19:05:38 <marja> #startmeeting 19:05:38 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Oct 3 19:05:38 2017 UTC. The chair is marja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:05:38 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:05:53 <marja> #chair papoteur DavidWHodgins filip Latte 19:05:53 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: DavidWHodgins Latte filip marja papoteur 19:06:43 <marja> #topic docteam.mageia.nl (the server where docteam uploaded its working version of the manuals) is no longer available 19:07:52 <papoteur> This server is useful to have a draft version of our documentation, as soon we modified the Docbook source in Calenco. 19:08:06 <marja> #info half a decade ago, remmy offered docteam to temporaritly use one of his servers, to upload our Calenco documentation drafts via ftp 19:08:51 <marja> #info we have used that solution much longer than originally intended 19:09:20 <marja> #info and it is no longer available like that 19:10:15 <papoteur> #info mageia.nl (we used ftp to upload to docteam.mageia.org) is currently in quarantaine. 19:10:38 <papoteur> see bug 5229 19:10:40 <[mbot> Bug: ['doc-test.mageia.org with (s)ftp upload', 'NEW', 'Sysadmin Team'] https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5229 19:10:48 <marja> #info and remmy doesn't really have time to support this solution for docteam 19:11:59 <marja> so instead of workarounding it by continuing to use Remmy's server (letting e.g. doc-test.mageia.org redirect to the uip address of remmy's server) 19:12:49 <marja> it would be great if we could get some space on Mageia servers and the possibility to upload files to it with (s)ftp from Calenco 19:12:52 <stormi> hi 19:12:58 <marja> stormi: hi :-) 19:13:13 <marja> stormi: I was just wondering whether you could help with that :-þ 19:13:21 <filip> I guess there is another possibility to use existing domain www-test.mageia.org 19:13:53 <stormi> marja: maybe, but I also have other tasks on the queue 19:13:55 <marja> filip: that would be fine, too, as long as we can use (s)ftp 19:13:58 <filip> and git for hrml & co stuff and git as a bin storage as currently 19:14:01 <marja> stormi: np 19:14:11 <marja> stormi: thx for all your work! 19:14:17 <filip> but of course sysadmins have to agree 19:14:39 <marja> filip: yeah, it needs an agreeing sysadmin to work on it 19:14:50 <filip> and also a lot of work is on their side 19:15:10 <marja> in the past ftp was a problem, but I don't think I know why 19:16:06 <marja> maybe we should ask that in the bug report 19:16:32 <filip> ftp is a security nightmare 19:16:47 <filip> worst one ;) 19:16:52 <marja> filip: IINM, Calenco supports sftp now 19:17:59 <filip> I don't know it enough to decide if it's better enough 19:18:17 <filip> is git upload out of the question? 19:19:56 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing should be out of the question, as long as the procedures are clear, and there are no bottlenecks created 19:20:48 <marja> filip: currently looking at the options in Calenco, I see only EMAIL, FTP and SFTP (SCP?SSH) are supported 19:20:52 <marja> oops 19:21:06 <marja> SFTP (SCP/SSH) 19:21:06 <papoteur> filip: I don't understand the link between our need to storage our drafts and git. 19:21:47 <DavidWHodgins> papoteur: It's a matter of controlling who can upload changes 19:21:56 <marja> DavidWHodgins: Calenco doesn't support uploading files with git 19:22:14 <filip> papoteur: tmb arrange the git storage option which goes to our mirrors now (for epub and pdf fies) 19:22:30 <marja> DavidWHodgins: we need to upload directly from Calenco.... there are way too many publication to manually download and then upload with git 19:22:55 <filip> and html & co stuff goes from git directly to web servers 19:24:22 <filip> is it possible for someone from doc team to arange a private sftp server but with option for access from Calenco? 19:24:38 <marja> filip: we could ask simonnzg 19:25:37 <marja> filip: and if we claim ownership of mageia.nl, then maybe no changes will need to be made in Calenco to how the publications are generated 19:25:40 <filip> then that user could use a bit modified sript which are now used for officiall doc pages 19:26:03 <papoteur> filip: I think it's a big deal. The question can be "where ?". 