20:06:26 <MrsB> #startmeeting 20:06:26 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Jan 16 20:06:26 2014 UTC. The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:06:26 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:06:38 <lewyssmith> It blanks quickly, a touch shows a fullscreen time, no idea what is happening. 20:06:41 <MrsB> Morning everybody again 20:06:50 <wilcal> Morn'n 20:06:58 <lewyssmith> Getting the real insqtall screen back is a mystery. 20:07:10 <MrsB> #topic Who's new? 20:07:18 <MrsB> Is there anybody new here today? 20:07:41 * MrsB looks at saptech 20:08:08 <MrsB> nope, he's gone :D 20:09:00 <MrsB> #topic What constitutes a proper upgrade? 20:09:09 <MrsB> wilcal, over to you :) 20:09:18 <wilcal> I'd like to post my proposal here goes 20:09:27 <wilcal> I would like to propose the following process on Version updates. 20:09:29 <wilcal> Take the M3 -> M4 update. Using the original M3 Classic Installer 20:09:30 <wilcal> create a new install with just that ISO and the default apps 20:09:32 <wilcal> that are installed. Using the latest version of the repo update 20:09:33 <wilcal> that M3 test install to the latest versions. Reboot back to a working 20:09:35 <wilcal> desktop. Add no additional apps. Using the M4 Classic Installer 20:09:36 <wilcal> update the M3 install to M4. Reboot system, set up the M4 repo, 20:09:38 <wilcal> execute updates, and do a final reboot of the system. That should 20:09:39 <wilcal> result in a working desktop. Should it not achieve a working desktop 20:09:41 <wilcal> a BUG report is generated and that BUG would be a blocking BUG for 20:09:42 <wilcal> the release of M4. If additional apps are added to the original M3 20:09:44 <wilcal> test install those apps should have BUG reports generated but 20:09:45 <wilcal> treated as normal BUGS and not release blocking BUGS. 20:10:09 <dvg> wilcal: been doing that for years :) 20:10:12 <MrsB> To a point, that's about right 20:10:29 <wilcal> I think we should all do it this way 20:10:40 <MrsB> If there is a bug which means upgrade can't proceed then it needs to be fixed 20:10:53 <MrsB> We also have to test online upgrades 20:11:05 <wilcal> But it must originate from the basic install to block 20:11:26 <wilcal> I for example Apache does not upgrade properly then that's a bug but not a blocker 20:11:29 <MrsB> #info killall mgaapplet && mgaapplet --testing to test online upgrades 20:11:47 <lewyssmith> Is not the original M3 upgrade huge? 20:12:02 <MrsB> pretty big 20:12:08 <marja> wilcal: what do you count as a "basic" install? 20:12:11 <wilcal> If you use the origional M3 ISO and upgrade that it is huge 20:12:13 <lewyssmith> It can often kill a system 20:12:29 <wilcal> Yes, but I did one lately and it worked fine 20:12:44 <wilcal> but update just the basic install 20:13:01 <Kernewes> wilcal: but you get lots of choices, so what's the default? 20:13:04 <MrsB> it depends what the bug is with apache though wilcal, if the upgrade con't complete because of a bug with apache then it needs to be fixed. If it just gives a warning or something then ideally it will be fixed but in theory we could update later. 20:13:34 <wilcal> In my case it was an RPM that was not on the M4 Classic Installer 20:13:40 <Luigi12_work> bug was it removing apache-mod_* packages that are not on the ISO, and it only affects ISO upgrades when you don't have access to the remote repositories 20:13:46 <wilcal> And that can be for many apps 20:14:03 <Luigi12_work> hypothetically, but hopefully not 20:14:08 <MrsB> In the past we've tried with various different packages installed. Usually use vbox for that, just take a snapshot, install some random 'stuff' then try the upgrade. Roll it back and start again with different random 'stuff' 20:14:18 <wilcal> I think you have to assume that initially you don't have the remote repo up when you upgrade 20:14:28 <wilcal> You only have the new media 20:14:37 <Luigi12_work> well it's just a different test case 20:14:47 <lewyssmith> I agree with the principle of starting with a virgin M3; but think that updating real *up-to-date* systems is also necessary. 