20:00:50 <MrsB> #startmeeting 20:00:50 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Dec 20 20:00:50 2012 UTC. The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:00:50 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00:59 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Who's new? 20:01:10 * sebsebseb thinks DavidWHodgins is new and MrsB 20:01:18 <MrsB> Hi everybody, welcome to another one :) 20:01:23 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins 20:01:23 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB 20:01:23 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone here today who hasn't been to an irc qa meeting? 20:01:34 <MrsB> #topic Who's new? 20:01:35 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: you weren't here last week when we decided we were all old veterans 20:01:44 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: I read the log of last week 20:01:53 <swecarp> o i did miss that also 20:01:57 <rindolf> MrsB: hi. 20:02:33 <MrsB> #info Auel started with us this week, he's interested in helping validating updates, you'll see him as Johan on bugzilla (clamtk, opera so far). Please help him out if he needs it! \o/ 20:02:40 <MrsB> hi rindolf 20:02:49 <sebsebseb> swecarp: you can read the log to then I guess :d 20:02:51 <rindolf> Hi all. 20:02:55 <Kernewes> rindolf: hi 20:03:06 <swecarp> sebsebseb: i did do that 20:03:08 <Kernewes> MrsB: great, another newcomer 20:03:13 <MrsB> yeah \o/ 20:03:40 <sebsebseb> oh yeah indeed rindolf is really new as well :d 20:04:01 <MrsB> Is there anybody else new this week? 20:04:01 <alfred__> wobo is new to the team, but dislikes to be in IRC-meetings 20:04:25 <wilcal> wobo goes way back into the Mandriva days 20:04:33 <sebsebseb> yep indeed he does 20:04:47 <MrsB> There were a few joined who started helping with ISo testing too yes, thanks for reming me alfred__ 20:04:49 <Luigi12_work> DavidWHodgins: tmb is here (if you want that opera pushed) 20:05:19 <DavidWHodgins> tmb Can you push Bug 8422 20:05:21 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8422 normal, Normal, qa-bugs, qa-bugs, NEW, Security update request for opera, to 12.12, opera 20:05:22 <wilcal> question here 20:05:41 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgins: something tells me, your probably the only or about the only person who uses Opera regulary with Mageia, but I could be completly wrong heh heh 20:05:49 <MrsB> tmb and links for bug 8260 please 20:05:50 <tmb> DavidWHodgins: wip 20:05:51 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8260 normal, Normal, qa-bugs, qa-bugs, REOPENED, cannot install vlc on Mageia2 (Bug 2317 - links required) 20:06:01 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: I use Opera regularly with Mageia 20:06:10 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: oh how come? 20:06:21 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: I like it 20:06:28 <MrsB> Dare we start in on beta 1? 20:06:30 <sebsebseb> oh ok :) and yeah it's nice, but FIrefox :) for example 20:06:30 <DavidWHodgins> sebsebseb: I've been using opera for many years, well before I started with linux. 20:06:37 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: I use Chromium and Firefox too, all for different things 20:06:39 <sebsebseb> oh ok @ DAVID 20:06:51 <sebsebseb> and Kernewes ok next topic I think :) 20:06:53 * rindolf uses primarily Firefox. 20:06:53 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Beta 1 - What went well, what could we improve, which bugs need a ping 20:06:58 <MrsB> thanks ! 