19:27:21 <papoteur> *it's not 19:27:24 <filip> papoteur: where what? 19:27:47 <marja> #Action marja will ask simonnzg whether he'd be willing to maintain an sftp server for docteam and whether he can provide server space for free 19:27:48 <papoteur> where to install the ftp server. 19:28:27 <marja> papoteur: in the past, simonnzg had plenty of server space he could use for backups of our documentation.... he might still have plenty 19:28:29 <filip> papoteur: it should be available for Calenco and preferably no one else 19:30:53 <marja> papoteur: do you think we should ask Mageia to pay € 10 a year for mageia.nl, so that we can keep using docteam.mageia.nl? I got the impression remmy didn't want me to pay it. 19:31:19 <ennael> we can do it :) 19:31:25 <marja> ennael: thx 19:31:28 <ennael> and manage with other domain names 19:32:13 <papoteur> For what I understand, domain name is not the problem. Or we discuss for only 10€ per year? 19:32:51 <ennael> if you look ofr a server and some I guess mageia can pay for it 19:33:01 <ennael> otherwise no need to ask for donations :) 19:33:09 <marja> ennael: great :-) 19:33:46 <ennael> still we need to check what is needed exactly and check with sysadmins how to include it in mageia infra 19:34:39 <papoteur> the actual is a FTP server and a http server. 19:40:22 <papoteur> #action Docteam space: we need to check what is needed exactly and check with sysadmins how to include it in mageia infra 19:40:37 <DavidWHodgins> And do it. :-) 19:41:15 <papoteur> #action and do it, of course. 19:41:22 <Pharaoh_Atem> Yo 19:41:38 <papoteur> next topic ? 19:42:09 <filip> hi Pharaoh_Atem 19:43:01 <DavidWHodgins> Everybody sleeping? 19:43:05 <marja> forking drakx and (maybe) urpmi and more for the urpmi/dnf switch? 19:43:22 <DavidWHodgins> And mana tools 19:44:11 <DavidWHodgins> My main concern is ensuring the installers are changed too, starting asap so it's not a last minute change that only starts when the iso testing starts. 19:44:11 <marja> DavidWHodgins: manatools are ready for dnf (except that dnfdragora isn't in mpan, yet) 19:44:57 <DavidWHodgins> #topic Features - dnf & mana tools 19:45:21 <Pharaoh_Atem> okay then 19:45:34 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, I'm guessing by now everyone saw my rather long email? 19:46:02 <Pharaoh_Atem> ignatenkobrain has signed up for an account in the Mageia identity system 19:46:04 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. I'm ok with both dnf and mana tools, as long as work on the installers starts soon too 19:46:40 <Pharaoh_Atem> so bugs associated with DNF that require upstream attention can be CC'd to him as needed 19:47:12 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: thanks for the reminder 19:48:42 <Pharaoh_Atem> as the question of the installer is really the only piece left to deal with (we have pretty much all the other ducks lined up), from my point of view, I'm not exactly sure what *to* fork to port the installer 19:48:44 <marja> DavidWHodgins: I want manatools to be installed by default and to have much more visibility, but I'm not ready to ditch MCC, because MCC has a lot of tools that mpan doesn't (even if the amount of tools for which the reverse is true,is growing) 19:49:42 <Pharaoh_Atem> at least at one point, tv was okay with the idea of porting to libdnf 19:49:51 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: a lot of code is shared between various drakx tools and traditional installer 19:50:05 <Pharaoh_Atem> so that brings up another bit 19:50:18 <Pharaoh_Atem> I've seen it mentioned that there's a stage2 and other things 19:50:26 <DavidWHodgins> I have no problem with switching to dnf as default, thanks to the shims allowing most urpm commands to be used without changes 19:50:43 <papoteur> the question is who want to work on it? 19:50:45 <papoteur> Is only Pharaoh_Atem? 19:50:48 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: yes, stage2 is the traditional