20:19:20 <marja> #startmeeting 20:19:20 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Nov 21 20:19:20 2017 UTC. The chair is marja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:19:20 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:19:45 <marja> #chair ennael tmb filip_ lebarhon papoteur_ DavidWHodgins 20:19:45 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins ennael filip_ lebarhon marja papoteur_ tmb 20:19:53 <marja> #chair schultz 20:19:53 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins ennael filip_ lebarhon marja papoteur_ schultz tmb 20:20:00 <marja> whom did I forget? 20:20:09 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:20:29 <marja> #topic dev meeting / discussion about the feature requests 20:21:06 <marja> #info Ennael and Akien are preparing a first mail to introduce the discussion, it'll hopefully be sent tonight 20:21:30 <marja> To be honest, I'm starting to get the feeling that trying to get our DrakX, mana, urpmi and dnf developers to meet and agree about features, is like trying to get the upstr 20:21:33 <marja> eam KDE and Gnome developers to agree on features. 20:21:59 <marja> Is it silly to ask What Would be needed to allow parallel development including separate testing repositories (and a separate boot.iso + stage2) that support mana and dnf by default? 20:22:00 <papoteur_> :/ 20:23:01 <marja> tmb: can you please shed your light on my maybe foolish question? 20:23:12 <DavidWHodgins> We'd have to make sure we didn't have both branches of iso images going through testing at the same time 20:23:20 <tmb> boot.iso and stage2 is not a problem... we just name them differently and upload them both to the mirrors 20:23:38 <DavidWHodgins> It would be like a fork though. 20:24:02 <marja> DavidWHodgins: I wasn't thinking about full isos, yet.... only later, when mana is more mature 20:24:17 <marja> tmb: thx 20:24:29 <tmb> its not a fork... its more of a POC so we can see the new and still keep the fallback working 20:24:39 <DavidWHodgins> Ok 20:24:51 <marja> DavidWHodgins: but it is nice that you're not a priori against testing both! 20:25:30 <marja> Is there more to say about this topic? 20:25:41 <DavidWHodgins> I'm not against it, just want to make sure we don't make things too confusing for testers. 20:26:28 <marja> DavidWHodgins: that is very wise, we really need to keep that in mind (*if* we get separate isos for old and new tools) 20:27:29 <DavidWHodgins> If we do go with separate iso images, I'd suggest having staged releases. Release one, then a few months later the other. 20:27:31 <marja> What would be a good #info line about the possibility to support both? 20:28:23 <marja> DavidWHodgins: I like that idea 20:28:47 <DavidWHodgins> I'd wait till after the packagers do meet before including anything that seems like a formal announcment 20:30:14 <tmb> new boot isos would be built against every new kernel as normal... its the stage2 part that is the harder part.. 20:30:30 <marja> DavidWHodgins: I don't want a formal announcement, but I want ennael and Akien to see it, so they have another option as fallback if the discussion doesn't go as desired 20:31:31 <marja> DavidWHodgins: but they'll see it now, since I mentioned them ;-) 20:31:41 <DavidWHodgins> #info Council is open to considering having new iso images created that use dnf and mana tools as default, if needed, but with some restrictions. 20:31:56 <DavidWHodgins> How's that? 20:32:04 <marja> DavidWHodgins: almost good 20:32:17 <marja> DavidWHodgins: it misses that the normal isos will still be there 20:32:31 <DavidWHodgins> #undo 20:32:31 <Inigo_Montoya> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0xf6649ecc> 20:32:45 <DavidWHodgins> #info Council is open to considering having additional iso images created that use dnf and mana tools as default, if needed, but with some restrictions. 20:33:01 <marja> DavidWHodgins: perfect, thanks :-) 20:33:15 <filip_> nice 20:33:27 <DavidWHodgins> The restriction being testing and release being staged to be after the regular iso images are released 20:33:44 <marja> DavidWHodgins: fine with me 20:34:20 <schultz> looks good 20:34:38 <papoteur> Fine 20:34:48 <marja> anything else on the feature proposals? 