20:07:09 <sebsebseb> and I use mainly Firefox since 0.8, Mozilal Suite a bit before that, anyway Beta 1 topic :) 20:07:17 <MrsB> I've been looking forward to this one because it's mostly over to you guys.. 20:07:38 <MrsB> what do you think went well, what didn't? 20:07:53 <Kernewes> I like the fact that there were several builds, it means that even if you're busy you can probably manage to test at least one 20:07:57 <sebsebseb> I think Grub 2 has been implemented interestingly from what I saw when I did vm trying 20:07:57 <DavidWHodgins> Only three builds. Yeah! Only overwrote gag on my mbr once. :-) 20:08:05 <sebsebseb> for example some text stuff when booting a kernel :) 20:08:16 <sebsebseb> I also think there should be the text only mode for Grub 2 later on before final release 20:08:21 <MrsB> I mean in what we did though, the QA testing 20:08:26 <wilcal> I think that the start up process of Grub 2 has to be de-techy'd 20:08:55 <wilcal> It looks like a 30 year old computer starting 20:08:58 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: yep indeed three builds, and yep should be able to test at least one even if busy, like you said 20:09:09 <DavidWHodgins> Grub 2 is a work in progress. That we know. It's working, but will need lots of attention. 20:09:42 <wilcal> I found it to be at least 2x faster starting them Grub 20:10:01 * sebsebseb hasn't done so yet, but will try it out on real hardware to, Beta 1 yeah :) 20:10:16 <MrsB> A number of people had problems with the email I sent out at the start of testing with all the details on it ending up in spam. I think that was my fault, I sent it with lots of people in the TO field instead of using BCC 20:10:28 <wilcal> FWIW all my testing has been on real hardware 20:10:41 <MrsB> #info A number of people had problems with the email I sent out at the start of testing with all the details on it ending up in spam. I think that was my fault, I sent it with lots of people in the TO field instead of using BCC 20:10:45 <sebsebseb> for Beta 2 probably do testing on real hardawre nice and early to :d 20:11:07 <wilcal> how many are testing using Vbox vs real hardware 20:11:18 * alfred__ tests on real hw too 20:11:26 <Kernewes> I started with VB this time because of GRUB2 being new 20:11:32 <Kernewes> usually do real hw as well 20:11:37 <sebsebseb> DavidWHodgin tests on both it seems 20:11:45 <sebsebseb> and thats what I would normally do to 20:11:48 <DavidWHodgins> I start testing in vb while the rest of the iso images are downloading, then once all iso images are downloaded, switch to testing on real hardware. 20:11:54 <sebsebseb> ,but new to ISO testing realy and so on, so yeah 20:12:08 <djennings> vb only so far 20:12:14 <DavidWHodgins> For grub2, I was only testing in vb, as I wasn't planning on overwriting my mbr. 20:12:19 <MrsB> It's normally all done on real hardware, it was unusual in alot of ways this time 20:12:22 <wilcal> FWIW I always Killdisk the drive then boot the ISO on a USB drive 20:12:23 <sebsebseb> well new to testing pre release of Mageia versions i should say 20:12:37 <sebsebseb> tested other development versions before :D 20:13:07 * MrsB munching mince pie 20:13:07 <DavidWHodgins> I only have one ssd drive, with 5 installations on it. 20:13:20 <wilcal> Your a brave man David 20:13:21 <sebsebseb> MrsB: oh so bad for you, heh heh 20:13:27 <MrsB> mmm 20:13:32 <Kernewes> MrsB: shut up 20:13:40 <MrsB> :P 20:13:48 <sebsebseb> yeah stop making Kernewes hungry :D 20:14:03 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: you're drooling too, admit it :) 20:14:08 <wilcal> Also I occasionally test the Live-CD/DVD with the HD in the system turned off 20:14:16 <sebsebseb> nope not at all 20:14:18 <MrsB> not bad either, tesco cheepies 20:14:20 * swecarp munches on home made fudge 20:14:25 <DavidWHodgins> For all of my iso testing, I use one install with an encrypted root filesystem. 