19:01:02 <MrsB> #startmeeting
19:01:02 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Apr 25 19:01:02 2013 UTC.  The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:02 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:01:20 <MrsB> Hi all, welcome to another QA meeting!
19:01:30 <MrsB> I have to warn you it's typo night again :)
19:01:37 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins
19:01:37 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB
19:01:39 <DavidWHodgins> #topoic Who's new?
19:01:57 <MrsB> #topic Who's new?
19:02:03 <MrsB> see :D
19:02:10 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:02:11 <MrsB> it's spreading
19:02:22 <MrsB> Is there anybody new here tonight?
19:02:54 <MrsB> JC_Stiegler: you just joined us didn't you
19:02:57 <JC_Stiegler> Yes, me
19:03:00 <Alf_K> not new but only new nick the old one hasbeen occupied by somebody else
19:03:00 <MrsB> :)
19:03:13 <MrsB> I noticed that alf :(
19:03:22 <MrsB> Welcome to the team JC_Stiegler
19:03:38 <JC_Stiegler> thank you
19:03:40 <MrsB> If you say a line to introduce yourself, the others will do the same
19:03:52 <MrsB> I'm Claire from the UK
19:04:13 <DavidWHodgins> I'm Dave Hodgins from London, Ontario, Canada.
19:04:18 <JC_Stiegler> I'm Jean-Claude, from France
19:04:21 <sebsebseb> hi
19:04:23 <sebsebseb> again
19:04:25 <MrsB> sebsebseb:
19:04:25 <lewyssmith> I am Lewis from France
19:04:32 <Kernewes> Carolyn from Cornwall, UK
19:04:35 <Alf_K> Alf from Germany
19:04:44 <sebsebseb> I am from England.
19:04:55 <wilcal> Wilcal ( Bill Kenney ) from Surf City USA San Diego California
19:04:57 <dvg> NL here
19:05:01 <MrsB> it's nice to know who you're talking to i think
19:05:14 <MrsB> How are you getting on so far JC_Stiegler?
19:05:15 * tmb is from Finland
19:05:21 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yeah, but your to much of a mystery for us to know who we are really talking to :d
19:05:29 <MrsB> hi tmb, didn't know you were here too
19:05:42 * MrsB has a question for tmb
19:05:46 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: you gotta be nice to MrsB now she's on the board
19:05:50 <tmb> Just one ?
19:05:58 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: heh heh she knows I am joking with her :)
19:06:03 <MrsB> maybe more :)
19:06:07 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: yeah:)
19:06:19 <MrsB> for the record, you don't have to be nice because I'm on the board :P
19:06:34 <JC_Stiegler> I'm an Old user of GNU/LInux, Mandriva and Mageia 13 years
19:06:56 <MrsB> Oh nice JC_Stiegler, you should be able to pick things up quickly then
19:07:12 <MrsB> have you been watching what's been going on on qa-bugs today?
19:07:23 <wilcal> Ahh back in the days of 8.x
19:08:08 <JC_Stiegler> I'm sorry, but my english is not very good, so I take time for understand...
19:08:13 <MrsB> It's ok
19:08:40 <MrsB> How are you managing with QA so far?
19:09:13 <Alf_K> JC_Stiegler: you'r not alone with that handicap :-)
19:09:39 <wilcal> English is a secondary language to all of us :-))
19:09:56 <DavidWHodgins> English is my only language.
19:09:59 <lewyssmith> All?
19:10:08 <Alf_K> DavidWHodgins: lucky one :)
19:10:13 <JC_Stiegler> I know that, but its not comfortable
19:10:38 <wilcal> I could never understand my Aunt from Massachusetts
19:10:38 <lewyssmith> From My Fair Lady: In America they haven't spoken it for years
19:10:57 <DavidWHodgins> translate.google.com is pretty good.
19:11:00 <dvg> Canada is not USA
19:11:29 <wilcal> Must be a bazillion dialects of English
19:12:11 <DavidWHodgins> My grandmothers were both from Scotland.  Once lost her accent.  The other didn't.
19:13:35 <MrsB> Anyway, if you have any questions whatsoever please don't hesitate to ask
19:13:46 <MrsB> lets move on
19:13:49 <JC_Stiegler> ok
19:13:52 <DavidWHodgins> #topic ISO testing
19:14:02 <MrsB> So how's it going?
19:14:20 <MrsB> There are new live isos to test please, so we can release them
19:14:36 <DavidWHodgins> I'll be testing them right after the meeting.
19:14:37 <wilcal> Are these for sure gonna be pretty stable
19:14:50 <wilcal> I think they've changed more then a few times
19:14:58 <MrsB> #info There are new live isos to test which have fixes for broadcom, can we prioritise these for the moment please
19:14:59 <sebsebseb> I thoughtg RC was all released, been out of things Mageiawise quite a bit the last two weeks or so to be honest, since other things
19:15:11 <lewyssmith> Not bad for i586 DVD; but still no joy in getting the x64 DVD recognised to boot (EFI)
19:15:17 <DavidWHodgins> Only classical installer was released.
