20:06:21 <MrsB> #startmeeting 20:06:21 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Thu Nov 1 20:06:21 2012 UTC. The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:06:21 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:06:24 <rindolf> Hi all. 20:06:29 <MrsB> #chair DavidWHodgins 20:06:29 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins MrsB 20:06:43 <MrsB> hi everybody, welcome to another meet :) 20:06:52 <rindolf> DavidWHodgins: sounds like your cat needs coffee too. ;-) 20:07:04 <DavidWHodgins> Lol 20:07:08 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Alpha 3 20:07:16 <MrsB> thankyou! 20:07:46 <MrsB> So, we just recovered from the extended testing for alpha2 and alpha 3 is almost upon us 20:08:10 <MrsB> it is due for public release on November 12th so we should expect it in the next day or so 20:08:38 <MrsB> everyone up for some ISo testing? 20:08:50 <DavidWHodgins> Should be ok. 20:09:01 <Kernewes> hopefully, but not until after Sunday 20:09:09 <alfred__> will have time for that 20:09:33 <rindolf> MrsB: I'm up for it. 20:09:57 <Latte> I hope so, too. Depends on my regular work... 20:10:02 <Edux_099> I will try. 20:10:09 <MrsB> we need to clear the existing security updates at least before it arrives so please make a push to get them done, we're about out of time. 20:11:23 <DavidWHodgins> I'm currently working on bacula 20:11:42 <MrsB> that's good news, I've been doing everything but bacula :D 20:12:16 <tmb> just a small info regarding isos... I will sync frozen repo and build first set of livecds on friday night, so early testers can play with them over the weekend 20:12:41 <MrsB> thanks tmb 20:12:46 <tmb> (unless I hit some bad problem with the build that is) 20:13:01 <MrsB> #info first ISOs should be available for testing at the weekend 20:14:10 <MrsB> During alpha 2 we had alot of people show an interest in testing, who signed up for the list and put their names down as testers but very few actually did any testing. 20:14:41 <MrsB> I know most here at the moment did do, but we need to think about how we can get people testing. 20:14:59 <MrsB> There are a couple of suggestions currently.. 20:15:56 <MrsB> There has been a start made on a page to help introduce people new to ISO testing with how we do it.. the pad, rsync, bugzilla etc 20:16:08 <MrsB> I've not had time yet to add to it 20:16:18 <MrsB> http://bn.parinux.org/p/howto_qa_iso 20:16:19 <[mbot> [ Etherpad Lite ] 20:16:41 <MrsB> If you have some spare time please do work on it 20:17:24 <MrsB> Alot of the info was in the email I sent around last time but it could be added to and clarified etc 20:17:53 <MrsB> Another idea is to password the rsync 20:18:11 <MrsB> wdyt? 20:18:22 <rindolf> MrsB: you mean protect it using a password? 20:18:37 <MrsB> so you would need a password to be able to download it 20:19:21 <rindolf> MrsB: OK, that's what I meant. 20:19:26 <Latte> I don't think that a password will help to encourage people to test? 20:19:59 <DavidWHodgins> The purpose of adding a password, would be to prevent people from downloading it, who haven't signed up, to prevent the server from becoming overloaded. Was there a problem with the server load? 20:20:07 <tmb> Latte: nope, but it will save availavle bandwidth for those that do test 20:20:22 <Latte> DavidWHodgins: tmb: yes, that's true 20:20:46 <MrsB> That was my first instinct too, but it could give a sense of ownership and access could be withdrawn for those who do download it and don't do any testing. It would give us a truer picture of exactly the manpower we do have. 20:20:51 <Kernewes> the trouble is, all the testing has to happen in the space of about a week 20:21:01 <Kernewes> if real life gets in the way you lose your opportunity 20:21:09 <Kernewes> that's what happened to me with Alpha 2 20:22:00 <DavidWHodgins> Right now, we only know who is testing based on the updates to the pad, or bugzilla reports. We don't know who tested, but didn't find any new bugs. 20:22:16 <DavidWHodgins> We don't know who downloaded which versions either. 20:22:34 <tmb> Kernewes: that's why we have expanded the planned testing to ~10 days so it covers 2 weekends 20:22:42 <MrsB> That should have been on the pad, I guess we need to clarify 20:23:46 <MrsB> it isn't all on our shoulders, tmb/ennael needed to clear the pad a bit better too when they built new isos 20:24:11 <tmb> yep 20:24:21 <MrsB> we do need to think how we can improve things though and these are just two of the current ideas 20:24:54 <Kernewes> tmb: if most the ISOs aren't out until after this weekend, that only leaves a week 20:25:06 <MrsB> anybody have any better ideas? 