20:15:07 <wilcal> You then run the risk of breaking it 20:15:08 <Luigi12_work> if there's a problem when you do have repo access that's a big problem. A probably with ISO-only, if it doesn't cause the upgrade to completely fail, is not a big deal 20:15:25 <wilcal> An ISO-ony upgrade, yes 20:15:39 <lewyssmith> i.e. use your current working system as the upgrade ref - SAVING IT FIRST. 20:16:20 <wilcal> Anyway a good discussion about it. There does not appear to be a big problems with M3 -> M4 now 20:16:22 <marja> lewyssmith: can you please #idea that 20:16:39 <lewyssmith> How? 20:16:54 <Luigi12_work> info isn't it? 20:17:05 <marja> lewyssmith: say it again, but put "#idea" before it 20:17:10 <dvg> current system always has customizations, so IMHO not a good reference 20:17:21 <lewyssmith> But a better test 20:17:28 <MrsB> more realistic yes 20:17:35 <MrsB> it's best to test various setups 20:17:43 <MrsB> be random about it 20:18:03 <MrsB> it should be the up to date packages though 20:18:20 <marja> Luigi12_work: I'm not sure that an #info works when you're not a chair, IINM #idea should 20:18:36 <lewyssmith> #idea: Use your working system as the upgrade test. SAVE IT FIRST, restore it afterwards. 20:18:38 <MrsB> info does for anybody, never tried idea 20:18:45 <marja> lewyssmith: thx 20:19:05 <lewyssmith> Use partclone etc for the save/restore 20:19:35 <MrsB> are we happy? 20:19:41 <wilcal> Yep 20:20:08 <MrsB> everybody know what they're doing? 20:20:21 <dvg> nothing ATM 20:20:25 <lewyssmith> Using Live Gnome DVD! 20:20:28 * mga4rcgazer never liked the idea of upgrading - rather start from clean install each time copying any own data from old system 20:20:46 <lewyssmith> Problem is all the extra apps. 20:21:08 <MrsB> lets move on then, missing Dave :) 20:21:18 <wilcal> I always start my upgrades with www.killdisk.com 20:21:18 <marja> :-/ 20:21:21 <lewyssmith> I had to fiddle/extend this M4 install to be able to use it. 20:21:30 <MrsB> #topic Mageia 4 RC & Mageia 3 Updated ISOs 20:21:50 <MrsB> So how are the ISOs 20:21:55 <lewyssmith> Hot water. 20:21:57 <wilcal> If anything test'n M4RC is exciting 20:22:03 <mga4rcgazer> lewyssmith: I use a post_install script for extras 'n stuff 20:22:10 * Luigi12_work has a note if we do mga3 updated ISOs 20:22:25 <wilcal> For me today M4RC KDE Live media is golden 20:22:26 <MrsB> ennael tmb here? 20:22:34 * tmb is here 20:22:36 <marja> KDE looks good... one laptop still boots into a black screen with the lives, though 20:22:50 <MrsB> who has intel/nvidia? 20:23:06 <wilcal> I'm doing everything so far in Vbox but will transition to real hardware in the next days 20:23:06 <Akien> I do 20:23:08 <marja> only intel here 20:23:17 <dvg> yup. GNOME DVD 64 bits Live black screen but kill X did trick: otherwise pretty good 20:23:18 <wilcal> I do have intel/nvidia 20:23:22 <MrsB> yep we need real iron now wilcal 20:23:29 <mga4rcgazer> intel atom here 20:23:41 <lewyssmith> I have AMD/ATI/Radeon, which is not straightforwrd 20:23:52 <MrsB> #info intel/nvidia.. 20:23:58 <marja> dvg: how did you manage to kill X? 20:24:03 <MrsB> #info <dvg> yup. GNOME DVD 64 bits Live black screen but kill X did trick: otherwise pretty good 20:24:13 <MrsB> akien any issues? 20:24:25 <dvg> tty2 and su -, ps aux |grep X, kill it 20:24:42 <dvg> prolly Alt + Ctrl + 2 x BS would have worked too 20:24:43 <Akien> MrsB: I booted the KDE LiveCD from yesterday, it went on quite nicely 20:24:44 <marja> dvg: ah, I had a hard lock... no ttys 20:25:04 <Akien> MrsB: Er no, actually I tried it on my other laptop with AMD chipset, so irrelevant 20:25:04 <MrsB> #info <Akien> I booted the KDE LiveCD from yesterday, it went on quite nicely 20:25:05 <lewyssmith> For x64 Live DVD, which is more important; KDE or Gnome, I cannot have both? 20:25:10 <MrsB> oh 20:25:12 <MrsB> #undo 20:25:12 <Inigo_Montoya`> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x8360f6c> 20:25:14 <Akien> I'll do some test on my intel/nvidia laptop tomorrow then 20:25:20 <MrsB> please, yes 20:25:39 <MrsB> old intel marja? 