19:04:58 <MrsB> #startmeeting 19:04:58 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Oct 24 19:04:58 2013 UTC. The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:04:58 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:05:09 <MrsB> Hi all welcome to another one :) 19:05:26 <MrsB> thanks for not being square 19:05:41 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins 19:05:41 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB 19:05:50 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? - come and say hi if you're just joining us! 19:05:56 <MrsB> Thanks :) 19:06:02 <MrsB> Sooo is anybody new? 19:06:22 <Kernewes> MrsB: I only arrived a few minutes ago 19:06:33 <MrsB> you're almost as new as I am 19:07:07 <MrsB> ca-on-adam is back with us today, welcome back to the QA team 19:07:41 <MrsB> Roelof was having 2nd thougghts but I hope he'll decide to stay 19:07:56 <ca-on-adam> MrsB: Thanks, you wouldn't believe what I went through in the intervening months... 19:08:02 <wilcal> I don' give up on testing I get more persistant 19:08:08 <MrsB> lets hear it then 19:08:21 <MrsB> yeah you're doing well wilcal 19:08:34 <MrsB> especially now yuou've configured your media :) 19:08:37 <ca-on-adam> hmm, in one line 19:08:44 <MrsB> sure 19:08:47 <wilcal> More on that whe we get to that issue 19:09:26 <MrsB> I'll just remind everybody of our testing process.. 19:09:27 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_process_for_validating_updates 19:09:43 <MrsB> there is a link in there explaining how to configure your medias for testing 19:10:01 <MrsB> if it's not clear enough then let me know and I'll try to simplify it 19:12:01 * MrsB waits for adam 19:12:38 <ca-on-adam> oh 19:12:49 <MrsB> lol ok we'll coem back to it 19:13:01 <MrsB> let's move on 19:13:02 <ca-on-adam> I thought wellcat said wait to later: "more on that..." 19:13:18 <MrsB> #topic The end of Summer 19:13:27 <MrsB> Sadly... 19:13:44 <MrsB> the time has come to embrace the darkness 19:13:57 <ca-on-adam> Winter is coming. 19:14:02 <wilcal> oct/nov/dec is best surfing here in Surf City USA ( San Diego ) 19:14:22 <MrsB> The end of daylight savings time is this weekend in the EU. Clocks go backward an hour 19:14:33 <MrsB> It's next weekend I think for US & Canada 19:14:40 <DavidWHodgins> Clocks change first Sunday in Nov. Here. 19:15:08 <MrsB> What we have done previously is stick with the EU change 19:15:15 <MrsB> still ok to do that Dave? 19:15:21 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 19:15:32 <ca-on-adam> For Canada, (maybe USA) its Nov. 3 19:15:33 <wilcal> Is the UK in step with the EU? 19:15:36 <DavidWHodgins> One hour earlier, for two weeks. 19:16:16 <MrsB> #info When the clocks change, we change our meeting time to match them, so the actual time of the meeting will be 20 UTC from next week but the time on your clock will stay the same. 19:16:45 <wilcal> QA meeting always by UTC time 19:17:07 <MrsB> It's the best way to express time but it's confusing as hell 19:17:28 <dvg> not the same, because i have utc :( 19:17:32 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. It's one hour later here, not one earlier, for the next two weeks. 19:17:35 <lewyssmith> Need to change Meetings here Thursdays @ 19UTC 19:18:11 <MrsB> We had prolonged discussion about this before trying to work out what was goign to happen and found it best to keep the same local time for everybody and adjust the UTC meeting time 19:18:26 <dvg> aye 19:18:33 <wilcal> Sounds good to me 19:18:38 <MrsB> yes i'll alter the topic afterwards, thanks for reminding me! 19:19:02 <MrsB> There is a one week overlap for US/CA unfortunately 19:19:04 <dvg> you go back in time ? 