20:14:26 <MrsB> ooo yum 20:14:36 <Kernewes> swecarp: yum 20:14:47 <sebsebseb> been feeling a bit unwell today, but eating something in a bit, anyway let's get back on topic :) 20:14:52 <Luigi12_work> someone must have forgotten to change the topic to food/dessert 20:14:59 <MrsB> Lets try and get back on topic for a minute, yeah 20:15:01 <Kernewes> I have laptops designated for testing but didn't want to mess with GRUB2 20:15:07 <swecarp> i did do some testing with the live session 20:15:32 <MrsB> so can we say we will do more testing on real hardware next time? 20:15:38 <Kernewes> yes 20:15:40 <MrsB> grub2 will be more mature 20:15:47 <wilcal> Mandriva/Mageia should be able to operate as a Diskless workstation 20:15:57 <Kernewes> wilcal: what's that? 20:16:01 <alfred__> didn't have any probs with grub2 20:16:11 <MrsB> What about the pad, how did you get on with it? 20:16:15 <Luigi12_work> was beta1 all fresh install testing, not upgrade testing? 20:16:22 <wilcal> A computer with no hard drive of any kind. It's a security thing 20:16:29 <Kernewes> wilcal: interesting 20:16:33 <sebsebseb> now that Grub 2 is more properly implemented, in Beta 1, well yeah I'll be testing out on real hardware, but not just yet 20:16:38 <MrsB> it was this time Luigi12_work, mainly getting it to work 20:16:49 <MrsB> it was more of an alpha than the alpha's 20:16:52 <Luigi12_work> does upgrade testing start with beta2 or later? 20:16:54 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: This time yes. I'll start upgrade testing soon. 20:17:02 <Kernewes> I had hoped to try upgrade testing but didn't manage to find time 20:17:03 <MrsB> we tested with 3a3 20:17:08 <Luigi12_work> ahh ok 20:17:40 <sebsebseb> MrsB: yeah Beta 1 was like an alpha in some ways, but like a Beta to by being more feature complete 20:17:44 <DavidWHodgins> Upgrade testing is more about ensuring all packages have proper obsoletes, etc. Doesn't have much impact on the installer itself. 20:17:46 <MrsB> it was strange this time, alot of time was spent waiting for dev to finish between releases 20:18:01 <sebsebseb> MrsB: or kind of feature complete 20:18:33 <MrsB> so, the pad, what did you all think? 20:18:40 <sebsebseb> I think the pad got a bit messy 20:18:41 <sebsebseb> over the time 20:18:42 <sebsebseb> hard to follow 20:18:46 <Kernewes> that's what I thought 20:19:02 <MrsB> yes i agree, it wasn't kept updated very well this time 20:19:04 <sebsebseb> in a way don't need to use a pad, coud just use mailing list instead 20:19:12 <DavidWHodgins> Wasn't always cleaned with each new build. 20:19:14 <Kernewes> probably partly my fault, I ended up with lots of different colours 20:19:32 <MrsB> #info the pad got a bit messy over time, it wasn't always cleaned between builds 20:19:36 <sebsebseb> not so much the colours, but there was that to an extent to, who is which colour, in the end didn't really matter that much though I guess 20:20:01 <MrsB> ok, so how about bugzilla, adding the whiteboard keyword etc? 20:20:16 <sebsebseb> the what? I didn't do any bug reports this time 20:20:18 <Kernewes> can't you add the whiteboard keyword when you first create the bug? 20:20:33 <Kernewes> if you have to add it in afterwards, that's two e-mails for each bug 20:20:36 <MrsB> no, I don't think so, even on the 'advanced' form 20:20:37 <DavidWHodgins> It would be nice if the whiteboard field could be entered when first entering the bug, instead of having to add it after. 20:20:52 <Luigi12_work> yeah I could use that 20:21:18 <MrsB> #action MrsB to ask lehmanu about adding the whiteboard field to the new bug form 20:21:24 <MrsB> #undo 20:21:24 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x836798c> 20:21:29 <MrsB> #action MrsB to ask leuhmanu about adding the whiteboard field to the new bug form 20:21:50 <MrsB> apart from that , was the procedure clear? 