20:35:05 <DavidWHodgins> Not until after the packagers meet 20:35:09 <ennael> nope 20:35:13 <marja> good 20:35:13 <DavidWHodgins> In my opinion. 20:35:30 <papoteur> For what I now, the features review isn't finished, isn't it ? 20:35:58 <marja> papoteur: no, dev/pkg team needs to discuss them 20:36:00 <DavidWHodgins> No. We need to know which features have packagers willing to work on them first 20:36:37 <ennael> then maybe mail a summary about fatures to ask for volunteer 20:38:50 <marja> ennael: that is not (partly) covered by your mail? 20:39:27 <ennael> nope the mail is about drakx/mana tools 20:39:46 <ennael> we can deal on the other side with other feature at least to start work on it 20:40:56 <marja> yeah.... I think Pharaoh_Atem was willing to start meetings about features he's not involved in, if Akien would tell dev ml that he had asked Pharaoh_Atem to do that 20:41:38 <marja> but I don't know whether Pharaoh_Atem (Neal Gompa) was ever introduced as meeting leader by Akien 20:42:06 <ennael> well I don't think he needs to be introduced :) 20:42:24 <ennael> we can send a mail about accepted features and then people can also organize their own work 20:42:33 <marja> ennael: he didn't feel comfortable starting a meeting without the team leaders 20:42:40 <ennael> oh ok 20:42:49 <ennael> I will check with him then 20:42:54 <marja> ennael: thanks 20:43:02 <ennael> I'm back home on thursday, I will check with him 20:43:27 <marja> ennael: perfect... we'll leave it to you, then 20:43:36 <DavidWHodgins> One thing I learned a long time ago that may help him. If you act like you have the authority to do something, people will most likely assume you have it. 20:43:49 <ennael> :) 20:43:54 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: ^^^ 20:44:01 * ennael will call DavidWHodgins yoda 20:44:03 <marja> DavidWHodgins: thx :-) 20:44:07 <ennael> fits well :) 20:44:07 <DavidWHodgins> lol 20:45:23 <marja> Shall we continue with a short teams review and not forget to enjoy what's going very well? 20:45:37 <DavidWHodgins> Sure. 20:45:40 <Pharaoh_Atem> marja: hi? 20:45:52 <DavidWHodgins> Pharaoh_Atem: One thing I learned a long time ago that may help him. If you act like you have the authority to do something, people will most likely assume you have it. 20:46:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> haha 20:46:11 <DavidWHodgins> Go ahead and feel free to call meetings for packagers 20:46:26 <Pharaoh_Atem> DavidWHodgins: hehe, sure :) 20:46:36 <Pharaoh_Atem> I just didn't want to step on anyone's toes unnecessarily 20:46:52 <Pharaoh_Atem> I seem to be good at making people upset when I don't mean to, so I try to be cautious here :) 20:47:03 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:47:14 <ennael> I just checked the wiki 20:47:17 <papoteur> Pharaoh_Atem: if there is no foot, you won't step on any toes ;) 20:47:23 <DavidWHodgins> lol 20:47:24 <ennael> it seems we do not have sum up all accepted features 20:47:32 <schultz> that I can sympathise with :) 20:47:54 <marja> ennael: there are no accepted features, yet, are there? 20:48:08 * ennael is loosing head it seems 20:48:19 <DavidWHodgins> We put the review on hold pending the packagers meeting 20:48:22 <marja> ennael: me too, my memory is bad 20:48:30 <ennael> sorry for thatuntil end 20:48:34 <ennael> oups 20:48:37 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:48:39 <ennael> sorry for that then 20:48:45 <marja> ennael: np 20:49:22 <ennael> ok we need a meeting then 20:49:29 <marja> #agreed let Neal Gompa lead a dev/packagers meeting about the feature requests that aren't his 20:49:33 <ennael> even if I doubt we will have a lot of people 20:50:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> ennael: we do already have some accepted features 20:50:07 <ennael> ah ! 