installer 19:51:04 <Pharaoh_Atem> I hope it's not just me, I'm an idiot when it comes to Perl 19:51:27 <Pharaoh_Atem> anaselli is interested in it too, but I think we're going to need more people than just the two of us 19:51:28 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: it'll even be hard for someone who knows Perl 19:51:38 <Pharaoh_Atem> and yes, as DavidWHodgins says, we need to start ASAP 19:51:45 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: you could try getting LpSolit interested 19:52:28 <marja> would it be weird to try to contact pixel (didn't he write much of the installer code, or do I err now?) 19:52:48 <Pharaoh_Atem> Pixel originally wrote drakx and perl-URPM, iirc 19:52:55 <Pharaoh_Atem> but that was literally decades ago 19:53:04 <Pharaoh_Atem> I think the last time anyone heard from him was in 2008 19:53:24 <Pharaoh_Atem> unless someone knows him and can entice him to return to Mageia? 19:53:30 <marja> ouch, I wasn't aware he disappeared 19:53:57 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, the last time *I* heard of him was in 2009 19:54:17 <DavidWHodgins> First time I've ever heard the name pixel since I started with Mandrake 10 19:54:42 <DavidWHodgins> And that, only as a user. 19:54:52 <Pharaoh_Atem> Pascal Rigaux worked at Mandriva from 1999 to 2009 19:55:05 <Pharaoh_Atem> he created urpmi, DrakX, and most of the MCC we know today 19:55:21 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. That name I vaguely remember. 19:55:28 <ignatenkobrain> Pharaoh_Atem: as sgallagh said today "whenever you write something in perl, even random symbols - it would do something" 19:55:37 <Pharaoh_Atem> haha, that's very true 19:55:55 <Pharaoh_Atem> DavidWHodgins: Pascal Rigaux went by pixel on the interwebs :) 19:56:08 <Pharaoh_Atem> he set up the #rpm.org IRC channel too ;) 19:56:25 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. Thanks. Didn't know that, or use IRC etc. back then. 19:56:30 <marja> would this address still work? http://rigaux.org/cv.html 19:56:31 <[mbot> [ Pascal Rigaux - Resume ] 19:56:37 <Pharaoh_Atem> probably 19:56:42 <Pharaoh_Atem> it looks reasonably up to date 19:57:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's a little sad he has no hobbies though 19:57:13 <Pharaoh_Atem> maybe I can rope ignatenkobrain to help me port drakx :P 19:57:19 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: Mageia would be a great hobby :-) 19:57:21 <Pharaoh_Atem> it'll help him with fleshing out libdnf as a library 19:58:20 <Pharaoh_Atem> marja: indeed 19:58:39 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: are you going to contact him? 19:58:51 <Pharaoh_Atem> he doesn't know me, so I dunno if he'd respond to me 19:59:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> has anyone here ever talked to him before? 19:59:21 <marja> ennael: have you ever talked to pixel? 19:59:37 <marja> blino: or you? 19:59:47 <Pharaoh_Atem> the other question is can we get ahold of tv and talk to him too 20:00:07 <Pharaoh_Atem> if we all just hacked at it, I think we could get a prototype going reasonably quickly 20:01:04 <Pharaoh_Atem> with ignatenkobrain on standby to help us with libdnf things, and the rest of us ripping out perl-URPM and replacing it with libdnf through g-i, we could probably get something put together within a few months, maybe sooner 20:01:51 <ennael> forget about Pixel. He is not implied anymore in all this since he left Mandriva 20:01:52 <marja> ennael: or do you know of a way to make it easy or even attractive for tv to talk to Pharaoh_Atem about integrating dnf in installer etc. 20:02:00 <ignatenkobrain> I would not count for less than half year 20:02:25 <Pharaoh_Atem> ignatenkobrain: considering Mageia 7 is like a year out, six months to do it is workable 20:02:32 <Pharaoh_Atem> that gives plenty of time for testing and fixing bugs 20:02:40 <Pharaoh_Atem> we also have to fix our compose tools, too 20:02:53 <Pharaoh_Atem> I don't know how bcd works 20:03:03 <Pharaoh_Atem> and I don't even know how our live media is created 20:03:32 <DavidWHodgins> We are supposed to be targeting 8 