20:04:40 <MrsB> #startmeeting
20:04:40 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Nov  7 20:04:40 2013 UTC.  The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:04:40 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:05:04 <MrsB> Morning all, welcome to another meeting
20:05:13 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins
20:05:13 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB
20:05:19 <DavidWHodgins> #topics Who's
20:05:22 <MrsB> #topic Who's new?
20:05:23 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's
20:05:26 <MrsB> #topic Who's new?
20:05:29 <MrsB> :P
20:05:32 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:05:41 <MrsB> Is there anybody new today?
20:05:52 <dvg> isos?
20:06:06 <MrsB> we sent them back though
20:06:07 <lewyssmith> [Several a day]
20:06:10 <MrsB> nobody new
20:06:19 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Beta1
20:06:23 <MrsB> thanks :)
20:06:30 <MrsB> Sooooo
20:06:44 <MrsB> hows it going?
20:07:03 <wilcal> Wow we could talk all afternoon
20:07:05 <Tonyb> As we speak I've dorsync'ed and just got past the mount stall-point
20:07:11 <DavidWHodgins> This is why I was so against the network renaming. While the changes are almost working for the network renaming, it's causing lot's of other problems.
20:07:17 <MrsB> we've gone backwards from the alpha imho. Lots of issues.
20:07:18 <lewyssmith> I hope this is not going public. I think we should abandon it & await Beta2
20:07:31 <lewyssmith> Too many
20:07:41 <dvg> and pity the isos are not named consistently
20:07:50 <MrsB> it makes our job particularly difficult as we have to try and keep track of everything
20:07:52 <wilcal> I've been work'n 32-bit KDE Live-CD and things are going well for me today
20:08:03 <DavidWHodgins> The kde live iso images are ready for release, but that's it.
20:08:11 <lewyssmith> You seem to be alone
20:08:11 <MrsB> Yes dvg, thought that might have been fixed :\
20:08:22 <wilcal> I agree David they look pretty good here
20:08:37 <wilcal> Finally fixed the network thingy
20:08:38 <MrsB> #info the classic DVD folder names are wrong on the rsync
20:08:56 <MrsB> #info kde live iso images are OK \o/
20:09:05 <MrsB> #info everything else isn't
20:09:08 <wilcal> Yep
20:09:15 <Tonyb> DWH saved me from download pain. Thanks
20:09:21 <lewyssmith> I still have to try the EFI one
20:09:22 <DavidWHodgins> Gnome live fail to add media on first boot after install. The classic fails to load needed kernel modules, and if any partitions are found that it cannot mount, the install is blocked.
20:09:27 <wilcal> Are we looking at another week?
20:09:34 <MrsB> I did email about the folder names this morning, are they still like that?
20:09:40 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
20:09:43 <MrsB> :\
20:09:46 <MrsB> ennael:  ping
20:09:49 <Tonyb> Yes, as of half an hour ago
20:10:01 <MrsB> tmb: ping
20:10:37 <wilcal> I think we should turn loose the KDE Live-CD/DVD's
20:11:04 <lewyssmith> I'll take your word for it
20:11:14 <lewyssmith> And Dave's
20:11:16 <MrsB> kde lives are in good shape
20:11:28 <lewyssmith> And claire's
20:11:34 <MrsB> so many issues with the rest though it's hard to know where to begin
20:11:50 <wilcal> I'd like to look more in depth at some of the apps
20:11:58 <MrsB> Can you all please make sure there are bugs existing/created for anything you've found
20:12:15 <DavidWHodgins> With the classical, there are two main issues. Kernel modules not getting loaded, and the install stopping if it finds any filesystem it cannot mount.
20:12:29 <lewyssmith> But why cannot it?
20:12:36 <MrsB> wilcal: that's the problem now, we should be doing things like that, and starting upgrade tests but we're still struggling with the basics :\
20:12:45 <DavidWHodgins> Because of the changes made to handle the network renaming.
20:13:03 <lewyssmith> Mounting filesystems?
20:13:17 <MrsB> ext3 issues was resolved in the last isos
20:13:24 <DavidWHodgins> The vfat and ntfs modules are not loaded, or available, by time stage 2 starts.