20:50:13 * ennael is not that crazy then 20:50:23 * marja hides 20:50:27 <Pharaoh_Atem> go back to the meeting notes from the one right after the first deadline 20:50:32 <Pharaoh_Atem> iirc, we got through 1/3 of the features 20:50:41 <ennael> ok thanks Pharaoh_Atem :) 20:51:12 <ennael> Pharaoh_Atem: would you mind adding it on the wiki page? 20:51:13 <DavidWHodgins> I don't remember which ones we approved. Will have to dig back through the irc log to figure that out. 20:51:14 <tmb> yeah, no-one just updated the wiki... 20:51:21 <Pharaoh_Atem> http://meetbot.mageia.org/mageia-meeting/2017/mageia-meeting.2017-09-19-19.07.log.html 20:51:22 <[mbot> [ #mageia-meeting log ] 20:51:27 <ennael> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/FeatureMageia7_Review 20:51:28 <Pharaoh_Atem> I can do that, which wiki page is that? 20:51:38 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: thanks! 20:51:43 <ennael> thanks 20:52:19 <DavidWHodgins> I think a new page has to be set up, same as the proposed features but with the word proposed removed 20:53:00 <marja> #action Pharaoh_Atem will list the already approved features in our wiki 20:53:34 <marja> more on the features? 20:53:50 <DavidWHodgins> Not here 20:54:12 <ennael> nope 20:54:47 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Mageia 6.1 20:55:12 <marja> :-D 20:55:13 <DavidWHodgins> Martin is working on a couple of installer bugs. bug 22032 20:55:15 <[mbot> Bug: ['Encrypted partition has wrong size in ext4 FS', 'NEW', 'Mageia tools maintainers'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22032 20:55:25 <DavidWHodgins> And bug 22059 20:55:26 <[mbot> Bug: ["Incorrect UUID for /boot partition may be used when creating the initrd, leading to an unbootable system ( _only_ with stage2's diskdrake; diskdrake from drakxtools works fine)", 'NEW', 'Mageia tools maintainers'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22059 20:55:54 <DavidWHodgins> Would be nice if we can include those fixes in the 6.1 iso images, as well as the various other package updates 20:56:13 <marja> how's the kernel? 20:56:39 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Which kernel is it that 6.1 is waiting for? 20:56:42 <marja> and, yes, it would be nice if those bugs could be fixed and the fix included 20:57:06 <tmb> kernel is shaping up nicely... the only part missing is virtualbox proper support for 4.14 series kernels 20:58:01 <DavidWHodgins> As in being able to run vb under the 4.14 kernels, or having the 4.14 kernels working in vb guests? 20:58:11 <DavidWHodgins> Or both. 20:58:13 <marja> that support becoming available might coincide with those installer bugs getting fixed 21:00:11 <tmb> DavidWHodgins, a bit of both... upstream should hopefully release a 5.2.2 soon-ish that will sort out the missing pieces... 21:00:31 <marja> DavidWHodgins: the new method to become healthy again, includes going to bed at 22:00 CET (now) 21:00:51 <marja> DavidWHodgins: so I won't do another topic 21:01:04 <ennael> do we have another one ? 21:01:26 <DavidWHodgins> The teams review 21:01:44 <DavidWHodgins> marja: Have a good night. 21:01:51 <marja> thanks 21:01:56 <marja> good night all 21:02:03 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Teams review 21:02:09 <papoteur> marja goog night 21:02:46 <DavidWHodgins> The qa team is doing a good job of keeping on top of testing the updates, though I've been doing little myself due to my usual sleep problems this time of year 21:03:25 <DavidWHodgins> I'm holding off notifying the qa iso testers of the 6.1 iso images till we have a better eta for them becoming available for testing. 21:03:42 <DavidWHodgins> That's it for the qa team. 21:03:47 <DavidWHodgins> Next team? 21:04:10 <ennael> can you ping me when you think it's the good time so that I can setupisos ? 21:04:35 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Yes 21:05:05 <schultz> Atelier can go if no one else wants to 21:05:14 <DavidWHodgins> Go ahead 21:06:14 <schultz> Well we need more blog topics, or rather we need people to write the ones that they said that they would 21:06:23 <schultz> myself included in fairness 21:07:10 <schultz> The other big thing I was wanting to bring up was getting an in house image hosting solution going, would be nice to finally get that sorted 21:07:52 <ennael> speaking about atelier 21:08:06 <ennael> as you may have seen Mageia has a bitcoins account 21:08:33 <ennael> and it should bring some significant amount of money 21:08:40 <DavidWHodgins> And the tulip bulbs have been a good investment. :-) 21:08:56 <ennael> maybe we could think about more improvment on Mageia design 21:09:03 <filip_> DavidWHodgins: in the narrow time frame ;) 21:09:17 <ennael> Animtim work did bring a big improvement 21:09:37 <schultz> Yep, that was a nice find 21:10:30 <filip_> ennael: which areas of Mageia design you have in mind? 21:10:38 <schultz> How are things with infra? Don't we need to set aside funds for upgrades there? 