20:06:26 <MrsB> #startmeeting
20:06:26 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Jan 16 20:06:26 2014 UTC.  The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:06:26 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:06:38 <lewyssmith> It blanks quickly, a touch shows a fullscreen time, no idea what is happening.
20:06:41 <MrsB> Morning everybody again
20:06:50 <wilcal> Morn'n
20:06:58 <lewyssmith> Getting the real insqtall screen back is a mystery.
20:07:10 <MrsB> #topic Who's new?
20:07:18 <MrsB> Is there anybody new here today?
20:07:41 * MrsB looks at saptech
20:08:08 <MrsB> nope, he's gone :D
20:09:00 <MrsB> #topic What constitutes a proper upgrade?
20:09:09 <MrsB> wilcal, over to you :)
20:09:18 <wilcal> I'd like to post my proposal here goes
20:09:27 <wilcal> I would like to propose the following process on Version updates.
20:09:29 <wilcal> Take the M3 -> M4 update. Using the original M3 Classic Installer
20:09:30 <wilcal> create a new install with just that ISO and the default apps
20:09:32 <wilcal> that are installed. Using the latest version of the repo update
20:09:33 <wilcal> that M3 test install to the latest versions. Reboot back to a working
20:09:35 <wilcal> desktop. Add no additional apps. Using the M4 Classic Installer
20:09:36 <wilcal> update the M3 install to M4. Reboot system, set up the M4 repo,
20:09:38 <wilcal> execute updates, and do a final reboot of the system. That should
20:09:39 <wilcal> result in a working desktop. Should it not achieve a working desktop
20:09:41 <wilcal> a BUG report is generated and that BUG would be a blocking BUG for
20:09:42 <wilcal> the release of M4. If additional apps are added to the original M3
20:09:44 <wilcal> test install those apps should have BUG reports generated but
20:09:45 <wilcal> treated as normal BUGS and not release blocking BUGS.
20:10:09 <dvg> wilcal: been doing that for years :)
20:10:12 <MrsB> To a point, that's about right
20:10:29 <wilcal> I think we should all do it this way
20:10:40 <MrsB> If there is a bug which means upgrade can't proceed then it needs to be fixed
20:10:53 <MrsB> We also have to test online upgrades
20:11:05 <wilcal> But it must originate from the basic install to block
20:11:26 <wilcal> I for example Apache does not upgrade properly then that's a bug but not a blocker
20:11:29 <MrsB> #info killall mgaapplet && mgaapplet --testing to test online upgrades
20:11:47 <lewyssmith> Is not the original M3 upgrade huge?
20:12:02 <MrsB> pretty big
20:12:08 <marja> wilcal: what do you count as a "basic" install?
20:12:11 <wilcal> If you use the origional M3 ISO and upgrade that it is huge
20:12:13 <lewyssmith> It can often kill a system
20:12:29 <wilcal> Yes, but I did one lately and it worked fine
20:12:44 <wilcal> but update just the basic install
20:13:01 <Kernewes> wilcal: but you get lots of choices, so what's the default?
20:13:04 <MrsB> it depends what the bug is with apache though wilcal, if the upgrade con't complete because of a bug with apache then it needs to be fixed. If it just gives a warning or something then ideally it will be fixed but in theory we could update later.
20:13:34 <wilcal> In my case it was an RPM that was not on the M4 Classic Installer
20:13:40 <Luigi12_work> bug was it removing apache-mod_* packages that are not on the ISO, and it only affects ISO upgrades when you don't have access to the remote repositories
20:13:46 <wilcal> And that can be for many apps
20:14:03 <Luigi12_work> hypothetically, but hopefully not
20:14:08 <MrsB> In the past we've tried with various different packages installed. Usually use vbox for that, just take a snapshot, install some random 'stuff' then try the upgrade. Roll it back and start again with different random 'stuff'
20:14:18 <wilcal> I think you have to assume that initially you don't have the remote repo up when you upgrade
20:14:28 <wilcal> You only have the new media
20:14:37 <Luigi12_work> well it's just a different test case
20:14:47 <lewyssmith> I agree with the principle of starting with a virgin M3; but think that updating real *up-to-date* systems is also necessary.
20:15:07 <wilcal> You then run the risk of breaking it
20:15:08 <Luigi12_work> if there's a problem when you do have repo access that's a big problem.  A probably with ISO-only, if it doesn't cause the upgrade to completely fail, is not a big deal
20:15:25 <wilcal> An ISO-ony upgrade, yes
20:15:39 <lewyssmith> i.e. use your current working system as the upgrade ref - SAVING IT FIRST.
20:16:20 <wilcal> Anyway a good discussion about it. There does not appear to be a big problems with M3 -> M4 now
20:16:22 <marja> lewyssmith: can you please #idea that
20:16:39 <lewyssmith> How?
