19:53:31 <neoclust> #startmeeting 19:53:31 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Mon Mar 29 19:53:31 2021 UTC. The chair is neoclust. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:53:31 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:53:53 <papoteur> \o/ 19:53:59 <neoclust> #topic - Mageia's status changes for the undersigned members required by French Laws. 19:54:07 <neoclust> auroud85[m]: what can you tell us about this ? 19:54:41 <lewyssmith> [It was a mystery to me] 19:55:02 <DavidWHodgins> We nned at least 20% of agm members present, We should have agm members say "present" to ensure counted 19:55:09 <auroud85[m]> Our status have past Director postal address registered for french administration 19:55:30 <lewyssmith> Why the list of people? 19:55:43 <bruno> present 19:55:47 <ns80> present 19:55:48 <marja> present 19:55:48 <auroud85[m]> In order to change that for administration, we need to vote for the change. 19:55:52 <auroud85[m]> Present 19:55:53 <yurchor> present 19:55:54 <MageiaTJ> present 19:55:55 <vouf_> present 19:55:57 <jybz[m]> Present 19:55:57 <joeghi> present 19:55:59 <neoclust> present 19:56:00 <lewyssmith> present 19:56:03 <DavidWHodgins> On the meeting record as per https://wiki.mageia.org/mw-en/index.php?title=Org_Statutes&action=edit§ion=18 19:56:06 <DavidWHodgins> present 19:56:11 <Luigi12> present 19:56:18 <filip__k> present 19:56:21 <auroud85[m]> Hi Luigi12 19:56:38 <Luigi12> o/ 19:56:49 <DavidWHodgins> That's 11 by my count. We need 13 19:57:02 <neoclust> papoteur: Akien are here, please say "present" 19:57:09 <marja> anaselli: Akien: ^^^ 19:57:18 <papoteur> present 19:57:28 <neoclust> 12 19:57:45 <auroud85[m]> The French Administration has asked us to modify status in order to register the new postal address. 19:57:45 <neoclust> maat: please tell too 19:58:01 <neoclust> auroud85[m]: wait for us to be the good number :) 19:58:02 <DavidWHodgins> So 15 present. I miscounted at first. :-) 19:58:08 <filip__k> barjac: ping 19:58:13 <lewyssmith> So it seems... 19:58:31 <Comral[m]> present 19:58:38 <filip__k> wikigazer: ping 19:59:15 <filip__k> King_InuYasha: ping 19:59:22 <King_InuYasha> pong 19:59:27 <neoclust> with Comral[m] we are 13 19:59:32 <maat> too 19:59:35 * King_InuYasha is here 19:59:37 <neoclust> King_InuYasha: say present as you are in the AG :) 19:59:39 <filip__k> King_InuYasha: say present ;) 19:59:45 <King_InuYasha> I'm present 19:59:47 <neoclust> maat: say present 19:59:48 <King_InuYasha> present 19:59:50 <maat> I'm preent too 19:59:57 <maat> present 20:00:02 <neoclust> so 15. 20:00:03 <King_InuYasha> also hey Luigi12 20:00:03 <marja> Comral[m]: sorry, who are you? 20:00:11 <neoclust> is it enough ? 20:00:16 <bruno> we need 21 20:00:19 <neoclust> ah 20:00:37 <papoteur> marja: Comral[m] is a guy from MLO 20:00:43 <marja> papoteur: thx 20:00:53 <DavidWHodgins> 18 present. No, we only need 20% of the 64 members present. That's 12.8 rounded up to 13 20:01:02 <filip__k> leuhmanu_: ping 20:01:04 <neoclust> blino: rtp: 20:01:09 <neoclust> are you around please ? 20:01:21 <bruno> No we need 1/3 of the association members as per the french doc here: https://www.mageia.org/fr/about/constitution/ 20:01:22 <[mbot> [ Statuts de l’association Mageia.Org ] 20:02:00 <bruno> for an extraordinary AG article 13) 20:02:18 <DavidWHodgins> Article 13 says 20% 20:02:30 <neoclust> bruno: i sent a message to rda and dams 20:02:39 <papoteur> Is there some powers given by absents? 20:02:48 <bruno> the english version is incorrect then as the french version is the one ruling IIRC 20:03:08 <bruno> powers can be given provided they are sent to the secretary 20:03:23 <papoteur> DavidWHodgins: 20% is for proposition to hold a GA 20:03:26 <auroud85[m]> <papoteur "Is there some powers given by ab"> No power registered 20:03:35 <bruno> 20% is the number required to ask for an extraordinary AG 20:04:08 <bruno> we just miss 3 persons 20:04:11 <neoclust> i am lost, how many missing now 20:04:13 <neoclust> ok 3 20:04:18 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Correct 1/3 of 64 =21.3, so round up to 22 20:04:18 <auroud85[m]> Quorum is only need at first convocation. At second time, if we can't have quorum today, it will not be required. 20:04:52 <bruno> for an ordinary yes, but it seems that's not true for an extraordinary 20:04:52 <marja> Latte: I didn't see your "present", sorry if you already said that 20:05:12 <neoclust> DavidWHodgins: 21,3=> 21 :) this is less than 5 :) 20:05:12 <bruno> while we're at it (if we succeed we could adapt that if it doesn't really make sense) 20:05:30 * anaselli is here, but can't read all in time 20:05:43 <marja> anaselli: please say "present" 20:05:53 <anaselli> present 20:05:54 <DavidWHodgins> bruno: We can't add topics without 2 weeks notice 20:06:02 <marja> anaselli: thx 20:06:18 <anaselli> ywc 20:06:39 <neoclust> with anaselli here, we miss 2 people ? 