19:06:27 <MrsB> #startmeeting 19:06:27 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Thu Aug 2 19:06:27 2012 UTC. The chair is MrsB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:06:27 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:06:44 <MrsB> Morning QA :) 19:06:50 <MrsB> who's here? 19:06:52 <MrsB> say hi 19:06:54 <DavidWHodgins> Hi there. 19:06:56 <Kernewes> hi 19:07:11 <MrsB> not many of us then :D 19:07:20 <alfred_> Hi there 19:07:21 <MrsB> we'll keep it short this week 19:07:28 <MrsB> hiya alfred and welcome 19:07:37 <MrsB> led43_Mag1: here? 19:07:58 <MrsB> he's maybe lurking 19:08:19 <MrsB> So lets kick off by saying hello to alfred who joined us today \o/ 19:08:26 <Kernewes> hello alfred 19:08:44 <DavidWHodgins> Hi Alfred. 19:08:48 <MrsB> Welcome to the team - It's official now ;) 19:09:11 <alfred_> Hello Kernewes Hello DavidWHodgins 19:09:17 <MrsB> If at any point there is anything you are not sure of then please don't hesitate to ask 19:09:30 <MrsB> do you know who these meetings work alfred_? 19:09:42 <DavidWHodgins> s /who/how/ 19:09:53 <MrsB> yes how, sorry, it's been a long day today 19:10:04 <Kernewes> MrsB: you too? 19:10:09 <MrsB> very much so 19:10:42 <MrsB> a bit of info if you're not familiar with the meetings.. 19:11:07 <alfred_> yes thanks 19:11:09 <MrsB> They are logged and minuted like a regular office meeting by the meetbot, that is Inigo_Montoya 19:11:28 <Kernewes> wish I could borrow Inigo for my "real" meetings 19:11:45 <MrsB> afterwards they are posted online, you can see records of past meetings through the QA wiki pages 19:12:13 <MrsB> If you or anybody would like to add an info point to the minutes just use #info followed by whatever you want to add 19:12:21 <MrsB> like this.. 19:12:30 <MrsB> #info this is how the info thing works 19:12:35 <MrsB> ok? 19:12:38 <alfred_> ok 19:12:43 <MrsB> great :) 19:13:14 <MrsB> led43 is going to begin some mentoring tomorrow hopefully so if you'd like to join in we can have a bit of a newbie party! 19:13:19 <alfred_> and the other commands work similar 19:13:26 <alfred_> ? 19:13:36 <MrsB> yes, some are restricted but #info can be used by anybody 19:13:48 <Kernewes> I didn't know that 19:13:58 <MrsB> #info Welcome alfred to the team \o/ 19:14:18 <alfred_> the topic command is restricted i think 19:14:35 <MrsB> the #link too can be used by anybody but the meetbot also notes url's posted on their own 19:14:56 <MrsB> so lets go to our first topic.. 19:15:07 <alfred_> ok 19:15:10 <MrsB> #topic Daves Super New Computer 19:15:17 <DavidWHodgins> #info Updated https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_iso_hardware_list 19:15:32 <MrsB> lol you were waiting with that one 19:15:45 <DavidWHodgins> Yep. 16 GB ram, quad core, 256GB ssd drive. 19:15:57 <MrsB> How are you getting on with it? 19:16:28 <DavidWHodgins> I've installed i586 and x86-64, both 1 and 2 on bare hardware, and in virtualbox, so 8 installs altogether. 19:16:51 <DavidWHodgins> I have 4 vb guests running at the same time, with no slowdown, except internet. 19:17:10 <MrsB> very nice indeed! 19:17:19 <MrsB> Mine struggles with just one VM running 19:17:20 <DavidWHodgins> Have to be careful to make sure I'm on the right system. :-) 19:17:29 <MrsB> lol I'm sure 19:17:46 <DavidWHodgins> I can ssh between any of the running systems too. 19:18:08 <MrsB> that's useful for some bugs isn't it 19:18:22 <MrsB> I desparately need more RAM 19:18:28 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, like the recent testing for keepalived. Needs three systems to test. 19:18:46 <DavidWHodgins> One acting as client, and two servers, to test failover. 