20:16:54 <Luigi12_work> info isn't it?
20:17:05 <marja> lewyssmith: say it again, but put "#idea" before it
20:17:10 <dvg> current system always has customizations, so IMHO not a good reference
20:17:21 <lewyssmith> But a better test
20:17:28 <MrsB> more realistic yes
20:17:35 <MrsB> it's best to test various setups
20:17:43 <MrsB> be random about it
20:18:03 <MrsB> it should be the up to date packages though
20:18:20 <marja> Luigi12_work: I'm not sure that an #info works when you're not a chair, IINM #idea should
20:18:36 <lewyssmith> #idea: Use your working system as the upgrade test. SAVE IT FIRST, restore it afterwards.
20:18:38 <MrsB> info does for anybody, never tried idea
20:18:45 <marja> lewyssmith: thx
20:19:05 <lewyssmith> Use partclone etc for the save/restore
20:19:35 <MrsB> are we happy?
20:19:41 <wilcal> Yep
20:20:08 <MrsB> everybody know what they're doing?
20:20:21 <dvg> nothing ATM
20:20:25 <lewyssmith> Using Live Gnome DVD!
20:20:28 * mga4rcgazer never liked the idea of upgrading - rather start from clean install each time copying any own data from old system
20:20:46 <lewyssmith> Problem is all the extra apps.
20:21:08 <MrsB> lets move on then, missing Dave :)
20:21:18 <wilcal> I always start my upgrades with www.killdisk.com
20:21:18 <marja> :-/
20:21:21 <lewyssmith> I had to fiddle/extend this M4 install to be able to use it.
20:21:30 <MrsB> #topic Mageia 4 RC & Mageia 3 Updated ISOs
20:21:50 <MrsB> So how are the ISOs
20:21:55 <lewyssmith> Hot water.
20:21:57 <wilcal> If anything test'n M4RC is exciting
20:22:03 <mga4rcgazer> lewyssmith: I use a post_install script for extras 'n stuff
20:22:10 * Luigi12_work has a note if we do mga3 updated ISOs
20:22:25 <wilcal> For me today M4RC KDE Live media is golden
20:22:26 <MrsB> ennael tmb here?
20:22:34 * tmb is here
20:22:36 <marja> KDE looks good... one laptop still boots into a black screen with the lives, though
20:22:50 <MrsB> who has intel/nvidia?
20:23:06 <wilcal> I'm doing everything so far in Vbox but will transition to real hardware in the next days
20:23:06 <Akien> I do
20:23:08 <marja> only intel here
20:23:17 <dvg> yup. GNOME DVD 64 bits Live black screen but kill X did trick: otherwise pretty good
20:23:18 <wilcal> I do have intel/nvidia
20:23:22 <MrsB> yep we need real iron now wilcal
20:23:29 <mga4rcgazer> intel atom here
20:23:41 <lewyssmith> I have AMD/ATI/Radeon, which is not straightforwrd
20:23:52 <MrsB> #info intel/nvidia..
20:23:58 <marja> dvg: how did you manage to kill X?
20:24:03 <MrsB> #info <dvg> yup. GNOME DVD 64 bits Live black screen but kill X did trick: otherwise pretty good
20:24:13 <MrsB> akien any issues?
20:24:25 <dvg> tty2 and su -, ps aux |grep X, kill it
20:24:42 <dvg> prolly Alt + Ctrl + 2 x BS would have worked too
20:24:43 <Akien> MrsB: I booted the KDE LiveCD from yesterday, it went on quite nicely
20:24:44 <marja> dvg: ah, I had a hard lock... no ttys
20:25:04 <Akien> MrsB: Er no, actually I tried it on my other laptop with AMD chipset, so irrelevant
20:25:04 <MrsB> #info <Akien> I booted the KDE LiveCD from yesterday, it went on quite nicely
20:25:05 <lewyssmith> For x64 Live DVD, which is more important; KDE or Gnome, I cannot have both?
20:25:10 <MrsB> oh
20:25:12 <MrsB> #undo
20:25:12 <Inigo_Montoya`> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x8360f6c>
20:25:14 <Akien> I'll do some test on my intel/nvidia laptop tomorrow then
20:25:20 <MrsB> please, yes
20:25:39 <MrsB> old intel marja?
20:25:53 <marja> MrsB: indeed
20:26:16 <marja> MrsB: systemd.unit=multi-user.target leads to a working live, though
20:26:24 <MrsB> maybe similar to my one, acpi=off xdriver=vesa and then install kernel-linus and set it to intel again
20:26:43 <MrsB> ah ok
20:26:59 <marja> MrsB: I don't have the problem with traditional install, only with the Live
20:27:10 <dvg> and me
20:27:51 <lewyssmith> Is x32 full DVD OK now?