19:15:19 <wilcal> I don't think RC is officially released yet
19:15:25 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: oh so LIve CD's still need testing hmm
19:15:31 <dvg> i'm tetsing classical iso right now (final pre release) but release notes are incomplete
19:15:32 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
19:15:38 <MrsB> RC was another partial release, it was pushed out without live isos
19:15:53 <wilcal> Classical works fine for me so noted in pad
19:15:58 <MrsB> We'd like to be able to release the live isos to get wider testing of the broadcom fixes
19:16:03 <sebsebseb> fine I'll download the GNOME  Live CD, and do something with it then I guess :)
19:16:39 <MrsB> #info Please remember to note on the pad which ones you are testing and raise bugs for any you find, then leave comments and bug number on the pad
19:16:54 <wilcal> FWIW i did a new install of Cauldron just a couple hours ago and that went just fine
19:17:01 <wilcal> boot.iso source
19:17:10 <MrsB> http://bn.parinux.org/p/mageia3rc
19:17:11 <[mbot> [ Etherpad Lite ]
19:17:37 <dvg> and http://bn.parinux.org/p/mageia3rc-after
19:17:39 <[mbot> [ Etherpad Lite ]
19:18:00 <MrsB> I know it's been a lot of work to get this far already but we're nearly there now
19:18:30 <sebsebseb> yep we need the RC fully released otherwise, well I guess no final on the 3rd may,  oh and that weekend Debian Wheezy is coming out I read, would be good if we could release before I guess :d won't matter much either way though
19:18:40 <sebsebseb> and yeah Ubuntu 13.04 was today
19:18:41 <MrsB> thanks dvg, the -after pad is for the new classic dvd's and dualcd which anne built just for tests
19:18:48 <dvg> yup
19:18:54 <MrsB> #info the -after pad is for the new classic dvd's and dualcd which anne built just for tests
19:19:07 <lewyssmith> I have notice that some things I find wrong auto-correct with newer ISOs or sytem updates
19:19:27 <MrsB> they only correct if they get reports :)
19:19:56 <lewyssmith> In theroy; but i stand by y comment
19:20:02 <MrsB> Is everybody OK with testing so far?
19:20:09 <wilcal> I see they finally fixed the double request to quit from the MCC
19:20:16 <MrsB> \o/
19:20:29 <MrsB> that was a bit windows-ish for a while
19:20:36 <lewyssmith> MCC -= Marylebone Cricket Club?
19:20:49 <sebsebseb> so when are the RC Live CD's meant to get released?  tommorow day after?
19:20:52 <MrsB> Mageia Control Center
19:21:02 <DavidWHodgins> Hopefully tomorrow.
19:21:08 <MrsB> sebsebseb: as soon as they're all tested
19:21:14 <sebsebseb> ok
19:21:40 <MrsB> it's why it's important to keep the pad updated, so we know if there are isos which haven't been tested yet
19:22:09 <MrsB> Anybody any questions or comments ?
19:22:19 <sebsebseb> nope
19:22:25 <wilcal> Nope looks like tomorrow for official release of RC
19:22:48 <sebsebseb> actsauly one question
19:22:50 <sebsebseb> I know kind of early, but
19:22:56 <sebsebseb> is May 3rd relastic really ?
19:22:58 <sebsebseb> for final
19:22:58 <wilcal> M3 looks very clean here
19:22:59 <MrsB> #info This can be a useful guide when doing your tests at this stage https://ethercalc.org/mga3a1-DVD-32-KDE.html
19:23:18 <MrsB> depends on testing sebsebseb
19:23:19 <Alf_K> yeah, very mature for me
19:23:25 <sebsebseb> heh ok
19:23:33 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebseb: Council meeting on Monday will decide.
19:23:38 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: yep
19:24:03 <sebsebseb> ,but if the RC ISO's for Live CD's are just coming out soon,  we still need final ones to test I guess
19:24:17 <MrsB> we still have a week
19:24:21 <sebsebseb> ok
19:24:29 <MrsB> it's going to be a busy week for everybody
19:24:42 <sebsebseb> I think this is the big important one to be testing everyone :d
19:24:49 <MrsB> is there anything else on this before we move on?
19:24:49 <sebsebseb> we are  stuck with the final for 18 months after all before it goes end of life
19:25:02 <DavidWHodgins> Not here.
19:25:09 <Alf_K> na
19:25:10 <sebsebseb> nope
19:25:20 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Updates testing day
19:25:27 <sebsebseb> and only so much can be updated after release or whatever
19:25:29 <sebsebseb> ok next topic yep
19:25:38 <MrsB> Ahh yes, so now we're all busy doing one thing.. :D
19:25:52 <MrsB> We're getting a bit behind with updates
19:26:18 <MrsB> I thought we could maybe dedicate a day, take a day out from ISo testing, to catch up with some updates
19:26:26 <DavidWHodgins> http://mageia.madb.org/tools/updates
19:26:28 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db ]
19:26:38 <MrsB> obviously after the live ISOs are out though
19:26:46 <MrsB> wdyt?
19:26:58 <lewyssmith> I have nothing to 'update'
19:27:00 <sebsebseb> MrsB: a day out of ISO testing could delay the final though heh heh, but probably woudn't make much difference if any realy at this stage
19:27:18 <MrsB> lewyssmith: the update candidates wait in updates testing for us to validate them
19:27:42 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_process_for_validating_updates
19:27:48 <DavidWHodgins> Assuming live iso testing is completed in the next 6 hours or so, I'm planning on nothing but updates testing for tomorrow.
19:27:59 <lewyssmith> I meant I have no Mag2
19:28:04 <MrsB> ahh ok
19:28:22 <MrsB> well after release we'll be getting updates for 3 and 2 at the same time
19:28:30 <DavidWHodgins> Most updates can be tested in VirtualBox.
19:28:50 <sebsebseb> oh forgot to ask something beofre actsualy, is Grub 2 ok in the RC  ISO's now or not?  as in it installs ok and such
19:28:53 <Luigi12_work> plus it's good to get some testing in this week so if any issues in the mga2 packages affect mga3 they can possibly be fixed
19:29:02 <MrsB> yes, that brings me back to my question for tmb Dave
19:29:09 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebseb: Nope.
19:29:11 <Alf_K> no probs with grub2 to me
19:29:20 <wilcal> I'm having no problem with grub2 except the MCC can't modify it
19:29:39 <wilcal> System seems to boot quicker with grub2
19:29:46 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebseb: At least, not with the live iso images.
19:29:53 <Alf_K> and looks cleaner :)
19:29:55 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: it won't install propery from the Live's ?