19:19:15 <MrsB> I'm going to struggle testing virtualbox xen etc in mga1 19:19:25 <DavidWHodgins> I'm very happy with the system. Just need new eyes, so I can spend more time on it. :-) 19:19:36 <MrsB> i say that because al13n built xen this afternoon and it's on its way :\ 19:20:12 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. Like qemu, and kernel, that will require testing on bare hardware. 19:20:24 <MrsB> So shall we move on? 19:20:30 <DavidWHodgins> Go ahead. 19:20:35 <MrsB> what was next? 19:20:57 <Kernewes> iso testing? 19:21:03 <MrsB> #topic Samuels Super New Webpage 19:21:06 <DavidWHodgins> http://mageia.madb.org/tools/updates 19:21:08 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db ] 19:21:13 <MrsB> beat me to it again! 19:21:19 <DavidWHodgins> Lol 19:21:28 <MrsB> Stormi has been veru busy creating this new page for us 19:21:32 <MrsB> very* 19:21:44 <Kernewes> wow 19:21:52 <MrsB> it's really useful I think, I've been helping/hindering him today 19:22:58 <MrsB> He's trying also to be able to show when the bug was assigned to QA so we can maybe start to collect some statistics 19:22:58 <DavidWHodgins> Really nice that it shows what's already been tested. 19:23:05 <MrsB> yeah 19:23:20 <MrsB> it makes it simple to see the best place to test 19:23:40 <MrsB> also the ones with procedure should be easy for our new starters 19:24:07 <MrsB> We have begun adding a couple of new whiteboard keywords to qa bugs 19:24:28 <MrsB> #info New keywords we are adding to bugs.. 19:24:43 <MrsB> #info has_procedure whiteboard keyword for bugs with a procedure 19:25:12 <MrsB> #info feedback whiteboard keyword for bugs where we are waiting for packager feedback 19:25:26 <MrsB> those are used by the webpage to show the data 19:25:55 <MrsB> we'll try and monitor the feedback one but if you have added it then please remember to remove it once the packager responds 19:26:15 <MrsB> also if you add a procedure likewaise please add the has_procedure one 19:26:21 <MrsB> likewise* 19:26:46 <MrsB> any questions or comments on this? 19:26:54 <Kernewes> can you just remind me 19:26:59 <Kernewes> what MAG1TOO means? 19:27:01 <DavidWHodgins> Would be nice if it could check for closed bugs with procedures. 19:27:05 <MrsB> yep sure 19:27:07 <Kernewes> or MGA1TOO 19:27:08 <Kernewes> whatever 19:27:55 <MrsB> Because bugzilla is not capable in its current version of showing a bug applies to both Mageia 1 and Mageia 2 we set it to Mageia 2 and add the whiteboard keyword MGA1TOO 19:28:15 <Kernewes> ah yes, I think I remember the ML exchanges you had about that 19:28:34 <MrsB> It's the same system used by bugsquad for cauldron bugs etc 19:28:44 <Kernewes> thank you 19:28:47 <MrsB> yw :) 19:29:12 <MrsB> anything else? 19:29:19 <Kernewes> no thank you 19:29:42 <MrsB> alfred_: are you managing to keep up or is it all confusing at the moment? 19:30:39 <alfred_> a little bit confusig as im in general not as fit in taking part chats 19:31:01 <Kernewes> alfred_: it takes a bit of getting used to 19:31:18 <alfred_> yeah i think so 19:31:33 <MrsB> it's Ok, we don't expect you to be able to jump straight in. It will take some time :) we'll help you though! 19:31:45 <Kernewes> alfred_: they're very helpful 19:32:07 <Kernewes> alfred_: they have to be with me around :) 19:32:22 <MrsB> lol you're doing ok, both of you :) 19:32:30 <DavidWHodgins> alfred_: What timezone are you in? I'm in EDT (London, Ontario, Canada) 19:32:44 <alfred_> Berlin(CEST) 19:33:00 <MrsB> UTC+2 at the moment isn't it? 19:33:05 <alfred_> yes 19:33:48 <MrsB> I am UK, as is Kernewes, UTC+1. Stormi is deputy team leader, he is France so same timezone as you 19:34:45 <MrsB> If you need to get hold of anbody on IRC you can ping them.. just say their nick and ping, like alfred_ ping? they will see it when they come back 19:35:04 <MrsB> the typical reply is pong! 19:35:07 <alfred_> ok 19:35:27 <MrsB> ok so if no other questions or comments on the webpage lets move on? 19:35:36 <Kernewes> ok 19:35:40 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 19:35:43 <alfred_> ok 19:35:51 <MrsB> #topic Holidays/Vacations 19:36:01 <MrsB> I call it a holiday :P 19:36:28 <MrsB> There is a wiki page where people can put they are going to be away, not sure if you have seen it.. 19:36:34 <Kernewes> no 19:36:40 <DavidWHodgins> Nope 19:36:42 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Absent 19:36:55 <MrsB> #info the wiki page to show when you plan to be away 19:37:13 <MrsB> You can also mention it on the mailing list too 19:37:29 <MrsB> which brings me nicely on my news.. 19:38:14 <MrsB> I'm going to be away next week and possibly the week after. Definitely next week though. Anything you need please ask Stormi (Samuel) 19:38:24 <Kernewes> anywhere nice? 19:38:30 <MrsB> Weston super mud 19:38:42 <Kernewes> not far enough west lol 19:38:45 <MrsB> going to see my mum for a week :) 19:38:50 <Kernewes> oh that's nice 19:39:07 <DavidWHodgins> Hope you enjoy it! 19:39:17 <MrsB> thanks :) 19:39:31 <MrsB> MrB has booked the following week off too but we have no plans for it yet 19:40:00 <Kernewes> it can be nice to go to local places for the day 19:40:16 <MrsB> So anybody please feel free to add your holidays to that wiki page/email the list/ tell people here etc so we know 19:40:25 <DavidWHodgins> Yeah. Play tourist in your home town. 19:40:42 <MrsB> yeah, it'll be nice just to have some time together and off the computer 19:41:00 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. You'll miss it. :-) 19:41:14 <MrsB> i know, probably be here more often then not! 19:41:34 <MrsB> so next topic? 19:41:43 <MrsB> ok with that alfred_? 19:41:48 <alfred_> ok 19:42:11 <MrsB> #topic Backports Homework 19:42:23 <MrsB> Did we do what we were supposed to.. 19:42:37 <MrsB> #info MrsB did (mostly) 19:42:54 <MrsB> #info Stormi hasn't said so yet :P 19:43:16 <MrsB> There is now a validating backports wiki page 19:43:36 <MrsB> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/QA_process_for_validating_backports 19:43:57 <MrsB> feel free to finish that if you like Dave 19:44:57 <MrsB> do you understand what backports are alfred_? 19:45:01 <DavidWHodgins> I'll take a good look through it after the meeting. 19:45:09 <MrsB> thanks! 19:45:26 <DavidWHodgins> Any news on 2317? 19:45:34 <alfred_> Oh yes, i did one by my self the last days 19:45:42 <MrsB> oh ok, we can do that in a minute yeah 19:46:01 <alfred_> ported bumblebee from cauldron to mga2 19:46:15 <MrsB> great, so you're quite advanced then 19:47:00 <MrsB> let's move quickly away from backports.. 19:47:14 <MrsB> #topic bug 2317 (The BWNWDNS) 19:47:16 <[mbot> Bug https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2317 critical, High, thierry.vignaud, NEW, PATCH, --update option should behave like --search-media <list of the update media>, rpmdrake-5.26.10-1.mga1.src.rpm 19:47:43 <MrsB> I'm not sure if we covered this before or it was just mentioned on the list 19:47:57 <MrsB> Before the last meeting, which we skipped.. 19:48:28 <MrsB> This was talked about in the council meeting. A resolution was reached and a fix is on it's way! \o/ 19:48:43 <MrsB> as yet no word on how long it will be though 19:49:04 <MrsB> not alot more to say really on this 19:49:36 <MrsB> any comments or questions? (Don't worry about this if you've no idea what we're on about) 19:50:12 <DavidWHodgins> No. Would really like to see it soon though. 19:50:17 <MrsB> #info a fix for bug 2317 is on it's way but no news of a timeframe yet 19:50:23 <MrsB> hiya harms! 