19:04:58 <MrsB> #startmeeting
19:04:58 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Oct 24 19:04:58 2013 UTC.  The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:04:58 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:05:09 <MrsB> Hi all welcome to another one :)
19:05:26 <MrsB> thanks for not being square
19:05:41 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins
19:05:41 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB
19:05:50 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? - come and say hi if you're just joining us!
19:05:56 <MrsB> Thanks :)
19:06:02 <MrsB> Sooo is anybody new?
19:06:22 <Kernewes> MrsB: I only arrived a few minutes ago
19:06:33 <MrsB> you're almost as new as I am
19:07:07 <MrsB> ca-on-adam is back with us today, welcome back to the QA team
19:07:41 <MrsB> Roelof was having 2nd thougghts but I hope he'll decide to stay
19:07:56 <ca-on-adam> MrsB: Thanks, you wouldn't believe what I went through in the intervening months...
19:08:02 <wilcal> I don' give up on testing I get more persistant
19:08:08 <MrsB> lets hear it then
19:08:21 <MrsB> yeah you're doing well wilcal
19:08:34 <MrsB> especially now yuou've configured your media :)
19:08:37 <ca-on-adam> hmm, in one line
19:08:44 <MrsB> sure
19:08:47 <wilcal> More on that whe we get to that issue
19:09:26 <MrsB> I'll just remind everybody of our testing process..
19:09:27 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_process_for_validating_updates
19:09:43 <MrsB> there is a link in there explaining how to configure your medias for testing
19:10:01 <MrsB> if it's not clear enough then let me know and I'll try to simplify it
19:12:01 * MrsB waits for adam
19:12:38 <ca-on-adam> oh
19:12:49 <MrsB> lol ok we'll coem back to it
19:13:01 <MrsB> let's move on
19:13:02 <ca-on-adam> I thought wellcat said wait to later: "more on that..."
19:13:18 <MrsB> #topic The end of Summer
19:13:27 <MrsB> Sadly...
19:13:44 <MrsB> the time has come to embrace the darkness
19:13:57 <ca-on-adam> Winter is coming.
19:14:02 <wilcal> oct/nov/dec is best surfing here in Surf City USA ( San Diego )
19:14:22 <MrsB> The end of daylight savings time is this weekend in the EU. Clocks go backward an hour
19:14:33 <MrsB> It's next weekend I think for US & Canada
19:14:40 <DavidWHodgins> Clocks change first Sunday in Nov. Here.
19:15:08 <MrsB> What we have done previously is stick with the EU change
19:15:15 <MrsB> still ok to do that Dave?
19:15:21 <DavidWHodgins> Yep
19:15:32 <ca-on-adam> For Canada, (maybe USA) its Nov. 3
19:15:33 <wilcal> Is the UK in step with the EU?
19:15:36 <DavidWHodgins> One hour earlier, for two weeks.
19:16:16 <MrsB> #info When the clocks change, we change our meeting time to match them, so the actual time of the meeting will be 20 UTC from next week but the time on your clock will stay the same.
19:16:45 <wilcal> QA meeting always by UTC time
19:17:07 <MrsB> It's the best way to express time but it's confusing as hell
19:17:28 <dvg> not the same, because i have utc :(
19:17:32 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. It's one hour later here, not one earlier, for the next two weeks.
19:17:35 <lewyssmith> Need to change Meetings here Thursdays @ 19UTC
19:18:11 <MrsB> We had prolonged discussion about this before trying to work out what was goign to happen and found it best to keep the same local time for everybody and adjust the UTC meeting time
19:18:26 <dvg> aye
19:18:33 <wilcal> Sounds good to me
19:18:38 <MrsB> yes i'll alter the topic afterwards, thanks for reminding me!
19:19:02 <MrsB> There is a one week overlap for US/CA unfortunately
19:19:04 <dvg> you go back in time ?