20:06:59 <bruno> Normally we should also have been invited 15 days in adavnce :-( So that's also probably why so few people joined 20:07:18 <neoclust> bruno: this have been done 15 days in advance 20:07:26 <lewyssmith> I think we were. 20:07:33 <bruno> I received the mail last friday on my side... 20:07:42 <neoclust> bruno: this was a reminder :) 20:07:55 <neoclust> bruno: i asked auroud85[m] to do a reminder :-) 20:08:01 <bruno> Ah sorry if that's the case then I didn't see the first mail :-( 20:08:45 <auroud85[m]> So we don't have required member to vote? 20:08:51 <ns80> yes I recieved it on March 15 20:08:53 <filip__k> auroud85[m]: great reminder BTW 20:09:03 <auroud85[m]> <filip__k "auroud85: great reminder BTW"> Thanks. 20:09:11 <neoclust> so, how many people are missing ? 20:09:13 <neoclust> 2 ? 20:09:15 <bruno> Ok, I see that on the ml archives sorry, I may have had a spam filter too agressive. will check... 20:09:27 <jybz[m]> Who is missing ? 20:09:37 <auroud85[m]> As there are DST involved, I made it. 20:10:09 <bruno> And thanks for the reminder auroud85 ! 20:10:19 <Akien> present 20:10:32 <neoclust> YES :) one left missing 20:10:35 <marja> Akien: thx 20:10:39 <neoclust> if i count correctly 20:10:44 <vouf_> We are 19 20:10:51 <neoclust> ah still 2 then 20:11:23 <ns80> did you count anaselli? 20:11:28 <neoclust> i tried to ping ennael and pterjan 20:11:32 <auroud85[m]> He is listed 20:11:42 <vouf_> ns80:yes 20:11:58 <bruno> Another solution is to remove people from the association to have less than 64 :-) 20:11:59 <papoteur> wikigazer: ping 20:12:14 <papoteur> bruno: :D 20:12:21 <neoclust> pinging David_david 20:13:05 <ns80> I count 20 20:13:17 <auroud85[m]> Hum, this list http://people.mageia.org/g/mga-association-members.html there are members but not really all are Active members, don't they? 20:13:19 <[mbot> [ people.mageia.org: g/mga-association-members ] 20:13:42 <bruno> I don't have access to list members on my side 20:13:55 <bruno> on the ml server I mean 20:13:56 <vouf_> ping stormi 20:14:06 <neoclust> only one is missing :( 20:14:46 <vouf_> ping rtp 20:14:47 <jybz[m]> Can someone ping leuhmanu, or doktor5000 ? 20:15:42 <jybz[m]> Ghibo ? 20:15:46 <anaselli> joeghi: 20:16:07 <jybz[m]> Martin W ? 20:16:13 <MageiaTJ> wilcal? 20:16:20 <lewyssmith> (The next time such a meeting is announced, it looks important to emphasise that people show up) 20:16:42 <jybz[m]> Tmb ? 20:16:54 <neoclust> can someone mail tmb ? 20:17:03 <anaselli> jybz[m]: Ghibo is joeghi 20:17:14 <DavidWHodgins> If we don't have a quorum, we have to postpone at least two weeks. No quorum will be required for the second exttraordinary general meeting 20:17:54 <auroud85[m]> Remember we have 3 months since 1st March 2021 to make change to our status if we don't want French Administration to dissolve the Association, if we don't make the necessary changes, current direction can be jailed or must pay a fine. 20:18:07 <vouf_> No quorum is required on second call. 20:18:35 <lewyssmith> I have e-mailed Thomas; but maybe he is in an earlier timezone, & it is late. 20:18:58 <neoclust> lewyssmith: i mailed him too :) 20:19:09 <MageiaTJ> I just emailed wilcal. 20:19:18 <bruno> I mailed the ml (if I'm allowed to) to ask to members to come. 20:19:35 <Luigi12> so it's not possible to post the meeting logs and allow those who can't make the IRC meeting to vote later on anything that requires it? 20:19:44 <auroud85[m]> <bruno "I mailed the ml (if I'm allowed "> Thanks and received 20:19:45 <neoclust> Luigi12: no 20:19:49 <neoclust> Luigi12: afaik 20:20:19 <auroud85[m]> <Luigi12 "so it's not possible to post the"> No we need proxy. 20:20:28 <lewyssmith> For Thomas, it is after 23.20. 20:20:48 <bruno> Well, when you want to change the rules of managing an association, you need a certain number of members to agree. That's a bit painful, but a security. 20:21:00 <auroud85[m]> A member can have a vote for him and for an other member. 20:21:01 <marja> I apped obgr_seneca and stormi 20:21:05 <neoclust> bruno: we need this security 20:21:23 <bruno> Yes I agree neoclust 20:21:29 <auroud85[m]> <neoclust "bruno: we need this security"> This is the only one 20:22:14 <Akien> FYI, I don't seem to have been subscribed to the new ML, I guess it's the same for some others. 20:22:28 <lewyssmith> (Another note for next time: if you cannot attend, ask somebody else to vote for you (assuming same view)) 20:22:44 <bruno> Yes that should be in the invite indeed ! 20:22:55 <DavidWHodgins> Akien: That should have been handled automatically as it's based on ldap. 20:23:07 <neoclust> i just asked boklm to come 20:23:17 <auroud85[m]> <lewyssmith "(Another note for next time: if "> I think I did it... 20:23:17 <AndroUser> obgr_seneca present 20:23:28 <bruno> \o/ 20:23:29 <marja> AndroUser: SUPER 20:23:38 <bruno> Thx for coming ! 20:23:47 <AndroUser> No problem 20:23:48 <lewyssmith> Aur: sorry! 20:23:49 <ns80> Thanks ! 20:23:59 <auroud85[m]> <lewyssmith "Aur: sorry!"