months from when Mageia 6 was released 20:03:50 <Pharaoh_Atem> then we better hop to it :P 20:03:53 <DavidWHodgins> If we want to plan for a longer release period, now is the time to decide 20:04:03 <Pharaoh_Atem> but if I'm doing it alone, this is not going to make it 20:04:10 <Pharaoh_Atem> I'm going to need help 20:05:25 <DavidWHodgins> That's always been the problem with any major changes to drak tools 20:05:43 <Pharaoh_Atem> the other option is moving to a different installer tool 20:06:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> which I *really* didn't want to propose because that's an enormous change in itself 20:06:34 <Pharaoh_Atem> our options would be to either adapt Anaconda or Calamares 20:06:41 <Pharaoh_Atem> because there's no way I'm dealing with YaST 20:07:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> ~100 modules written in Ruby plus crazy foo in the main thing itself... 20:07:02 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: Martin Whitaker wrote how to create Live (mga5.1) isos in this mail https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/isobuild/2016-09/msg00067.html 20:07:04 <[mbot> [ isobuild - Developement discussion list about Mageia isos - arc_protect ] 20:08:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> so the tool is draklive 20:09:28 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. draklive-install for the live images, and drakx-installer-stage2 for the classic iso images 20:09:48 <DavidWHodgins> With modules from mcc shared with both 20:10:33 <Pharaoh_Atem> draklive shell-execs urpmi 20:11:01 <Pharaoh_Atem> that should be easy to replace with dnf 20:11:02 <DavidWHodgins> There's also drakx-finish-install 20:11:16 <DavidWHodgins> For the live images on first boot after install 20:11:31 <Pharaoh_Atem> that's the one that does the post-install remove packages, right? 20:11:46 <DavidWHodgins> And renames the live user to the first user created, etc. 20:12:45 <Pharaoh_Atem> what's the git repo for those things? 20:12:58 <Pharaoh_Atem> Martin's message contained the link to draklive's git repo 20:13:54 <Pharaoh_Atem> and I found bcd 20:14:23 <marja> drakx-finish-install comes from drakxtools srpm, which is created from git/software/drakx 20:14:27 <Pharaoh_Atem> when I go up to gitweb, there's quite a few drakx repos: http://gitweb.mageia.org/software/ 20:14:28 <[mbot> [ Mageia git Repositories ] 20:15:08 <DavidWHodgins> I think it's draklive-config 20:15:34 <marja> http://gitweb.mageia.org/software/draklive-install/ 20:15:38 <[mbot> [ draklive-install - Mageia Tools for Live CD/DVD Installation ] 20:16:14 <Pharaoh_Atem> draklive-install has no package management actions 20:17:04 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, aside from calling rpm -e draklive-install 20:17:05 <marja> I think it just copies the Live system 20:17:45 <Pharaoh_Atem> though in retrospect, that really shouldn't be "rpm -e" 20:17:51 <Pharaoh_Atem> that's just a weird thing to do there 20:18:14 <filip> are we micromanaging today? 20:18:23 <marja> filip: yes :-) 20:18:47 <marja> anyway, Martin's instructions look good 20:19:12 <Pharaoh_Atem> that should be a regular wiki page ;) 20:19:28 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: you're right about that 20:19:51 <marja> where did papoteur go? 20:20:05 <DavidWHodgins> Looks like we are losing people 20:20:14 <marja> #action ask docteam to wikify https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/isobuild/2016-09/msg00067.html 20:20:16 <[mbot> [ isobuild - Developement discussion list about Mageia isos - arc_protect ] 20:20:46 <Pharaoh_Atem> so I checked out the drakx repository 20:20:53 <Pharaoh_Atem> and it seems there are perl-URPM calls in here 20:21:00 <marja> yeah 20:21:21 <Pharaoh_Atem> so this is *probably* the portion that needs reworking 20:22:03 <Pharaoh_Atem> ohkay, this is weird 20:22:07 <Pharaoh_Atem> bcd requires both smart and urpmi 20:22:13 <Pharaoh_Atem> it shell-execs both 20:22:15 <DavidWHodgins> Anyway, Pharaoh_Atem, I think now you're getting an idea of the scope of the changes required, and why I'm so concerned