20:25:53 <marja> MrsB: indeed 20:26:16 <marja> MrsB: systemd.unit=multi-user.target leads to a working live, though 20:26:24 <MrsB> maybe similar to my one, acpi=off xdriver=vesa and then install kernel-linus and set it to intel again 20:26:43 <MrsB> ah ok 20:26:59 <marja> MrsB: I don't have the problem with traditional install, only with the Live 20:27:10 <dvg> and me 20:27:51 <lewyssmith> Is x32 full DVD OK now? 20:27:53 <MrsB> #info marja found a problem with gnome l10n but tmb thinks it's to do with the user dirs not being created and thinks he has a workaround 20:28:17 <MrsB> tmb did you fix meta-task ? 20:28:56 <dvg> could it be Dutch language related? 20:29:05 <dvg> I chose En and had all normal dirs 20:29:13 <marja> dvg: no, it is valid for French and Arab too 20:29:22 <dvg> odd 20:29:25 <marja> dvg: in Gnome?? 20:29:30 <dvg> yep 20:29:34 <MrsB> you had ~/Documents ~/Videos etc 20:29:39 <dvg> yep 20:29:51 <tmb> MrsB: I actually fixed it in drakx, as the mapping must stay in meta-task for desktops other then gnome 20:29:52 <MrsB> with lives? 20:29:57 <lewyssmith> I have all those with Welsh 20:30:01 <marja> MrsB: ah, you don't choose en_US, of course, but en_GB 20:30:09 <MrsB> yes 20:30:12 <dvg> so do I 20:30:30 <marja> dvg: did you pick en_US or en_GB? 20:30:40 <lewyssmith> Right & proper. 20:30:43 <MrsB> #info the 'remove half of gnome' bug should be fixed with next isos with new drakx 20:30:43 <dvg> always en_GB 20:31:13 <marja> dvg: and MrsB has the bug, and you don't ... I'm amazed 20:31:18 <ennael> back (sorry) 20:31:20 <dvg> sorry 20:31:31 <marja> dvg: np ;-) 20:31:35 <MrsB> i haven't checked lately marja 20:31:36 <marja> ennael: welcome back :-) 20:31:43 <MrsB> hi ennael :) 20:32:14 <MrsB> so can we say, apart from dvg having to kill X that live isos are better? 20:32:34 <MrsB> and gnome l10n 20:32:44 <lewyssmith> I will try KDE DVD tomorrow. 20:32:55 <marja> MrsB: if no one has an old laptop, then the black screen for mine doesn't count 20:32:58 <dvg> looking at my /home/<user> dir I see only one oddity: 20:33:14 <dvg> file .desktop is root:root owned 20:33:22 <dvg> instead of uid:uid 20:33:48 <dvg> might that break stg? 20:33:54 <lewyssmith> Seconded. 20:34:00 <marja> MrsB: but of course the Lives are better than they were! 20:34:10 <tmb> dvg: that's because its the dm that writes that file according to chosen desktop 20:34:10 <dvg> sure 20:34:29 <dvg> I mean: marja: sure 20:34:59 <dvg> but in rd 8 I only got to try one Live disk: no more time 20:35:09 <MrsB> do you think they're better enough, almost, to release as the RC? 20:35:32 <dvg> i cannot judge that. 20:35:34 <lewyssmith> Early to say. 20:35:54 <marja> MrsB: not Gnome 20:36:11 <MrsB> no, there are a few bits we should fix first, but hardware wise? 20:36:26 <dvg> with previous versions of Mageia there were also probs with shorewall(6) which did not stop release. for me it's a security risk bug # 11928 20:36:31 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11928 normal, release_blocker, bugsquad, NEW , M4RC After install shorewall6 cannot start, shorewall-ipv6-4.5.20-3 20:36:36 <wilcal> I think KDE Live is ready to release 20:36:53 <MrsB> yes, I'm not suggesting final release, I mean 4RC 20:37:02 <tmb> well, gnome isos needs a rebuild to fix the removing of half of gnome atleast 20:37:08 <MrsB> yep 20:37:16 <dvg> ah sure, RC is okay to do RC 20:37:22 <MrsB> What needs to be fixed for RC? 20:37:36 <lewyssmith> tmb's comment. 20:37:39 <MrsB> gnome l10n I would say and the remove half of gnome 20:37:40 <marja> Did anyone manage to set up wlan with gnome? 20:37:51 <dvg> yes 20:37:57 <marja> dvg: out of the box? 20:38:01 <dvg> but i never use nm 20:38:15 <dvg> i use wpa supplicant 20:38:26 <marja> dvg: you mean you remove it in gnome? 