20:13:30 <MrsB> oh
20:13:42 <DavidWHodgins> Same with the sound card modules
20:13:51 <MrsB> also network 'not configured' and now also sound card 'not configured'
20:14:01 <Tonyb> my classic DVD just dorsync'ed got past the mount-block just now
20:14:10 <DavidWHodgins> All of the device problems are cause by the changes to handle the network interface renaming.
20:14:55 <DavidWHodgins> Tonyb: That was an ext3 filesystem?
20:15:05 <MrsB> I noticed a gnoem liveiso removing wifi firmware which was in use when it removed unused packages in install
20:15:14 <DavidWHodgins> Ouch
20:15:20 <Tonyb> I've forgotton - might have been ext4
20:15:25 <lewyssmith> I have also keyboard blockers; need to bug them
20:15:29 <MrsB> yep, not sure if it's just gnome though, likely to be all of them
20:15:39 <Tonyb> I've tried swapping it back and forward so many times
20:16:09 <MrsB> lewis, keyboard blockers?
20:16:18 <lewyssmith> See the PAD
20:16:26 <MrsB> there are 400 lines
20:16:52 <lewyssmith> 1] Cymraeg -> no k/b screen
20:17:04 <dvg> 529
20:17:06 <DavidWHodgins> The live isos are ok, except for the online media getting added in first boot after install. The classical installers are badly broken, due to the kernel modules not being loaded.
20:17:15 <MrsB> #info pad has over 500 lines
20:17:23 <lewyssmith> 2] Language/keyboard mix via 'more' does not rise back to parent k/b screen
20:17:44 <lewyssmith> which now has pre-selections
20:18:16 <MrsB> be sure to bug that one yes, i'll try and remember to give it a go
20:18:16 <lewyssmith> related to language
20:18:42 <lewyssmith> It's easy. 400 lines - but coloured!
20:19:11 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Given that the changes for the network interface renaming are what has completly broken the classical installers, can we now back out that "feature"?
20:19:30 <MrsB> or fix the installer :)
20:20:11 <ennael> pong
20:20:17 <MrsB> Hi
20:20:34 <lewyssmith> Can I 'bug' the fact that Live installs block on *my* box due to video?
20:20:41 <MrsB> Could you rename the DVD folders please, they are missing -DVD on the end
20:20:41 <tmb> headsup, I,ve moved classic DVDs to correct names and symlinked the wrong ones
20:20:51 <MrsB> ahh nice, thanks tmb
20:21:00 <Tonyb> Har far are we along the road of network renaming; is it more work to back out??
20:21:10 <MrsB> #info classic dvd folder names are now fixed
20:21:15 <ennael> sorry miss that this morning before leaving home
20:21:19 <Luigi12_work> using boot.iso the installer worked fine for me, network worked fine, etc
20:21:26 <ennael> (oups meeting in progress sorry)
20:21:39 <MrsB> we're talking about beta1 though
20:21:48 <Luigi12_work> it's the same installer code
20:22:01 <Luigi12_work> so I don't see that the network renaming is the cause of whatever issues the DVD has
20:22:11 <MrsB> wired, classic isos are broken, network and sound card
20:22:16 <MrsB> wierd*
20:22:27 <DavidWHodgins> Then why is the classical installer failing to load modules needed for vfat filesystems, sound cards, and some keyboards?
20:22:44 <MrsB> that explains why i keep losing my keyboard maybe
20:22:50 <Luigi12_work> DavidWHodgins: I did a fresh install, not an upgrade, so I can't speak to the filesystem issues
20:23:03 <lewyssmith> It happens on Intsall
20:23:04 <DavidWHodgins> This is a fresh install.
20:23:11 <Luigi12_work> but for the network issues, which I didn't see, sounds like something specific to the DVD is going wrong
20:23:20 <MrsB> ennael: main issue with installer is the module loading
20:23:54 <DavidWHodgins> It sees a vfat filesystem, that is not being used during the install, and adds it to fstab as /media/win_c, but the install stops, because it cannot mount it, because the vfat module is not available.