> ;) 20:24:02 <marja> AndroUser: Danke Dir 20:24:07 <bruno> 21, let's go to the vote quickly then ;-) 20:24:31 <Luigi12> ahh auroud85[m] got the time wrong in the e-mail, maybe some will show up in 5 minutes 20:24:39 <DavidWHodgins> AndroUser: Who are you? Mga login, that is. 20:24:41 * bruno 14 yes vote for a proposal to pass 20:24:53 <MageiaTJ> My hair is getting whiter by the minute. ;-) 20:25:01 <marja> DavidWHodgins: he is obgr_seneca 20:25:17 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. HIYa Oliver. :-) 20:25:23 <obgr_seneca> Hi 20:25:32 <neoclust> obgr_seneca: hello :) 20:25:43 <neoclust> NICE :) we have the quorum :) 20:25:48 <auroud85[m]> #topic Change Mageia's Status to rewrite the postal address 20:26:04 <neoclust> we can start 20:26:08 <neoclust> to summarize 20:26:25 <neoclust> for the moment eh "postal adress" of Mageia.org is at ennael's house 20:26:28 <neoclust> we need to change this 20:26:38 <neoclust> but to change this we need the agreement of the AG 20:27:00 <obgr_seneca> AG? 20:27:12 <papoteur> obgr_seneca: General Assembly 20:27:14 <marja> obgr_seneca: GA 20:27:18 <obgr_seneca> Ah... 20:27:30 <papoteur> this meeting 20:27:33 <neoclust> sorry GA 20:27:44 <auroud85[m]> #topic - Proposal to Change Mageia's Status to rewrite the postal address to Neoclust House 20:28:02 <bruno> Vote yes 20:28:07 <obgr_seneca> Yes 20:28:08 <vouf_> Vote yes 20:28:09 <DavidWHodgins> Yes 20:28:09 <ns80> Yes 20:28:13 <Comral[m]> Yes 20:28:14 <papoteur> Yes 20:28:16 <marja> yes 20:28:18 <lewyssmith> yes 20:28:21 <yurchor> yes 20:28:22 <joeghi> yes 20:28:22 <Luigi12> yes 20:28:24 <jybz[m]> Yes 20:28:27 <neoclust> yes 20:28:33 <MageiaTJ> yes 20:28:34 <auroud85[m]> Yes 20:28:40 <bruno> Voted !! 20:28:45 <filip__k> yes 20:29:03 <King_InuYasha> yes 20:29:27 <bruno> 18 votes yes adopted 20:29:28 <papoteur> Akien: ? 20:29:48 <vouf_> maat:? 20:30:05 <Akien> ye 20:30:07 <Akien> yes 20:30:10 <marja> anaselli: ^^^:-) 20:30:28 <King_InuYasha> question though: is there not an equivalent of a P.O. Box for mailing addresses like this? 20:30:54 <lewyssmith> We can advance to the next point anyway. 20:30:58 <marja> MrsB: welcome 20:31:02 <bruno> The change could be written : association located at the address of its president to ease stuff 20:31:03 <lewyssmith> Claire! super. 20:31:05 <Akien> Hi MrsB o/ 20:31:07 <neoclust> ok next ount :) 20:31:09 <papoteur> King_InuYasha: I don't this is allowed 20:31:10 <MrsB> Morning all 20:31:17 <King_InuYasha> papoteur: hmm okay 20:31:20 <MageiaTJ> Hi, Claire! 20:31:21 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa Claire! 20:31:24 <neoclust> bruno: yes this will be simpler when we will change of president 20:31:26 <maat> vouf_: ? 20:31:27 <MrsB> o/ 20:31:34 <maat> yes 20:31:44 <filip__k> MrsB: o/ 20:31:50 <King_InuYasha> does that work if the president doesn't reside in France? 20:31:51 <bruno> neoclust: wors for you as well ;-) 20:31:51 <neoclust> MrsB: Hello 20:31:59 <King_InuYasha> that can theoretically happen after all 20:31:59 <marja> 20 yes votes now 20:32:23 <neoclust> nice :) 20:32:24 <papoteur> King_InuYasha: no, address should be in France 20:32:31 <MrsB> Hey everyone :) what a welcome! 20:32:41 <maat> are there votes against or abstentions ? 20:32:43 <neoclust> MrsB: always happy yo see you :) 20:32:50 <filip__k> neoclust: +1 20:32:55 <King_InuYasha> hey MrsB, long time no see 20:33:05 <MrsB> it has been 20:33:19 <MrsB> dont hold up the meeting though 20:33:19 <marja> maat: anaselli didn't vote, nor did MrsB 20:33:35 <lewyssmith> Does it matter? 20:33:41 <bruno> not really 20:33:54 <marja> MrsB: this was about moving the address of the association to Neoclust's home 20:33:57 <MrsB> I read the proposals in the email and approve of them, if that helps 20:34:13 <neoclust> MrsB: so you vote for? :) 20:34:14 <maat> [22:33] <lewyssmith> Does it matter? <-- just to makesure minutes are clean 20:34:33 <MrsB> I vote yes to change the address 20:34:43 <neoclust> :) 20:34:57 <MrsB> for the record I think it's a great board we have now 20:35:03 <marja> +1 20:35:04 <Akien> +1 20:35:10 <bruno> +1 20:35:11 <anaselli> No problem for me, yes 20:35:12 <obgr_seneca> +1 20:35:15 <yurchor> +1 20:35:16 <MageiaTJ> +1 20:35:22 <ns80> +1 20:35:31 <auroud85[m]> Topic - Mageia's constitution article 9: Executive Commitee addendum. Add current board names 20:35:45 <neoclust> auroud85[m]: can you explain ? :-) 20:36:24 <anaselli> Hi MrsB!!!! 20:36:35 <lewyssmith> Is this really required by French law? If so, it means a meeting every time the board chages to adapt the constitution. 20:36:35 <MrsB> o/ 20:37:03 <auroud85[m]> In this Article 9, we have only the name of the first board. Proposal: add current board members names for president, treasurer and secretary 20:37:24 <DavidWHodgins> The vote for Nicolas Lécureuil (neoclust) as chairman/president, Maat (maat) as treasurer, and Aurelien Oudelet (auroud85) as secretary was completed in the agm. Do we need to repeat that vote here? 20:37:29 <bruno> No generally names are NOT in the "constitution". It's just a summary of the meeting which was held and voted for new people. That's what the post will need for the cnahge e.g. 20:37:37 <auroud85[m]> <lewyssmith "Is this really required by Frenc"> Board are physical persons who represent the Association. 20:37:48 <anaselli> but why those names are needed in constitution? 20:37:51 <maat> DavidWHodgins: no need 20:37:56 <neoclust> DavidWHodgins: no, no need to revote 20:37:58 <lewyssmith> Could the constitution have a reference to the current board list? 20:38:05 <auroud85[m]> They must be identified by the French Authorities. 