20:25:14 <MrsB> or against the current ones 20:25:37 <Kernewes> maybe rearrange the page that tells you what to test 20:25:47 <DavidWHodgins> Unless we encounter problems with the server load, I don't think adding a password will help. 20:25:50 <Kernewes> so the easier items are further up and newbies can find them easier 20:26:32 <MrsB> I must admit, the password does have the potential to be a bad idea, but it could deter those who just fancy a sneak preview 20:27:07 <DavidWHodgins> True. We don't want another review based on an alpha or beta. 20:27:14 <MrsB> If we have a list of 20 people and only 5 or 6 are testing then we need to look at what we can do to change that 20:28:35 <MrsB> is anybody against having a password this time around, and if so what are the reasons? 20:29:17 <Latte> how is the password provided? 20:29:19 <DavidWHodgins> Is the server setup for using a password? 20:29:38 <MrsB> it would probably be me handing it out Latte 20:30:04 <MrsB> it's possible to have a different password for each person too 20:30:06 <Latte> but a general one or a individual? 20:30:11 <Latte> ah OK ;) 20:30:22 <MrsB> well, I say possible, is that true tmb? 20:31:30 <tmb> MrsB: yep 20:31:54 <MrsB> so what do you think guys? 20:32:13 <Latte> fo me it's OK 20:32:31 <MrsB> do we think it would help or hinder? 20:32:43 <alfred__> well i don't see it's really needed but i'm not against 20:32:53 <Kernewes> same with me 20:33:21 <rindolf> Maybe have something based on ssh keys. 20:33:34 <rindolf> Because entering the password every time is annoying. 20:33:41 <rindolf> Can I specify it on the command line? 20:33:46 <MrsB> I'm not sure how it would work 20:34:05 <Kernewes> what if you don't use ssh? 20:35:12 <MrsB> so lets give it a try shall we and see how it works out 20:35:38 <MrsB> we may decide it's a bad idea and give up on it or might find it encourages people to get involved 20:35:50 <MrsB> it's up to us though 20:35:56 <MrsB> mainly ;) 20:35:57 <DavidWHodgins> Looking at man rsyncd.conf, I think we should either use the secrets file, or leave it for the next release, so everyone can get the ssh stuff set up and tested first. 20:36:04 <leuhmanu> rindolf: you can add the pass in your rsync command 20:36:12 <rindolf> leuhmanu: OK, thanks. 20:36:26 <leuhmanu> (with the basic password file conf) 20:36:29 <DavidWHodgins> You can also put the password in a file. 20:36:54 <MrsB> so now we need some volunteers to add some info to the help page I gave before.. 20:37:14 * MrsB watches everybody hide 20:37:49 <DavidWHodgins> What info needs to be added, depends on how/if we add a password, or use rsync over ssh. 20:38:39 <MrsB> yes, you're right. We can add general info though like how to update the pad, what with, what to test etc. How to use bugzilla, whiteboard etc 20:39:08 <MrsB> how to download the ISo can be added when we have that information 20:39:25 <MrsB> it'll be sent out individually though I think anyway 20:39:48 <MrsB> how to dump onto USb stick too 20:39:57 <MrsB> how to dual boot 20:40:10 <MrsB> anything which could be useful for a new tester 20:41:02 <Kernewes> there's already a long wiki page on dual booting 20:41:14 <MrsB> it'll be added as a wiki page when we're happy with it, or we could do it straight onto the wiki 20:41:25 <MrsB> that's good to know Kernewes 20:41:42 <alfred__> another thing, what about a database about the hw used for tests? 20:42:09 <MrsB> didn't we have something like that at one point? 20:42:22 <DavidWHodgins> alfred__: There is a wiki page for that. 20:42:24 <Kernewes> MrsB: actually I think the wiki page is more about dual booting alongside Windows 20:42:31 <alfred__> there's a wiki page i know 20:42:34 <Kernewes> MrsB: which people shouldn't dabbel with 20:42:36 <Kernewes> dabble 20:42:49 <Kernewes> not with cauldron 20:43:31 <Kernewes> unless they're already experts :) 20:43:42 <MrsB> which we all are, of ocurse :D 20:43:46 <alfred__> would be a good idea the iso-tester would let the information about their hw there 20:44:04 <MrsB> alfred feel free to add a QA wiki page for that 20:44:06 <alfred__> i did already i think 20:44:16 <Kernewes> yes there is one 20:44:27 <MrsB> it's good to see soem ideas :) 20:44:30 <MrsB> some* 20:44:36 <MrsB> typing is bad today, sorry 20:45:36 <DavidWHodgins> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_iso_hardware_list 20:46:24 <MrsB> i knew I'd seen one somewhere 20:47:03 <MrsB> #info please add your test system info to the list above but remember to keep it updated too please 20:47:37 <MrsB> DavidWHodgins: is that page linked from the qa portal? 