20:24:00 <Luigi12_work> ok to be more clear, I did a fresh install on VM, so no existing filesystems
20:24:14 <ennael> MrsB: let me check if we have last stage2 in dual
20:24:20 <Luigi12_work> I won't be able to try an install on real hardware for a few more weeks
20:24:22 <lewyssmith> DWH has said it precisely
20:24:39 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: This happens on the i586 and x86_64 dvd isos too.
20:25:08 <ennael> but if I remember well the last fix was rather about ext3 mount
20:25:16 <MrsB> ennael: it's not just dual, it's all classic. ext3 is fixed but sound card, network and i just heard that keyboard for some too
20:25:43 <lewyssmith> The keyboard is at the 'choice' stage
20:26:21 <tmb> seems we have a messed up tree  on the classical isos, I'll check if primary mirror have same mess....
20:26:41 <DavidWHodgins> network in the classic is fixed, but it still fails to add online media.
20:26:49 <MrsB> network isn't fixed for me
20:26:53 <ennael> tmb: why so ?
20:27:02 <ennael> wait
20:27:12 <ennael> some say it's ok with the network
20:27:13 <ennael> some not
20:27:38 <DavidWHodgins> I was using a wired interface, with manual configuration.
20:27:51 <tmb> ennael: we have isolinux/i386/i586, with newer files in i586
20:28:17 <MrsB> At the summary stage it says 'not configured' same for sound card. When configuring manually, it fails the connection test and then later doesn't offer to install any updates.
20:28:59 <DavidWHodgins> On my system, in my latest test, the connection test worked, but it still failed to add online media.
20:29:19 <MrsB> are you talking live or classic dave?
20:29:29 <DavidWHodgins> May be that the module needed for my nic is included, but the module needed for yours is not. x86_64 dvd
20:29:39 <wilcal> Can you manually add media?
20:29:55 <MrsB> I've had the same on 3 different systems :(
20:29:58 <DavidWHodgins> After rebooting into the installed system, yes.
20:30:02 <tmb> ennael: something is broken in bcd build, primary mirror tree is clean
20:30:23 <ennael> sorry I just cannot follow all of you at the same time...
20:30:32 <DavidWHodgins> This is under vb. On real hardware, I'm blocked by the vfat problem.
20:30:53 <ennael> tmb: what about the tree pb ? on which piece have you seen pb ?
20:31:05 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: The networking seems to be fixed under vb, but not on real hardware.
20:31:25 <DavidWHodgins> Again, likely due to modules not being loaded.
20:31:25 <Luigi12_work> ahh, that could be why it worked for me, since I was in VMWare
20:31:38 <MrsB> mien is all on real hw
20:31:48 <lewyssmith> Ditto
20:32:19 <DavidWHodgins> I was blocked from installing on real hardware, by the vfat problem, so tested under vb, just to see if the networking was fixed.
20:32:39 <MrsB> ok, so  definitely a modules thing then
20:32:52 <DavidWHodgins> Most likely.
20:33:00 <tmb> ennael: the 32bit DVD has older kernel/initrd
20:34:01 <tmb> ennael: the newer kernel/initrd is in isolinux/i386/i586
20:34:44 <ennael> ok got it... my scripts went bad
20:35:24 <MrsB> module version mismatch?
20:36:17 <ennael> nope iso build script
20:36:46 <MrsB> there is hope  \o/
20:37:09 <MrsB> Let's wrap up the meeting and continue with this afterwards
20:37:18 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Double check the directory names
20:37:21 <wilcal> lots of issues there
20:37:32 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's Roundup
20:37:45 * MrsB saw a Luigi a moment ago
20:38:16 <MrsB> Luigi12_work: your turn :)
20:38:48 <Luigi12_work> just a min
20:39:18 <MrsB> The kernels are waiting to be updated again aren't they (can't remember). I'll assign them to tmb for now if so
20:39:42 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: They were updated a few days ago, I think.
20:40:37 <MrsB> no new package lists so I guess they're not ready yet
20:40:39 <wrw105> I"m looking at chromium x86_64 as we type....