19:19:21 <wilcal> Spring Forward, Fall Back 19:19:28 <MrsB> It goes to 20utc doesn't it? 19:19:36 <MrsB> i can never work it out 19:19:44 <dvg> changing topic afterward is going back in time 19:19:53 <MrsB> Ahhh brain ache 19:20:08 <wilcal> use this: 19:20:09 <wilcal> http://time.is/UTC 19:20:10 <[mbot> [ Time for UTC now ] 19:20:56 <MrsB> I think it moves to 20UTC if I remember correctly 19:21:25 <MrsB> We'll soon know, on Sunday :) 19:21:47 <wilcal> I've got lots of time clock stories, maybe after the meeting 19:21:54 <dvg> clock goes back here so its ok 19:22:00 <ca-on-adam> MrsB: my way of reasoning is to think in reverse: if your time goes one hour back, then UTC is going one hour ahead of you. 19:22:16 <dvg> UTC is constant 19:22:33 <MrsB> #info the meeting will stay the same localtime for people but USA/CA clocks change on Nov 3rd so it will be an hour earlier next week then go back to normal if that is you 19:23:00 <MrsB> So, you guys can work this out better than me and let me know :D 19:23:28 <MrsB> Everybody OK with this? 19:23:36 <wilcal> No problem for me. Thur middays are usually pretty open 19:23:44 <wilcal> for me 19:23:53 <dvg> ok 19:24:08 <MrsB> if i get it wrong please correct me! 19:24:43 <dvg> sure 19:24:50 <dvg> it is evening 19:24:53 <MrsB> lets go on then 19:24:53 <MrsB> #topic Beta 1 19:25:08 <MrsB> dvg :P 19:25:34 <MrsB> Beta 1 should be with us any day now 19:25:43 <MrsB> it's due for release on the 31st 19:25:48 <MrsB> wb Dave 19:25:55 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 19:26:10 <wilcal> Welcome back :-)) 19:26:16 <MrsB> Is everybody ready for soem more ISO testing? 19:26:26 <dvg> by 31st yes 19:26:35 <Kernewes> ditto 19:26:37 <DavidWHodgins> If my connection stays like this, I'm going to have problems syncing. 19:26:41 <lewyssmith> Yes 19:26:41 <wilcal> This should be more stable but, more functional testing 19:26:42 <MrsB> Well, we should hopefully get them in the next day or two 19:27:08 <dvg> but prerelease is still planned for 24th? 19:27:22 <MrsB> Yes, around then (today) 19:27:26 <lewyssmith> Of what? 19:27:32 <dvg> october 19:27:34 <MrsB> October 19:27:51 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_4_Development 19:28:16 <MrsB> #info we should expect pre-release beta 1 isos in the next day or two. It is due for release on the 31st 19:28:39 <wilcal> The weekend for sure 19:28:53 <MrsB> Hopefully we should see things begin to stabilise now 19:29:10 <MrsB> we should start to test the applications aswell, they are in version freeze 19:29:17 <wilcal> Huge updates to my repo in the last week 19:29:21 <Kernewes> I'm finding it stable now, doing nearly everything on it 19:29:26 <MrsB> make sure what is on the ISO works 19:29:36 <MrsB> that's good to hear Kernewes 19:29:40 <MrsB> encouraging! 19:30:12 <MrsB> everybody remember how to do it? 19:30:28 <MrsB> Anybody have anything to ask? 19:30:49 <MrsB> ca-on-adam: will you be joining in? 19:31:05 <ca-on-adam> well, if it involves more than just running an install like the end user would, then is there a link? 19:31:10 <wilcal> mailman just brought presents :-)) 19:31:34 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_ISO_testers 19:32:38 <MrsB> If you add yourself to the list can you let somebody know too please so we can add you to our email list 19:33:20 <ca-on-adam> ok, but I thought the link would contain a checklist of what to do. 19:33:35 <MrsB> ohh that link 19:33:36 <Kernewes> With Mageia 3, it was fine pretty well right up to the last beta or the RC 19:33:40 <Kernewes> and then it went downhill 19:34:10 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Pre-release_ISO_testing 19:34:12 <lewyssmith> ca-on-adam: There is a document not yet complete... 