20:38:43 <dvg> I mean I glag the nm service as not active in summary 20:38:51 <dvg> s/glag/flag 20:39:19 <dvg> first time I had wifi it took me some time, now i know where to do what 20:39:23 <marja> dvg: that is not really "out of the box" :-/ 20:39:27 <dvg> true 20:39:36 <tmb> I did boot a laptop into gnome and connected it to my wlan (with intel 4965 wireless) 20:39:55 <dvg> but i have nonfree hardware 20:39:57 <marja> tmb: out of the box 20:39:58 <wilcal> fwiw I've been carry'n my M4 laptop to the library and use'n their WiFi and it works just fine 20:40:22 <MrsB> now that's commitment :) 20:40:28 <tmb> marja: well, I needed to select wich ssid to connect to, but that was all 20:40:59 <wilcal> I can also stream live through Ustream with it and that on WiFI 20:41:21 <marja> tmb: the gnome tool didn't see any networks 20:41:31 <MrsB> the one at the top marja? 20:41:47 <tmb> I connected with the drakx one :) 20:41:53 <marja> the draktool failed (undoubtedy because I didn't remove NM) 20:41:55 <marja> MrsB: yes 20:42:35 <MrsB> the one in the top panel is networkmanager, it conflicts with drakx one, so should be disabled. It only enables if told it can do. 20:42:38 <dvg> I use drakxtool on top of wpa, without nm and that works if I have the nonfree driver for realtek 20:43:05 <tmb> I dont know if anyone noticed yet, but I added mcc to gnome launcher too to help find it ... 20:43:06 <MrsB> it's disabled by default, or should be 20:43:17 <dvg> tmb: yes thanks 20:43:21 <MrsB> i noticed yes thanks, can clsoe that bug now :) 20:43:31 <lewyssmith> I saw it. 20:43:44 <lewyssmith> And it works. 20:43:45 <marja> MrsB: ah, then I screwed it up by first trying to connect over it 20:44:01 <MrsB> it usually says its 'Unmanaged' marja 20:44:03 <marja> MrsB: it is the first Networking tool you see, when starting Gnome 20:44:10 <MrsB> or 'Managed' can't remember which 20:44:17 <MrsB> i know, it's confusing 20:44:58 <marja> marja: for myself, I don't care, I just don't think Gnome is in a good enough shape to distribute without warning 20:45:12 <tmb> yeah, the debate once was if we should disable drakx-net on gnome installs and go with nm, but since that too is a works for some and not for others, it was not done 20:45:24 <wilcal> Gnome's in tough shape - still 20:45:49 <dvg> i've seen warning galore about nm years ago, and it helped me then and still does 20:45:59 <marja> well, I'm glad it all works perfect in KDE now :-) 20:46:25 <marja> not nm in KDE, but WLAN 20:46:46 <MrsB> #info There is still confusion about NM & drakx in Gnome. drakx one is hidden at the bottom and used, nm is at the top and not used. 20:47:14 <dvg> or 'drakroam' 20:47:18 <MrsB> So what about classic isos? 20:47:23 <dvg> fine 20:47:40 <MrsB> anybody tried the dual yet? 20:47:47 <marja> MrsB: ah, I thought there were new ones on the way 20:47:51 <mga4rcgazer> ues 20:47:53 <dvg> sorry, i dont see the purpose of it 20:48:02 <marja> MrsB: no, but I intend to 20:48:08 <MrsB> yes, there might be marja 20:48:13 <mga4rcgazer> no joy installing dual: problem with getting graphics working 20:48:31 <MrsB> what graphics mga4rcgazer? 20:48:45 <mga4rcgazer> on acer aspire one netbook with poulsbo graphics 20:49:05 <MrsB> that's old intel again isn't it? 20:49:13 <mga4rcgazer> yes 20:49:16 <tmb> yeah, poulsbo is a problematic hw 20:49:38 <mga4rcgazer> the test iso is working 20:49:47 <MrsB> in general tmb or just for us? 20:49:50 <mga4rcgazer> (using it right here) 20:50:08 <tmb> first intel went non-free only with separate drm stack and so on... but then Alan Cox finally started merging bits upstream 20:50:13 <tmb> MrsB: in general 20:50:32 <MrsB> what was different in the test iso? 20:50:37 <tmb> but since Intel does not care about old hw, it does not get much attention 20:50:45 <tmb> mga4rcgazer: witch test iso ? 20:50:58 <MrsB> the internal one i think 20:51:19 <mga4rcgazer> two ticks..will ssh to bos with the iso and get name 20:51:32 <tmb> I mean I had 3 ones before I released the ones with fixes by colin 20:51:37 <MrsB> ok sry 20:51:57 <mga4rcgazer> Mageia-4-RC-test-LiveCD-KDE4-int-i586-CD/ 20:52:25 <mga4rcgazer> $ cat Mageia-4-RC-test-LiveCD-KDE4-int-i586-CD/DATE.txt 20:52:25 <mga4rcgazer> Sat Jan 11 23:20:00 CET 2014 20:55:29 <tmb> ok, so the one with no service_harddrake running at all 20:56:08 <mga4rcgazer> how to verify? 