20:40:45 <MrsB> hi wrw105
20:40:49 <Luigi12_work> ok I'm back
20:40:52 <wrw105> Hi, MrsB!
20:40:58 <MrsB> :)
20:41:20 <MrsB> where did all these updates come from..
20:41:48 <Luigi12_work> so roundcubemail is a high severity one, and gnutls and graphicsmagick are moderate.  chromium-browser isn't marked as high, but probably should be treated as such, as usual.
20:41:59 <Luigi12_work> wireshark the severity is unknown
20:42:01 <tmb> nope, I was about to update the kernel status when I got work of another regression and some data corruption, so I have rebuild almost all kernels again :/
20:42:14 <MrsB> it's ok tmb, no rush!
20:42:25 <Luigi12_work> pmake is just another one of those predictable tmpfile names / possible symlink attack things
20:42:32 <MrsB> #info roundcubemail is a high severity one, and gnutls and graphicsmagick are moderate.  chromium-browser isn't marked as high, but probably should be treated as such, as usual.
20:42:48 <MrsB> #info pmake is just another one of those predictable tmpfile names / possible symlink attack things
20:42:53 <MrsB> seem to get a few of those
20:43:09 <Luigi12_work> probably need to assign the mariadb one back to AL13N since he's not responding
20:43:28 <MrsB> there are one or two not responding, I'll shorten the list after the meeting ;)
20:43:45 <Luigi12_work> still waiting on packagers for various things.  not sure why blino hasn't backported the thunderbird-lightning 2.6.2 so that we can get thunderbird to QA
20:44:01 <MrsB> Ahh yes, firefox..
20:44:12 <Luigi12_work> Java 1.6.0 and 1.7.0 updates are still in progress, hoping to have those ready tomorrow (fingers crossed)
20:44:19 <MrsB> Has anybody here had any graphical issues with new firefox versions?
20:44:28 <wilcal> Good ole Java
20:44:28 <lewyssmith> Not me
20:44:32 <DavidWHodgins> Nope. Working fine here.
20:44:40 <Luigi12_work> poppler still waiting for someone to backport the fix for mga2 (like another distro perhaps)
20:44:46 <wilcal> I'm not seeing any
20:45:01 <Luigi12_work> x2goserver obgr_seneca really needs to take care of, since it needs a version update and it's his package
20:45:04 <Luigi12_work> it's critical severity too
20:45:30 <Luigi12_work> thinking spturtle will backport the iceape update once it's pushed in Cauldron
20:45:40 <wrw105> None here, and I added it to the bug.  I can test under different hardware later on as we've just gotten my dad a laptop that Win 8 is just ENTIRELY too annoying on....
20:45:45 <MrsB> #info  Java 1.6.0 and 1.7.0 updates are still in progress, hoping to have those ready tomorrow.  poppler still waiting for someone to backport the fix for mga2 (like another distro perhaps).
20:45:57 <Luigi12_work> still waiting for oden to finish the polarssl update, and there's a systemd update still needed from coling
20:46:03 <MrsB> #info x2goserver obgr_seneca really needs to take care of, since it needs a version update
20:46:05 <wilcal> Here's a good site to check video on FIrefox:
20:46:07 <wilcal> http://www.earthcam.com/usa/newyork/timessquare/
20:46:08 <[mbot> [ Times Square Cam - EarthCam ]
20:46:49 <Luigi12_work> that's all I have.  Any questions for me?
20:46:57 <wilcal> Not from me
20:47:00 <lewyssmith> Phew!
20:47:03 <MrsB> Regarding firefox, I think we'll wait and see what darkduck finds with the driver tests but it seems low impact so I think we should stick with 24 ideally
20:47:16 <Luigi12_work> agreed on that BTW MrsB
20:48:22 <Luigi12_work> guess that's it for me.  I gotta go.  later everyone
20:48:33 <MrsB> thanks David
20:48:39 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else?
20:48:48 <wilcal> I got a testing question
20:48:52 <MrsB> Is there anything else?