19:34:19 <lewyssmith> Forestalled! 19:34:32 <MrsB> ignore the bit about only testing one or two, we need as many to test as many as they can please 19:34:44 <lewyssmith> So say you 19:35:00 <MrsB> we can't release until the last build has had all it's isos tested 19:35:00 <dvg> and I 19:35:58 <MrsB> dave are you OK for ISOs? 19:36:35 <MrsB> if t'internet holds up 19:36:54 <DavidWHodgins> Yes 19:37:06 <MrsB> great :) 19:37:19 <MrsB> Does anyone have anything to add here? 19:37:27 <wilcal> We should see an e-mail from you with the password 19:37:36 <MrsB> yes 19:37:52 <DavidWHodgins> Including the rename instructions 19:37:59 <MrsB> I'll send instructions to rename your alpha isos 19:38:03 <MrsB> yep, you beat me to it 19:38:05 <lewyssmith> What do we but for bugs (MAG4 | Cauldron)? 19:38:24 <MrsB> bugs should be crated against cauldron and add 4beta1 into the whiteboard 19:38:26 <dvg> M4B1 19:38:28 <MrsB> created* 19:39:02 <ca-on-adam> I added my entry to 'the list' 19:39:05 <MrsB> If you encounter a serious bug which is likely to block the release then also email qa-discuss about it and CC the person who built the ISO 19:39:11 <MrsB> thanks ca-on-adam 19:39:16 <ca-on-adam> I will ask somebody in this channel after the meeting. 19:39:37 <MrsB> Thomas (tmb) builds all the Live isos and Anne (ennael) builds the classic installer dvd's and the dualcd 19:40:07 <wilcal> Do you expect just a couple to begin with or all of them 19:40:12 <MrsB> DavidWHodgins is your timezone ca-on-adam, same area too I think 19:40:38 <MrsB> and Luigi12 is same timezone also, Wilcal is US on the other side IINM 19:41:24 <MrsB> tbh I don't know what to expect yet. Thomas is usually first but we should expect all of them within a few hours of each other 19:41:39 <DavidWHodgins> ca-on-adam: I'm in eastern timezone. 19:41:55 <wilcal> Your the same as NYC right David 19:42:01 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 19:42:49 <MrsB> Is there anything else on this before we move on? 19:43:02 <wilcal> Not from me 19:43:14 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here. 19:43:27 <MrsB> #topic Kernels 19:43:33 <MrsB> Here we go :) 19:43:59 <wilcal> Wow what a week 19:44:23 <wilcal> Many thanks to all, especially to MrsB, for helping me understand 19:44:28 <DavidWHodgins> I'm more concerned about the glibc update. Running the poc, before the update gets a segfault on i586 systems. After the update, it gets a hard cpu loop. 19:44:48 <MrsB> On the plus side the only updates which aren't waiting on packager input are the kernels at the moment so we get another ay to work on them before the ISOs arrive 19:45:02 <MrsB> day* 19:45:18 <MrsB> I saw your comment Dave, not tried it here yet 19:45:30 <ca-on-adam> DavidWHodgins: yes, I am also EST 19:45:36 <MrsB> I've been trying to keep the other bugs moving 19:45:36 <DavidWHodgins> The kernel updates should be held until glibc is ok too, as they are being tested together. 19:45:46 <wilcal> While I was finally successful with the nVidia thing I had the same failure with 19:45:56 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11463#c8 19:45:58 <[mbot> Bug 11463: normal, Normal, qa-bugs, qa-bugs, NEW , Update request: kernel-3.10.16-1.mga3, kernel-3.10.16-1.mga3 19:46:34 <wilcal> so the Vbox thing booted to a blank screen and I think David you said that was related to the glibc thing 19:46:57 <MrsB> #info From Dave's tests of glibc he found one of the PoC's causes a segfault so the kernels should be held until it is ready too 19:47:06 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, though iirc, it only affected m2 i586. 