19:50:34 <harms> sorry, I am late 19:50:45 <MrsB> its ok, thanks for coming :) 19:50:53 <MrsB> hows things? 19:51:01 <harms> busy 19:51:29 <MrsB> Say hello to alfred_, he joined us today 19:51:43 <harms> hellllo! 19:51:47 <MrsB> :D 19:52:03 <alfred_> hello 19:52:22 <MrsB> #topic ISO Testing 19:52:36 <MrsB> So, September is really not very far away 19:53:04 <DavidWHodgins> I expect things will be very similar to last iso testing. Depends a lot on what iso images are going to be built. 19:53:08 <MrsB> unless we have any other suggestions then we should concentrate on using what we have now and getting it set up and ironing out any problems with it 19:53:37 <MrsB> http://www.ethercalc.org/qa 19:53:38 <[mbot> [ EtherCalc - Share the URL to your friends and edit together! ] 19:53:53 <MrsB> We could maybe get something similar hosted on mageia servers 19:54:14 <MrsB> There is probably some fancy web package for doing this we just haven't found yet 19:54:33 <Kernewes> do we need fancy? 19:54:42 <DavidWHodgins> Simpler is better. 19:54:46 <MrsB> It depends if what we have is up to the job or not 19:55:11 <harms> Easy: do the work and coordinate it - fancy packages at most can help 19:55:35 <MrsB> can anybody see any problems with the spreadsheet idea? 19:55:43 <DavidWHodgins> Now that I can test and update the page at the same time, instead of having to take notes and then update, it should be much easier for me. 19:56:08 <Kernewes> go for it, I say 19:56:12 <MrsB> yes that was a pain for you, but it can be printed off, there is a little button to format it html for printing 19:56:32 <harms> Last time I was slightly put off by quite a lot of typing to fill the sheets out 19:56:51 <harms> can that be simplified (or did I exagerate)? 19:56:55 <MrsB> We had the pad last time didnt we 19:57:11 <Kernewes> there's bound to be a certain amount of typing needed 19:57:25 <MrsB> #info last time we used this http://bn.parinux.org/p/mageia2rc 19:57:26 <[mbot> [ Etherpad Lite ] 19:57:58 <DavidWHodgins> I think I used that a lot more than ethercalc last time. 19:58:06 <harms> Agree, we need both. I would estimate the time to fill a spread-sheet for a test to 19:58:14 <harms> something like 5 minutes 19:58:37 <MrsB> Could you all give it some thought over the next week please, try it out and try to find problems so we can deal with whatever needs to be fixed and be ready to go when the ISOs land on September 4th 19:58:44 <harms> for 10 cdroms that has a nice multiplication effect 19:58:51 <Kernewes> is there a way to link entries in the spreadsheet to more detailed entries on the pad? 19:59:34 <MrsB> The idea is that you can just put an OK in the spreadsheet against the things you've tested. It should also be easy for people outside the team to get involved and give useful feedback 19:59:51 <MrsB> or bugzilla links where there are problems 19:59:55 <Kernewes> and if it's not OK, use the pad? 20:00:07 <DavidWHodgins> And bugzilla. 20:00:07 <MrsB> we're trying to replace the pad really 20:00:11 <Kernewes> ok 20:00:34 <Kernewes> how do we try it out? 20:00:41 <Kernewes> what do you want us to do? 20:00:50 <MrsB> the pad was good for us in the team but we want to be able test thoroughly and the list of test this test that will help that 20:01:23 <MrsB> just try to imagine where problems are going to occur 20:01:39 <harms> One of the principle advantages of the pad was the overview on general progress 20:01:48 <MrsB> We're hoping we can give the link to people who have the ISO and let them feedback useful feedback. Not just us in the team. 20:01:50 <Kernewes> perhaps we should have a testing procedure for the spreadsheet :) 20:02:19 <harms> maybe