20:08:35 <MrsB> #startmeeting 20:08:35 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Oct 31 20:08:35 2013 UTC. The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:08:35 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:08:55 <MrsB> Hi everybody. Welcome to another one :) 20:09:07 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins 20:09:07 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB 20:09:09 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? - If you are joining us then come and say hello. 20:09:31 <MrsB> Is there anybody new tonight? 20:09:54 <MrsB> rehcla: are you joining us? 20:10:13 <lewyssmith> A new name 20:10:51 <MrsB> not here at the moment though. I thinkthe new time ahs confused people 20:11:00 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Firefox update - Please test it! Any issues? 20:11:06 <MrsB> thanks Dave 20:11:16 <lewyssmith> Works for me 20:11:17 <MrsB> So, any issues with firefox? 20:11:27 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11370 20:11:30 <wilcal> Helo got sidetracked 20:11:36 <MrsB> morning wilcal 20:11:37 <DavidWHodgins> I'm having problems on it with my old i586 system, but there are other problems too, so it's not really good for testing right now. 20:11:38 <lewyssmith> Greetings 20:11:43 <wilcal> Morn'n 20:12:01 <MrsB> What kind of problems dave? 20:12:15 <MrsB> could they be graphics card related? 20:12:20 <wilcal> I'm not find'n any major issues with FF 20:12:21 <DavidWHodgins> I need to do a clean install. With firefox, it starts, but there is no graphical output. 20:12:37 <MrsB> anything in a terminal? 20:12:42 <DavidWHodgins> Nope. 20:12:49 <MrsB> is that mga3? 20:12:52 <DavidWHodgins> It doesn't crash, there is just no output. 20:13:01 <lewyssmith> Drastic 20:13:11 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, just upgraded, but had problems due to prior rpm database corruption. 20:13:24 <MrsB> yeah, did you check all rpms were there? 20:13:41 <lewyssmith> Are you asking *Dave*? 20:13:47 <DavidWHodgins> That's why I'm going to do a clean install this evening, to test it properly. 20:14:18 <MrsB> #info possible problem mga3 32 but on daves dodgy system so he'll retest after a clean install 20:14:59 <MrsB> aside from that everybody ok with it so far? 20:15:11 <DavidWHodgins> Fine on my other computer. 20:15:21 <wilcal> I've been run'n 24 on this system now for about 2-months no prob 20:15:38 <MrsB> lewis, all ok? 20:15:49 <wilcal> no problems with 24 ESL so far as I can see 20:15:53 <lewyssmith> Yes - I said thus 20:16:05 <MrsB> #info aside from daves dodgy box all seems fine 20:16:30 <MrsB> great, lets move on then, thanks 20:16:31 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Kernel/Glibc updates - Basically on hold 20:16:57 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Have you had a chance to look at running the poc on an i586 system? 20:17:16 <lewyssmith> I want to try that 20:17:19 <MrsB> Yeah, the kernels are basically on hold until glibc has been fixed/ok'd 20:17:41 <wilcal> Will that hold up M4B1 too? 20:17:43 <DavidWHodgins> Other then the poc problem, I haven't seen any other kernel problems. 20:17:51 <tmb> DavidWHodgins: nope, will try to do so in a few days 20:17:54 <MrsB> I was going to set them all with the 'feedback' marker but thought it was more work than it was worth :) 20:18:18 <MrsB> tmb will they need to be tested again when glibc is updated? 20:19:17 <tmb> as for the kernels they dont need to wait for glibc... as it's api/abi stable and only requires kernel. 