20:38:22 <marja> bbs 20:38:25 <King_InuYasha> oh lovely 20:38:34 <anaselli> when a board changes, they should sign... not enough? 20:38:36 <King_InuYasha> do we need to submit addresses and stuff to France? 20:38:49 <King_InuYasha> that's going to be fun... 20:38:53 <neoclust> King_InuYasha: this is more about the "bureau" 20:38:56 <bruno> A document signed by the new president and secretary which summarize the previous AG is what is really needed. 20:39:06 <neoclust> from what is speaking auroud85[m] i think 20:39:14 <Akien> (bureau == Executive Committee) 20:39:24 <King_InuYasha> okay, as long as we're in good shape here 20:39:42 <neoclust> Akien: thanks for the translation, i didn't recall the words :) 20:40:10 <lewyssmith> My fault for throwing stones. Let us just agree the circulated proposal. 20:40:12 <King_InuYasha> in the US, nonprofits usually have to submit such information to the IRS 20:40:12 <DavidWHodgins> So the executive committe was elected by the board during the agm. Just need the paperwork sent to the government. 20:40:32 <King_InuYasha> not sure how France works on this 20:41:01 <neoclust> we need ( the Executive commitee ) to be identified on the status 20:41:08 <neoclust> of the association 20:41:19 <neoclust> from what auroud85[m] told, this is required by french government 20:41:23 <auroud85[m]> <DavidWHodgins "So the executive committe was el"> Yes but a reference to the current Executive Committee is mandatory in the status. 20:41:32 <bruno> Well you'll have to sign the new statutes as president anyway. 20:41:51 <DavidWHodgins> https://wiki.mageia.org/mw-en/index.php?title=Org_Statutes&action=edit§ion=11 20:41:54 <Akien> So that means we need an AGE to update the constitution every year? 20:41:58 <vouf_> As it was before : https://www.mageia.org/fr/about/constitution/ 20:41:59 <bruno> That's not *in* the statutes but attached tas a summary of the meeting. 20:41:59 <[mbot> [ Statuts de l’association Mageia.Org ] 20:42:06 <auroud85[m]> French Authorities want names. 20:42:15 <lewyssmith> Akien, what I redoubted. 20:42:31 <bruno> Very few association do that honestly 20:42:38 <auroud85[m]> <Akien "So that means we need an AGE to "> No. We need to vote for the change as soon as we elected a new board and executive committee 20:42:45 <King_InuYasha> hah, my ability to read French is better than I thought :P 20:42:50 <neoclust> bruno: yes but we want to be perfect :-) 20:43:17 <bruno> Well when we have difficultied to have people voting, I'd tend to make it easier and less perfect ;-) 20:43:29 <auroud85[m]> Last time, we forget to simply to a vote to write this. 20:43:39 <bruno> And in fact perfect is : keep the statutes generic and put the decision in notes from the meeting signed. 20:43:41 <King_InuYasha> based on my reading here, we're just certifying the individuals who have already been voted in, so it's just collecting the names and writing that in 20:43:49 <MageiaTJ> Seems to me like we should be especially careful, since we changed the entire board. 20:43:55 <neoclust> auroud85[m]: can we do like bruno tell ? 20:44:05 <lewyssmith> +1 20:44:12 <yurchor> +1 20:44:20 <obgr_seneca> +1 20:44:20 <MageiaTJ> But, I know nothing of US law, let alone French. 20:44:22 <papoteur> I think we have to ahead now and agree with the proposal 20:44:26 <auroud85[m]> <bruno "And in fact perfect is : keep th"> Yes we can 20:45:13 <Akien> I don't think the composition of the Bureau should be in the constitution, as we'd have to update it every year. 20:45:13 <Akien> Here's what French law advice says (sorry it's in French): 20:45:14 <Akien> Comment effectuer la déclaration de renouvellement du bureau de l’association ? 20:45:14 <Akien> Pour effectuer la déclaration de renouvellement du bureau de l’association, il faut remplir le formulaire CERFA 13971. Cependant, il est également possible de le faire sur papier libre. La déclaration doit ensuite être envoyée au greffe des associations avec tous les documents nécessaires. Une fois la déclaration enregistrée, la 20:45:14 <Akien> préfecture donne un récépissé en guise de preuve. 20:45:45 <Akien> i.e. there's an administrative document to fill to communicate the change of Executive Committee to the French administration. They don't mention updating the constitution. 20:45:47 <bruno> Yep that's enough 20:46:07 <anaselli> that sounds good 20:46:08 <Akien> So IMO we should remove that mention from the constitution and just do what's required by the administration. Simpler. 20:46:09 <lewyssmith> Agree. But not now, for the future. 20:46:10 <King_InuYasha> we should _definitely_ change it to that 20:46:22 <bruno> In fact we can keep the first exec. commitee in the statutes after all. And have a note when it's changed 20:46:25 <King_InuYasha> because constitutional changes should not be routine 20:46:29 <papoteur> Avec tous les documents nécessaires : with all documents needed 20:46:49 <DavidWHodgins> So it is "just the paperwork needs to be filed". :-) 20:47:00 <neoclust> sorry i am little lost. What is the proposal ? 