20:22:02 <MrsB> did it make sense? 20:22:16 <Kernewes> you mean the Bugzilla procedure? 20:22:20 <MrsB> yeah 20:22:25 <Kernewes> I think so 20:22:39 <wilcal> ping 20:22:41 <MrsB> the way we keep track of things on the pad and create bugs for everything on bugzilla 20:22:51 <sebsebseb> wilcal: pong ? 20:22:52 <Kernewes> it was handy having a list on the pad of the bug numbers all listed together 20:23:17 <wilcal> avoiding the 240 sec timeout 20:23:36 <Kernewes> wilcal: shame, I thought it was a microwave going ping, was hoping it was something tasty 20:23:55 <DavidWHodgins> What timeout? 20:24:15 <MrsB> #info if anybody has any better idea than the mix of pad/bugzilla please let somebody know! 20:24:29 <wilcal> I saw a message here that if you don't post within 240 or so secs you get bounced 20:24:47 <sebsebseb> wilcal: oh Freenode conection issue or whatever right ok 20:24:53 <Kernewes> wilcal: I've only lost my connection once and I often go that long without posting 20:24:54 <MrsB> oh, no that isn't what that means wilcal, you're ok 20:25:21 <sebsebseb> what does it mean then? :d 20:25:32 <MrsB> So, is there anything you feel went badly? 20:25:33 <DavidWHodgins> On irc? Which program are you using? WIth konversation, you can select the auto "go away" time, etc. 20:25:57 <Kernewes> MrsB: not that I can think of 20:26:20 <MrsB> apart from emails ending up in spam 20:26:20 <DavidWHodgins> Overall, I think beta 1 testing went well. 20:26:28 <wilcal> During a Grub 2 install, once, I had a strange black box in the right hand bottom corner of the screen 20:26:39 <Kernewes> what's the reaction from non-QA users now it's been released? 20:26:46 <wilcal> I could not reproduce the issue so I let it go 20:26:51 <MrsB> tbh I do too Dave. It was a difficult round of testign this time and unusual in alot of ways 20:27:37 <MrsB> #info overall we feel the testign went well 20:27:39 <wilcal> Lots of moving parts 20:27:44 <DavidWHodgins> Kernewes: Too soon I think. It'll be a while for the iso images to get downloaded and tested. 20:29:00 <MrsB> #info From now on we start to get a little more picky. As we reach beta3/RC we need to start looking at everything in detail 20:29:29 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone here know what the status of the mass rebuild is? 20:29:37 <MrsB> tmb? 20:29:40 <wilcal> FWIW I have a script of things I do when I install. System + Apps. I follow that same script every time 20:29:53 <Luigi12_work> I wonder if pterjan's offline mass rebuild finished 20:29:53 <alfred__> there are some comments in forums 20:29:59 <wilcal> Lots of multimedia stuff which is what I do 20:30:10 <MrsB> thats not a bad idea wilcal 20:30:47 <malo> Luigi12_work: pterjan mass rebuild finished 3 times over already: http://pkgsubmit.mageia.org/autobuild/ look in the top right corner. 20:30:48 <[mbot> [ 93.3% Success ] 20:30:55 <DavidWHodgins> That's why we need lots of people testing. Each person will be testing different things, whether they plan on it or not. 20:31:05 <Luigi12_work> malo: oh so it's running continuously? 20:32:00 <Luigi12_work> cool 20:32:01 <MrsB> I know ennael wanted to have a post mortem and try to identify bugs which should be given higher priority. I don't think she or tmb are really here today though so probably save that for next time 20:32:09 <malo> Luigi12_work: yes. It seems there is an unused machine available, so pterjan is just giving it work to do :-) 20:32:33 <MrsB> It was to be QA machine IINM 20:32:54 <Luigi12_work> yeah for VMs that QA or packagers could use 20:33:20 * Luigi12_work wishes misc would come back :o( 20:34:07 <MrsB> Is there anything else on beta1, any comments or suggestions? 