2.6.32 its safe to push separately 20:19:51 <MrsB> ok so we can go ahead and finish testign them then 20:20:04 <tmb> yes, it means 2 reboots, for those updates right now... but that's "temporary" 20:20:04 <wilcal> I've still got that Vbox wrinkle with M3-32 bit kernel 20:20:20 <MrsB> #info glibc ad kernels can be pushed separately so we can finish testing them and get them out of the way 20:20:26 <wilcal> M3-64 works ol in Vbox 20:21:06 <MrsB> great :) 20:21:15 <MrsB> lets go on then 20:21:15 <tmb> point is there are new kernel CVEs coming, so if we delay them more, I might as well re-do all kernels... 20:21:41 <MrsB> is that what you want to do tmb? 20:22:08 <DavidWHodgins> Let's hold them then, and see if the cve fixes fix the problem in m2 i586 under vbox. 20:22:46 <MrsB> we were under the impression glibc and kernels were going to be pushed together so since the problems with glibs the kernels have been largely ignored 20:22:46 <tmb> that's actually up to you guys... it just means it "invalidates" all the testing so far :/ 20:23:20 <DavidWHodgins> We'll have to retest any way, when the cve fixes do come. 20:23:28 <tmb> that was because Dave hoped for a dingle reboot... 20:23:32 <wilcal> Might as well wait 20:23:40 <MrsB> ok then yeah, let's wait 20:24:02 <MrsB> we've enough going on really, we don't need to create work :) 20:24:02 <wilcal> I'm get'n to be a kernel test'n fool :-)))))) 20:24:10 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:24:40 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Backports - A tale of myth, mystery and fable 20:24:52 <MrsB> #info kernels have new cves so tmb will rebuild them and we'll hold for now 20:25:00 <MrsB> ahh yes 20:25:05 <wilcal> This is what I am worried about 20:25:06 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11463#c8 20:25:16 <MrsB> do you all remember we talked about backports before 20:25:17 <[mbot> Bug 11463: normal, Normal, qa-bugs, qa-bugs, NEW , Update request: kernel-3.10.16-1.mga3, kernel-3.10.16-1.mga3 20:25:54 <MrsB> they've been going to open soon since mageia 2 really 20:26:15 <MrsB> recently they've been waiting for the git migration 20:26:23 <wilcal> What will be the first apps to go into backports 20:26:36 <DavidWHodgins> That's up to the developers. 20:26:44 <lewyssmith> Are not Mageia applications normally pretty up-to-date? 20:26:46 <MrsB> Well, do we all understand what a backport is? 20:27:00 <wilcal> explain 20:27:34 <MrsB> backports are essentially new versions of leaf packages 20:27:56 <MrsB> our updates policy is to patch whereever possible and to keep the existing version, it helps stability 20:28:09 <lewyssmith> leaf packages = ? 20:28:18 <MrsB> people always want newer versions of things though after a while 20:28:23 <MrsB> coming to that 20:28:43 <MrsB> backports allow new versions to be created in the Backport medias 20:28:50 <wilcal> Biggest backport for me will be around Mar/Apr next year with OpenShot 20:28:52 <wilcal> moving from ver 1.4.x to 2.x. That will be a BIG jump in capability. 20:29:04 <MrsB> I have a couple of links for you 20:29:18 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Backports_policy 20:29:26 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_process_for_validating_backports 20:29:44 <MrsB> Not everything can be created as a backport 20:30:23 <MrsB> we will restrict them only to things which won't break other packages by being an incompatible version 20:30:36 <MrsB> so nothing that anything else depends upon 20:31:12 <MrsB> in other words, if you think of the dependencies as a tree, the ones which can be backported are the leaves 20:31:30 <MrsB> does that make sense? 20:31:37 <wilcal> Yes 20:31:40 <lewyssmith> Yes thanks 20:32:31 <MrsB> Backports must have strict versioned requires, meaning that they must require a specific version of any dependencies 20:32:51 <lewyssmith> not >= ? 