about the installers 20:22:45 <Pharaoh_Atem> yeah 20:22:46 <DavidWHodgins> It's a mess that always causes problems that get left too late in the dev cycle 20:22:55 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, I was certainly concerned about the installers to begin with 20:23:04 <Pharaoh_Atem> that's why I posted it as quickly as I could put things together 20:23:08 <marja> and why I proposed to fork drakx and add two dnf isos (instead of replacing all isos with dnf isos) 20:23:15 <DavidWHodgins> And too few people who know the tools available to work on them 20:23:39 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, I think I'm going to wind up forking the repositories into somewhere to work on them 20:23:40 <DavidWHodgins> I really don't like having both 20:24:07 <Pharaoh_Atem> I don't know which one I'll work on first, probably the one I can get set up easiest to test 20:24:22 <DavidWHodgins> Keeping changes in sync, testing, and troubleshooting will become much bigger challenges 20:24:47 <Pharaoh_Atem> at least most of the tools never get touched very often, so that is somewhat good 20:24:53 <Pharaoh_Atem> though the reason for that is pretty awful 20:24:59 <DavidWHodgins> :-( 20:25:32 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, if I have cycles left over after going through this and porting it, I might add Koji tasks for them, so that they can be done automagically using Koji 20:25:46 <DavidWHodgins> I wish the tools used a language that's easier to read than perl, but that's just a personal gripe. 20:25:58 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, my livecd-tools are in Python... 20:26:14 <Pharaoh_Atem> but that doesn't fix the classic installer stuff 20:26:14 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: one of the reasons is, that touching them can lead to unexpected changes 20:26:15 <DavidWHodgins> Yeah! 20:26:28 <Pharaoh_Atem> my livecd-tools would only be able to replace draklive 20:26:32 <DavidWHodgins> Largely because the code is shared by so many tools 20:26:38 <Pharaoh_Atem> yes 20:26:53 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's almost excessive amounts of code sharing ;) 20:27:26 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. mcc, classic installer, live installer, etc. 20:27:45 <Pharaoh_Atem> I'm just surprised that bcd requires both urpmi and smart 20:27:48 <Pharaoh_Atem> that's just dumb 20:27:59 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:28:37 <DavidWHodgins> I think we've lost too many people to continue much more today 20:28:44 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, I have a good idea of what to go forward on 20:28:59 <Pharaoh_Atem> I think now it'd just be good to see if we can get tv to help 20:29:09 <DavidWHodgins> Pharaoh_Atem: Will you put out a msg on the dev ml summarizing what needs to be done, and asking for volunteers to help? 20:29:16 <Pharaoh_Atem> I can, if you'd like 20:29:31 <Pharaoh_Atem> unless someone else can put together a message more quickly 20:29:42 <filip> but this work *is* important. we probaly can't afford maintaing perl for eternity 20:29:55 <Pharaoh_Atem> filip: I agree 20:30:09 <DavidWHodgins> Please do. I think we need to confirm that we have people willing to help you before we can agree to include the features for Mageia 7. If it's going to take a year from now, I think that Mageia 8 would be a better target. 20:30:35 <Pharaoh_Atem> if it would take a year from now, we should start anyway and see how things progress 20:30:58 <Pharaoh_Atem> if we wind up in a situation where it can be included (like what happened with dnfdragora for mageia 6), then more power to us 20:31:08 <marja> indeed, if it's for Mageia 8, starting today is certainly not too early 20:31:08 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. Work on it should start now, but be in parrellel to Mageia 7 development rather then part of it. 20:31:11 <filip> mga7 or 8 we need to start soonish 20:31:55 <filip> it seems like consensus ;) 20:31:58 <Pharaoh_Atem> :) 20:32:18 <Pharaoh_Atem> unless I pull a rabbit out of my hat and make it a thing in ~6 months 20:32:25 <DavidWHodgins> I think we should consider making dnf default for mageia 7, but mana tools not till 8. 