19:19:21 <wilcal> Spring Forward, Fall Back
19:19:28 <MrsB> It goes to 20utc doesn't it?
19:19:36 <MrsB> i can never work it out
19:19:44 <dvg> changing topic afterward is going back in time
19:19:53 <MrsB> Ahhh brain ache
19:20:08 <wilcal> use this:
19:20:09 <wilcal> http://time.is/UTC
19:20:10 <[mbot> [ Time for UTC now ]
19:20:56 <MrsB> I think it moves to 20UTC if I remember correctly
19:21:25 <MrsB> We'll soon know, on Sunday :)
19:21:47 <wilcal> I've got lots of time clock stories, maybe after the meeting
19:21:54 <dvg> clock goes back here so its ok
19:22:00 <ca-on-adam> MrsB: my way of reasoning is to think in reverse: if your time goes one hour back, then UTC is going one hour ahead of you.
19:22:16 <dvg> UTC is constant
19:22:33 <MrsB> #info the meeting will stay the same localtime for people but USA/CA clocks change on Nov 3rd so it will be an hour earlier next week then go back to normal if that is you
19:23:00 <MrsB> So, you guys can work this out better than me and let me know :D
19:23:28 <MrsB> Everybody OK with this?
19:23:36 <wilcal> No problem for me. Thur middays are usually pretty open
19:23:44 <wilcal> for me
19:23:53 <dvg> ok
19:24:08 <MrsB> if i get it wrong please correct me!
19:24:43 <dvg> sure
19:24:50 <dvg> it is evening
19:24:53 <MrsB> lets go on then
19:24:53 <MrsB> #topic Beta 1
19:25:08 <MrsB> dvg :P
19:25:34 <MrsB> Beta 1 should be with us any day now
19:25:43 <MrsB> it's due for release on the 31st
19:25:48 <MrsB> wb Dave
19:25:55 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:26:10 <wilcal> Welcome back  :-))
19:26:16 <MrsB> Is everybody ready for soem more ISO testing?
19:26:26 <dvg> by 31st yes
19:26:35 <Kernewes> ditto
19:26:37 <DavidWHodgins> If my connection stays like this, I'm going to have problems syncing.
19:26:41 <lewyssmith> Yes
19:26:41 <wilcal> This should be more stable but, more functional testing
19:26:42 <MrsB> Well, we should hopefully get them in the next day or two
19:27:08 <dvg> but prerelease is still planned for 24th?
19:27:22 <MrsB> Yes, around then (today)
19:27:26 <lewyssmith> Of what?
19:27:32 <dvg> october
19:27:34 <MrsB> October
19:27:51 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_4_Development
19:28:16 <MrsB> #info we should expect pre-release beta 1 isos in the next day or two. It is due for release on the 31st
19:28:39 <wilcal> The weekend for sure
19:28:53 <MrsB> Hopefully we should see things begin to stabilise now
19:29:10 <MrsB> we should start to test the applications aswell, they are in version freeze
19:29:17 <wilcal> Huge updates to my repo in the last week
19:29:21 <Kernewes> I'm finding it stable now, doing nearly everything on it
19:29:26 <MrsB> make sure what is on the ISO works
19:29:36 <MrsB> that's good to hear Kernewes
19:29:40 <MrsB> encouraging!
19:30:12 <MrsB> everybody remember how to do it?
19:30:28 <MrsB> Anybody have anything to ask?
19:30:49 <MrsB> ca-on-adam: will you be joining in?
19:31:05 <ca-on-adam> well, if it involves more than just running an install like the end user would, then is there a link?
19:31:10 <wilcal> mailman just brought presents  :-))
19:31:34 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_ISO_testers
19:32:38 <MrsB> If you add yourself to the list can you let somebody know too please so we can add you to our email list
19:33:20 <ca-on-adam> ok, but I thought the link would contain a checklist of what to do.