20:27:53 <MrsB> #info marja found a problem with gnome l10n but tmb thinks it's to do with the user dirs not being created and thinks he has a workaround
20:28:17 <MrsB> tmb did you fix meta-task ?
20:28:56 <dvg> could it be Dutch language related?
20:29:05 <dvg> I chose En and had all normal dirs
20:29:13 <marja> dvg: no, it is valid for French and Arab too
20:29:22 <dvg> odd
20:29:25 <marja> dvg: in Gnome??
20:29:30 <dvg> yep
20:29:34 <MrsB> you had ~/Documents ~/Videos etc
20:29:39 <dvg> yep
20:29:51 <tmb> MrsB: I actually fixed it in drakx, as the mapping must stay in meta-task for desktops other then gnome
20:29:52 <MrsB> with lives?
20:29:57 <lewyssmith> I have all those with Welsh
20:30:01 <marja> MrsB: ah, you don't choose en_US, of course, but en_GB
20:30:09 <MrsB> yes
20:30:12 <dvg> so do I
20:30:30 <marja> dvg: did you pick en_US or en_GB?
20:30:40 <lewyssmith> Right & proper.
20:30:43 <MrsB> #info the 'remove half of gnome' bug should be fixed with next isos with new drakx
20:30:43 <dvg> always en_GB
20:31:13 <marja> dvg: and MrsB has the bug, and you don't ... I'm amazed
20:31:18 <ennael> back (sorry)
20:31:20 <dvg> sorry
20:31:31 <marja> dvg: np ;-)
20:31:35 <MrsB> i haven't checked lately marja
20:31:36 <marja> ennael: welcome back :-)
20:31:43 <MrsB> hi ennael :)
20:32:14 <MrsB> so can we say, apart from dvg having to kill X that live isos are better?
20:32:34 <MrsB> and gnome l10n
20:32:44 <lewyssmith> I will try KDE DVD tomorrow.
20:32:55 <marja> MrsB: if no one has an old laptop, then the black screen for mine doesn't count
20:32:58 <dvg> looking at my /home/<user> dir I see only one oddity:
20:33:14 <dvg> file .desktop is root:root owned
20:33:22 <dvg> instead of uid:uid
20:33:48 <dvg> might that break stg?
20:33:54 <lewyssmith> Seconded.
20:34:00 <marja> MrsB: but of course the Lives are better than they were!
20:34:10 <tmb> dvg: that's because its the dm that writes that file according to chosen desktop
20:34:10 <dvg> sure
20:34:29 <dvg> I mean: marja: sure
20:34:59 <dvg> but in rd 8 I only got to try one Live disk: no more time
20:35:09 <MrsB> do you think they're better enough, almost, to release as the RC?
20:35:32 <dvg> i cannot judge that.
20:35:34 <lewyssmith> Early to say.
20:35:54 <marja> MrsB: not Gnome
20:36:11 <MrsB> no, there are a few bits we should fix first, but hardware wise?
20:36:26 <dvg> with previous versions of Mageia there were also probs with shorewall(6) which did not stop release. for me it's a security risk bug # 11928
20:36:31 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11928 normal, release_blocker, bugsquad, NEW , M4RC After install shorewall6 cannot start, shorewall-ipv6-4.5.20-3
20:36:36 <wilcal> I think KDE Live is ready to release
20:36:53 <MrsB> yes, I'm not suggesting final release, I mean 4RC
20:37:02 <tmb> well, gnome isos needs a rebuild to fix the removing of half of gnome atleast
20:37:08 <MrsB> yep
20:37:16 <dvg> ah sure, RC is okay to do RC
20:37:22 <MrsB> What needs to be fixed for RC?
20:37:36 <lewyssmith> tmb's comment.
20:37:39 <MrsB> gnome l10n I would say and the remove half of gnome
20:37:40 <marja> Did anyone manage to set up wlan with gnome?
20:37:51 <dvg> yes
20:37:57 <marja> dvg: out of the box?
20:38:01 <dvg> but i never use nm
20:38:15 <dvg> i use wpa supplicant
20:38:26 <marja> dvg: you mean you remove it in gnome?