19:47:20 <MrsB> vbox only affected mga2? 19:47:30 <DavidWHodgins> And workaround was to restart the dm service. 19:47:42 <wilcal> It failed on M3 32-bit for me this morning just before this meeting 19:47:55 <DavidWHodgins> So it's inconsistent. 19:48:05 <wilcal> what is the command to restart the dm service? 19:48:41 <DavidWHodgins> service dm restart 19:48:50 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins: Where do you get the glibc POC to try? 19:48:50 <DavidWHodgins> Or "systemctl restart dm.service" 19:48:50 <ca-on-adam> newbie check: does poc mean proof-of-concept, does dm mean display manager ? 19:48:52 <MrsB> #info Mga2 i586 and possibly also mga3 i586 have issues in vbox.Boots to a blank screen. 19:49:10 <MrsB> #info workaround is to restart the DM 19:49:10 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Following the reference links 19:49:16 <wilcal> That's what I got this morning 19:49:17 <lewyssmith> OK 19:49:57 <MrsB> It's a shame roelof isn't here 19:50:10 <wilcal> He/she was really struggling 19:50:23 <wilcal> I get mad and persistant 19:50:24 <MrsB> #info I've asked packagers to test the kernels also but no luck there yet 19:50:39 <dvg> DWH not restart prefdm.service ? 19:50:39 <dvg> list-units does not show dm.service 19:50:58 <lewyssmith> If you get the hard CPU loop, can you still run system monitor to see it? 19:51:17 <dvg> but of course I do have Mga4 only 19:51:56 <MrsB> You can check if it's a hard lock or just the desktop not started by trying to switch to a tty (ctrl-alt-f2) 19:52:17 <MrsB> You can use the 'top' command on cli to show processes and cpu usage 19:52:18 <DavidWHodgins> I think systemd treats it as an alias for the proper service, for compatibilty with sysvinit. 19:52:26 <lewyssmith> ca-on-adam: You guessed right both times! 19:52:26 <dvg> okay 19:53:05 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Yes. It ties up one of my 4 cores. htop still works on another core. 19:53:25 <lewyssmith> I have 1... 19:54:04 <MrsB> if all else fails, hit the reset button :) 19:54:05 <DavidWHodgins> It would probably still run, just very slowly. 19:54:27 <DavidWHodgins> No. Alt+ctrl+sysrq RSEISUB 19:54:29 <MrsB> You might find REISUB works too 19:54:34 <MrsB> beaten again! 19:54:38 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 19:55:46 <dvg> DWH: alias is true in Mga4 19:55:51 <wilcal> If I've set the repos correctly shouldn't just updating with a 19:55:53 <wilcal> urpmi kernel-desktop-latest 19:55:54 <wilcal> catch everything? 19:56:01 <MrsB> no, it doesn't work like that 19:56:09 <wilcal> :-(( 19:56:25 <wilcal> How do I know which packages to update with? 19:56:51 <MrsB> It depends on the strictness of the requires, if they are strictly requiring a specific version then yes it does, most of the time though they don't need to be that strict so it's a matter of ensuring you have everything and not forgetting the libs 19:56:56 <DavidWHodgins> rpm -qa|grep kernel|grep latest 19:57:01 <MrsB> Use MageiaUpdate 19:57:08 <dvg> safest way for me: ftp kernel-desktop and rpm -kV, plus rpm -ivh ker* 19:57:35 <MrsB> just enable the core udpates testing and nonfree updates testing and then run MageiaUpdate as root 19:57:38 <wilcal> This is really get'n complex to test 19:57:48 <MrsB> scroll through it and compare against the list on the bug 19:58:01 <MrsB> tick the ones you need and don't tick the others 19:58:04 <wilcal> That's what I did this morning and that was successful 19:58:24 <MrsB> yeah, but don't just tick everything. Only tick the ones listed on the bug 19:58:32 <ca-on-adam> i hope the above commands, or equivalent, are all written down somewhere. 