19:33:35 <MrsB> ohh that link
19:33:36 <Kernewes> With Mageia 3, it was fine pretty well right up to the last beta or the RC
19:33:40 <Kernewes> and then it went downhill
19:34:10 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Pre-release_ISO_testing
19:34:12 <lewyssmith> ca-on-adam: There is a document not yet complete...
19:34:19 <lewyssmith> Forestalled!
19:34:32 <MrsB> ignore the bit about only testing one or two, we need as many to test as many as they can please
19:34:44 <lewyssmith> So say you
19:35:00 <MrsB> we can't release until the last build has had all it's isos tested
19:35:00 <dvg> and I
19:35:58 <MrsB> dave are you OK for ISOs?
19:36:35 <MrsB> if t'internet holds up
19:36:54 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
19:37:06 <MrsB> great :)
19:37:19 <MrsB> Does anyone have anything to add here?
19:37:27 <wilcal> We should see an e-mail from you with the password
19:37:36 <MrsB> yes
19:37:52 <DavidWHodgins> Including the rename instructions
19:37:59 <MrsB> I'll send instructions to rename your alpha isos
19:38:03 <MrsB> yep, you beat me to it
19:38:05 <lewyssmith> What do we but for bugs (MAG4 | Cauldron)?
19:38:24 <MrsB> bugs should be crated against cauldron and add 4beta1 into the whiteboard
19:38:26 <dvg> M4B1
19:38:28 <MrsB> created*
19:39:02 <ca-on-adam> I added my entry to 'the list'
19:39:05 <MrsB> If you encounter a serious bug which is likely to block the release then also email qa-discuss about it and CC the person who built the ISO
19:39:11 <MrsB> thanks ca-on-adam
19:39:16 <ca-on-adam> I will ask somebody in this channel after the meeting.
19:39:37 <MrsB> Thomas (tmb) builds all the Live isos and Anne (ennael) builds the classic installer dvd's and the dualcd
19:40:07 <wilcal> Do you expect just a couple to begin with or all of them
19:40:12 <MrsB> DavidWHodgins is your timezone ca-on-adam, same area too I think
19:40:38 <MrsB> and Luigi12 is same timezone also, Wilcal is US on the other side IINM
19:41:24 <MrsB> tbh I don't know what to expect yet. Thomas is usually first but we should expect all of them within a few hours of each other
19:41:39 <DavidWHodgins> ca-on-adam: I'm in eastern timezone.
19:41:55 <wilcal> Your the same as NYC right David
19:42:01 <DavidWHodgins> Yep
19:42:49 <MrsB> Is there anything else on this before we move on?
19:43:02 <wilcal> Not from me
19:43:14 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here.
19:43:27 <MrsB> #topic Kernels
19:43:33 <MrsB> Here we go :)
19:43:59 <wilcal> Wow what a week
19:44:23 <wilcal> Many thanks to all, especially to MrsB, for helping me understand
19:44:28 <DavidWHodgins> I'm more concerned about the glibc update. Running the poc, before the update gets a segfault on i586 systems. After the update, it gets a hard cpu loop.
19:44:48 <MrsB> On the plus side the only updates which aren't waiting on packager input are the kernels at the moment so we get another ay to work on them before the ISOs arrive
19:45:02 <MrsB> day*
19:45:18 <MrsB> I saw your comment Dave, not tried it here yet
19:45:30 <ca-on-adam> DavidWHodgins: yes, I am also EST
19:45:36 <MrsB> I've been trying to keep the other bugs moving
19:45:36 <DavidWHodgins> The kernel updates should be held until glibc is ok too, as they are being tested together.
19:45:46 <wilcal> While I was finally successful with the nVidia thing I had the same failure with
19:45:56 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11463#c8
19:45:58 <[mbot> Bug 11463: normal, Normal, qa-bugs, qa-bugs, NEW , Update request: kernel-3.10.16-1.mga3, kernel-3.10.16-1.mga3
19:46:34 <wilcal> so the Vbox thing booted to a blank screen and I think David you said that was related to the glibc thing
19:46:57 <MrsB> #info From Dave's tests of glibc he found one of the PoC's causes a segfault so the kernels should be held until it is ready too
19:47:06 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, though iirc, it only affected m2 i586.