19:30:02 <MrsB> tmb: I was asked if x11-server could be tested in vbox (https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9790) and didn't really know, but said you would do :)
19:30:04 <[mbot> Bug 9790: normal, Normal, qa-bugs, qa-bugs, NEW , x11-server new security issue CVE-2013-1940, x11-server-1.11.4-2.1.mga2.src.rpm
19:30:11 <DavidWHodgins> No.  The postinstall scriplet fails.
19:30:17 <sebsebseb> ah
19:30:26 * sebsebseb would persoanlly want to be running Mageia 3 with Grub 2 :)
19:30:38 <MrsB> Guys, this is the bit for updates :P
19:30:49 <sebsebseb> ok back on topic then
19:30:57 <Luigi12_work> MrsB: is there a PoC for the x11-server thing?
19:31:01 <wilcal> I've been running 64-bit M3 grub2 in my working laptop for more then a month
19:31:25 <MrsB> What do you think to taking a day out of ISo testing to catch up on some updates after Live ISOs are released?
19:31:40 <MrsB> Luigi12_work: no idea
19:31:52 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yes I Think a good idea, as long as it doesnt' make the final get delayed, butg I supopuse the new ISO's need making anyway, the final candidates or whatever, that takes time
19:32:20 <Luigi12_work> MrsB: well if you just mean general testing, then yes you could test it in virtualbox, although obviously it's good to test x11-server in real hardware, in this case since it's just a patch it's not quite so important.  How did we test it for the previous security update for it?
19:32:30 <sebsebseb> MrsB: whilst that people can test updatse,  I joined (or kind of) more to test ISOs',
19:32:37 <MrsB> If we don't validate updates guys we don't get updates.
19:32:56 <DavidWHodgins> POC https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63353
19:32:57 <[mbot> Nothing found with the default search.
19:33:09 <lewyssmith> FWIW I have done a few system updates on my i586 multi-desktop M3RC installation
19:33:51 <MrsB> Is there anybody going to help with updates?
19:34:01 <Luigi12_work> ahh, Latte actually had a PoC for the last update https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6744
19:34:02 <DavidWHodgins> I'll be testing it on real hardware.
19:34:03 <[mbot> Bug 6744: minor, Low, qa-bugs, qa-bugs, RESOLVED FIXED, x11-server new security issue CVE-2012-2118, x11-server-1.10.1-1.1.mga1.src.rpm
19:34:03 <bozonius> hi
19:34:14 <MrsB> hi bozonius
19:34:22 <wilcal> All my testing is on real hardware, three different platforms
19:34:38 <Luigi12_work> DavidWHodgins: just FYI there will be a qemu update coming once I get it pushed in Cauldron
19:34:39 <sebsebseb> MrsB: hmm if I could fix the package manager or whatever went wrong on my netbooks's Mageia 2 install, well I could do some udpates testing there really I guess for example
19:34:52 * MrsB gives up
19:34:57 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Ouch! I hate qemu. :-)
19:35:00 <Luigi12_work> :o)
19:35:15 <Kernewes> MrsB: I don't know where to start with the current update ones
19:36:17 <DavidWHodgins> Java, webmin, an clamav should all be pretty easy to test.  Just ensure they work.
19:36:25 <DavidWHodgins> s /an/and/
19:36:31 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's Roundup
19:36:37 <Luigi12_work> boo
19:36:38 <wilcal> I've testing the webmin thing in the past
19:36:52 <MrsB> Over to you Luigi12_work, not that tanybody is interested in testing them :\
19:36:53 * Luigi12_work guesses we could call this segment Luigi's Haunted Mansion...
19:37:01 <Luigi12_work> yeah seriously :o(
19:37:24 * bozonius has come late to the dance
19:37:40 * MrsB boogies
19:37:54 <MrsB> What you got for us Luigi12_work?
19:38:01 <Luigi12_work> well let's go through them
19:38:16 <Luigi12_work> Java 7 was tested on 64, just needs 32, it's real easy to test, just running a couple Java programs
19:38:44 <lewyssmith> Tell more
19:38:51 <Luigi12_work> ekiga can be tested, we just need to get a sysadmin to remove ptlib so it can be rebuilt for missing signature, but it'd be good to know if it works, someone did have an issue in Cauldron
19:38:55 <MrsB> #info java7 just needs 32bit a test, easy one to do just run a couple of java progs
19:39:15 <wilcal> Suggest a java program
19:39:21 <lewyssmith> Tanks!
19:39:23 <Luigi12_work> see the bug for more info
19:39:26 <Luigi12_work> (java)
19:39:37 <Luigi12_work> we have a QA testing procedure with two Java programs to use I believe
19:39:56 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9775#c4
19:39:58 <[mbot> Bug 9775: critical, Normal, qa-bugs, qa-bugs, NEW , java-1.7.0-openjdk new security issues fixed in IcedTea 2.3.9, java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.6-2.3.8.4.mga3.src.rpm
19:40:01 <Luigi12_work> subversion the update impacts the mod_dav_svn Apache module, so we need to find a test procedure for that
19:40:12 <Kernewes> it isn't marked as has procedure
19:40:19 <Luigi12_work> might need to put out a call for help to see if anyone knows how to use it
19:40:39 <MrsB> #info A good tip to find testing procedures is to click on 'bugzilla' link on the madb page http://mageia.madb.org/tools/updates
19:40:41 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db ]
19:41:04 <Luigi12_work> webmin I finally fixed the issue MrsB found, so hopefully people have been otherwise testing it over the last few months and it works fine, so it can be pushed really...I believe it's noarch
19:41:28 <wilcal> no 64-bit webmin
19:42:08 <Luigi12_work> util-linux it took me a while to get around to rediffing the patch and doing that update, but it's a low severity issue.  However the PoC is just a few commands right in the bug, really easy to test.  I also fixed the uuidd issue found by MrsB, which is also easy to test (see her comment).  So that one is really easy for anyone to test and validate.