19:58:43 <wilcal> Actaully it'll be untick the ones you don't want to update 19:58:49 <dvg> s/kV/Kv 19:58:50 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_process_for_validating_updates 19:59:11 <MrsB> You can actually click 'Select All' when everything is selected and it de-selects everything 19:59:37 <lewyssmith> Silly after all thsi time 19:59:56 <wilcal> There was only about 80 packages in updates_testing 20:00:19 <DavidWHodgins> Just checked my usage stats. 216GB so far this month. Might be because I'm over my 200GB limit. 20:00:28 <MrsB> MageiaUpdate only lists the updates for packages you already have installed 20:00:35 <wilcal> You and I are right about the same David 20:00:50 <MrsB> Ouch, they throttle you? 20:01:05 <wilcal> I don't get cut off I just get a bigger bill 20:01:06 <lewyssmith> Seems very likely 20:01:24 <DavidWHodgins> Might be. First time though, if it is what's happening. 20:01:29 <MrsB> 280Gb so far this month :\ 20:01:48 <wilcal> Inside info told me Cox ( my ISP ) still can't monitor individual usage 20:02:14 <MrsB> lewis are you managing with the kernels? 20:02:29 <lewyssmith> Question; wait a mo 20:02:33 <MrsB> k 20:02:46 <MrsB> spiky: you too? 20:03:11 <lewyssmith> If I habitually use just the desktop one, can I simply install a different one in addition to try? 20:03:21 <lewyssmith> And how to get it recognised by Grub? 20:03:21 <MrsB> yes 20:03:24 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Yes. 20:03:42 <DavidWHodgins> It will add another entry to the grub/menu.lst files. 20:03:50 <lewyssmith> Automatically? 20:03:51 <DavidWHodgins> s /files/file/ 20:04:03 <dvg> never replace it in tetsing ! 20:04:10 <dvg> testing 20:04:11 <ca-on-adam> grub2 has some fancy-pants features 20:04:21 <MrsB> It will list them in grub with the kernel name and version. The alternate kernels don't automatically become the 'Boot mageia' link though so choose it specifically after you've installed it 20:04:23 <lewyssmith> I think this is Grub1 20:04:44 <dvg> mageia is lasted, can use drakboot --boot to change 20:05:00 <MrsB> kernel-linus is confuding because it doesn't show rt or tmb etc, it just shows as the version 20:05:01 <dvg> or easy is text edit /boot/grub/menu.lst if careful 20:05:05 <MrsB> confusing* 20:05:16 <DavidWHodgins> In grub2, selecting which kernel to boot requires using the "advanced" option. In grub legacy, it shows all of the installed kernels. 20:05:16 <dvg> s/lasted/latest 20:06:41 <lewyssmith> If I add a different kernel, anything else to add also? 20:06:42 <MrsB> With all the alternative kernels apart from the desktop/server ones with prebuilt binary modules for things like nvidia, vbox, fglrx, broadcom you need to use the dkms packages which are then built at the next boot (and take a while to build) 20:07:17 <lewyssmith> I have none of those thing 20:07:22 <MrsB> dkms packages also require the kernel devel packages to be installed to be able to build 20:07:37 <dvg> or follow dkms --help 20:08:04 <MrsB> yes, you can use 'dkms status' to show you a list, but it's a cunfusing list. 20:08:07 <wilcal> There's almost an infinite number of possibilities 20:08:13 <lewyssmith> I'll try the server