20:34:20 <wilcal> I'm good 20:34:29 <Kernewes> no 20:34:32 <sebsebseb> nope 20:34:35 <alfred__> no 20:34:36 <swecarp> no 20:35:06 <MrsB> let's do the roundup then Dave please 20:35:08 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup 20:35:14 <MrsB> like lightning! 20:35:21 <Luigi12_work> http://mageia.madb.org/tools/updates 20:35:25 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db ] 20:35:33 <Kernewes> MrsB: he's false starting, I'm sure he is 20:35:37 <MrsB> lol 20:35:47 <Luigi12_work> order of importance is probably (most to least) drupal, python-django, squid-cachemgr, webmin 20:36:11 <Luigi12_work> we want webmin well tested, so it can go another couple weeks before validation 20:36:29 <MrsB> #info order of importance is probably (most to least) drupal, python-django, squid-cachemgr, webmin 20:36:37 <MrsB> #info we want webmin well tested, so it can go another couple weeks before validation 20:36:44 * Luigi12_work is a track coach and does not false start 20:36:48 <wilcal> I test it every time I do an test 20:37:05 <Kernewes> Luigi12_work: not you, DavidWHodgins 20:37:31 <Luigi12_work> ahh 20:37:38 * Luigi12_work will have to coach him up 20:37:45 <MrsB> :D 20:37:54 <Luigi12_work> anyway, things will probably be slower on the security updates front the next couple weeks 20:37:57 * DavidWHodgins confused. 20:37:59 <Luigi12_work> after tomorrow I'll not be at work until Jan 2 20:38:06 <MrsB> anything in the pipeline we should know about Luigi12_work? 20:38:12 <Luigi12_work> lemme check 20:38:19 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: just slow down :) 20:38:44 <MrsB> noo don't ;) 20:38:58 * DavidWHodgins figured it out. 20:39:02 <Luigi12_work> php-ZendFramework may happen soonish, I reported to the maintainer today two new advisories 20:39:19 <MrsB> nothing major then 20:39:41 <DavidWHodgins> That can always change on rather short notice. 20:39:46 <Luigi12_work> I e-mailed dmorgan about the ones he needs to address, no idea if he saw it or will do anything soon 20:39:46 <MrsB> Yep :( 20:40:09 <MrsB> It'll give us a chance to have a go at the kernel, but I don't think Thomas has finished with it yet 20:40:42 <Luigi12_work> other than that, probably nothing pending that'll drop all that soon 20:40:44 <DavidWHodgins> I don't like what happens when dkms source and binary packages are both installed. 20:40:58 <MrsB> Ok, thanks for that then Luigi12_work! 20:41:11 <MrsB> go dave.. 20:41:15 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else ? 20:41:19 <MrsB> whoohs 20:41:21 <MrsB> sh* 20:41:30 <MrsB> Is there anything else? 20:41:32 <sebsebseb> Anything else, from me nope, nearly food time :) 20:41:38 <tmb> actually the kernel part is ok to test, I haven't updated the br yet... I will look at the dkms stuff ... 20:42:05 <Kernewes> when we are getting the Raspberry Pi edition? 20:42:15 <Kernewes> *are we 20:42:18 <wilcal> The NFS issue(s) continue to be an issue https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6541 20:42:19 <[mbot> Bug 6541: normal, Normal, mageia, mageia, NEW, systemd seems to have problems with NFS mounts, systemd 20:42:27 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: oh that reminds me I recently read how it's now got a app centre 20:42:31 <sebsebseb> read something about that 20:42:46 <sebsebseb> so people can share games made for it and such, thats the idea. 20:42:54 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: yeah, saw that 20:43:00 <wilcal> The more I play with my Raspberry Pi the more I like it. It's a music/video machine 20:43:17 <Kernewes> I'm going to use mine to learn more about the command line 20:43:26 <Kernewes> and some more dabbling with coding 