19:42:27 <MrsB> #info subversion the update impacts the mod_dav_svn Apache module, so we need to find a test procedure for that
19:43:06 <Luigi12_work> sssd was updated to the 1.8 branch, so some more thorough testing with that would be good
19:43:17 <MrsB> #info webmin is noarch so could be pushed, be nice to get a test on 64bit though
19:43:39 <MrsB> Luigi12_work: any progress on finding out how to test that?
19:43:42 <bozonius> webmin is all perl isn't it?
19:43:48 <Luigi12_work> I think someone found some RH QA testing procedures for sssd
19:44:12 <MrsB> i don't think we've managed to get the daemon to start yet
19:44:15 <DavidWHodgins> I'll make sssd my top priority, after the live isos.
19:44:25 <Luigi12_work> MrsB: I don't think anyone's tried sssd since I updated it
19:44:29 <MrsB> ok
19:44:44 <Luigi12_work> MrsB: originally I patched 1.7.0, but now it's the newest 1.8.x version
19:44:59 <Luigi12_work> a stable branch that's actually supported upstream
19:45:02 <MrsB> #info sssd has been updated to 1.8.x now so may have more luck with it
19:45:09 <MrsB> wow :o
19:45:29 <MrsB> morning wrw105 Stormi
19:45:36 <wrw105> Hiya MrsB
19:45:41 <Stormi> hi :)
19:45:47 <MrsB> :)
19:45:49 <Luigi12_work> drupal has been sitting in updates_testing for like 6 weeks waiting for Funda to confirm it's ready for QA.  So it'd be nice to get on that one soon.
19:45:58 <MrsB> ok
19:46:13 <MrsB> do you want to raise priority of drupal
19:46:21 <Luigi12_work> probably a good idea
19:46:36 <DavidWHodgins> Also Bug 7477
19:46:37 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7477 normal, Normal, fundawang, fundawang, NEW , /usr/bin/expectk is missing from the 64bit package, expect-5.43.0-20.mga2.src.rpm
19:46:56 <Luigi12_work> yeah Funda's been less active lately
19:47:01 <DavidWHodgins> Have to get Funda to remember to assign to qa when ready for testing.
19:47:06 <MrsB> #info drupal has been waiting to be assigned for a number of weeks so is a priority for us
19:47:11 <Luigi12_work> probably bored out of his skull since we're in deep freeze in Cauldron
19:47:35 <wilcal> 4-weeks after release cauldron goes crazy
19:47:55 <MrsB> Updates will go crazy soon after release too
19:48:43 <MrsB> anything else Luigi12_work, anything in the works?
19:48:44 <Luigi12_work> roundcubemail I just raised the severity, since I hadn't properly set it yet
19:49:40 <Luigi12_work> apache-mod_security I just raised the severity, since I hadn't properly set it yet
19:50:25 <DavidWHodgins> For roundcuemail, what about the comment "If it does, that should be fixed in the %files list."
19:50:29 <wrw105> Looks like Yahoo isn't dragging its feet on qa-bugs any more...
19:50:39 <MrsB> Yay \o/
19:51:22 <Luigi12_work> DavidWHodgins: nothing that needs addressed immediately
19:51:29 <DavidWHodgins> Ok
19:51:51 <wilcal> Like to dicuss the m2 -> m3 upgrade situation before we're done
19:52:06 <MrsB> yep, we'll have 'anything else' in a minute
19:52:17 <Luigi12_work> x11-server issue is marked medium (which I call major) severity but low priority because the vulnerability requires physical access, so that would be somewhere between normal and major.  DavidWHodgins posted a PoC link for that one to test it.
19:52:47 <Luigi12_work> clamav nobody actually knows what security issues were fixed in the new version, so the severity is undetermined.
19:52:56 <MrsB> it can theoretically be tested in vbox wrw105
19:53:03 <MrsB> better on real hw though
19:53:36 <wrw105> Thanks MrsB....I had just started typing that question.  I do the vm first to make sure I still get a desktop, then try on the iron.
19:54:29 <Luigi12_work> and as I mentioned earlier, a qemu update is coming soon...likely tomorrow.  It will be marked as "major" as well.
19:54:35 <Luigi12_work> that's everything.  Any questions?
19:54:41 <DavidWHodgins> Not here.
19:54:41 <MrsB> clamav can be tested with eicar test file http://www.eicar.org/85-0-Download.html
19:54:43 <[mbot> [ Download ° EICAR - European Expert Group for IT-Security ]
19:55:02 <MrsB> #info qemu update coming soon..
19:55:21 <MrsB> Thanks for that Luigi12_work
19:55:25 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else?
19:55:31 <bozonius> bug 9524
19:55:31 <wilcal> Good job Luigi
19:55:33 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9524 normal, Normal, thierry.vignaud, thierry.vignaud, NEW , No option to select bootloader if installed to RAID
19:56:17 <DavidWHodgins> Right now, it forces lilo, which works ok.  Any situation where lilo doesn't work?
19:56:27 <MrsB> yep, virtualbox
19:56:37 <bozonius> what if someone already has grub1 installed on a multiboot?
19:57:02 <DavidWHodgins> grub legacy doesn't work with raid, which is why the installer forces lilo.
19:57:10 <bozonius> yes it does!
19:57:16 <wilcal> I seem to remember the boot/RAID thing has had problems all the way back to Mandrake
19:57:31 <bozonius> May I clarify this?  I've worked on this extensively
19:57:34 <DavidWHodgins> I've tested raid in vb, with / on raid, no separate /boot, and it worked fine.