20:47:02 <bruno> it's the notion of "procès-verbal" 20:47:07 <lewyssmith> Probably + birth certificates! 20:47:12 <MageiaTJ> Keep the first exec committee... Not a bad idea, for history's sake. 20:47:30 <MrsB> That sounds more reasonable. The constitution is largely immutible, by design. It'll state the positions to be filled, not the people who fill them each year. It could point to where such record could be found though? 20:47:34 <anaselli> but names should be removed from constitution to avoid a change every vote 20:47:56 <lewyssmith> Claire: what I was trying to say. 20:47:59 <auroud85[m]> Akien, previous names in Constitution and those on the cerfa do not match. And we requested a postal address change, that's why Préfecture ditched the change and request a status change. 20:48:02 <marja> pterjan: welcome 20:48:06 <bruno> the cosntitution mentioned it was the *first* eec. comm. 20:48:42 <Akien> auroud85[m]: We should ask them if they want the EC names in the Constitution, but I don't think it's needed. It was just overzealous to put the first Bureau t here. 20:48:47 <MageiaTJ> MrsB: That's the way the US Constitution works. 20:48:50 <Akien> So my proposal would be to remove this paragraph: 20:48:54 <Akien> " 20:48:54 <Akien> Le premier bureau est composé de : 20:48:54 <Akien> Anne Nicolas, née le 18 février 1971 à Maisons-Lafittes (78), de nationalité française : présidente ; 20:48:54 <Akien> Damien Lallement, né le 21 mai 1980 à Lille (59), de nationalité française : trésorier ; 20:48:54 <Akien> Arnaud Patard, né le 26 janvier 1980 à Harfleur (76), de nationalité française: secrétaire." 20:49:00 <bruno> Akien: +1 20:49:10 <Akien> And possibly replace it by a generic sentence that points to where the current bureau is documented. 20:49:17 <King_InuYasha> Akien: +1 20:49:20 <neoclust> ok for me too 20:49:22 <MrsB> That sounds like the way to go 20:49:26 <ns80> +1 20:49:27 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed 20:49:28 <obgr_seneca> +1 20:49:31 <marja> +1 20:49:31 <bruno> Well it's always documented iin the notes taken during the AG 20:49:35 <lewyssmith> +1 20:49:36 <auroud85[m]> Agreed 20:49:39 <filip__k> +1 20:49:39 <MageiaTJ> I'm good with that. 20:49:41 <jybz[m]> We can add without removing 20:50:01 <jybz[m]> First exec commit will always remain the first 20:50:02 <auroud85[m]> <jybz[m] "We can add without removing"> That's the proposal 20:50:13 <auroud85[m]> Simply add. 20:50:17 <auroud85[m]> Not remove. 20:50:20 <jybz[m]> Ah ok 20:50:47 <jybz[m]> Agree to add a link to mageia.org/exec-commit 20:51:23 <MrsB> Would that necessitate keeping that info up to date though? 20:51:30 <bruno> So we could add that the latest exec commitee is always detailed there in the statutes after the first exec. commitee 20:51:45 <Akien> bruno: +1 20:52:09 <auroud85[m]> <bruno "So we could add that the latest "> That's the initial proposal 20:52:19 <marja> bruno: with "there" you mean mageia.org/exec-commit ? 20:52:20 <papoteur> bruno: sorry, I don't understand 20:52:31 <bruno> marja: yes 20:52:37 <marja> bruno: good 20:52:59 <bruno> I propose to amend article 9 to add the above sentence and link. 20:53:07 <neoclust> bruno: can you, after, help auroud85[m] to write things to the "prefecture" ? 20:53:22 <marja> I agree with bruno 20:53:34 <neoclust> no objection :-) 20:53:38 <lewyssmith> Yes, a separate maintained list of people. 20:53:54 <bruno> we need to validate minutes of this meeting which states that modification (and the others BTW) and send that to the prefecture indeed. I can help you for sure. 20:54:05 <papoteur> bruno: a link to what? 20:54:05 <DavidWHodgins> I agree, provided that's ok with French law. I have no idea. 20:54:10 <auroud85[m]> <bruno "we need to validate minutes of t"> Yeah completely 20:54:29 <Akien> To clarify, bruno and my proposal is basically: https://paste.centos.org/view/b30f739f 20:54:32 <bruno> papoteur: mageia.org/exec-commit 20:54:44 <Akien> Possibly with a URL if that's fine with the French administration. 20:55:02 <Akien> Do we have minutes of GAs somewhere canonical? 20:55:07 <neoclust> Akien: yes "if" 20:55:14 <neoclust> but i vote for the https://paste.centos.org/view/b30f739f 20:55:33 <MrsB> There's nothing preventing the secretary from keeping signed paperwork as well as a link 20:55:35 <bruno> Ok so when we're at it, we should also document the board itself as well, not just the executive comm. as this is also part of the rules. 20:55:47 <lewyssmith> Agree. 