20:38:43 <dvg> I mean I glag the nm service as not active in summary
20:38:51 <dvg> s/glag/flag
20:39:19 <dvg> first time I had wifi it took me some time, now i know where to do what
20:39:23 <marja> dvg: that is not really "out of the box" :-/
20:39:27 <dvg> true
20:39:36 <tmb> I did boot a laptop into gnome and connected it to my wlan (with intel 4965 wireless)
20:39:55 <dvg> but i have nonfree hardware
20:39:57 <marja> tmb: out of the box
20:39:58 <wilcal> fwiw I've been carry'n my M4 laptop to the library and use'n their WiFi and it works just fine
20:40:22 <MrsB> now that's commitment :)
20:40:28 <tmb> marja: well, I needed to select wich ssid to connect to, but that was all
20:40:59 <wilcal> I can also stream live through Ustream with it and that on WiFI
20:41:21 <marja> tmb: the gnome tool didn't see any networks
20:41:31 <MrsB> the one at the top marja?
20:41:47 <tmb> I connected with the drakx one :)
20:41:53 <marja> the draktool failed (undoubtedy because I didn't remove NM)
20:41:55 <marja> MrsB: yes
20:42:35 <MrsB> the one in the top panel is networkmanager, it conflicts with drakx one, so should be disabled. It only enables if told it can do.
20:42:38 <dvg> I use drakxtool on top of wpa, without nm and that works if I have the nonfree driver for realtek
20:43:05 <tmb> I dont know if anyone noticed yet, but I added mcc to gnome launcher too to help find it ...
20:43:06 <MrsB> it's disabled by default, or should be
20:43:17 <dvg> tmb: yes thanks
20:43:21 <MrsB> i noticed yes thanks, can clsoe that bug now :)
20:43:31 <lewyssmith> I saw it.
20:43:44 <lewyssmith> And it works.
20:43:45 <marja> MrsB: ah, then I screwed it up by first trying to connect over it
20:44:01 <MrsB> it usually says its 'Unmanaged' marja
20:44:03 <marja> MrsB: it is the first Networking tool you see, when starting Gnome
20:44:10 <MrsB> or 'Managed' can't remember which
20:44:17 <MrsB> i know, it's confusing
20:44:58 <marja> marja: for myself, I don't care, I just don't think Gnome is in a good enough shape to distribute without warning
20:45:12 <tmb> yeah, the debate once was if we should disable drakx-net on gnome installs and go with nm, but since that too is a works for some and not for others, it was not done
20:45:24 <wilcal> Gnome's in tough shape - still
20:45:49 <dvg> i've seen warning galore about nm years ago, and it helped me then and still does
20:45:59 <marja> well, I'm glad it all works perfect in KDE now :-)
20:46:25 <marja> not nm in KDE, but WLAN
20:46:46 <MrsB> #info There is still confusion about NM & drakx in Gnome. drakx one is hidden at the bottom and used, nm is at the top and not used.
20:47:14 <dvg> or 'drakroam'
20:47:18 <MrsB> So what about classic isos?
20:47:23 <dvg> fine
20:47:40 <MrsB> anybody tried the dual yet?
20:47:47 <marja> MrsB: ah, I thought there were new ones on the way
20:47:51 <mga4rcgazer> ues
20:47:53 <dvg> sorry, i dont see the purpose of it
20:48:02 <marja> MrsB: no, but I intend to
20:48:08 <MrsB> yes, there might be marja
20:48:13 <mga4rcgazer> no joy installing dual: problem with getting graphics working
20:48:31 <MrsB> what graphics mga4rcgazer?
20:48:45 <mga4rcgazer> on acer aspire one netbook with poulsbo graphics
20:49:05 <MrsB> that's old intel again isn't it?
20:49:13 <mga4rcgazer> yes
20:49:16 <tmb> yeah, poulsbo is a problematic hw
20:49:38 <mga4rcgazer> the test iso is working
20:49:47 <MrsB> in general tmb or just for us?
20:49:50 <mga4rcgazer> (using it right here)
20:50:08 <tmb> first intel went non-free only with separate drm stack and so on... but then Alan Cox finally started merging bits upstream
20:50:13 <tmb> MrsB: in general
20:50:32 <MrsB> what was different in the test iso?
20:50:37 <tmb> but since Intel does not care about old hw, it does not get much attention
20:50:45 <tmb> mga4rcgazer: witch test iso ?
20:50:58 <MrsB> the internal one i think
20:51:19 <mga4rcgazer> two ticks..will ssh to bos with the iso and get name
20:51:32 <tmb> I mean I had 3 ones before I released the ones with fixes by colin
20:51:37 <MrsB> ok sry
20:51:57 <mga4rcgazer> Mageia-4-RC-test-LiveCD-KDE4-int-i586-CD/
20:52:25 <mga4rcgazer> $ cat Mageia-4-RC-test-LiveCD-KDE4-int-i586-CD/DATE.txt
20:52:25 <mga4rcgazer> Sat Jan 11 23:20:00 CET 2014
20:55:29 <tmb> ok, so the one with no service_harddrake running at all
20:56:08 <mga4rcgazer> how to verify?