one for starters 20:08:27 <dvg> should use same as desktop* 20:08:32 <dvg> sorry kernel* 20:08:53 <MrsB> yeah, install any relevant nvidia-kernel-server-latest or broadcom-wl-kernel-server-latest etc with it 20:09:00 <dvg> soif you hv kernel-desktop, you need those. server if server 20:09:35 <MrsB> #if you get stuck, please ask for help on IRC or the ML 20:09:41 <MrsB> oops 20:09:53 <MrsB> #info if you get stuck, please ask for help on IRC or the ML 20:10:00 <lewyssmith> I try the IRC, not wlays with success 20:10:10 <MrsB> you need to linger a bit 20:10:15 <lewyssmith> I do 20:10:25 <MrsB> we have lives too :) 20:10:38 <lewyssmith> As do we all 20:10:45 <MrsB> not much of one mind you :D 20:10:47 <dvg> i got just the one 20:11:01 <dvg> (not a cat) 20:11:14 <MrsB> Is there anythign else to add on the kernels? 20:11:43 <wilcal> Just a lot of time and testing 20:11:47 <MrsB> yep 20:12:02 <wilcal> Basic question 20:12:11 <MrsB> #info It's important that everybody tests as this is a version bump 20:12:14 <wilcal> why bump up to 3.10 anyway 20:12:22 <MrsB> read your mind 20:12:43 <MrsB> We tend to stick with the LTS kernels 20:12:52 <wilcal> why not just leave it alone. M4 is using 3.10 20:13:05 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: The bug and security fixes are not available as patches for the older kernel. 20:13:23 <wilcal> Did we expect all this? 20:13:28 <MrsB> When support is running out or things are easier to maintain in the newer kernel it's better/easier to maintain if we move version 20:13:34 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 20:13:35 <ca-on-adam> dvg: pretty sure even cats have on life at a time 20:13:54 <lewyssmith> dvg: You made me laugh 20:13:55 <dvg> mga4 has 3.12 20:14:08 <wilcal> I see Firefox 24 in updates_testing and that's a very good thing too 20:14:42 <MrsB> yes, but if you test that now, remember we will need to test that it upgrades from 17 later 20:14:59 <wilcal> So I can expect at least another week or so working on kernel stuff 20:15:01 <MrsB> when they settle on a version 20:15:08 <MrsB> nooo 20:15:20 <wilcal> FF 22+ use hardware acceleration 17 does not 20:15:24 <MrsB> you can expect another day or so, then ISO testing, then kernels again 20:16:16 <MrsB> we have mageia2 kernels to test too 20:16:39 <wilcal> I needed to have some success somewhere somehow before moving on 20:16:53 <MrsB> Glad you got it worked out 20:17:18 <MrsB> Anything else on kernels or shall we move on? 20:17:24 <wilcal> not from me 20:17:33 <lewyssmith> On! 20:17:43 <MrsB> yep, quite enough kernels for one day 20:17:52 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's Roundup 20:18:08 <MrsB> #info David sent email to the ML as he is out running today 20:18:49 <MrsB> #info Luigi12 says.. "For what's on the horizon, I'm still waiting on a patched polarssl update for Mageia 3 from Oden, and the next round of Java updates is coming" 20:19:21 <MrsB> That's about all there is to the roundup this week \o/ 20:19:29 <MrsB> nothing to scary there :) 20:20:26 <MrsB> Any comments or anything to add? 20:21:14 <MrsB> #topic Anything else? 20:21:17 <wilcal> not from me 20:21:27 <lewyssmith> Nor me 20:21:28 <MrsB> Is there anything else? 20:21:44 <dvg> not here 20:21:44 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here. 20:21:51 <MrsB> T-5 then 20:21:55 <MrsB> 4.. 20:21:57 <MrsB> 3.. 20:21:59 <MrsB> 2.. 20:22:02 <dvg> bfn 20:22:14 <lewyssmith> 'Bye 20:22:16 <MrsB> 1.. Thankyou all for coming. Same time next week (for those in the EU)! 20:22:17 <wilcal> bye all 20:22:23 <MrsB> #endmeeting