20:43:27 <sebsebseb> I may get one, not decided yet. 20:43:38 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: ask for one as a present like I did 20:43:39 <sebsebseb> probably get one eventually yeah 20:43:48 <wilcal> You really need a 32in"++ TV 20:43:54 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: could do, but they are only like £20 £22 20:43:54 <wilcal> HDTV that is 20:44:07 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: go for it, then 20:44:08 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: I can pay that no problem :D 20:44:21 <MrsB> I accept sebsebseb 20:44:30 <sebsebseb> MrsB: I am not buying you one :d 20:44:33 <MrsB> :P 20:44:33 <Kernewes> MrsB: so how is the RPi edition coming on? 20:44:40 <MrsB> no idea tbh 20:44:52 <MrsB> Last I heard the arm build system needed some work 20:44:56 <Kernewes> MrsB: bad news, we can't call it MagPi, there's a magazine for it called that 20:45:05 <MrsB> :( 20:45:14 <Kernewes> that's what I thought 20:45:17 <Kernewes> good magazine though 20:45:22 <Kernewes> an online one 20:45:24 <djennings> what about bug 6061 ? 20:45:26 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6061 major, Normal, thierry.vignaud, thierry.vignaud, ASSIGNED, mgaapplet-upgrade-helper removes nonfree and tainted repo (and so radeon-firmware) when upgrading to next Mageia version, mgaonline 20:45:26 <wilcal> Is there any thing to try yet 20:45:36 <Kernewes> MrsB: dare I ask about THAT bug? 20:46:09 <DavidWHodgins> Bug 2317 should get priority, now that the usrmove version of rpm has been pushed. 20:46:10 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2317 critical, High, thierry.vignaud, thierry.vignaud, NEW, --update option should behave like --search-media <list of the update media>, rpmdrake-5.26.10-1.mga1.src.rpm 20:46:24 <MrsB> #action MrsB to find out what's happening with bug 6061 (disabling nonfree/tainted during upgrade) 20:46:38 <MrsB> will that do djennings? 20:47:07 <djennings> yup 20:47:11 <MrsB> #info Bug 2317 has been an issue a few times the last couple of weeks 20:48:06 <MrsB> AFAIK there is no movement there yet, but boklm is back with us now so maybe things will begin to move again 20:48:24 <MrsB> I'll add it to the list for next council meeting 20:48:25 <Kernewes> back with us? 20:48:41 <MrsB> #action MrsB to ask about bug 2317 at next council meeting 20:48:42 <Luigi12_work> after a leave of absence, so to speak 20:48:47 <Kernewes> yeah, quite 20:49:01 <Kernewes> wasn't expecting him back 20:49:08 <MrsB> how come i get all the actions .. 20:49:18 <Kernewes> you're the team leader 20:49:21 <Luigi12_work> yeah I was surprised, but I think he's less deeply involved now 20:49:27 <DavidWHodgins> Glutton for punishment. :-) 20:49:29 <MrsB> need to start delegating 20:49:30 <Kernewes> MrsB: and we don't go to council meetings 20:49:48 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: well I do :d, but not on the council 20:50:02 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: huh? 20:50:13 <Kernewes> sebsebseb: you mean you listen in? 20:50:14 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: anyone can attend those meetings really 20:50:17 <MrsB> Shall we close the meeting or is there anything else we need to discuss here? 20:50:24 <Kernewes> ok with me to close 20:50:26 <sebsebseb> Kernewes: yeah and sometimes type stuff to 20:50:29 <DavidWHodgins> I think that's about it. 20:50:31 <wilcal> Nothing official for me 20:50:44 <MrsB> anybody? last chance.. 20:51:00 <Kernewes> MrsB: you can finish your mince pie now 20:51:20 <MrsB> Thankyou all for coming. Hope you all have a great christmas! (If you celebrate chrstmas) 20:51:28 <Kernewes> MrsB: thank you, and you too 20:51:30 <MrsB> #endmeeting