20:48:55 <MrsB> ohh, go for it
20:48:58 <wilcal> Which log will I need to check/track for when an application crashes the system out of x11?
20:49:40 <DavidWHodgins> Likely ~/.xsession-errors and /var/log/Xorg.0.log
20:49:55 <MrsB> You can check the journal, also /var/log/Xorg.0.log and sometimes ~/.xsession-errors has some info
20:50:04 <MrsB> GMTA
20:50:09 <wilcal> Thanks I'll look at that
20:50:10 <DavidWHodgins> Might not hurt to run dmesg>dmesg.txt too, and attach that too.
20:50:32 <wilcal> OpenSHot in M4 is crashing out to black screen then login menu
20:51:04 <DavidWHodgins> Might be /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old, after it restarts.
20:51:05 <wilcal> Thanks
20:51:16 <MrsB> journal usually has segfaults, X crashes usually have a backtrace in Xorg.0.log and ~/.xsession-errors is the stderr from X applications
20:52:23 <MrsB> Is there anything else else?
20:52:28 <DavidWHodgins> Should we hold the firefox update until the tb update is ready?
20:52:32 <wilcal> nope not from me
20:52:51 <lewyssmith> Are we going back to M4B1?
20:52:54 <MrsB> shouldn't be any need to, they're nto that tightly related are they?
20:52:56 <wilcal> I've got an M4 32-bit installer cook'n in the back room
20:53:05 <MrsB> yes please lewis
20:53:22 <wilcal> I've some open time the next 3-days
20:53:22 <MrsB> there may be some fixes coming soon for beta 1 by the sounds of it
20:53:29 <lewyssmith> Now or later (to talk)?
20:53:30 <wilcal> yep
20:53:40 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Go ahead
20:53:54 <lewyssmith> Let me finish...
20:54:00 * MrsB listens
20:54:37 <Tonyb> listening
20:54:45 <lewyssmith> It seems to me that M4B1 is too chaotic to continue with. I propose that we stop thrashing it,
20:55:16 <lewyssmith> take a deep breath, calmly try & sort the obvious problems and re-start with B2
20:55:29 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: No doubt it will be delayed. How long remains to be seen.
20:55:40 <tmb> then we might as well stop mga4 release too.
20:55:54 <ennael> and leave for vacation \o/
20:55:56 <ennael> sorry
20:56:10 <lewyssmith> We are getting re-builds faster than one can download them,
20:56:10 <ennael> no way to delete B1
20:56:14 <MrsB> we do need to release it, to get it more widely tested. Also to keep mageia in the public eye and to keep devs interested
20:56:17 <ennael> we need 2 beta releases
20:56:28 <wilcal> question on installer
20:56:31 <lewyssmith> the PAD is refreshed faster than one can add to it
20:57:06 <MrsB> we need the RC to be a proper RC with mga4, ie. tidying up bits of artwork etc. So it's important to do the hard miles now
20:57:08 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: That is actually not unusual, during iso testing.
20:57:13 <Tonyb> PAD should settle down once we get over this hump?
20:57:18 <lewyssmith> Cannot the public testing await B2?
20:57:33 <wilcal> I've seen worse, way worse ( Mandriva days )
20:57:47 <MrsB> trouble is, any fixes will remain untested until the RC
20:57:56 <wilcal> Can't do that
20:58:20 <lewyssmith> No. But why would that happen?
20:58:36 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: It's better to get the installer bugs fixed now, rather then waiting till after the RC, as happened with mageia 3.
20:58:39 <wilcal> question here, hand up and waving
20:58:49 <lewyssmith> Would not B2 have all the fixes from B1?
20:59:05 <Tonyb> Guess each step has to be public.  A foundation-stone for Mageia
20:59:06 <MrsB> we've regularly had 5 rebuilds during testing though. Beta 1 has alot of issues caused by a handful of bugs. When the handful are fixed we should see big changes, but we can't afford to find that out when we hit the RC
20:59:16 <MrsB> yes that too Tonyb
20:59:32 <lewyssmith> The point is: B1 is *not* installing
20:59:43 <MrsB> not *yet* :)
20:59:48 <ennael> then beta 1 is not released but delayed
21:00:08 <ennael> and we cannot release on time for fosdem then it will be delayed that's all
21:00:12 <DavidWHodgins> We know that. It will not be released until it is. It will still be b1, even if it doesn't get released until b2 is currently scheduled for.