a small summary spreadsheet might provide the overview more efficiently 20:02:24 <MrsB> The spreadsheet will enable that too though harms 20:02:39 <MrsB> the first page, the link I gave is exactly that really 20:02:57 <harms> Ok, evidently slipped out of my memory 20:03:18 <MrsB> this one - http://www.ethercalc.org/qa 20:03:18 <harms> nice to re-invent things -) 20:03:18 <[mbot> [ EtherCalc - Share the URL to your friends and edit together! ] 20:03:32 <MrsB> each ISo would then have it's own separate sheet 20:03:47 <DavidWHodgins> Are there instructions for how to edit the page? 20:04:01 <MrsB> you just click the box and type :P 20:04:23 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. 20:04:32 <MrsB> Some guidance of what to do can be added at the top tho yes, I added some to the ISO page linked there 20:04:56 <MrsB> feel free to add it too btw 20:05:04 <MrsB> it's open to improvement 20:05:34 <MrsB> #info we need to move on this so please discuss this on the list and try and find any problems before we run out of time 20:06:18 <MrsB> any comments or questions on this? 20:06:58 <Kernewes> so we just try filling in boxes with anything to see if it works? 20:07:18 <DavidWHodgins> That's what I just did. :-) 20:07:28 <DavidWHodgins> Entered some text, and then removed it. 20:07:39 <Kernewes> I think even I could do that :) 20:07:49 <MrsB> we have to try and preempt any problems with people outside the team being able to use it and make it as usable as we can 20:08:21 <MrsB> It's difficult to add full details without know what ISO's we will have 20:08:25 <DavidWHodgins> I was looking for an edit button, like on the wiki. Didn't expect it to be so simple. 20:08:37 <Kernewes> does it just stay there or get mailed to the list or...? 20:08:38 <MrsB> I'll ask stormi to raise that at next council meeting and drop an email to the list 20:08:50 <Kernewes> I mean do we need to practise sending it to people? 20:09:03 <MrsB> it just stays there, it's hosted on that site 20:09:09 <Kernewes> fine 20:09:32 <MrsB> we may be able to find something similar we can host ourselves to have proper control of it 20:09:41 <DavidWHodgins> Normally, when a bug is found, mention it in ethercalc, file a bug report, and for major bugs, add a message to the qa discuss list. 20:10:04 <Kernewes> ok 20:10:07 <MrsB> yes, try to come up with a procedure we can add to the top 20:10:41 <MrsB> anything else on this? 20:11:00 <Kernewes> no 20:11:17 <MrsB> harms alfred_? 20:11:38 <alfred_> no 20:11:41 <harms> nothing hjere 20:11:52 <MrsB> ok, lets move on then, thankyou :) 20:12:09 <MrsB> #topic Luigi's Roundup 20:12:11 <Luigi12_work> ding 20:12:14 <MrsB> lol 20:12:19 <MrsB> I was just about to ping 20:12:26 <MrsB> everybody has beaten me to it tonight 20:12:28 <Luigi12_work> I felt it coming 20:12:54 <MrsB> Over to you then.. 20:13:26 <Luigi12_work> I sent a new e-mail yesterday, as you might have seen 20:13:33 * MrsB did 20:13:37 <DavidWHodgins> Yep 20:13:47 <Luigi12_work> from the older mail, we still have php-ZendFramework, which is pending packager feedback 20:13:52 <Luigi12_work> we also still have mga1 blender 20:14:06 <Luigi12_work> the exposure with that package is small, so it's not a big deal 20:14:18 <Luigi12_work> soon we should have bind and dhcp added to the list too 20:14:31 <Luigi12_work> they are fixed in Cauldron, but I guess I'm expected to do everything around here when it comes to stable releases 20:14:42 <DavidWHodgins> Ouch. 20:14:44 <MrsB> :( 20:15:05 <MrsB> maybe some movement on that but I can't discuss it yet 20:15:10 <Luigi12_work> so I've had other work to do at work this week, but I'll get to those soon 20:15:48 <Luigi12_work> Stormi's new page really helps. At some point I may ask to add a priority thing to it. 20:15:58 <MrsB> that's not a bad idea 20:16:16 <MrsB> Do you currently set the priority on the bug report? 