20:56:32 <tmb> that means our probing is wrong ... can you pastebin lspcidrake -v for that one so I can see where we map it 20:56:43 <mga4rcgazer> will do 20:57:38 <MrsB> anybody else any issues with the classic isos? 20:58:11 <marja> one that will be fixed in next round 20:58:15 <wilcal> I note any issues in etherpad 20:58:18 <dvg> smaller ones as per pad (and shorewall again, of course) 20:58:54 <lewyssmith> marja, what was yours? 20:58:54 <mga4rcgazer> tmb: http://pastebin.com/RwTn2B6h 20:58:56 <MrsB> yep, that's what i foudn too. Nothing major enough to stop release. 20:59:10 <MrsB> could somebody volunteer to check dualdvd? 20:59:18 <marja> lewyssmith: diskdrake in installer crashing when checking the contents of a partition 20:59:33 <marja> MrsB: when the new isos are there, not now 20:59:42 <MrsB> ok, great :) 20:59:54 <marja> lewyssmith: and stopping the installation 21:00:00 <MrsB> I think we probably have one more round of isos to go 21:00:03 <lewyssmith> marja, is this inevitable? 21:00:27 <marja> lewyssmith: it is fixed ... the fix will be in next isos 21:00:33 <wilcal> Yep, at least on Gnome 21:00:45 <lewyssmith> So I shall await thta. Thanks. 21:00:54 <tmb> mga4rcgazer: thanks 21:01:30 <mga4rcgazer> de rein 21:01:38 <MrsB> ennael tmb, any thoughts to add ? 21:02:03 <tmb> nope, not for now 21:03:10 <marja> how is decided what will be the default DE in traditional installer.... or is that at random? 21:03:30 <lewyssmith> Seems to be always KDE. 21:03:33 <marja> I've seen KDE at times, Gnome at other times 21:03:47 <marja> lewyssmith: last time I did a traditional install it was Gnome 21:04:02 <lewyssmith> Hard luck. 21:04:05 <wilcal> I think Mandrake originally was KDE 21:04:06 <ennael> sorry phone... 21:04:30 <wilcal> Mandriva 1st GUI was KDE 21:04:47 <MrsB> it's always kde, but i think mainly because it needs to be soemthing. A rather good feature proposal from somebody :) was to give more choice on the initial screen and not pre-select one by default. It ran out steam though, djennings was working on it 21:04:58 <mga4rcgazer> xfce is nice and light 21:05:11 <Luigi12_work> yeah whatever happened to djennings? 21:05:26 <lewyssmith> mga4rcgazer, Try Mate. 21:05:29 <marja> MrsB: it is not always KDE, but it may have been Mga3 where I just saw Gnome 21:05:51 <MrsB> i'm not sure, Luigi12_work, he disappeared 21:06:05 <MrsB> shame as he was just finding his feet 21:06:13 <marja> :-/ 21:06:14 <dvg> in Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia I have always seen default KDE 21:06:28 <Kernewes> they have always been known as KDE distros 21:06:47 <marja> dvg: I was talking about Mageia ;-) 21:06:58 <dvg> me too :) 21:07:09 <marja> dvg: :-) 21:07:10 <lewyssmith> But I switched from KDE to Gnome2 under Mandrake etc. 21:07:12 <dvg> it also has a prehistory 21:07:39 <MrsB> i did that too lewis, then back to kde later 21:08:10 * marja too, used Gnome only for about half a year or a year 21:08:11 <ennael> sorry any decision about RC ? 21:08:15 <MrsB> i like the new ones too, mate, cinnamon, razor 21:08:18 * ennael is lagging 21:08:37 <MrsB> ennael: yes, we're waiting for your new ones and soem fixes from tmb 21:08:50 <wilcal> Cinnamon has a big user base with Mint 21:08:52 <MrsB> i think this should be the last set 21:09:10 <Kernewes> wilcal: Mint help with Mate as well I think 21:09:10 <marja> MrsB: yes! \o/ 21:09:44 <ennael> ok I will build new isos tonight including very last stage2 21:09:52 <MrsB> woohoo! 21:09:54 <marja> ennael: nice :-) 21:09:55 <wilcal> Thks 21:10:08 <lewyssmith> Look forward. 21:10:10 <ennael> syslinux is not fixed at the moment as debugging take a lot of time and this will help later automatic tests also 21:10:10 <marja> ennael: do you mind doing a new docteam one, as well? 21:10:29 <ennael> so we will release RC with localboot buggy but fixed for final release 21:10:36 <ennael> it will avoid too much delay 21:10:42 <MrsB> what is new in new isos then? 21:10:49 <MrsB> they're pretty ok atm 21:11:00 <MrsB> apart from some intel support 21:11:03 <ennael> the bug on diskdrake that moves all the partitions 21:11:09 <MrsB> oh ok 21:11:32 <mga4rcgazer> lewyssmith: using mate already but it;s much bigger than xfce 21:11:50 <lewyssmith> Fast, though. 