19:47:20 <MrsB> vbox only affected mga2?
19:47:30 <DavidWHodgins> And workaround was to restart the dm service.
19:47:42 <wilcal> It failed on M3 32-bit for me this morning just before this meeting
19:47:55 <DavidWHodgins> So it's inconsistent.
19:48:05 <wilcal> what is the command to restart the dm service?
19:48:41 <DavidWHodgins> service dm restart
19:48:50 <lewyssmith> DavidWHodgins: Where do you get the glibc POC to try?
19:48:50 <DavidWHodgins> Or "systemctl restart dm.service"
19:48:50 <ca-on-adam> newbie check: does poc mean proof-of-concept, does dm mean display manager ?
19:48:52 <MrsB> #info Mga2 i586 and possibly also mga3 i586 have issues in vbox.Boots to a blank screen.
19:49:10 <MrsB> #info workaround is to restart the DM
19:49:10 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Following the reference links
19:49:16 <wilcal> That's what I got this morning
19:49:17 <lewyssmith> OK
19:49:57 <MrsB> It's a shame roelof isn't here
19:50:10 <wilcal> He/she was really struggling
19:50:23 <wilcal> I get mad and persistant
19:50:24 <MrsB> #info I've asked packagers to test the kernels also but no luck there yet
19:50:39 <dvg> DWH not restart prefdm.service ?
19:50:39 <dvg> list-units does not show dm.service
19:50:58 <lewyssmith> If you get the hard CPU loop, can you still run system monitor to see it?
19:51:17 <dvg> but of course I do have Mga4 only
19:51:56 <MrsB> You can check if it's a hard lock or just the desktop not started by trying to switch to a tty (ctrl-alt-f2)
19:52:17 <MrsB> You can use the 'top' command on cli to show processes and cpu usage
19:52:18 <DavidWHodgins> I think systemd treats it as an alias for the proper service, for compatibilty with sysvinit.
19:52:26 <lewyssmith> ca-on-adam: You guessed right both times!
19:52:26 <dvg> okay
19:53:05 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Yes. It ties up one of my 4 cores. htop still works on another core.
19:53:25 <lewyssmith> I have 1...
19:54:04 <MrsB> if all else fails, hit the reset button :)
19:54:05 <DavidWHodgins> It would probably still run, just very slowly.
19:54:27 <DavidWHodgins> No. Alt+ctrl+sysrq RSEISUB
19:54:29 <MrsB> You might find REISUB works too
19:54:34 <MrsB> beaten again!
19:54:38 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:55:46 <dvg> DWH: alias is true in Mga4
19:55:51 <wilcal> If I've set the repos correctly shouldn't just updating with a
19:55:53 <wilcal> urpmi kernel-desktop-latest
19:55:54 <wilcal> catch everything?
19:56:01 <MrsB> no, it doesn't work like that
19:56:09 <wilcal> :-((
19:56:25 <wilcal> How do I know which packages to update with?
19:56:51 <MrsB> It depends on the strictness of the requires, if they are strictly requiring a specific version then yes it does, most of the time though they don't need to be that strict so it's a matter of ensuring you have everything and not forgetting the libs
19:56:56 <DavidWHodgins> rpm -qa|grep kernel|grep latest
19:57:01 <MrsB> Use MageiaUpdate
19:57:08 <dvg> safest way for me: ftp kernel-desktop and rpm -kV, plus rpm -ivh ker*
19:57:35 <MrsB> just enable the core udpates testing and nonfree updates testing and then run MageiaUpdate as root
19:57:38 <wilcal> This is really get'n complex to test
19:57:48 <MrsB> scroll through it and compare against the list on the bug
19:58:01 <MrsB> tick the ones you need and don't tick the others
19:58:04 <wilcal> That's what I did this morning and that was successful
19:58:24 <MrsB> yeah, but don't just tick everything. Only tick the ones listed on the bug
19:58:32 <ca-on-adam> i hope the above commands, or equivalent, are all written down somewhere.