21:00:19 <MrsB> It's frustrating, for sure, but we do this so regular mageians don't have to
21:00:48 <MrsB> personally I'm knackered from testing this time.
21:01:01 <ennael> knackered ?
21:01:05 <MrsB> worn out
21:01:06 <DavidWHodgins> We have to get all of the installer bugs out of the way, well before the RC.
21:01:06 <lewyssmith> Seeing your PAD notes, I am not surprised
21:01:15 <wilcal> I have no problem with on going testing
21:01:16 <lewyssmith> Agreed
21:01:29 <Tonyb> It's the only way
21:01:30 <wilcal> M3 is solid as a rock and always comforting to go back to
21:01:33 <tmb> one thing... for those that have issues... try the boot(-nonfree).iso and see if it happends there too
21:01:50 <lewyssmith> Where do you get it?
21:02:00 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: I'll give that a try right now.
21:02:34 <lewyssmith> Another question: EFI again...
21:02:38 <tmb> just to rule out if something else in the iso build process  needs to be adjusted
21:03:04 <MrsB> So guys, we've had a bumpy ride, but lets look forward to getting the bugs fixed. If we didn't take the bumps then others would have to, it's why we're here. It has been unusually bumpy though!
21:03:08 <lewyssmith> Thomas's notes refer to LIVE ISOs. Will it be for CLASSIC also?
21:03:19 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: In any mirror, in the distrib/cauldron/x86_64/install/images directory
21:03:32 <Tonyb> Lewyssmith: the classic DVD is not yet recognized as UEFI-bootable I think
21:03:56 <tmb> lewyssmith: not yet, I will test out how to do that , but that will probably be for beta2
21:03:58 <Tonyb> ...nice when it is
21:03:59 <lewyssmith> Tonyb: Not even as a USB stick?
21:04:17 <MrsB> usbstick is only lives i think
21:04:23 <MrsB> uefi
21:04:33 <Tonyb> Haven't tried usb stick - hope to avoid that if info on DVD
21:04:51 <MrsB> Is there anything else else else?
21:04:57 <wilcal> please explain this error: postgresql-jdbc script failed error with classic isos (#11591)
21:04:59 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here
21:05:01 <tmb> yes, I need to document and test how to get the classic installer to boot up nicely under uefi
21:05:01 <lewyssmith> I have never got a Mageia DVD recognised for booting on my EFI box
21:05:28 <ennael> MrsB: I guess I've found the pb with xfce. There is no require on any display manager
21:05:34 <DavidWHodgins> The script is calling a command, or macro, that doesn't exist. It's a packaging error.
21:05:41 <ennael> only a suggest
21:05:43 <wilcal> Thanks
21:05:46 <MrsB> It's a packaging error wilcal, needs some packages to be rebuilt/fixed
21:05:49 <ennael> adding it to bcd dual conf
21:05:57 <MrsB> ennael: \o/
21:06:26 <MrsB> can windowmaker use a different dm btw, there is no way to reboot from xdm
21:06:29 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Will you remove the kernel-source and qt4-doc from the isos, to reduce the size?
21:06:30 <wilcal> I'll try the latest 32-bit classic installer on real hardware later today
21:06:44 <wilcal> blank drive
21:07:07 <MrsB> ok, shall we finish?
21:07:13 <wilcal> I'm done
21:07:18 <MrsB> T-5
21:07:19 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: adding it now
21:07:23 <MrsB> 4
21:07:25 <MrsB> 3
21:07:26 <lewyssmith> Cheerio
21:07:28 <MrsB> 2
21:07:29 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Thanks.
21:07:29 <dvg> bfn
21:07:31 <MrsB> 1
21:07:36 <Tonyb> covered it all!
21:07:44 <MrsB> Thanks for coming everybody! Keep testing :)
21:07:49 <MrsB> #endmeeting