20:32:33 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: no obection :-) 20:32:34 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:32:47 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, I'd love to have DNF as default :) 20:32:50 <DavidWHodgins> No problem if it's done sooner, to include it 20:33:16 <marja> for dnf to be default, we need dnfdrake in MCC 20:33:30 <Pharaoh_Atem> dnfdragora in MCC shouldn't be a problem 20:33:39 <Pharaoh_Atem> it'd probably be worked in the same way we do s-c-p 20:33:43 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: nice 20:33:52 <DavidWHodgins> marja: Thanks to the urpm shims, shouldn't be a problem. 20:34:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, the urpm shims are for CLI 20:34:20 <Pharaoh_Atem> I had no plans to make graphical shims, as those are largely the result of patching things away from using PackageKit 20:34:21 <Pharaoh_Atem> which works now 20:34:47 <Pharaoh_Atem> s-c-p and other things that use gurpmi or whatnot can use PackageKit now 20:35:06 <marja> :-) 20:35:07 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. Compared to manatools though, dnf requires a lot less changes. 20:35:14 <Pharaoh_Atem> Yep 20:35:24 <Pharaoh_Atem> DNF as default is achievable 20:36:02 <Pharaoh_Atem> and infrastructure side changes hopefully can be started now 20:36:14 <Pharaoh_Atem> we should aim to offer an amazing experience with Mageia 7 20:36:17 <Pharaoh_Atem> just as we did for Mageia 6 20:36:29 <marja> :-) 20:36:30 <DavidWHodgins> Given how few people are participating right now, we should vote on the mailing list. I'm in favour of oking dnf now 20:36:37 <Pharaoh_Atem> :) 20:36:55 <marja> DavidWHodgins: do you want to write a mail about that vote? 20:37:06 <DavidWHodgins> I will. 20:37:10 <marja> thx 20:37:32 <Pharaoh_Atem> this means that we can also start looking towards modernizing our build infra for Mageia 7 20:37:52 <Pharaoh_Atem> as a task in parallel to switching to DNF 20:37:53 <DavidWHodgins> For manatools, I'll suggest starting work on it now for Mageia 8, but with the plan to include it in Mageia 7, if it is ready in time. 20:38:01 <Pharaoh_Atem> I'm okay with that 20:38:15 <marja> +1 20:38:27 <DavidWHodgins> What needs to be done in the build infra for dnf? 20:38:35 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, nothing *needs* to be done 20:38:44 <Pharaoh_Atem> except mirrorbrain 20:38:51 <Pharaoh_Atem> that was supposed to be done for Mageia 6 20:38:56 <DavidWHodgins> That one I'm strongly in favour of. 20:39:11 <filip> +1 20:39:23 <marja> yep 20:39:35 <DavidWHodgins> Just need someone to take control of it, and co-ordinate getting it done. 20:39:46 <Pharaoh_Atem> from what tmb mentioned, it's nearly done 20:40:13 <marja> sorry, I have to leave 20:40:16 <marja> good night all 20:40:17 <Pharaoh_Atem> the rich langpacks thing was already approved at the last meeting, so that's fine 20:40:21 <Pharaoh_Atem> marja: bye 20:40:24 <DavidWHodgins> Thanks marja 20:41:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> we still have a ton more features to review :P 20:41:07 <Pharaoh_Atem> but I'm glad to have some clarity for the dnf feature 20:42:12 <DavidWHodgins> The remaining features that haven't been discussed at all yet may have to wait till the next council meeting. 20:42:29 <Pharaoh_Atem> yeah 20:42:31 <Pharaoh_Atem> when is that? 20:43:02 <DavidWHodgins> Unless there are objections, next Tuesday. 20:43:07 <filip> we should do weekly meetings to clear that up 20:43:16 <Pharaoh_Atem> weekly meetings are good 20:43:17 <DavidWHodgins> Yes 20:43:28 <Pharaoh_Atem> that's what it says on my calendar anyway 20:43:32 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's just never true :) 20:43:42 <DavidWHodgins> Normally we do have weekly meetings. Last week was skipped as too many people were busy. 20:44:28 <DavidWHodgins> I'll go ahead and close the meeting. Thanks everyone for coming 20:44:33 <Pharaoh_Atem> thanks all 20:44:41 <DavidWHodgins> #endmeeting