19:58:43 <wilcal> Actaully it'll be untick the ones you don't want to update
19:58:49 <dvg> s/kV/Kv
19:58:50 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_process_for_validating_updates
19:59:11 <MrsB> You can actually click 'Select All' when everything is selected and it de-selects everything
19:59:37 <lewyssmith> Silly after all thsi time
19:59:56 <wilcal> There was only about 80 packages in updates_testing
20:00:19 <DavidWHodgins> Just checked my usage stats. 216GB so far this month. Might be because I'm over my 200GB limit.
20:00:28 <MrsB> MageiaUpdate only lists the updates for packages you already have installed
20:00:35 <wilcal> You and I are right about the same David
20:00:50 <MrsB> Ouch, they throttle you?
20:01:05 <wilcal> I don't get cut off I just get a bigger bill
20:01:06 <lewyssmith> Seems very likely
20:01:24 <DavidWHodgins> Might be. First time though, if it is what's happening.
20:01:29 <MrsB> 280Gb so far this month :\
20:01:48 <wilcal> Inside info told me Cox ( my ISP ) still  can't monitor individual usage
20:02:14 <MrsB> lewis are you managing with the kernels?
20:02:29 <lewyssmith> Question; wait a mo
20:02:33 <MrsB> k
20:02:46 <MrsB> spiky: you too?
20:03:11 <lewyssmith> If I habitually use just the desktop one, can I simply install a different one in addition to try?
20:03:21 <lewyssmith> And how to get it recognised by Grub?
20:03:21 <MrsB> yes
20:03:24 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: Yes.
20:03:42 <DavidWHodgins> It will add another entry to the grub/menu.lst files.
20:03:50 <lewyssmith> Automatically?
20:03:51 <DavidWHodgins> s /files/file/
20:04:03 <dvg> never replace it in tetsing !
20:04:10 <dvg> testing
20:04:11 <ca-on-adam> grub2 has some fancy-pants features
20:04:21 <MrsB> It will list them in grub with the kernel name and version. The alternate kernels don't automatically become the 'Boot mageia' link though so choose it specifically after you've installed it
20:04:23 <lewyssmith> I think this is Grub1
20:04:44 <dvg> mageia is lasted, can use drakboot --boot to change
20:05:00 <MrsB> kernel-linus is confuding because it doesn't show rt or tmb etc, it just shows as the version
20:05:01 <dvg> or easy is text  edit /boot/grub/menu.lst if careful
20:05:05 <MrsB> confusing*
20:05:16 <DavidWHodgins> In grub2, selecting which kernel to boot requires using the "advanced" option. In grub legacy, it shows all of the installed kernels.
20:05:16 <dvg> s/lasted/latest
20:06:41 <lewyssmith> If I add a different kernel, anything else to add also?
20:06:42 <MrsB> With all the alternative kernels apart from the desktop/server ones with prebuilt binary modules for things like nvidia, vbox, fglrx, broadcom you need to use the dkms packages which are then built at the next boot (and take a while to build)
20:07:17 <lewyssmith> I have none of those thing
20:07:22 <MrsB> dkms packages also require the kernel devel packages to be installed to be able to build
20:07:37 <dvg> or follow dkms --help
20:08:04 <MrsB> yes, you can use 'dkms status' to show you a list, but it's a cunfusing list.