19:57:41 <wilcal> Had to have a boot drive and the RAID was seperate
19:57:54 <bozonius> nope
19:58:05 <MrsB> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9848
19:58:07 <[mbot> Bug 9848: major, Normal, tmb, tmb, NEW , Kernel panic i586 - Installed from live iso with lilo in vbox
19:58:07 <bozonius> I have my iron set up with multiboot on grub1
19:58:30 <bozonius> my iron is RAID1 on every partition
19:58:37 <bozonius> boots all of them
19:58:41 <wilcal> k
19:58:48 <bozonius> yep, it works
19:58:51 <bozonius> np
19:58:57 <wilcal> software RAID or hardware RAID
19:59:02 <bozonius> software RAID.
19:59:03 <bozonius> now
19:59:11 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: Ah. i586 only.
19:59:17 <wilcal> can you conjure up a hardware RAID
19:59:22 * tmb is testing 9848 right now
19:59:23 <MrsB> yes, it seemed to be
19:59:32 <wilcal> seems to me I ran into a problem(s) years ago
19:59:39 <bozonius> me too, wilcal
19:59:45 <bozonius> that's why I know so much about it
19:59:52 <MrsB> I haven't tested with the new live's yet tmb
19:59:56 <bozonius> it is grub2 that has a problem with RAID, not grub1 !!!!
20:00:23 <tmb> MrsB: I have, and I can reproduce it
20:00:28 <MrsB> :( sorry
20:00:31 <bozonius> grub2's os-prober was buggy and could not find legit boot partitions for other systems
20:00:50 <MrsB> yep barjac fixed that :)
20:01:08 <wilcal> FWIW my video editing box ( m2 ) is SSD no RAID needed
20:01:09 <bozonius> to me, MrsB?
20:01:17 <MrsB> os-prober, yes
20:01:26 <bozonius> that's been fixed for grub2?
20:01:34 <MrsB> believe so yes
20:01:42 <Luigi12_work> only grub2 uses os-prober
20:01:43 <bozonius> then what the heck?  time to party with grub2
20:01:59 <wilcal> Ya grub2 works pretty good in m3
20:02:31 <bozonius> so why can't it be (at least) an option for m3 install on RAID1?
20:02:49 <MrsB> time i guess
20:02:50 <lewyssmith> Will there be a post-release discussion? I perceive major problems over this release. And install issues re all Linux's. Prefer sounding opinions.
20:03:15 <lewyssmith> Sorry! That went too soon.
20:03:23 <MrsB> what sort of major problems lewyssmith?
20:03:36 <MrsB> if you find bugs please create bug reports for them
20:03:37 <lewyssmith> When the other subject is done...
20:03:40 <Alf_K> but if grub2 will be the default bootloader ther must be an other tool for administration
20:03:40 <MrsB> ok
20:03:52 <tmb> bozonius: M3 is not released yet...
20:03:53 <Luigi12_work> grub2 is not default
20:04:01 <Alf_K> grub customizer is not that easy to use
20:04:01 <bozonius> tmb: I know  :)
20:04:13 <tmb> Alf_K: grub2 will not be default, only an option
20:04:20 <bozonius> right tmb
20:04:26 <bozonius> exactly what we are looking for
20:04:31 <Alf_K> i know tmb
20:04:35 <MrsB> it would need to look considerably prettier before it became default i think :D
20:04:58 <bozonius> might not want to update users to grub2 if their other systems are set on grub1, or maybe they don't want to go yet
20:05:14 <Luigi12_work> it won't
20:05:24 <bozonius> be nice if our installer could detect which bootloader is already in use and stay with that
20:05:28 <Luigi12_work> it does
20:05:31 <sebsebseb> tmb: even if Grub 2 is jsut an option
20:05:35 <sebsebseb> tmb: wil it work properly or not is the thing
20:05:37 <sebsebseb> or enough ;)
20:05:53 <MrsB> it does do now sebsebseb
20:06:00 <bozonius> sebsebseb, read back in the log here
20:06:05 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebseb: Right now, it's working for clasical installer, but not for install from live iso.
20:06:08 <MrsB> there was an issue with nokmsboot setting though iinm
20:06:12 <tmb> yeah we could drop it too, it's way too "dumb when trying to be clever"
20:06:12 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins:  ah
20:06:15 <bozonius> apparently -- and I did not know -- this has been fixed, as per MrsB
20:06:26 <Luigi12_work> grub2 is a crazy rat's nest :o)
20:06:48 <wilcal> a fast rat too
20:06:54 <bozonius> grub1 is confusing and weird enough.  Whydoes the world need more?
20:06:54 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: ideally should work for Live CD's to, but if not for final, going to have to either remove the option from Live CD's, or make it realy clear tou sers else where I Think
20:07:10 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: thing is how many users really read the erratta or release notes for example, right not that many probably
20:07:23 <bozonius> yes! sebsebseb +10
20:07:26 <Luigi12_work> if they're doing the upgrade themselves, they better read it
20:07:33 <bozonius> No Luigi12_work
20:07:45 <lewyssmith> We are going to have to live with Grub2
20:07:48 <bozonius> forget that.  They don't, they won't, they will not
20:07:51 <Luigi12_work> all we can do is give them the info, nothing we can do if they're too lazy/irresponsible to use it
20:08:01 <MrsB> work is ongoing on grub2 on live isos
20:08:08 <sebsebseb> I don't see why if neassrey the classical installer can offer the option of Grub 2, where as the Live CD's don't have that option
20:08:09 <Luigi12_work> well then they can break their systems
20:08:09 <bozonius> it's not about lazy irresponsible, nogood-for-nuffin
20:08:15 <Luigi12_work> yes it is
20:08:16 <bozonius> no, we can
20:08:22 <Luigi12_work> that's why we bother to write release notes and errata
20:08:34 <Luigi12_work> because some things just have to be documented, some things you need to be aware of
20:08:37 <bozonius> that's very kind of us, but I don't think users give a
20:08:44 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebseb: It's due to it's post-install scriptlet doing the stuff that's normally done by bootloader config.