20:55:51 <marja> Akien: no, that's your proposal. Bruno's is to only add a link to mageia.org/exec-commit 20:55:51 <papoteur> Akien: this not OK. Executive commitee is not elected by the GA, but the board 20:56:00 <neoclust> bruno: if this is in a weblink, this is simple to do :) 20:56:01 <bruno> minutes ? that's the role off the secretary ;-) 20:56:18 <auroud85[m]> <bruno "minutes ? that's the role off th"> Yes 20:56:31 <bruno> as long as the link doesn't change, it can be put in the statutes nowadays (it's 21st century here ;-)) 20:56:39 <DavidWHodgins> papoteur: Good point. The board chose to vote the committee during the agm, even though it didn't have to. 20:56:41 <Akien> papoteur: ah my bad. Well this is just a draft, but it shows the idea: remove the name, document in a generic way where this information can be fond. 20:56:43 <Akien> *found 20:57:42 <bruno> we can add a first link in article 8 for the board, then a second in article 9 for the exec. comm. 20:58:06 <papoteur> Akien: yes. 20:58:14 <bruno> the first already exists, we need to create the second oen. 20:58:29 <Akien> What's the first link? 20:58:43 <DavidWHodgins> http://people.mageia.org/g/mga-board.html 20:58:44 <[mbot> [ people.mageia.org: g/mga-board ] 20:59:01 <Akien> Let's make a LDAP group for the bureau too. 20:59:24 <papoteur> bruno: Fench administration is not in 21st, I mean it don't agree with information on a link 20:59:48 <bruno> DavidWHodgins: YES !! 21:00:03 <neoclust> papoteur: touché 21:00:18 <obgr_seneca> What Administration hast passend 19th century? 21:00:29 <bruno> papoteur: well we can print the page afterwards to send it to the officials needing it. 21:00:32 <papoteur> it want paper with ink on it. 21:00:45 <MrsB> Could be digitally signed 21:00:52 <bruno> +1 21:01:10 <MrsB> and printed with signature 21:01:16 <bruno> Digital signature is a proof in french law 21:01:24 <Akien> So proposal for the constitution: https://paste.centos.org/view/59037042 21:01:40 <Akien> The `mga-bureau` LDAP group doesn't exist yet, so it would need to be created. 21:02:06 <bruno> Aien: could you also duplicate that paragraph for the board ? La composition du bureau est indiquée 21:02:19 <Akien> Those are just indicative - the actual legally binding composition of the Executive Committee with their address, etc. is sent to the administration. 21:02:31 <bruno> => la composition du board de l'AG... 21:02:34 <Akien> bruno: that's the first chunk 21:02:58 <bruno> Yes but would be also nice to have it in article 8 as well 21:03:16 <Akien> It is :) 21:03:19 <bruno> line 20 & 21 copied and adapted to be put in 5 21:03:24 <Akien> But I forgot to remove my fisrt sentence 21:03:36 <Akien> https://paste.centos.org/view/69f32b58 21:03:47 <Akien> bruno: ah I see what you meant. papoteur told me this was actually inaccurate. 21:04:59 <neoclust> "if" links are OK for administration this is OK for me. 21:05:03 <bruno> Hummm I mean having both the sentence with the link and the fact that it's a reult from a vote during the GA and wirtten in the meeting notes 21:05:23 <bruno> s/reult/result/ 21:05:28 <auroud85[m]> As long as it is written in Cerfa it is OK 21:05:30 <Akien> bruno: the constitution already states how the elections should be done and communicated AFAIK. 21:05:50 <Akien> I think we should change as little as possible. 21:06:00 <auroud85[m]> As long as we have link to current Real name of who does what it is ok 21:06:01 <papoteur> Cerfa is a template 21:06:09 <Akien> If the administration was fine with the current constitution, we don't want to have them re-review it all. 21:06:17 <neoclust> Akien: +1 21:06:23 <MrsB> yes agree Akien 21:06:27 * Luigi12 hopes we wrap this up soon...have to leave in 20 mins 21:06:35 <bruno> No pb, trying to be as precise as needed without too much overhead 21:06:44 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed. Having the executive committee listed in the constitution means the agm has to approve any changes, even though it's the board that elects the committee 21:06:51 * King_InuYasha needs to get food.... 21:06:55 <Akien> But again, from what I read I don't see that we need to have the names of the EC in the constitution. And if so, simply removing the paragraph could be enough. 21:07:15 <bruno> Akien: yes absolutely 21:07:37 <Akien> All that being said, the EC is renewed every 3 years as per constitution, so if we need something simple to move on, we can agree to put the names of the current EC in the constitution, and review this in 3 years with more preparation. 21:07:54 <neoclust> Akien: seems fine 21:07:54 <bruno> no please ! 21:08:36 <papoteur> Akien: yes, I think it's a good way 21:08:46 <neoclust> can we finish this point ? what do we do ? 21:08:49 <bruno> let's vote for your pastebin which is going into the right direction for me (simple, no hardcoded stuff) easy to make evolution during time and elections without changing the statutes everytime) 21:09:07 <neoclust> bruno: but will french administration accept the urls ? 21:09:18 <Akien> We should ask them I suppose. 21:09:29 <auroud85[m]> <neoclust "bruno: but will french administr"> I can ask tomorrow 21:09:38 <neoclust> Akien: if so we will need a new GA :-( 21:09:44 <DavidWHodgins> As the executive committee is decided by the board, it should not be in the constitution, in my opinion. 21:09:48 <jybz[m]> We can vote for two versions ? 21:09:51 <bruno> in the statutes yes !! French administration is on the web (look at work rules e.g. code du travail). They aremuch more modern that what people think :-) 21:10:18 <lewyssmith> Everything on-line. 21:10:21 <joeghi> neoclust: that's what I was wondering. who owns the url domain? 