20:33:49 <MrsB> no, they should be == 20:33:58 <DavidWHodgins> Why? 20:34:09 <DavidWHodgins> >= should be fine 20:34:33 <lewyssmith> So the branches need to be updated beforehand 20:35:46 <MrsB> It's so they can be cherrypicked, >= might be good enough really, htinking about it. They should be able to be installed and removed though without affecting the normal packages 20:36:03 <DavidWHodgins> I think >= should be fine, if the dependency is being added with the backport, as updates for the dependency, would otherwise require also changing the package that requires it, just for the version change. 20:36:31 <MrsB> yeah, we'll need to discuss that aspect of it with those who know i think 20:36:38 <MrsB> tmb any insight? 20:37:54 <DavidWHodgins> All we need to do, is ensure nothing in the backport will interfere with packages from release or updates. 20:37:56 <tmb> yeah, >= is the one that should be used for most cases 20:38:18 <MrsB> Anyway, the news is, backports *should* be opening very soon! 20:38:27 <wilcal> kool 20:38:37 <MrsB> yes, our testing of backports will be very minimal 20:38:48 <MrsB> And the lowest possible priority 20:38:54 <wilcal> We'll be able to see the apps in the repo 20:39:08 <MrsB> we'll basically ensure they install ok and start ok and can be uninstalled ok and that's about it 20:39:08 <lewyssmith> How will users cope with the media? 20:39:34 <MrsB> Backports medias are separate from Updates medias 20:39:39 <DavidWHodgins> Once there is a backport available, there'll be a blog post explaining. 20:39:45 <MrsB> enable it, install what you want, disable it 20:39:55 <DavidWHodgins> It's pretty much the same as what we do with updates testing. 20:40:12 <MrsB> yep, there are Core Backports Testing medias etc 20:41:03 <MrsB> It's completely new to most of us, certainly here and many packagers too so it will take a while until we're all up to speed 20:41:36 <DavidWHodgins> Most of the packagers should be familiar with it, from Mandriva days. 20:41:45 <MrsB> we have alot of new packagers 20:43:01 <MrsB> That's somethign else. 20:43:11 <MrsB> backports can also be new packages 20:43:58 <tmb> as long as it's in cauldron first 20:44:06 <DavidWHodgins> For the timetable, hopefully early next week, when the procedures are ready, there'll be an email on the developers list, letting them know how there part works, then when the first backport gets validated, a blog post to the general public. 20:44:36 <lewyssmith> Not one per package? 20:44:36 <wilcal> So to get into backport the package version must be in Cauldron 20:45:01 <MrsB> no blog post per package no, just a post to announce backports are opening 20:45:06 <DavidWHodgins> There'll be a mailing list for the backports, as I understand it. 20:45:23 <MrsB> there will also be a backports-announce mailing list, similar to the updates-announce one 20:45:25 <tmb> thats the idea, yes 20:45:33 <wilcal> Makes sense 20:46:18 <lewyssmith> I did not know about those 20:46:23 <lewyssmith> MLs 20:46:44 <lewyssmith> Do the public subscribe? 20:46:45 <MrsB> yeah, useful 20:47:13 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: They are all open to the public, except the board one. 20:47:29 <lewyssmith> Open is one thing; offer taken up is another 20:47:37 <tmb> question is... should we have same kind of advisories like updates ? 20:48:05 <DavidWHodgins> Probably a good idea to have them. 20:48:20 <DavidWHodgins> We'll need to id the srpm to be pushed, anyway. 20:48:33 <MrsB> I think we should list rpm's aswell as srpms on our advisories btw 20:49:02 <MrsB> be nice if that happened automatically though 20:49:06 <DavidWHodgins> All advisories, or just the backports? 