20:08:47 * bozonius censors himself
20:08:49 <Luigi12_work> well then they only have themselves to blame if something goes wrong
20:08:58 <bozonius> Luigi12_work
20:08:58 <Luigi12_work> we can't go over their houses and do the upgrades for them
20:09:04 <bozonius> in an ideal world
20:09:13 <bozonius> people would read the manuals.
20:09:14 <sebsebseb> same with  propritary software lisence agreements, how many users realy read all that?  ok I do, I go through them, but most users no
20:09:15 <bozonius> first.
20:09:19 <sebsebseb> they just click accept
20:09:20 <Luigi12_work> this isn't about a manual
20:09:33 <bozonius> release notes, manuals, whatever
20:09:34 <MrsB> server admins read erratas, joe users just expect it to work, they are our focus - or should be
20:09:38 <Luigi12_work> these things are not that long, not overly technical, they are what we are documenting as the things you need to know
20:09:41 <bozonius> right MrsB!
20:09:44 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yep bingo
20:09:53 <Luigi12_work> things can't always "just work"
20:10:18 <Luigi12_work> we do that as much as humanly possible, sometimes upstream changes dictate some things that need to be tended to manually or worked around
20:10:24 <bozonius> Luigi12_work: I am not against you, honestly.  It's just that I've done tech support, and I can assure you, users do NOT read
20:10:36 <Luigi12_work> that's why they need you to tech support them
20:10:42 <sebsebseb> Grub 2 has been around in distros such as Ubuntu for ages now,  a lot of LInux users are going to just expect it to work in Mageia now as a result
20:10:43 <bozonius> LOL
20:10:52 <sebsebseb> if we provide it I mean
20:10:53 <bozonius> no thanks, Luigi
20:11:00 <MrsB> can we move on, we've killed grub2 to death now
20:11:05 <bozonius> unless we charge $25 an hour
20:11:09 <wilcal> poor grub2
20:11:12 <Luigi12_work> sebsebseb: it doesn't always "just work" in Ubuntu either
20:11:15 <bozonius> MrsB, what is the resolution for M3?
20:11:16 <Luigi12_work> I've seen that first hand here
20:11:19 <sebsebseb> Luigi12_work: true
20:11:26 <MrsB> what resolution do you mean bozonius?
20:11:34 <sebsebseb> it does go wrong at times, but in general it's meant to just work,  and then fixes to be known if not etc etc
20:11:57 <Luigi12_work> sebsebseb: grub2 is a horribly complicated rat's nest, it's not easy to deal with when things go wrong
20:12:07 <sebsebseb> Luigi12_work: I agree with that
20:12:10 <bozonius> are we going to give a new user a heart attack when they think they've just lost their whole disk?
20:12:26 <bozonius> I mean, if the fix really does work, fine
20:12:43 <bozonius> but I havent seen the fix because it is not even an option
20:12:43 <DavidWHodgins> bozonius: We still default to grub legacy, unless raid is used, in which case it forces lilo.
20:12:48 <sebsebseb> if the optoin of Grub 2 is to buggy or whatever  for the Live media's then it should be removed from the Live medias as an option I think, if it works in the classical installer on theo ther hand, great, keep it there as an optoin :)
20:13:04 <MrsB> it's still necessary to manually choose grub2
20:13:06 <bozonius> DavidWHodgins:  I know.  That isn't the issue
20:13:18 <bozonius> (that's good MrsB)
20:13:20 <MrsB> sebsebseb: there is a week to go yet
20:13:24 <sebsebseb> MrsB: true, but users are still goign to expect it to work that do that,  asi n those that  didn't bother reading  the erratta etc
20:13:29 <MrsB> sebsebseb: there is a week to go yet
20:13:35 <sebsebseb> ok
20:13:36 <Luigi12_work> . o O (geeminy christmas qemu takes a long time to build...)
20:14:00 <MrsB> anythign else else that isn't grub2?
20:14:08 <bozonius> can we at least make grub1 an option  PLEEEEEEEEZ?
20:14:08 <MrsB> lewyssmith: ?
20:14:10 <sebsebseb> nope
20:14:19 <sebsebseb> bozonius: yes Grub 1 is default
20:14:22 <Luigi12_work> next meeting will be colocated with Kharec's company party
20:14:25 <Alf_K> one thing, please, optimus
20:14:27 <bozonius> not for RAID1
20:14:33 <MrsB> yeah, he had another party last night
20:14:44 <lewyssmith> I repeat my question about whether there will be a post-release post-mortem
20:14:45 <MrsB> #topic optimus
20:14:49 <MrsB> go Alf_K
20:15:15 <sebsebseb> lewyssmith: yes there will be a looking back at  the release thing after release
20:15:18 <MrsB> lewyssmith: yes we'll do that
20:15:18 <DavidWHodgins> lewyssmith: I expect so.  There was for Mageia 1 and 2.
20:15:22 <Alf_K> some ppl have probs to get a working GUI with optimus machines
20:15:55 <MrsB> optimus is with intel and nvidia graphics isn't it? (old computers here :\)
20:16:03 <bozonius> the release notes will say "Mageia 3 does not work on Optimus.  Return your unit to the store."
20:16:06 <Alf_K> i think wi's point out that nouveau should be rdblacklisted
20:16:22 <DavidWHodgins> It was during the post release review of Mageia 2, that the decision was made to include nonfree firmware on the iso images.
20:16:22 <MrsB> tmb any comment here?
20:17:11 <lewyssmith> Non-free stuff should *always* be offered if appropriate
20:17:28 <tmb> well, for optimus there has not been any real development so it wont work OOB
20:17:31 <sebsebseb> lewyssmith: well sure unless a 100% free software only distro of course :d
20:17:33 <sebsebseb> lewyssmith: for example
20:17:35 <Alf_K> setting xdriver-intel intel in kernel-command-line only doesn't often work
20:17:46 <MrsB> guys one topic at a time please or it's just too confusing
20:18:24 <tmb> the bumblebee "hack" will never get integrated
20:18:48 <Luigi12_work> is that still packaged?