21:11:59 <MrsB> #info there should be new classic isos overnight with fixed diskdrake, it could move partitions before 21:12:04 <ennael> thanks again for your patience :) 21:12:11 <MrsB> tmb what are your plans? 21:13:23 <ennael> (sleep :) ) 21:13:28 <marja> :-) 21:13:32 <MrsB> lol for days probably 21:13:47 <mga4rcgazer> lewyssmith: total size of installed xfce rpms is 19848256, and mate is 288408872 21:13:56 <tmb> well, I'm waiting for ennael to decide when to sync / build, and I will build against same tree 21:14:15 <lewyssmith> mga4rcgazer, I noticed it was big... 21:14:15 <MrsB> #info there should be new live's overnight too 21:14:42 <ennael> tmb: do you plan a new sync of the local repo ? 21:15:07 <MrsB> #info we *think*hope* these will be the last set and will cry if not 21:15:09 <lewyssmith> mga4rcgazer, but that difference is huge. Thanks for the info. 21:16:11 <MrsB> ennael: tmb are we still thinking we may need to delay final? 21:16:31 <tmb> ennael: well I thougt you wanted to sync in drakx that tv just pushed ... 21:16:36 <wilcal> I am already agreeing on that. Take the pressure off 21:16:53 <ennael> tmb: was yesterday :) but I see a new one tonight 21:16:57 <MrsB> you wouldn't get off that easy wilcal ;) 21:17:21 <MrsB> I'd just like to say a word about what has been discussed 21:17:42 <wilcal> M4 KDE 64-bit is play'n nicely on my laptop 21:17:46 <MrsB> If it's decided that we need to delay final, we'll try and make that decision early 21:18:24 <MrsB> IF that is necessary we'll try and build new mga3 isos in time for fosdem instead 21:18:44 <MrsB> did you get that dvg_i? 21:19:04 <dvg> i see what you say. from 2 sides 21:19:11 <MrsB> ahh lol 21:19:47 <MrsB> so IF it's necessary mga3 isos will need to go through the same ISO testing as we've been doing for mga4 21:20:03 <lewyssmith> This weekend should let us know. 21:20:20 <MrsB> In any event, at some stage we'd like to release updated mga3 isos 21:21:08 <MrsB> I hope we'll be able to release the RC tomorrow, if we can get tests and *touch wood* everything is ok, then we should be able to 21:21:30 <lewyssmith> Not Monday? 21:21:41 <MrsB> we're running out of time :\ 21:22:32 <MrsB> So please evrybody have a good go at the next isos, with any luck at all, they should be our last for 4RC 21:22:42 <lewyssmith> No way to update, make media, install, test anyhgting by tomorrow. 21:22:57 <lewyssmith> Let alone the whole lot. 21:22:58 <wilcal> I have a mostly empty weekend 21:23:15 <lewyssmith> That's after tomorrow. 21:23:17 <MrsB> we'll play it by ear then, but please push to get them tested, we're way behind now 21:23:55 <tmb> yep 21:24:10 <lewyssmith> If the RCs are good, the release is easy. 21:24:26 <MrsB> yes, hopefully they will be now 21:24:50 <MrsB> Everybody Ok then? Anything else to say while we're on mga4 ? 21:24:53 <marja> oops... I forgot about the missing initrd on 32bits classical..... does that only happen ot me? 21:24:55 <wilcal> I'm good 21:25:20 <MrsB> will have to test it marja, i don't remember getting it wih the last one i did 21:25:37 <lewyssmith> marja, That's the one that interests me. Tell more. 21:25:40 <marja> I mean, while upgrading, not while freshly installing 21:25:48 <lewyssmith> OK. 21:26:13 <MrsB> #info marja found that it was missing initrd after upgrade with 32bit dvd 21:26:45 <MrsB> Anything else before we move on? 21:26:52 <marja> lewyssmith: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11827 21:26:56 <[mbot> Bug 11827: normal, Normal, bugsquad, REOPENED , initrd missing for newest kernel after upgrading with 32-bits iso (was: kernel panic when booting into 4beta-pre2 upgraded system) 21:27:23 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11827 21:27:29 <[mbot> Bug 11827: normal, Normal, bugsquad, REOPENED , initrd missing for newest kernel after upgrading with 32-bits iso (was: kernel panic when booting into 4beta-pre2 upgraded system) 21:27:46 <MrsB> #topic The huge list of updates waiting to be tested.. 