20:47:54 <alfred__> not yet 20:48:01 <DavidWHodgins> Not sure. Just did a search on hardware in the wiki, to find it. 20:48:07 <MrsB> alfred__: would you like to add one somewhere please 20:48:38 <alfred__> yes, will see 20:48:44 <MrsB> #action alfred__ to add a link on the portal to the qa hardware list 20:48:54 <MrsB> thanks 20:49:00 <alfred__> should also be mentioned/linked on the pad 20:49:14 <MrsB> yes and in the new help page 20:50:33 <MrsB> ok so there is work to be done anyway, please have a think how we could encourage more people to do testing while you're next on the loo :) 20:50:48 <DavidWHodgins> Link added to help page. 20:51:02 <MrsB> thanks Dave, lets move on for now 20:51:27 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Mageia 1 End of Life (EOL) date 20:51:37 <MrsB> tah :) 20:51:55 <MrsB> We now have a date for when Mageia 1 will become End of Life 20:52:26 <MrsB> #info Support for Mageia 1 will end on 1st December 20:52:27 <DavidWHodgins> Good. I need the disk space. :-) 20:52:48 <MrsB> it'll help us with our qa load when we get into beta season etc too 20:52:57 <Kernewes> How does that make you feel who were here when it first came out? Sad or...? 20:53:21 <MrsB> well, in the words of our glorious leader.. Mageia is dead, Long live Mageia! 20:53:30 <DavidWHodgins> I'm glad. Although it took a while to work the bugs out, I prefer systemd. 20:54:00 <MrsB> There *should* be a blog post about this today 20:54:12 <MrsB> and another is planned for the 16th to remind people 20:54:51 <MrsB> http://www.mageia.org/en/support/ 20:54:52 <[mbot> [ Support for Mageia distribution ] 20:55:56 <MrsB> for me Mga1 was a good solid release, it is dated now though. It did run properly on my laptop though *cought*tmb* 20:56:05 <tmb> :) 20:56:40 <tmb> so does mga2 if you use kernel-linus :) 20:56:57 <MrsB> yes but if I install mga2 it just crashes until i install linus :P 20:57:17 <DavidWHodgins> MrsB: I thought it was mga3 the laptop was having problems with? 20:57:25 <MrsB> it's both 20:58:11 <MrsB> are there any comments or questions on this topic before we move on? 20:58:36 <alfred__> not here 20:58:41 <Kernewes> no 20:58:56 <MrsB> disco dave.. 20:59:11 <tmb> I guess wait for blog post before starting to notify BRs 20:59:36 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Will the patches I suggested for the live iso images be included? https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7774 20:59:37 <[mbot> Bug 7774: normal, Normal, tmb, NEW, fglrx default resolution is too high., draklive 21:01:54 <tmb> DavidWHodgins: I havent decided yet... I'm also looking on fglrx code 21:01:56 * Luigi12_work strongly oppposes killing mga1 so early :P 21:02:18 <alfred__> doesn't work the -/+ keys any longer? 21:02:19 <MrsB> it will have been 18 months 21:04:05 <DavidWHodgins> alfred__: Forgot about those. I used alt+ctrl+f2, ran XFdrake to set the resolution, then restarted the dm. Not good for a new user with an old monitor though. 21:04:32 <alfred__> ok, log time not used 21:04:38 <alfred__> *long 21:05:01 <MrsB> if there's nothing else mga1 lets do the roundup 21:05:18 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Luigi's Roundup 21:05:32 <MrsB> Luigi12_work: over to you :) 21:06:15 <Luigi12_work> looks like security updates are mostly cleared out. Dave said he's working on bacula, I think webkit is done on one arch. 21:06:33 <Luigi12_work> tinyproxy has some minor issues that need fixed, and I need to investigate further in the blender one. 21:06:44 <Latte> I can do the webkit this evening 21:06:50 <Luigi12_work> great 21:07:08 <DavidWHodgins> From the messages in the developers mailing list, I thought it tinyproxy was going to be dropped. 21:07:24 <Luigi12_work> the courier-authlib one is marked as bugfix...upstream claimed it was a minor security issue. I'm not sure about that, but if you're gonna dive into the bugfix ones, maybe look at that sooner than later. 21:07:34 <Luigi12_work> DavidWHodgins: it can be dropped in Cauldron, not Mageia 2 21:07:44 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Ok. Thanks. 