21:10:37 <neoclust> bruno: yes, can we vote for the 2 versions ? and if auroud85[m] have good anwers we use yours 21:10:49 <MrsB> Constitution is not the place to record names imho 21:10:51 <papoteur> auroud85[m]: if you ask tomorrow, we will another meeting to decide 21:10:54 <marja> If the EC doesn't need to be in the constitution, then I'm for removing that part. 21:11:09 <lewyssmith> Claire: very much agree. 21:11:19 <MageiaTJ> +1 21:11:20 <King_InuYasha> please, can we just do that already 21:11:24 <Luigi12> I don't see why we can't decide now contingent upon what he finds out tomorrow, as long as we vote on how to handle each case 21:11:25 <King_InuYasha> we should never need to do this again 21:11:26 <DavidWHodgins> I agree with removing the names if allowed 21:11:26 <bruno> the EC has not have to be in the statutes. I've never seen that in the 10+ association I've been a member of ;-) 21:11:44 <King_InuYasha> hell, I've never seen it in any nonprofit I've been part of 21:11:49 <King_InuYasha> I assumed it was a French quirk 21:11:57 <bruno> Not even 21:11:57 <King_InuYasha> but if bruno is right, we're just doing it wrong 21:12:02 <neoclust> ok so lets go for bruno's proposal 21:12:31 <auroud85[m]> <neoclust "ok so lets go for bruno's propos"> +1 21:12:32 <bruno> Let's vote for this pastebin: https://paste.centos.org/view/69f32b58 21:12:35 <DavidWHodgins> Replacing the names with a link? 21:12:46 <Akien> I suggest we KISS: https://paste.centos.org/view/37219944 21:13:03 <bruno> Summary; provides 2 links for exec comm. + board and remove first exec. comm hard coded. 21:13:04 <Akien> If the names don't need to be in the constitution, then we shouldn't bother putting URLs either. 21:13:16 <neoclust> Akien: even simpler :) yes 21:13:18 <Akien> All this information is properly given outside the constitution, we don't need to overload it. 21:13:20 <King_InuYasha> Akien: +1 21:13:27 <bruno> Akien: this second version is useless :-( 21:13:29 <auroud85[m]> +1 21:13:32 <vouf_> Akien:yes 21:13:35 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed 21:13:38 <bruno> We'll have to come back for another session then :-( 21:13:48 <Akien> bruno: Why? It just removes the names which are not meant to be there. 21:13:58 <Luigi12> I don't see a need for another meeting 21:14:13 <marja> I'm for Akien's proposal if allowed, and else for bruno's 21:14:13 <anaselli> ok for me 21:14:23 <King_InuYasha> marja: +1 21:14:35 <ns80> marja: +1 21:14:36 <filip__k> marja: +1 21:14:36 <lewyssmith> Like Marja. 21:14:37 <Luigi12> +1 21:14:40 <jybz[m]> I agree 21:14:44 <bruno> That's not important. What is important is to show to the administration how we proceed with elections and manage renewal and how we publish this. I'm not sure to understand whay having URLs in a consitution is creating an issue ? 21:14:46 <anaselli> marja: +1 21:14:48 <neoclust> bruno: can we vote for both, and if french administration agrees use the one you provided ? with the links ? 21:15:24 <bruno> we can vote for both, less hassle whatever the result of your query ;-) 21:15:33 * MageiaTJ doesn't understand French and is getting lost. 21:15:35 <Akien> So let me make a formal proposal we can vote on. 21:15:37 <MrsB> I'd prefer to see a permanent place the names could be found noted in the constitution, whether that's a url or a piece of paper with the secretary 21:15:43 <neoclust> Akien: tks 21:15:54 <papoteur> neoclust: no we have to vote for one version ! 21:15:58 <lewyssmith> The links are for 'openness' 21:15:59 <bruno> +1 MrsB 21:16:04 <neoclust> papoteur: ok :) 21:16:11 <DavidWHodgins> The invitation states we are discussing "Mageia's constitution article 9: Executive Commitee addendum". Im in favour of simply listing the positions, not the names. 21:16:25 <lewyssmith> Agree. 21:16:31 <bruno> positions are already mentioned BTW 21:16:44 <DavidWHodgins> That way the board can change who is in which position whenever necessary. 21:16:55 * King_InuYasha just checked the OMA documents, it pretty much aligns with Akien's interpretation: https://www.openmandriva.org/en/doc/association/article/statutes 21:17:11 <anaselli> MrsB: a permanent place does not mean into constitution though... 21:17:12 <Akien> Proposal: We vote on the following, in orders of priority depending on what the administration agrees with: 21:17:12 <Akien> 1) Removal of names of the first bureau, addition of links to the people.mageia.org lists for Bureau and Board. 21:17:12 <Akien> If 1) is not possible: 21:17:12 <Akien> 2) Removal of names of the first bureau. No addition. 21:17:12 <Akien> If 2) is not possible: 21:17:12 <Akien> 3) Removal of names of the first bureau, addition of names of the current bureau. 21:17:28 <bruno> Article 9 gives the 3 positions that are elected by the board at each renewal. 