20:56:32 <tmb> that means our probing is wrong ... can you pastebin lspcidrake -v for that one so I can see where we map it
20:56:43 <mga4rcgazer> will do
20:57:38 <MrsB> anybody else any issues with the classic isos?
20:58:11 <marja> one that will be fixed in next round
20:58:15 <wilcal> I note any issues in etherpad
20:58:18 <dvg> smaller ones as per pad (and shorewall again, of course)
20:58:54 <lewyssmith> marja, what was yours?
20:58:54 <mga4rcgazer> tmb: http://pastebin.com/RwTn2B6h
20:58:56 <MrsB> yep, that's what i foudn too. Nothing major enough to stop release.
20:59:10 <MrsB> could somebody volunteer to check dualdvd?
20:59:18 <marja> lewyssmith: diskdrake in installer crashing when checking the contents of a partition
20:59:33 <marja> MrsB: when the new isos are there, not now
20:59:42 <MrsB> ok, great :)
20:59:54 <marja> lewyssmith: and stopping the installation
21:00:00 <MrsB> I think we probably have one more round of isos to go
21:00:03 <lewyssmith> marja, is this inevitable?
21:00:27 <marja> lewyssmith: it is fixed ... the fix will be in next isos
21:00:33 <wilcal> Yep, at least on Gnome
21:00:45 <lewyssmith> So I shall await thta. Thanks.
21:00:54 <tmb> mga4rcgazer: thanks
21:01:30 <mga4rcgazer> de rein
21:01:38 <MrsB> ennael tmb, any thoughts to add ?
21:02:03 <tmb> nope, not for now
21:03:10 <marja> how is decided what will be the default DE in traditional installer.... or is that at random?
21:03:30 <lewyssmith> Seems to be always KDE.
21:03:33 <marja> I've seen KDE at times, Gnome at other times
21:03:47 <marja> lewyssmith: last time I did a traditional install it was Gnome
21:04:02 <lewyssmith> Hard luck.
21:04:05 <wilcal> I think Mandrake originally was KDE
21:04:06 <ennael> sorry phone...
21:04:30 <wilcal> Mandriva 1st GUI was KDE
21:04:47 <MrsB> it's always kde, but i think mainly because it needs to be soemthing. A rather good feature proposal from somebody :) was to give more choice on the initial screen and not pre-select one by default. It ran out steam though, djennings was working on it
21:04:58 <mga4rcgazer> xfce is nice and light
21:05:11 <Luigi12_work> yeah whatever happened to djennings?
21:05:26 <lewyssmith> mga4rcgazer, Try Mate.
21:05:29 <marja> MrsB: it is not always KDE, but it may have been Mga3 where I just saw Gnome
21:05:51 <MrsB> i'm not sure, Luigi12_work, he disappeared
21:06:05 <MrsB> shame as he was just finding his feet
21:06:13 <marja> :-/
21:06:14 <dvg> in Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia I have always seen default KDE
21:06:28 <Kernewes> they have always been known as KDE distros
21:06:47 <marja> dvg: I was talking about Mageia ;-)
21:06:58 <dvg> me too :)
21:07:09 <marja> dvg: :-)
21:07:10 <lewyssmith> But I switched from KDE to Gnome2 under Mandrake etc.
21:07:12 <dvg> it also has a prehistory
21:07:39 <MrsB> i did that too lewis, then back to kde later
21:08:10 * marja too, used Gnome only for about half a year or a year
21:08:11 <ennael> sorry any decision about RC ?
21:08:15 <MrsB> i like the new ones too, mate, cinnamon, razor
21:08:18 * ennael is lagging
21:08:37 <MrsB> ennael: yes, we're waiting for your new ones and soem fixes from tmb
21:08:50 <wilcal> Cinnamon has a big user base with Mint
21:08:52 <MrsB> i think this should be the last set
21:09:10 <Kernewes> wilcal: Mint help with Mate as well I think
21:09:10 <marja> MrsB: yes! \o/
21:09:44 <ennael> ok I will build new isos tonight including very last stage2
21:09:52 <MrsB> woohoo!
21:09:54 <marja> ennael: nice :-)
21:09:55 <wilcal> Thks
21:10:08 <lewyssmith> Look forward.
21:10:10 <ennael> syslinux is not fixed at the moment as debugging take a lot of time and this will help later automatic tests also
21:10:10 <marja> ennael: do you mind doing a new docteam one, as well?
21:10:29 <ennael> so we will release RC with localboot buggy but fixed for final release
21:10:36 <ennael> it will avoid too much delay
21:10:42 <MrsB> what is new in new isos then?
21:10:49 <MrsB> they're pretty ok atm
21:11:00 <MrsB> apart from some intel support
21:11:03 <ennael> the bug on diskdrake that moves all the partitions
21:11:09 <MrsB> oh ok
21:11:32 <mga4rcgazer> lewyssmith: using mate already but it;s much bigger than xfce
21:11:50 <lewyssmith> Fast, though.