21:07:53 <Luigi12_work> it's not like wicd which is completely non-functional and therefore doesn't need to be fixed 21:08:06 <MrsB> if there is no interest in maintaining it maybe we should push it as it is 21:08:21 <Luigi12_work> well minor things like nobody->nogroup should be easy to fix 21:08:33 <DavidWHodgins> I'll test if after I finish with bacula. 21:08:38 <MrsB> that exposes another bug unfortunately 21:08:41 <Luigi12_work> the init script not killing the processes...well that's just weird as systemd should handle that, so dunno what the deal is there 21:09:06 <tmb> ping coling for thst 21:09:25 <tmb> *that 21:09:36 <Luigi12_work> other than that, for the other bugfix ones, PHP is the only one I care about, but it's not real high priority 21:10:00 <Luigi12_work> so...good job everyone. The list had gotten quite long, so it's nice to see it back down. 21:10:02 <tmb> And I'm about to land full kernel sets for QA :) 21:10:07 <Luigi12_work> w00t 21:10:08 <MrsB> we have to focus our time now, we'll be ISO testing for the next week probably 21:10:08 <DavidWHodgins> I'll try to get as many done as I can, before the iso images start coming out. 21:10:17 <Luigi12_work> so hopefully we won't have too many new updates in the near future 21:10:26 <Luigi12_work> just had about a week where a bunch of them came out 21:10:30 <DavidWHodgins> knock on wood. :-) 21:10:35 <Luigi12_work> seriously 21:10:38 <Luigi12_work> any questions for me? 21:10:49 <DavidWHodgins> Not here. 21:10:58 <alfred__> no 21:11:01 <Latte> no 21:11:03 <Kernewes> no 21:11:16 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Anything else? 21:11:26 <MrsB> thanks for that Luigi12_work 21:11:44 <MrsB> Is there anything else? 21:11:50 <DavidWHodgins> Time zone change happens this coming weekend here. 21:12:09 <Luigi12_work> stupid time change 21:12:14 <alfred__> already done here :9 21:12:20 <alfred__> *:) 21:12:22 <Latte> Luigi12_work: I agree 21:12:26 <MrsB> are you two OK to carry on at 20 UTC? 21:12:51 <DavidWHodgins> Btw, I've been diagnosed with uveitis, so I have to limit my time on the computer a lot more than I used to. 21:12:58 <Luigi12_work> :o( 21:13:05 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. 20 utc is fine with me. 21:13:25 <Luigi12_work> I guess 20 utc will move it back to 3pm, so yes that's better actually 21:13:26 <MrsB> sounds painful dave 21:13:57 <MrsB> 20 UTC should keep us at the same local time after the clocks change 21:14:40 <DavidWHodgins> I've had to change the lighting in my room, so the wall behind the computer is roughly the same brigtness as the monitor. That has helped a lot, but when my eyes start to hurt, I have to stop and close them for an hour or so. 21:15:08 <Edux_099> I have problems too (with the computer) 21:16:14 <Edux_099> 2 hours and my eyes hurt... 21:16:16 <DavidWHodgins> Good idea for everyone. Keep the monitor contrast as low as possible. Brightness as low as still easy to read. Use black on white where possible. Keep area around the monitor roughly the same brightness as the monitor. 21:16:35 <MrsB> What was that program that dimmed the screen depending on the time of day, so you remember? 21:16:49 <MrsB> got it, gtkredshift 21:16:52 <Kernewes> I'm having to limit my time at the computer because of my back 21:17:21 <MrsB> makes the screen more red when as the light changes 21:17:40 <DavidWHodgins> The redshift helps a little, but it distorts the colours, which is a problem with some web sites, etc. 21:17:55 <MrsB> yeah, it's not pretty but it should be easier on the eyes 21:18:05 <MrsB> I'm not sure we have one for backs :\ 21:18:12 <Kernewes> DavidWHodgins: how long do they say that's going to last? 21:18:21 <MrsB> maybe the one that reminds you to get up and have a walk around 21:18:37 <Kernewes> MrsB: my back reminds me 21:18:48 <Kernewes> MrsB: occupational hazard after 25 years of office work 21:18:53 <MrsB> :( 21:19:10 <MrsB> as we're all falling apart shall we end the meeting before it actually happens? 21:19:13 <DavidWHodgins> It's a result of having lupus, which I've had for seven years. The uveitis started about 6 months ago, but has been getting steadily worse, and finally diagnosed a few days ago. 21:19:47 <DavidWHodgins> Like most of my lupus symptoms, it will probably come and go over time, pretty much on it's own. 21:20:01 <MrsB> Thankyou all for coming! 21:20:05 <MrsB> #endmeeting