20:08:07 <wilcal> There's almost an infinite number of possibilities
20:08:13 <lewyssmith> I'll try the server one for starters
20:08:27 <dvg> should use same as desktop*
20:08:32 <dvg> sorry kernel*
20:08:53 <MrsB> yeah, install any relevant nvidia-kernel-server-latest or broadcom-wl-kernel-server-latest etc with it
20:09:00 <dvg> soif you hv kernel-desktop, you need those. server if server
20:09:35 <MrsB> #if you get stuck, please ask for help on IRC or the ML
20:09:41 <MrsB> oops
20:09:53 <MrsB> #info if you get stuck, please ask for help on IRC or the ML
20:10:00 <lewyssmith> I try the IRC, not wlays with success
20:10:10 <MrsB> you need to linger a bit
20:10:15 <lewyssmith> I do
20:10:25 <MrsB> we have lives too :)
20:10:38 <lewyssmith> As do we all
20:10:45 <MrsB> not much of one mind you :D
20:10:47 <dvg> i got just the one
20:11:01 <dvg> (not a cat)
20:11:14 <MrsB> Is there anythign else to add on the kernels?
20:11:43 <wilcal> Just a lot of time and testing
20:11:47 <MrsB> yep
20:12:02 <wilcal> Basic question
20:12:11 <MrsB> #info It's important that everybody tests as this is a version bump
20:12:14 <wilcal> why bump up to 3.10 anyway
20:12:22 <MrsB> read your mind
20:12:43 <MrsB> We tend to stick with the LTS kernels
20:12:52 <wilcal> why not just leave it alone. M4 is using 3.10
20:13:05 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: The bug and security fixes are not available as patches for the older kernel.
20:13:23 <wilcal> Did we expect all this?
20:13:28 <MrsB> When support is running out or things are easier to maintain in the newer kernel it's better/easier to maintain if we move version
20:13:34 <DavidWHodgins> Yep
20:13:35 <ca-on-adam> dvg: pretty sure even cats have on life at a time
20:13:54 <lewyssmith> dvg: You made me laugh
20:13:55 <dvg> mga4 has 3.12
20:14:08 <wilcal> I see Firefox 24 in updates_testing and that's a very good thing too
20:14:42 <MrsB> yes, but if you test that now, remember we will need to test that it upgrades from 17 later
20:14:59 <wilcal> So I can expect at least another week or so working on kernel stuff
20:15:01 <MrsB> when they settle on a version
20:15:08 <MrsB> nooo
20:15:20 <wilcal> FF 22+ use hardware acceleration 17 does not
20:15:24 <MrsB> you can expect another day or so, then ISO testing, then kernels again
20:16:16 <MrsB> we have mageia2 kernels to test too
20:16:39 <wilcal> I needed to have some success somewhere somehow before moving on
20:16:53 <MrsB> Glad you got it worked out
20:17:18 <MrsB> Anything else on kernels or shall we move on?
20:17:24 <wilcal> not from me
20:17:33 <lewyssmith> On!
20:17:43 <MrsB> yep, quite enough kernels for one day
20:17:52 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's Roundup
20:18:08 <MrsB> #info David sent email to the ML as he is out running today
20:18:49 <MrsB> #info Luigi12 says.. "For what's on the horizon, I'm still waiting on a patched polarssl update for Mageia 3 from Oden, and the next round of Java updates is coming"
20:19:21 <MrsB> That's about all there is to the roundup this week \o/
20:19:29 <MrsB> nothing to scary there :)
20:20:26 <MrsB> Any comments or anything to add?
20:21:14 <MrsB> #topic Anything else?
20:21:17 <wilcal> not from me
20:21:27 <lewyssmith> Nor me
20:21:28 <MrsB> Is there anything else?
20:21:44 <dvg> not here
20:21:44 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here.
20:21:51 <MrsB> T-5 then
20:21:55 <MrsB> 4..
20:21:57 <MrsB> 3..
20:21:59 <MrsB> 2..
20:22:02 <dvg> bfn
20:22:14 <lewyssmith> 'Bye
20:22:16 <MrsB> 1.. Thankyou all for coming. Same time next week (for those in the EU)!
20:22:17 <wilcal> bye all
20:22:23 <MrsB> #endmeeting