewyssmith> This avoids the issue. We could all see what is in store, ask advice where necessary. 20:58:37 <DavidWHodgins> The microspdy2http one, is one I've never heard of before, so it will take some research. 20:58:53 <Stormi> there's also the option of coming to the irc channel, say "I want to test" and ask questions :) 20:58:54 <MrsB> yeah that's a weird new one 20:59:04 <MrsB> yep, or the ML 20:59:05 <lewyssmith> I noticed a bug where Shlomi said he was clueless even after consulting the source site. 20:59:23 <MrsB> yes that was spice 20:59:38 <Stormi> There's hplip almost ready to push. We need someone to test wireless 20:59:52 <lewyssmith> But the idea you just said of having a ML item for each bug is good too. 21:00:06 <DavidWHodgins> Wireless for hplip? 21:00:13 <MrsB> Remember though you can ask questions any time, and if theres nobody around here then post to qa-discuss or try #mageia-dev too 21:00:13 <lewyssmith> Stormi, that is the sort of info to air. 21:00:17 <Stormi> lewyssmith: we already have, it's called qa-bugs ML :) 21:00:36 <Stormi> one thread per bug would be a lot 21:00:43 <DavidWHodgins> Stormi: That's just a feed of all comments to bugzilla. 21:00:45 <Stormi> and the bug report is for that 21:01:14 <lewyssmith> I am not alone in scanning bugs & wondering whether I can test them. 21:01:45 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: In some cases, all we can test, is that the packages install cleanly. 21:01:48 <MrsB> have a go lewis, if you try and find you get stuck nobody will chastise you 21:02:09 <Stormi> the thing is, the list of bugs is alive, is moving all the time, so we have to look at the bug report and decide if we can or not 21:02:15 <DavidWHodgins> We have to decide that on a package by package basis. 21:02:16 <lewyssmith> OK, an effort to put in each bug the requirements to test it. 21:02:19 <Stormi> with habit, we know what kind of packages are easier :) 21:02:32 <MrsB> it's generally see how things were tested before, then ask, then resort to googling 21:02:50 <MrsB> then ask again 21:02:57 <Stormi> I usually look first at the procedure column in madb 21:02:59 <lewyssmith> You know the sort of thing we see: bagy security update. Stop. 21:03:14 <Stormi> and we try to add the has_procedure keyword that makes it appear when we can 21:03:26 <lewyssmith> Or "crafted thingies can crash xyz". 21:03:33 <MrsB> I always try to write how I've tested something in the bug report 21:03:40 <MrsB> yeah they can be a bit vague sometimes 21:04:18 <MrsB> when they're like that though and we're not able to test the patch then we have to just test it works ok as best we can do 21:04:27 <lewyssmith> You have to find out what xyz is, whether you can install it, whether it needs a network to test etc. 21:04:38 <MrsB> yes 21:04:58 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Often we have to dig through the references, to see if there is a proof of concept, showing how to create the problem. If not, just test that the program works with basic usage. 21:05:01 <Stormi> that's why QA makes us progressively linux-smarter :) 21:05:05 <MrsB> It's a constant learning curve 21:05:50 <lewyssmith> A bug review would still be handy, like we saw last week. 21:06:04 <MrsB> I'll guarantee that everybody here learns something new every single day 21:06:36 <MrsB> lets try it next time lewis 21:07:13 <MrsB> #info next meeting we'll try a bug review and quicky run through the outstanding updates and talk about how best to test them 21:07:22 <lewyssmith> Too many of them are meaningless, written in Klingon. 21:07:40 <lewyssmith> Only the obscure ones. 21:08:08 <lewyssmith> Enough said! Idea planted. 21:08:11 <MrsB> you'll notice alot have the same type of issues 21:08:56 <MrsB> you'll get used to them lewis, nobody is expected to pick things up overnight 21:09:15 * simonnzg is now sure MrsB is staring at him... 21:09:19 <MrsB> lol 21:09:28 <MrsB> we'll get you testing a few too maybe simonnzg 21:09:47 <lewyssmith> Have you never wondered why so many people want to join QA and then disappear forever? 21:09:48 <simonnzg> MrsB: Testing is easy - knowing what to look for is another matter 21:10:04 <MrsB> it's intimidating at first 21:10:54 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: I've tested x86_64 and added a procedure for libmicrohttpd. 21:11:12 <lewyssmith> Hint? 21:11:36 <lewyssmith> Let's stop. 21:11:52 <DavidWHodgins> Found the procedure using a google search, and reading the output of microspdy2http, when wrong parameters were used. 21:12:25 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. Let's close the meeting. 21:12:39 <MrsB> Is there anything else else? 21:12:47 <DavidWHodgins> Not here 21:12:51 <dvg_l> n ope 21:13:01 <lewyssmith> Goodbye. 21:13:09 <MrsB> T-5 21:13:12 <MrsB> 4 21:13:14 <MrsB> 3 21:13:14 <dvg_l> bye 21:13:15 <MrsB> 2 21:13:17 <MrsB> 1 21:13:26 <MrsB> Nite all, thanks for coming! 21:13:31 <MrsB> #endmeeting