21:11:59 <MrsB> #info there should be new classic isos overnight with fixed diskdrake, it could move partitions before
21:12:04 <ennael> thanks again for your patience :)
21:12:11 <MrsB> tmb what are your plans?
21:13:23 <ennael> (sleep :) )
21:13:28 <marja> :-)
21:13:32 <MrsB> lol for days probably
21:13:47 <mga4rcgazer> lewyssmith: total size of installed xfce rpms is 19848256, and mate is 288408872
21:13:56 <tmb> well, I'm waiting for ennael to decide when to sync / build, and I will build against same tree
21:14:15 <lewyssmith> mga4rcgazer, I noticed it was big...
21:14:15 <MrsB> #info there should be new live's overnight too
21:14:42 <ennael> tmb: do you plan a new sync of the local repo ?
21:15:07 <MrsB> #info we *think*hope* these will be the last set and will cry if not
21:15:09 <lewyssmith> mga4rcgazer, but that difference is huge. Thanks for the info.
21:16:11 <MrsB> ennael: tmb are we still thinking we may need to delay final?
21:16:31 <tmb> ennael: well I thougt you wanted to sync in drakx that tv just pushed ...
21:16:36 <wilcal> I am already agreeing on that. Take the pressure off
21:16:53 <ennael> tmb: was yesterday :) but I see a new one tonight
21:16:57 <MrsB> you wouldn't get off that easy wilcal ;)
21:17:21 <MrsB> I'd just like to say a word about what has been discussed
21:17:42 <wilcal> M4 KDE 64-bit is play'n nicely on my laptop
21:17:46 <MrsB> If it's decided that we need to delay final, we'll try and make that decision early
21:18:24 <MrsB> IF that is necessary we'll try and build new mga3 isos in time for fosdem instead
21:18:44 <MrsB> did you get that dvg_i?
21:19:04 <dvg> i see what you say. from 2 sides
21:19:11 <MrsB> ahh lol
21:19:47 <MrsB> so IF it's necessary mga3 isos will need to go through the same ISO testing as we've been doing for mga4
21:20:03 <lewyssmith> This weekend should let us know.
21:20:20 <MrsB> In any event, at some stage we'd like to release updated mga3 isos
21:21:08 <MrsB> I hope we'll be able to release the RC tomorrow, if we can get tests and *touch wood* everything is ok, then we should be able to
21:21:30 <lewyssmith> Not Monday?
21:21:41 <MrsB> we're running out of time :\
21:22:32 <MrsB> So please evrybody have a good go at the next isos, with any luck at all, they should be our last for 4RC
21:22:42 <lewyssmith> No way to update, make media, install, test anyhgting by tomorrow.
21:22:57 <lewyssmith> Let alone the whole lot.
21:22:58 <wilcal> I have a mostly empty weekend
21:23:15 <lewyssmith> That's after tomorrow.
21:23:17 <MrsB> we'll play it by ear then, but please push to get them tested, we're way behind now
21:23:55 <tmb> yep
21:24:10 <lewyssmith> If the RCs are good, the release is easy.
21:24:26 <MrsB> yes, hopefully they will be now
21:24:50 <MrsB> Everybody Ok then? Anything else to say while we're on mga4 ?
21:24:53 <marja> oops... I forgot about the missing initrd on 32bits classical..... does that only happen ot me?
21:24:55 <wilcal> I'm good
21:25:20 <MrsB> will have to test it marja, i don't remember getting it wih the last one i did
21:25:37 <lewyssmith> marja, That's the one that interests me. Tell more.
21:25:40 <marja> I mean, while upgrading, not while freshly installing
21:25:48 <lewyssmith> OK.
21:26:13 <MrsB> #info marja found that it was missing initrd after upgrade with 32bit dvd
21:26:45 <MrsB> Anything else before we move on?
21:26:52 <marja> lewyssmith: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11827
21:26:56 <[mbot> Bug 11827: normal, Normal, bugsquad, REOPENED , initrd missing for newest kernel after upgrading with 32-bits iso (was: kernel panic when booting into 4beta-pre2 upgraded system)
21:27:23 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11827
21:27:29 <[mbot> Bug 11827: normal, Normal, bugsquad, REOPENED , initrd missing for newest kernel after upgrading with 32-bits iso (was: kernel panic when booting into 4beta-pre2 upgraded system)
21:27:46 <MrsB> #topic The huge list of updates waiting to be tested..