21:17:42 <anaselli> url can also gives 404.... :p 21:17:44 <Akien> (I suggest you vote for the whole proposal I'm making, which gives us 3 options depending on what the administration accepts) 21:18:26 <King_InuYasha> Akien: I would prefer 2 to be preferred, since that means we just delete, not add anything 21:18:27 <bruno> Vote for Akien's proposal: 21:18:42 <Luigi12> yes 21:18:44 <marja> yes 21:18:45 <MrsB> Akien: Agree with that list of priorities 21:18:46 <yurchor> yes 21:18:46 <ns80> yes 21:18:47 <bruno> yes 21:18:48 <vouf_> yes 21:18:48 <lewyssmith> yes 21:18:51 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed, with option 2 preferred 21:18:53 <Comral[m]> yes 21:18:56 <auroud85[m]> Yes 21:18:57 <King_InuYasha> yes, with option 2 preferred 21:18:58 <neoclust> yes 21:19:00 <papoteur> abstention 21:19:08 <anaselli> yes with option 2 too as preferred 21:19:13 <maat> abstention 21:19:30 <joeghi> yes 21:19:31 <filip__k> Agreed, with option 2 preferred 21:19:43 <MageiaTJ> yes 21:19:51 <bruno> 16 votes for and 2 abstentions 21:20:39 <lewyssmith> (Addendum: I also prefer option 2) 21:20:42 <neoclust> ok nice, some work for auroud85[m] tomorow 21:20:43 <DavidWHodgins> papoteur: I don't think you need to abstain, just because you proposed it. 21:21:08 <bruno> anything else to vote ? 21:21:09 <marja> I prefer option 2, too 21:21:10 <auroud85[m]> <neoclust "ok nice, some work for auroud85 "> Yeah. 21:21:16 <MrsB> \o/ 21:21:16 <Akien> I think we all agree that both 1) and 2) would be fine, and some do prefer 2). Let's decide based on what the administration advises? 21:21:27 <auroud85[m]> End of topic. 21:21:28 <marja> yep 21:21:35 <Luigi12> so that was #2 of 3 things to discuss, yes? 21:21:38 <neoclust> nice :) 21:21:39 <marja> yes 21:21:39 <Akien> I also tend to favor 2) now that I think of it, it would be a pain to have to change the constitution if we change domain name or similar. 21:21:56 <marja> Akien: yeah 21:21:57 <jybz[m]> Agree 21:21:59 <bruno> Hummm changing domain name ? really ;-) 21:22:09 <King_InuYasha> yup 21:22:13 <King_InuYasha> that could happen 21:22:18 <Akien> Happens if we forget to renew it. Or we could stop using LDAP or people.mageia.org or whatnot. 21:22:26 <Akien> The infra can evolve and obsolete the URLs. 21:22:26 <bruno> Well then association won't be very alive then 21:22:28 <King_InuYasha> right, if we change systems, we'd be in trouble 21:22:29 <neoclust> auroud85[m]: is there a third topic ? 21:22:35 <Luigi12> King_InuYasha: can you be my proxy for whatever topic #3 is? 21:22:39 <King_InuYasha> Luigi12: sure 21:22:41 <lewyssmith> We still need to vote about Article 4, Registered Office. 21:23:03 <neoclust> lewyssmith: this was the first vote 21:23:20 <bruno> yes 21:23:20 <neoclust> iirc 21:23:32 <neoclust> auroud85[m]: is there something more to speak ? 21:23:41 <neoclust> from https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/nkEGxQmeCnkiQGDkWnledJww/message.txt 21:23:58 <King_InuYasha> Akien: OpenMandriva does not list individuals in their association docs, so I don't think we have to either 21:24:03 <lewyssmith> Sorry; I thought that was the leading 'Mageia.Org', that it occurred twice. My mistake. 21:24:30 <auroud85[m]> No this has been discussed. 21:25:04 <MrsB> uhoh, the matrix has us 21:25:07 <bruno> I think we covered everything that was proposed for change 21:25:13 <King_InuYasha> we did, I think 21:25:20 <DavidWHodgins> Let's close the meeting. All three topics have been approved 21:25:25 <King_InuYasha> +1 21:25:29 <bruno> +1 21:25:32 <ns80> +1 21:25:33 <marja> +1 21:25:35 <King_InuYasha> on behalf of Luigi12: +1 21:25:37 <auroud85[m]> +1 21:25:42 <Akien> +1 21:25:44 <vouf_> ++ 21:25:45 <yurchor> +1 21:25:45 <lewyssmith> agree 21:25:46 <neoclust> i hope we won't have to make you come for such topics :) 21:25:48 <MrsB> :) 21:25:50 <MageiaTJ> +1 21:25:51 <joeghi> yes 21:26:05 <jybz[m]> +1 21:26:14 <auroud85[m]> #topics - Anything else? 21:26:23 <jybz[m]> Good night 21:26:27 <marja> good night all :-D 21:26:30 <neoclust> nothing for me :) 21:26:33 <King_InuYasha> nothing from me 21:26:36 <MrsB> Well done guys 21:26:37 * King_InuYasha needs fooood 21:26:38 <filip__k> +1 21:26:40 <vouf_> Good morning for others 21:26:47 <filip__k> good night 21:26:48 <ns80> bo to bed then :-) 21:26:55 <ns80> s/bo/go 21:26:57 <filip__k> vouf_: ;) 21:26:58 <Akien> I suggest that if we do need a second meeting for one reason or another (administration can be tough :)), we should aim to finalize the proposals on the ML before the meeting so that we can just vote on IRC. 21:27:02 <auroud85[m]> Nothing. Go to bed. 21:27:14 <auroud85[m]> <Akien "I suggest that if we do need a s"> Agreed 21:27:16 <Akien> (This was likely done here too but I didn't receive the emails for some weird reason, I'll look into that.) 21:27:16 <maat> night all 21:27:18 <filip__k> Akien: +1 21:27:28 <yurchor> Good night. 21:27:35 <lewyssmith> Bon nuit 21:27:38 <Akien> i.e. we should have an exact patch for the constitution beforehand. 21:27:42 <maat> Akien: +1 21:27:47 <papoteur> Akien: +1 21:28:04 <papoteur> Bonne nuit 21:28:09 <auroud85[m]> bonne nuit. 21:28:12 <neoclust> gn 21:28:19 <DavidWHodgins> neoclust: Don't forget to close the meeting 21:28:21 <auroud85[m]> Neoclust can you close the meeting 21:28:22 <neoclust> and thanks to everyone :) 21:28:25 <joeghi> good night. 21:28:26 <neoclust> #closemeeting 21:28:27 <King_InuYasha> neoclust: please end the meeting 21:28:30 <King_InuYasha> use #endmeeting 21:28:32 <neoclust> #endmeeting