20:49:20 <MrsB> all really. People installing updates install the rpms 20:50:21 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Can the script that pushes updates, and posts the a advisories be modified to also generate and include a list of rpm packages in the advisories? 20:50:23 <tmb> thats the idea... only list srpm in advisory, and the tool would add the rpms list automatically .... but one again someone needs to start coding that feature too... 20:50:52 <MrsB> there are only sysadmins know how it all fits together 20:52:09 <tmb> well, anyone who knows how to query rpm database according to srpm name can code that part up... 20:52:09 <lewyssmith> Can we move on? 20:52:11 <MrsB> So, is everybody OK with backports so far? 20:52:20 <wilcal> Yep 20:52:22 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 20:52:31 <MrsB> we'll talk more about them in future 20:52:39 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Mageia 2 EOL 20:52:42 <MrsB> but they will open soon, for real this time 20:52:56 <MrsB> thanks 20:53:14 <MrsB> Mageia 2 is reaching its end of life in November 20:53:20 <wilcal> Date 20:53:26 <lewyssmith> Why before M4 is out? 20:53:28 <MrsB> it's almost been 18 months already 20:53:38 <MrsB> I *think* the 22nd 20:53:52 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 20:53:57 <MrsB> https://blog.mageia.org/en/2012/05/22/mageia-2/ 20:54:01 <MrsB> so yeah 22nd 20:54:21 <MrsB> that will make things a little easier for us for a while 20:54:30 <DavidWHodgins> Also https://www.mageia.org/en/support/ 20:54:31 <[mbot> [ Support for Mageia distribution ] 20:54:47 <MrsB> ahh that's a good link dave, thanks 20:54:48 <DavidWHodgins> Mageia 3 still has a full year. 20:55:20 <MrsB> https://www.mageia.org/en/support/ so it gets logged 20:55:21 <[mbot> [ Support for Mageia distribution ] 20:55:37 <wilcal> M2 is what Mandriva should'a been 20:56:08 <MrsB> M2 was our first true mageia release imho 20:56:38 <MrsB> M1 was largely rebranding and M2 was pure Mageia 20:56:40 <DavidWHodgins> So once M2 is eol, everyone can free up the disk space, to make room for m4, and m3 uprgrade to m4 tests. 20:57:10 <lewyssmith> I hope M2 is going to be left in a good solid state 20:57:19 <MrsB> Just to be clear, reaching EOL means there are no more updates or bugfixes coming for it. 20:57:51 <MrsB> depends how quickly we can get the kernels released lewis :) 20:57:57 <wilcal> M1 is still in the mirrors.kernel.org repo 20:58:13 <MrsB> yes it stays on the mirrors 20:58:30 <wilcal> I don't have it here anymore 20:58:56 <MrsB> anything in the Testing medias is deleted when it reaches EOL 20:59:28 <MrsB> So it's good and sad news all at once 20:59:41 <lewyssmith> Should there be anyhting there? 20:59:56 <MrsB> in testing medias? 21:00:00 <lewyssmith> Yes 21:00:07 <MrsB> anything waiting to be tested 21:00:19 <lewyssmith> Yes 21:00:32 <DavidWHodgins> There shouldn't be, but if developers have added packages that didn't get assigned to qa, or if we don't validate the update by then, then there will be. 21:00:44 <MrsB> when it's EOL though anything which hasn't been pushed gets deleted 21:01:06 <MrsB> yep, i think there are still some X11 bits which were never assigned to us 21:01:31 <wilcal> there's nothing here in M1 21:01:43 <MrsB> M1 is long dead 21:02:06 <lewyssmith> [Sigh of relief] 21:02:11 <MrsB> Anything else to add here? 21:02:16 <wilcal> not from me 21:02:24 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Beta 1 - again 21:02:27 <MrsB> thanks 21:02:50 <MrsB> As you know, beta 1 was rescheduled due to issues with rpm and some dev stuff 21:03:17 <MrsB> We can expect the first builds soemtime this weekend though 21:03:33 <MrsB> tmb what is your schedule for this? 21:04:49 <MrsB> #info Beta 1 release is planned for 6th November, we should expect the first builds this weekend 21:05:56 <tmb> well, we are still sorting out rpm breaking deps ordering.... hopefully tonight / tomorrow I will have first isos 21:06:05 <MrsB> thanks 21:06:40 <MrsB> #info there are still bits of fixing ongoing but hopefully Friday 21:06:48 <DavidWHodgins> Everyone, make sure you rename the directories, and files, as per the email. 21:07:10 <MrsB> #info please keep an eye on qa-discuss for news 21:07:12 <wilcal> I'm ready to go here. I got the PW 21:07:29 <MrsB> #info also please make sure you have renamed your alpha3 isos ready to go 21:07:41 <lewyssmith> I find this renaming everything a PITA 21:07:55 <MrsB> it saves a 16Gb download each time 21:08:05 <lewyssmith> I do not recall it for Mag3 21:08:12 <MrsB> yeah we did 21:08:20 <DavidWHodgins> We did it for m3 too, and m2, and m1. 21:08:32 <lewyssmith> All the individual files? 21:08:38 <MrsB> it's simple to do, did you get the commands in the email? 21:08:44 <lewyssmith> Yes 21:08:48 <DavidWHodgins> It's just two commands. 21:08:49 <MrsB> they do it all for you 21:09:14 <tmb> I already put the pad up last we :) 21:09:19 <tmb> http://bn.parinux.org/p/mageia4beta1 21:09:21 <[mbot> [ Etherpad Lite ] 21:09:27 <ennael> (hi there) 21:09:44 <MrsB> just cd to where you kept the alpha3 isos and use the two commands to rename everything for you 21:09:48 <MrsB> morning ennael 21:09:50 <DavidWHodgins> The only part of the renaming I find a bit of a pain, is having to remove/readd all of the iso images to vb. 21:10:05 <MrsB> yeah 21:10:20 <MrsB> any news from your side ennael ? 21:10:29 <wilcal> You'n me both David 21:10:39 <ennael> not really I'll start tomorrow working on isos 21:10:54 <MrsB> ok thanks 21:11:23 <MrsB> Anything else to add here? 21:11:30 <wilcal> Not from me 21:11:42 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else? 21:11:56 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here. 21:11:59 <wilcal> When will a contact person for FOSDEM 2014 be named? 21:11:59 <MrsB> I'll email the iso testers list to warn people they are coming tomorrow 21:12:20 <MrsB> what kind of contact person? 21:12:41 <wilcal> Where Mageia people will be staying contacting Fri eve ect ect 21:13:04 <MrsB> ennael do we have a wiki page for fosdem yet? 21:13:27 <ennael> not yet 21:13:56 <MrsB> you can see last years here https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Fosdem_2013 21:14:05 <MrsB> i'll let you know though as soon as I know 21:14:06 <wilcal> If I go I have to pull the trigger here in Mid Dec 21:14:16 <wilcal> Ya I saw the 2013 thing 21:14:16 <MrsB> you're going? 21:14:26 <wilcal> For now I'm a go 21:14:32 <MrsB> brilliant, well done 21:14:37 <ennael> we are still watigin for an answer for the boot 21:14:42 <MrsB> booth 21:14:44 <ennael> booth 21:14:47 <MrsB> :D 21:14:50 <ennael> :) 21:15:01 <ennael> iso building is hurting 21:15:19 <MrsB> it's in the early stages of being organised at the moment 21:15:48 <MrsB> Is there anything else else? 21:15:58 <wilcal> FWIW over the years I've probably done 100's of Trade Shows 21:16:01 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here. 21:16:06 <wilcal> nut'n here 21:16:13 <lewyssmith> Nor me 21:16:30 <MrsB> thanks for coming then everybody and thanks to tmb and ennael too 21:16:33 <MrsB> T-5 21:16:34 <wilcal> Anxious to see the M4B1 isos 21:16:39 <MrsB> 4 21:16:41 <MrsB> 3 21:16:43 <MrsB> 2 21:16:45 <MrsB> 1 21:16:50 <MrsB> Same time next week :) 21:16:54 <MrsB> #endmeeting