21:28:03 <wilcal> Sooooo many 21:28:07 <MrsB> Hopefully next week we'll be able to dig into this lot 21:28:21 <MrsB> we'll have approx 1 week to clear as much as humanly possible 21:28:26 <wilcal> Hopefully 21:28:28 <MrsB> then we'll be iso testing again 21:29:07 <MrsB> We can't afford to start mga4 with a backlog for mga3 as there is always a rush of updates following release 21:30:02 <MrsB> There have been calls for help on discuss ML and marja asked doc team to help out too 21:30:37 <MrsB> if we can't get the assistance though we'll need to look at reducing the workload 21:30:46 <lewyssmith> We have 2 weeks to M4. The next RC isos should see us there. 21:31:30 <MrsB> one week testing updates, one week testing isos (probably) 21:31:30 <wilcal> I'm on an airplane the morning of the 29th California time 21:31:46 <Kernewes> I'll see what I can do, but at the moment it depends on how I feel from one day to the next 21:32:06 <Kernewes> even looking at those couple of updates at the weekend made me really tired 21:32:26 <marja> Kernewes: ouch... hope you'll recover well and soon 21:32:54 <MrsB> #info If we have to reduce the workload to get back on top of the updates backlog we will need to limit our testing to making sure the packages update ok withou ttoo much of anything else. 21:33:16 <wilcal> Agreed 21:33:21 <MrsB> thats is far from ideal though 21:33:38 <wilcal> Do no harm rule 21:33:56 <Kernewes> marja: not very likely, it's almost certainly chronic fatigue syndrome 21:34:12 <marja> Kernewes: ouch! 21:34:17 <MrsB> #info not somethign we want to do or would do lightly 21:34:18 <Kernewes> marja: and it seems I've had it since I was a teenager and it's got a lot worse lately 21:34:35 <MrsB> Kernewes: :( 21:34:36 <Kernewes> marja: the joys of getting old :( 21:34:49 <Kernewes> the day job is very tiring too 21:34:50 <marja> Kernewes: :-/ 21:34:54 <MrsB> I've been getting really bad dizzy spellsthis week 21:35:12 <Kernewes> MrsB: heck, you can't be ill, how would we manage? 21:35:13 <marja> MrsB: you've worked too hard, I bet 21:35:20 <MrsB> too much time sat here I expect 21:35:33 <lewyssmith> Certs. 21:35:55 <MrsB> and I offiicially have mild carpal tunnel, found out today 21:36:18 <MrsB> doesn'tfeel very flaming mild when it flares up thoug 21:36:23 <lewyssmith> I had a bike accident last week that should have put me in hospital. 21:36:28 <MrsB> ouch! 21:36:36 <marja> MrsB: ah, I thought it was already official a long time ago 21:36:42 <Kernewes> MrsB: occupational hazard for typists 21:37:03 <lewyssmith> Road v face, face always looses. 21:37:16 <Kernewes> MrsB: these "experts" who call things mild obviously don't have to live with them 21:37:18 <MrsB> had the tests doen this afternoon so now the doctor can feel safe in telling me what he can't do for me 21:37:44 <MrsB> we're a healthy bunch aren't we 21:37:46 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: how did that happen? 21:38:00 <lewyssmith> Jusdt a bicycle crash. 21:38:07 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: "just" 21:38:13 <marja> MrsB: ah, it is "mild" that is official now, while the carpal tunnel already was official before? 21:38:17 <MrsB> no alcohol involved lewis? 21:38:26 <diogenese> Yes, we *cough cough* are :) 21:38:37 <lewyssmith> No. I look like something out of a Hammer film. 21:38:45 <MrsB> yes it's been officially diagnosed by clinical people now marja 21:38:46 * marja thinks she's the only one healthy around 21:38:59 <lewyssmith> And Dave? 21:39:00 <Kernewes> marja: stick with us, we'll change that for you :) 21:39:11 <MrsB> Dave has uveitis (sp?) 21:39:24 <Kernewes> he's had that a while now 21:39:24 <marja> Kernewes: no need, I get my share through my daughter 21:39:30 <Kernewes> marja: :) 21:39:38 <lewyssmith> MrsB, What's that? 21:39:39 <Kernewes> how's Led43 doing these days? 21:39:51 <Kernewes> lewyssmith: some sort ofinflammation in the eyes 21:39:59 <marja> Kernewes: he didn't reply in a pm in which I asked 21:40:00 <Luigi12_work> MrsB: if we need to do updated mga3 ISOs, we'll need to push an update for the timezone package first, to fix the same issue I recently fixed in Cauldron that was breaking some new installations 21:40:14 <MrsB> he suffers seasonlly affected disorder too and can't use his special lights due to his eyes so he's not doing too well. He was 'seeing' a doctor today too 21:40:48 <Kernewes> well on a brighter note, at least my depression is better 21:40:54 <MrsB> Yay :) 21:41:09 <Kernewes> the eczema isn't great but could be worse 21:41:10 <marja> Luigi12_work: IIUC sooner or later, an updated Mga3 ISO will get done... the discussion was only about for Fosdem or not 21:41:24 <Kernewes> sorry, are we still in the meeting? 