21:10:55 <ennael> schultz: we do have money, more then 23k€ 21:11:52 <schultz> ah, I knew we were good financially, didn't realise it was that good 21:14:04 <tmb> yeah, we should buy 2 new powerful buildnodes + maybe a 3rd node for CI.. then the older nodes could do some easier work... and figure out what do do / find better /more powerful arm build nodes to not slow us donw... and we should start looking at bringing up 64bit arm... 21:14:28 <ennael> pb is still there 21:14:34 <ennael> we cannot add more servers in datacenter 21:14:55 <DavidWHodgins> So we need a new data center? 21:15:05 <schultz> Do you think that there will be issues with transferring them? Once its sorted we should put a blog out about what we will use it for and thanking the donators 21:15:14 <ennael> at least the current one is free 21:15:44 <schultz> Listing that hardware remended me that we were wanting to put a blog out about the infra and what we use 21:15:45 <DavidWHodgins> What kind of rates do data centers normally charge? Perhaps we can afford it. 21:16:25 <filip_> I remember some info about closing one data-center 21:16:50 <ennael> the thing is more and more datacenter propose now virtual server 21:17:06 <ennael> hosting physical server may cost a lot 21:17:20 <tmb> well the dead jonund is 2U, and can be replaced by 2 powerful 1U nodes ... and alamut only needs backing up and it can be removed too.. and the old arm nodes in dc can be removed (if they are still there) 21:17:45 <filip_> tmb: which data-center will close? 21:18:51 <schultz> How much power do we need? Surely if we use the money to upgrade what we have, there is enough space there for what we need? 21:18:53 <tmb> it's not the one hosting the buildsystem... it's the one carrying the blog 21:19:13 <ennael> yep they are moving datacenter 21:20:13 <tmb> so it's only gandi vms that are moving 21:20:30 <filip_> so we don't need to do anything 21:20:32 <filip_> ? 21:21:09 <filip_> any netconfig change or something? 21:21:50 <tmb> well the vms should be converted/upgraded/replaceed to fit the new hosting... wich is why pterjan suggeested to look of possible other solutions 21:22:08 <tmb> ennael, are we still getting free gandi credits ? 21:22:40 <ennael> I don't think so 21:23:15 <tmb> otoh gandi people at kernel-recipes told me we get ssl certs for free so just ask if we need more of them :) 21:24:12 <tmb> but that could have been the beer talking :) 21:24:26 <ennael> oh :) 21:24:30 <ennael> I will ping them 21:25:20 <tmb> filip_, technically they can move/re-route ips between data-centers 21:25:46 <filip_> tmb: maybe he talked about Letsencrypt certs? 21:26:17 <ennael> nope they offer quite often some certs to open source projects 21:26:37 <ennael> they did it for kernel.org if I remember well 21:26:38 <tmb> filip_, nope. they provide our current certs too, propery signed for iirc a year at a time 21:27:27 <filip_> sorry. back to topic ;) 21:32:16 <tmb> so seems people is falling asleap again... :) 21:33:10 <tmb> ennael, maybe we should use some of the bitcoins to ship coffeine pills around :) 21:33:24 <ennael> :)) 21:33:28 <DavidWHodgins> :- 21:33:29 * ennael falling asleep also 21:33:43 <schultz> well, I don't think that there is anything more from Atelier, unless filip+ has more to add 21:33:52 <tmb> "cone work with mageia... we got all the pills you need..." 21:34:22 <DavidWHodgins> Let's close this meeting then. We can pick up again next week. 21:35:13 <filip_> ok. I'm sleepy too 21:35:22 <ennael> ok let see that next week then 21:35:38 <tmb> yeah, lets try weekly but shorter meetings from now on... to keep stuff going 21:35:48 <schultz> ok sounds good 21:35:50 <filip_> +1 21:36:42 <filip_> T-5 ;) 21:37:09 <filip_> 4 21:37:20 <filip_> 3 21:37:27 <schultz> 2 21:37:46 <filip_> 1 21:38:07 <ennael> #endmeeting