20:16:18 <DavidWHodgins> Have it sorted by priority would be good. 20:16:26 <Luigi12_work> sometimes, but not usually 20:16:35 <MrsB> might be an idea to start 20:16:51 <MrsB> I'll ask stormi tomorrow about adding priority to the page 20:16:52 <Luigi12_work> yeah 20:17:17 <MrsB> #action MrsB ask Stormi about adding priorities to the super new webpage 20:17:18 <Luigi12_work> I'd just color code it rather than adding yet another column if he does 20:17:43 <MrsB> #info Luigi suggests colour coding maybe 20:18:02 <MrsB> red, amber, green maybe 20:18:12 <Luigi12_work> I think I should actually set the Severity rather than Priority since that gives me 4 choices to work with rather than 3 20:18:29 <MrsB> what priorities are available in bugzilla, never thought to look? 20:18:30 * Luigi12_work agrees with red, amber, green, maybe black if a fourth is needed 20:18:51 <MrsB> #info work with bugzilla Severity rather than priority 20:19:02 <Luigi12_work> Priority I could do low, medium, high (release_blocker not really appropriate). Severity I can do low, normal, major, critical (enhancement not really appropriate). 20:19:18 <MrsB> that is more useful yes 20:20:15 <MrsB> good, so anything else to add David? 20:20:22 <Luigi12_work> nope, any questions for me? 20:20:24 <DavidWHodgins> Just fyi. During iso testing, release blocker bugs are set as blocking for a tracker bug. 20:20:29 <MrsB> thankyou for that :) 20:20:44 <MrsB> any questions or comments for Luigi12_work? 20:20:56 <alfred_> no 20:21:04 <DavidWHodgins> Not till I see how it looks. :-) 20:21:10 <MrsB> lol 20:21:27 <MrsB> I'll ask stormi to hold the meeting as normal next week if he can 20:21:38 <MrsB> maybe review it there 20:21:45 <MrsB> or on the list 20:22:09 <MrsB> movingon then, thankyou Luigi12_work 20:22:37 <MrsB> #topic Do we? Don't we? 20:22:40 <DavidWHodgins> Luigi12_work: Just fyi. krb5 is failing on Mageia 1 x86-64. Still digging to figure out why. 20:22:56 <MrsB> You may have seen on the list.. 20:23:53 <MrsB> #info Stormi raised the question, should we allow packagers to test one arch of their own update in exchange for creating a testign procedure to follow? 20:24:06 <DavidWHodgins> I'm for it. 20:24:12 <MrsB> I have to be upfront and say I have some reservations 20:24:23 <Luigi12_work> I've been thinking about this for some time, i think it's a good idea 20:24:35 <MrsB> In general it could be good yes 20:24:45 <Luigi12_work> as was said on the list, at least one other person must test, and someone else must validate 20:25:18 <MrsB> It relies on the packager doing proper testing is one concern but another is that it could cause conflict between qa tester and packager 20:25:36 <Luigi12_work> we have conflicts as it is :o) 20:25:42 <MrsB> I know :\ 20:26:04 <Kernewes> I'm not sure about it 20:26:13 <Kernewes> wouldn't QA be less independent? 20:26:18 <harms> I am not so much preoccupied with conflicts - its that a packager having implemented 20:26:33 <harms> bad logic will probably test against that bad logic 20:26:38 <Kernewes> better to have a separate team with no personal interest in the packages, I would have thought 20:26:49 <MrsB> thats a valid point harms 20:27:03 <MrsB> that is kind of the way I'm thinking too Kernewes 20:27:06 <DavidWHodgins> We would have to have at least one person on our team test before validating. 20:27:22 <DavidWHodgins> So I don't see it as a problem. 