20:18:57 <Luigi12_work> I know simplew8 had packaged it but then disappared
20:19:02 <Alf_K> i'm not talking about bumblebee thomas, only about getting a working gui
20:19:03 <tmb> nVidia has started working with upstream kernel & xorg developers to do it properly, so maybe for mga4...
20:19:37 <sebsebseb> oh Optimus is a nVidia card or ?
20:19:37 <Alf_K> and there nouveau makes often troubles
20:20:12 <tmb> Alf_K: well, it works on my laptop :), I boot Intel hw (and ignore the nVidia one :)
20:20:26 <MrsB> optimus has a low powered intel card and also a more powerful nvidia card in the same machine sebsebseb iinm
20:20:28 <Alf_K> to me also, thomas
20:20:41 <sebsebseb> MrsB: oh and what's iinm  ?
20:20:42 <Alf_K> but other ppl haven't
20:21:02 <Alf_K> and blacklisteing nouveau can help
20:21:11 <sebsebseb> yeah Nvidia cards used to be so great or kind of,  if didn't mind the proprityar driver, but now hmm,  well let's put it this way, I have had loads of issues with Mageia and older Nvidia cards uh
20:21:24 <sebsebseb> and  nouveau doesn't really help the situation much if at all
20:21:41 <Alf_K> so let's point this out in release notes
20:21:48 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebseb: iinm == If I'm not mistaken.
20:21:55 <wilcal> nouveau does not do games very will on Mageia and nVidia cards
20:22:15 <wilcal> gotta use the nVidia driver
20:22:18 <sebsebseb> and then can't just get the propritayr driver working properly maybe and such uh,  so yeah I got two Nivida carded computers to test Mageia on, on real hardware soon for 3 :).
20:22:36 <tmb> sebsebseb: well, since nVidia is dropping support for older hw vs new kernel / xorg, there is only nouveau left... nothing we can do about that...
20:22:45 <sebsebseb> wilcal: yep, but have had issues with 2 trying to select that and such and so on uh.
20:23:02 <sebsebseb> tmb: oh are  they hmm?  this compuer is from March 2007 that I am currently on, and there's one down stairs from like 2008, both got Nvidia cards in them
20:23:23 <MrsB> Alf_K: if you want to add anything to release notes you can do btw, just add to the wiki page https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_3_Release_Notes
20:23:24 <Alf_K> there are the leagacy drivers from nvidia
20:23:42 <wilcal> My only nVidia box here is a GeForce GT 440 and that works pretty good
20:23:43 <Alf_K> for older hw
20:23:56 <sebsebseb> Alf_K: yeah, but  sometimes you try and select that, and you get noveau instead, or at least for me or whatever
20:24:18 <tmb> Alf_K: yes, we have packaged and use the ones that are available, but some older hw only have nouveau left
20:24:23 <wilcal> m3 installs nVidia driver and works fine
20:24:38 <Alf_K> yeah, but if you blaxklist nouveau there's no trouble with it
20:24:39 <sebsebseb> wilcal: Mageia 3 installs propritary Nvidia driver fine, uhmm I hope so :)
20:24:44 <MrsB> soon to be my older hw :(
20:24:49 <wilcal> it does for me seb
20:25:09 <MrsB> have we killed optimus to death now?
20:25:13 <DavidWHodgins> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/06/17/1415250/torvalds-slams-nvidias-linux-support
20:25:14 <[mbot> [ Torvalds Slams NVIDIA's Linux Support - Slashdot ]
20:25:23 <wilcal> no reason for me to upgrade as I don't do games
20:25:29 <Alf_K> well guys, the problem is not nvividia in general but optimus
20:25:33 <wilcal> only video editing
20:25:39 <tmb> MrsB: yeah, we are on a killing spree :)
20:25:40 <sebsebseb> oh and keeps it installed as wel for that matter,  had a issue with this befoer with 2, i nstalled from the GNOME ISO,  had it working, did updates, and gone back to noveau.   yes I'll soon be testing some sort of Mageia 3  ISO properly on real Nvida hardware, since what I  am on about here
20:25:57 <DavidWHodgins> Let's wrap up and get back to testing.
20:26:15 <MrsB> sebsebseb: that's likely a separate issue, to do with nonfree repository not being added
20:26:26 <MrsB> #topic Anything else else?
20:26:32 <DavidWHodgins> Not here.
20:26:36 <sebsebseb> MrsB: I think it got deslected after or whatever happened at the time
20:26:40 <wilcal> upgrade testing
20:26:45 <MrsB> is there anything else else not grub2 or optimus
20:26:45 <sebsebseb> anything else not really, except that I got a netbook with a Intel graphics card to :d
20:26:57 <MrsB> #topic upgrade testing
20:27:01 <MrsB> go wilcal
20:27:05 <DavidWHodgins> Bug 9534 is holding things up a bit.
20:27:06 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9534 critical, release_blocker, mageia, mageia, NEW , dbus upgrades causes numerous blocked processes on upgrade from Mageia 2 to 3 (e.g. rtkit)., dbus-1.6.8-4.mga3.src.rpm
20:27:14 <wilcal> Am what I am doing relevant?
20:27:24 <MrsB> so far, yes
20:27:28 <wilcal> every two days m2 -> m3 upgrade
20:27:34 <MrsB> great \o/
20:27:35 <wilcal> will do it again today
20:27:42 <wilcal> lots of errors
20:27:49 <Luigi12_work> my boot.iso upgrade tests are going well
20:27:54 <wilcal> dbus upgrades causes numerous blocked processes on upgrade from Mageia 2 to 3 (e.g. rtkit)
20:27:54 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9534
20:27:54 <wilcal> would you rather me put the log files in 9534?