21:41:32 <marja> Luigi12_work: so I guess the timezone package can be added to the updates :-/ 21:41:36 <Luigi12_work> well whenever, we'll need to update timezone before making new mga3 ISOs 21:41:39 <MrsB> #info if we do updated mga3 isos we'll need a new timezone package first as it was breaking soem installs, just been fixed in cauldron 21:41:40 <marja> Kernewes: yes, we are 21:41:41 <Kernewes> I see to have taken us way off topic 21:41:44 <Kernewes> seem 21:42:02 * Luigi12_work had a long phone call and thought he was going to miss the roundup 21:42:12 <marja> Kernewes: we're tired, so staying on topic is harder 21:42:35 <wilcal> Too many ISO's :-) 21:42:45 <MrsB> So guys to sum up, we're all a bit roughand pretty tired, but we have loooooads of updates to test next week so please do all you can to test them :) 21:43:04 <lewyssmith> wilcal, Seconded. 21:43:19 <wilcal> Will do 21:43:30 <MrsB> thankyou :) 21:43:43 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's Roundup 21:43:48 <Luigi12_work> boo 21:43:52 <MrsB> :D 21:43:55 <MrsB> over to you 21:43:58 <wilcal> Hi ya Luigi 21:44:00 <lewyssmith> Croeso. 21:44:03 <Kernewes> hi 21:44:19 <Luigi12_work> so I don't have really anything to add from last time's roundup, other than we're working on updates for java and cups, just waiting for pushes in Cauldron before assigning the mga3 updates to QA 21:44:41 <MrsB> #info java and cups updates are coming ut nothing much more to add 21:44:55 <MrsB> that was too easy, what's the catch? 21:45:04 <wilcal> Did the avclam get pushed 21:45:10 <Luigi12_work> the catch is QA already has 33 update candidates? :o) 21:45:16 <MrsB> yeah :\ 21:45:44 <MrsB> would you mind adding an advisory for clamav on bug 11288 21:45:48 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11288 normal, Normal, qa-bugs, ASSIGNED , clamav update request, clamav-0.97.8-1.mga2.src.rpm 21:45:54 <MrsB> oden built a new one 21:46:01 <wilcal> gotta learn how to do that 21:46:05 <MrsB> and thomas built one too just before that 21:46:23 <wilcal> been really involved in M4 21:46:28 * Luigi12_work will have a look at it 21:46:31 <MrsB> we'll get to it wilcal 21:46:37 <MrsB> thanks David 21:47:08 <MrsB> We might lean on you a bit next week 21:47:25 <Luigi12_work> you can try :o) I'll be teaching again next week, so will be pretty busy 21:47:55 <MrsB> hi remyservices 21:48:14 <remyservices> Hello all 21:48:21 <MrsB> Is there anything else on this bit before we move on? 21:48:33 <MrsB> welcome to QA meeting remyservices 21:48:35 <wilcal> Not from here 21:49:01 <MrsB> I think that just leaves us with anything else, thanks for that Luigi12_work 21:49:09 <MrsB> #topic Anything else? 21:49:18 <wilcal> Not here 21:49:28 <Kernewes> no 21:49:37 <lewyssmith> We must have covered in advance evrything possible. 21:49:40 <wilcal> One comment after meeting closes 21:50:08 <lewyssmith> Why not now? 21:50:17 <MrsB> remyservices: do you want to add anything before we close? 21:50:23 <wilcal> Nothing to do with Mageia or QA 21:50:46 <remyservices> No, was trying to make my first meeting, guessing i translated the time wrong 21:51:00 <MrsB> lol it's ok, it's easily done! 21:51:10 <MrsB> are you thinking of joining us? 21:51:29 <lewyssmith> wilcal, OK. I'm off. goodbye all. 21:51:40 <MrsB> nite lewis 21:51:45 <Kernewes> nite lewis 21:52:01 <wilcal> nite a;; 21:52:05 <wilcal> all 21:52:09 <Kernewes> bye wilcal 21:52:10 <MrsB> nite wilcal 21:52:23 <MrsB> lets close and talk after 21:52:26 <MrsB> t-5 21:52:29 <MrsB> 4 21:52:31 <MrsB> 3 21:52:32 <MrsB> 2 21:52:34 <MrsB> 1 21:52:45 <Kernewes> bet you wish you could lift off and head for Mars now 21:52:47 <MrsB> Thanks for coming everybody! Same time next week :) 21:52:53 <MrsB> #endmeeting