20:27:24 <Kernewes> more than that, with 4 archs 20:27:35 <MrsB> they would test on just one 20:27:59 <Luigi12_work> if there continues to be pushback from packagers about "slowness" of QA, someone might suggest Fedora's policy, which you would like even less. I think this is a good compromise with low risk. 20:28:35 <MrsB> This isnt really about that though 20:28:51 <MrsB> It's just an effort to allow them to speed things up if they so wish 20:29:00 <harms> it might even be a possiblity to systematically involve the packager/maintainer into testing 20:29:04 <Luigi12_work> exactly 20:29:17 <harms> and have some formal handling for these issues 20:29:26 <DavidWHodgins> Should make it easier for us to get testing procedures from them. 20:29:29 <MrsB> we've had very very few do any QA testing so far so it might be a non issue 20:29:58 <Kernewes> but should we have to compromise QA's independence in order to get them to do what they ought to be doing for us anyway? 20:30:16 <Luigi12_work> it's not that black and white Kernewes 20:30:32 <DavidWHodgins> I don't view it as a compromise of our independence. It's just providing us with more help. 20:30:35 <Luigi12_work> like when I patch something for a security update and I have no idea what it does 20:31:10 <DavidWHodgins> If you don't know how to test it, we'll still have to find out on our own, as we've been doing. 20:31:14 <MrsB> We have to be clear about this as once we say yes to this it will be very difficult to start saying no. I suggest a trial period if people are generally for the idea with a review at the end. 20:31:57 <Kernewes> sounds reasonable 20:32:20 <MrsB> can we get a general concensus then, for or against? 20:32:26 <DavidWHodgins> How about a scheduled review in say two months? 20:32:41 <DavidWHodgins> I'm in favour. 20:32:50 <Kernewes> ok by me 20:32:53 <harms> simply enhancing a dialog with the packager will already be a good thing - and ok for the 2 mth review 20:33:15 <MrsB> alfred_: do you see any problems with this? 20:33:31 <alfred_> no i agree too 20:33:38 <MrsB> Luigi12_work: you're for this aswell? 20:33:42 <Luigi12_work> yep 20:33:57 <MrsB> so lets say then that we will trial the idea. 20:34:18 <MrsB> we'll review it in approximately 2 months 20:34:39 <MrsB> unless we start losing hair before then in which case we'll review earlier 20:34:44 <Kernewes> lol 20:34:56 <Luigi12_work> policy review at oktoberfest 20:38:11 <MrsB> #agreed We agree in principle to a trial period of allowing packagers to test their own update if they so wish on just one arch in exchange for creating a testing procedure. It must be properly tested and must be only one arch. QA will test all other arch's. Trial will be reviewed in approx 2 months unless there is a reason to review earlier. 20:38:20 <MrsB> look Ok? 20:38:57 <DavidWHodgins> I'd remove the "in principle" part. 20:39:04 <MrsB> #undo 20:39:04 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x84820ec> 20:39:28 <MrsB> #agreed We agree to a trial period of allowing packagers to test their own update if they so wish on just one arch in exchange for creating a testing procedure. It must be properly tested and must be only one arch. QA will test all other arch's. Trial will be reviewed in approx 2 months unless there is a reason to review earlier. 20:39:41 <DavidWHodgins> Looks good to me. 20:39:49 <Kernewes> yup 20:39:53 <harms> ok 20:39:55 <alfred_> yes 20:40:02 <MrsB> great :) 20:40:06 <MrsB> thankyou 20:40:26 <MrsB> #topic Anything Else? 20:40:33 <MrsB> Is there anything else? 20:41:04 <DavidWHodgins> Not here. 20:41:10 <Kernewes> no 20:41:10 <harms> not from me 20:41:20 <alfred_> no 20:41:41 <MrsB> Thankyou all for coming then. Sorry it wasn't a short one, I thought it would be :\ 20:41:50 <MrsB> Same time next week! 20:41:50 <Kernewes> that's meetings for you 20:41:55 <MrsB> #endmeeting