20:27:55 <[mbot> Bug 9534: critical, release_blocker, mageia, mageia, NEW , dbus upgrades causes numerous blocked processes on upgrade from Mageia 2 to 3 (e.g. rtkit)., dbus-1.6.8-4.mga3.src.rpm
20:28:02 <MrsB> things are changing quickly now so more upgrades the better
20:28:20 <wilcal> Not quite sure why I see the problems and Luigi does not
20:28:21 <MrsB> I saw coling working on that one today
20:28:28 <DavidWHodgins> Watch the bug reports you file. When there's a fix, test it.
20:28:34 <Luigi12_work> just FYI everyone, ptlib was rebuilt, so the ekiga update for Mageia 2 is really ready to test :o)
20:28:49 <wilcal> Will keep on going kuz I got the hardware test platforms here
20:28:51 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Saw that. Waiting for my local mirror to sync.
20:28:56 <wilcal> Yes
20:29:04 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: what mirror are you using?
20:29:13 <wilcal> mirrors.kernel.org
20:29:23 <Luigi12_work> hmm yeah that one should be good, I use that
20:29:29 <MrsB> anything else upgrades?
20:29:31 <Luigi12_work> well I mirror from it and make my own local one
20:29:34 <DavidWHodgins> I'm using my own, which usually syncs from mirrors.kernel.org.
20:29:44 <wilcal> If I'm gonna test I rsync right before the test
20:29:56 <Luigi12_work> ok
20:30:01 <DavidWHodgins> I'm using barjac's script to sync.
20:30:10 * Luigi12_work is using rpmsync
20:30:11 <wilcal> Early m3 rsync used to take hours now just minutes
20:30:18 <Luigi12_work> it's more efficient for mirroring Cauldron (rpmsync)
20:30:40 <MrsB> have we killed upgrades to death ?
20:30:58 <DavidWHodgins> Yep.  Let's get back to testing. :-)
20:31:00 <MrsB> #topic Anything else else else?
20:31:02 * Luigi12_work looks at all the bodies
20:31:10 <wilcal> rsync -aruH --delete  rsync://mirrors.kernel.org/mirrors/mageia/distrib/cauldron/i586/      /home/mageia/distrib/3/i586
20:31:25 <wilcal> I'm done
20:31:38 <Luigi12_work> r is redundant
20:31:40 <MrsB> Anyone else have anything?
20:31:55 * tmb have...
20:32:02 <MrsB> #chair tmb
20:32:02 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB tmb
20:32:14 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: try dropping the -u option, it might cause problems
20:32:18 <wilcal> I'll take the "r" out Luigi
20:32:40 <wilcal> take r & u out?
20:32:41 <tmb> just FYI... there will be a new kernel update landing for mga2 in the next few days too ....
20:32:45 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: yeah
20:32:50 <Luigi12_work> :O
20:32:58 <MrsB> #topic kernel update
20:33:01 <wilcal> So no more Russia ;-(
20:33:02 <MrsB> :(
20:33:17 <MrsB> :( <tmb> just FYI... there will be a new kernel update landing for mga2 in the next few days too ....
20:33:20 <Luigi12_work> is there a glibc update too?  I saw there were some security advisories for it today.
20:33:23 <wilcal> k
20:33:25 <DavidWHodgins> Security update?
20:33:27 <MrsB> #info <tmb> just FYI... there will be a new kernel update landing for mga2 in the next few days too ....
20:33:30 <MrsB> better
20:34:29 <tmb> yep, it has some accumulated security fixes (and some unnamed ones)...
20:34:44 <DavidWHodgins> Embargoed?
20:34:55 <MrsB> so we need two heads, four arms and about a dozen computers each :\
20:35:02 <DavidWHodgins> Lol
20:35:37 <tmb> DavidWHodgins: probably, I just read the commits, so I expect them to show up on oss-sec at some point :)
20:35:38 <Stormi> ping me when I'm at work if I haven't installed the update there :)
20:35:58 <Stormi> (me at work = stormi)
20:35:58 <MrsB> will do Stormi, thanks
20:36:13 <lewyssmith> I'm saying Goodbye
20:36:19 <MrsB> thanks Led43__Mag1
20:36:19 <wilcal> bye
20:36:24 <MrsB> oops lewyssmith
20:36:30 <wilcal> been a long qa discussion
20:36:35 <Luigi12_work> https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2013-0769.html
20:36:38 <MrsB> it has indeed
20:36:39 <[mbot> [ Red Hat Customer Portal ]
20:36:51 <tmb> I havent screened all fixes yet, but I will when I push it
20:36:58 * Luigi12_work hates rebooting
20:37:10 <MrsB> is the kernel killed to death now then too ?
20:37:15 <wilcal> Sometimes it don't come back Luigi
20:37:27 <Luigi12_work> maybe one day we'll have Oracle's Ksplice or something similar :o)
20:38:03 <MrsB> thanks tmb
20:38:06 <MrsB> let's wrap up
20:38:11 <tmb> nothing more from me :)
20:38:17 <MrsB> #topic Nothing else
20:38:18 <Kernewes> yeah, before we all get killed to death
20:38:24 <MrsB> Thanks all for being here
20:38:27 <wilcal> I'm good
20:38:34 <MrsB> it's been a long one
20:38:35 <Luigi12_work> w00t
20:38:36 <Kernewes> thanks MrsB
20:38:38 <tmb> Luigi12_work: I'll look at the glibc thingie
20:38:43 <wilcal> Thanks Luigi for the rsync tip
20:38:44 <Kernewes> goodnight everyone
20:38:51 <Alf_K> night all
20:38:53 <MrsB> Same time next week!
20:38:58 <Luigi12_work> wilcal: next I gotta get you on rpmsync :o)
20:38:58 <MrsB> #endmeeting