21:28:03 <wilcal> Sooooo many
21:28:07 <MrsB> Hopefully next week we'll be able to dig into this lot
21:28:21 <MrsB> we'll have approx 1 week to clear as much as humanly possible
21:28:26 <wilcal> Hopefully
21:28:28 <MrsB> then we'll be iso testing again
21:29:07 <MrsB> We can't afford to start mga4 with a backlog for mga3 as there is always a rush of updates following release
21:30:02 <MrsB> There have been calls for help on discuss ML and marja asked doc team to help out too
21:30:37 <MrsB> if we can't get the assistance though we'll need to look at reducing the workload
21:30:46 <lewyssmith> We have 2 weeks to M4. The next RC isos should see us there.
21:31:30 <MrsB> one week testing updates, one week testing isos (probably)
21:31:30 <wilcal> I'm on an airplane the morning of the 29th California time
21:31:46 <Kernewes> I'll see what I can do, but at the moment it depends on how I feel from one day to the next
21:32:06 <Kernewes> even looking at those couple of updates at the weekend made me really tired
21:32:26 <marja> Kernewes: ouch... hope you'll recover well and soon
21:32:54 <MrsB> #info If we have to reduce the workload to get back on top of the updates backlog we will need to limit our testing to making sure the packages update ok withou ttoo much of anything else.
21:33:16 <wilcal> Agreed
21:33:21 <MrsB> thats is far from ideal though
21:33:38 <wilcal> Do no harm rule
21:33:56 <Kernewes> marja: not very likely, it's almost certainly chronic fatigue syndrome
21:34:12 <marja> Kernewes: ouch!
21:34:17 <MrsB> #info not somethign we want to do or would do lightly
21:34:18 <Kernewes> marja: and it seems I've had it since I was a teenager and it's got a lot worse lately
21:34:35 <MrsB> Kernewes: :(
21:34:36 <Kernewes> marja: the joys of getting old :(
21:34:49 <Kernewes> the day job is very tiring too
21:34:50 <marja> Kernewes: :-/
21:34:54 <MrsB> I've been getting really bad dizzy spellsthis week
21:35:12 <Kernewes> MrsB: heck, you can't be ill, how would we manage?
21:35:13 <marja> MrsB: you've worked too hard, I bet
21:35:20 <MrsB> too much time sat here I expect
21:35:33 <lewyssmith> Certs.
21:35:55 <MrsB> and I offiicially have mild carpal tunnel, found out today
21:36:18 <MrsB> doesn'tfeel very flaming mild when it flares up thoug
21:36:23 <lewyssmith> I had a bike accident last week that should have put me in hospital.
21:36:28 <MrsB> ouch!
21:36:36 <marja> MrsB: ah, I thought it was already official a long time ago
21:36:42 <Kernewes> MrsB: occupational hazard for typists
21:37:03 <lewyssmith> Road v face, face always looses.
21:37:16 <Kernewes> MrsB: these "experts" who call things mild obviously don't have to live with them
21:37:18 <MrsB> had the tests doen this afternoon so now the doctor can feel safe in telling me what he can't do for me
21:37:44 <MrsB> we're a healthy bunch aren't we
21:37:46 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: how did that happen?
21:38:00 <lewyssmith> Jusdt a bicycle crash.
21:38:07 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: "just"
21:38:13 <marja> MrsB: ah, it is "mild" that is official now, while the carpal tunnel already was official before?
21:38:17 <MrsB> no alcohol involved lewis?
21:38:26 <diogenese> Yes, we *cough cough* are :)
21:38:37 <lewyssmith> No. I look like something out of a Hammer film.
21:38:45 <MrsB> yes it's been officially diagnosed by clinical people now marja
21:38:46 * marja thinks she's the only one healthy around
21:38:59 <lewyssmith> And Dave?
21:39:00 <Kernewes> marja: stick with us, we'll change that for you :)
21:39:11 <MrsB> Dave has uveitis (sp?)
21:39:24 <Kernewes> he's had that a while now
21:39:24 <marja> Kernewes: no need, I get my share through my daughter
21:39:30 <Kernewes> marja: :)
21:39:38 <lewyssmith> MrsB, What's that?
21:39:39 <Kernewes> how's Led43 doing these days?
21:39:51 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: some sort ofinflammation in the eyes
21:39:59 <marja> Kernewes: he didn't reply in a pm in which I asked
21:40:00 <Luigi12_work> MrsB: if we need to do updated mga3 ISOs, we'll need to push an update for the timezone package first, to fix the same issue I recently fixed in Cauldron that was breaking some new installations
21:40:14 <MrsB> he suffers seasonlly affected disorder too and can't use his special lights due to his eyes so he's not doing too well. He was 'seeing' a doctor today too
21:40:48 <Kernewes> well on a brighter note, at least my depression is better
21:40:54 <MrsB> Yay :)
21:41:09 <Kernewes> the eczema isn't great but could be worse
21:41:10 <marja> Luigi12_work: IIUC sooner or later, an updated Mga3 ISO will get done... the discussion was only about for Fosdem or not
21:41:24 <Kernewes> sorry, are we still in the meeting?
21:41:32 <marja> Luigi12_work: so I guess the timezone package can be added to the updates :-/
21:41:36 <Luigi12_work> well whenever, we'll need to update timezone before making new mga3 ISOs
21:41:39 <MrsB> #info if we do updated mga3 isos we'll need a new timezone package first as it was breaking soem installs, just been fixed in cauldron
21:41:40 <marja> Kernewes: yes, we are
21:41:41 <Kernewes> I see to have taken us way off topic
21:41:44 <Kernewes> seem
21:42:02 * Luigi12_work had a long phone call and thought he was going to miss the roundup
21:42:12 <marja> Kernewes: we're tired, so staying on topic is harder
21:42:35 <wilcal> Too many ISO's :-)
21:42:45 <MrsB> So guys to sum up, we're all a bit roughand pretty tired, but we have loooooads of updates to test next week so please do all you can to test them :)
21:43:04 <lewyssmith> wilcal, Seconded.
21:43:19 <wilcal> Will do
21:43:30 <MrsB> thankyou :)
21:43:43 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's Roundup
21:43:48 <Luigi12_work> boo
21:43:52 <MrsB> :D
21:43:55 <MrsB> over to you
21:43:58 <wilcal> Hi ya Luigi
21:44:00 <lewyssmith> Croeso.
21:44:03 <Kernewes> hi
21:44:19 <Luigi12_work> so I don't have really anything to add from last time's roundup, other than we're working on updates for java and cups, just waiting for pushes in Cauldron before assigning the mga3 updates to QA
21:44:41 <MrsB> #info java and cups updates are coming ut nothing much more to add
21:44:55 <MrsB> that was too easy, what's the catch?
21:45:04 <wilcal> Did the avclam get pushed
21:45:10 <Luigi12_work> the catch is QA already has 33 update candidates?  :o)
21:45:16 <MrsB> yeah :\
21:45:44 <MrsB> would you mind adding an advisory for clamav on bug 11288
21:45:48 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11288 normal, Normal, qa-bugs, ASSIGNED , clamav update request, clamav-0.97.8-1.mga2.src.rpm
21:45:54 <MrsB> oden built a new one
21:46:01 <wilcal> gotta learn how to do that
21:46:05 <MrsB> and thomas built one too just before that
21:46:23 <wilcal> been really involved in M4
21:46:28 * Luigi12_work will have a look at it
21:46:31 <MrsB> we'll get to it wilcal
21:46:37 <MrsB> thanks David
21:47:08 <MrsB> We might lean on you a bit next week
21:47:25 <Luigi12_work> you can try :o)  I'll be teaching again next week, so will be pretty busy
21:47:55 <MrsB> hi remyservices
21:48:14 <remyservices> Hello all
21:48:21 <MrsB> Is there anything else on this bit before we move on?
21:48:33 <MrsB> welcome to QA meeting remyservices
21:48:35 <wilcal> Not from here
21:49:01 <MrsB> I think that just leaves us with anything else, thanks for that Luigi12_work
21:49:09 <MrsB> #topic Anything else?
21:49:18 <wilcal> Not here
21:49:28 <Kernewes> no
21:49:37 <lewyssmith> We must have covered in advance evrything possible.
21:49:40 <wilcal> One comment after meeting closes
21:50:08 <lewyssmith> Why not now?
21:50:17 <MrsB> remyservices: do you want to add anything before we close?
21:50:23 <wilcal> Nothing to do with Mageia or QA
21:50:46 <remyservices> No, was trying to make my first meeting, guessing i translated the time wrong
21:51:00 <MrsB> lol it's ok, it's easily done!
21:51:10 <MrsB> are you thinking of joining us?
21:51:29 <lewyssmith> wilcal, OK. I'm off. goodbye all.
21:51:40 <MrsB> nite lewis
21:51:45 <Kernewes> nite lewis
21:52:01 <wilcal> nite a;;
21:52:05 <wilcal> all
21:52:09 <Kernewes> bye wilcal
21:52:10 <MrsB> nite wilcal
21:52:23 <MrsB> lets close and talk after
21:52:26 <MrsB> t-5
21:52:29 <MrsB> 4
21:52:31 <MrsB> 3
21:52:32 <MrsB> 2
21:52:34 <MrsB> 1
21:52:45 <Kernewes> bet you wish you could lift off and head for Mars now
21:52:47 <MrsB> Thanks for coming everybody! Same time next week :)
21:52:53 <MrsB> #endmeeting