19:10:15 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:10:15 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Jun 20 19:10:15 2017 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:10:15 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:10:31 <ennael> ok so here is a meeting dedicated to Mageia 6
19:10:53 <DavidWHodgins> http://madb.mageia.org/tools/blockers
19:10:59 <[mbot`> [ Mageia App Db - Current Blockers ]
19:11:47 <DavidWHodgins> bug 19103 - I'm not sure if that's fixed or not. May require new iso images when it is.
19:12:07 <ennael> new kernel just synced on build host
19:12:34 <Pharaoh_Atem> tmb: \o
19:12:42 <tmb> hi all
19:12:58 <filip_> hi tmb. nice to see you
19:12:59 <DavidWHodgins> bug 19691 - Could be treated as an errata item, as the defualt is to have pulseaudio enabled
19:13:05 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa tmb
19:13:07 <wilcal> I'd like to add that as we go though this list we identify those bugs that can really be worked after release vs those that really hold up release
19:13:19 <stormi> hi
19:14:01 <DavidWHodgins> The main ones that can't be fixed after release either prevent usage of live isos in live mode, or prevent installing and then getting updates
19:14:17 <DavidWHodgins> Those are the only ones that should be considered blockers
19:14:34 <wilcal> I agree but there is also the frequency that they occur
19:14:44 <DavidWHodgins> Or really make Mageia look bad. :-)
19:15:01 <wilcal> Yup
19:15:14 <filip_> DavidWHodgins: is there such thing?
19:15:24 <wilcal> 21082 I put on here today as it occurs but does not prevent install
19:15:43 <wilcal> I'm thinking it can be fixed after release
19:16:08 <DavidWHodgins> For bug 21063, plasma getting black screen on boot, I think should be an errata item with "Don't use plasma on really old hardware"
19:16:16 <wilcal> There's also some ugly Plasma things that are probably upstream
19:16:23 <DavidWHodgins> filip_: Rare, but possible
19:16:48 <wilcal> yes but does it happen enough to prevent release
19:17:29 <filip_> does QA team try Neon also to see if Plasma bugs are upstream?
19:17:41 <wilcal> I did two installs today in prep for this meeting. One on real hardware and one Vbox
19:18:08 <DavidWHodgins> filip_: Not that I know of. I don't, and no one else has mentioned it.
19:18:27 <wilcal> both installs were 100% successful. the vbox exhibited 21082
19:18:50 <wilcal> occasionally
19:19:26 <DavidWHodgins> bug 21107 - change in rpm checksums from md5 to sha should not be a blocker. It just requires a lot of care when upgrading from Mageia 5
19:20:04 <wilcal> I agree David
19:20:24 <wilcal> Can you change the status of that one please
19:20:26 <marja> DavidWHodgins: the example was wrong, it also applies to normal packages
19:20:32 <marja> wilcal: I don't agree, yet
19:20:53 <marja> that bug isn't only about 32 + 64 bit devel packages
19:21:01 <marja> but also about other packages
19:21:30 <DavidWHodgins> Most of which have already been fixed, or we'd be seeing a lot more problems in our upgrade tests
19:22:10 <wilcal> IMO M5 -> M6 upgrade issues are hotly debated
19:22:13 <filip_> DavidWHodgins: Plasma 5.8 as User LTS Edition: https://files.kde.org/neon/images/neon-userltsedition/current/
19:22:14 <[mbot`> [ Index of /neon/images/neon-userltsedition/current ]
19:22:17 <marja> DavidWHodgins: ok, if you're sure upgrading is fine in general, then I'm ok with downgrading
19:22:25 <wilcal> Should it be an errata thing?
19:22:40 <marja> downgrading priority
19:22:51 <marja> wilcal: I wouldn't know how to woraround it
19:22:52 <wilcal> Caution on M5 KDE - M6 Plasma
19:23:00 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, with a caution that it may impact upgrading
19:23:05 <marja> wilcal: ah, that's a different one
19:23:18 <DavidWHodgins> wilcal: Any m5 to m6. It's not just plasma
19:23:25 <wilcal> A very complex system may not be successful
19:24:07 <wilcal> M5.1 Xfce up-to-date >
19:24:22 <wilcal> -> M6 Xfce is successful here
19:26:51 <DavidWHodgins> bug 21081 (black screen on live iso boot) is very annoying. Intermittent bugs are hard to reproduce, or confirm fixed when they are. I think that should be an errata item with the suggestion to reboot
19:27:41 <wilcal> I am agreeing with David
19:27:54 <marja> ok
19:28:04 <DavidWHodgins> Change it from blocker to for errata :-)
19:29:08 <DavidWHodgins> bug 19196 (buttons not visible), I haven't looked at. I haven't seen the problem myself in my tests
19:29:44 <DavidWHodgins> Same with hidden buttons in bug 20624
19:29:50 <wilcal> Not enough occurance to be a blocker IMO
19:29:52 <Pharaoh_Atem> I haven't observed either myself
19:30:03 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19691
19:30:05 <[mbot`> [ 19691 phonon defaults to Pulse backend even if PulseAudio is disabled ]
19:30:09 <lebarhon> I had the problem, it is fixed now
19:30:11 <wilcal> what you say on this one David?
19:30:37 <wilcal> 37 days without activity
19:30:39 <DavidWHodgins> pulseaudio is enabled by default, so that should not be a blocker
19:30:59 <Pharaoh_Atem> that can be fixed as errata
19:31:08 <Pharaoh_Atem> since we use Pulse by default
19:31:11 <wilcal> KInda the same thing I found with my copy vs link on Plasma desktop icons
19:31:29 <DavidWHodgins> It only affects installs where the user chooses to change the sound target
19:33:05 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20905
19:33:07 <[mbot`> [ 20905 Draklive: "Remove unneeded software" remove libreoffice ]
19:33:15 <wilcal> status???
19:33:16 <DavidWHodgins> Errata
19:33:40 <DavidWHodgins> In my opinion
19:34:12 <wilcal> It's been done I see
19:34:34 <filip_> we make  "Remove unneeded software" to accessible to newcomers
19:34:40 <DavidWHodgins> So change from blocker to in_errata
19:34:47 <DavidWHodgins> s /to/too/
19:34:57 <lebarhon> I agree with filip
19:35:04 <DavidWHodgins> I agree, it would be better to default to not removing
19:35:16 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21109
19:35:18 <[mbot`> [ 21109 repodata.old.* dirs in each repo dir need to be purged ]
19:35:20 <wilcal> and
19:35:24 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21110
19:35:26 <[mbot`> [ 21110 rpm-md repodata missing for most armv7hl repos ]
19:35:45 <Pharaoh_Atem> the former is technically not "release blocking" in the sense it hurts anyone
19:35:47 <wilcal> These do not prevent a clean install
19:35:53 <Pharaoh_Atem> the latter breaks arm stuff
19:36:09 <DavidWHodgins> I don't think either of those should be blockers. They don't affect install or usage on i586 or x86_64. arm is still experimental
19:36:19 <wilcal> Agreed
19:36:38 <wilcal> We're knock'em out David :-))
19:36:41 <DavidWHodgins> We don't have arm iso images
19:36:51 <Pharaoh_Atem> no, but we are supposed to have disk images for release
19:36:57 <filip_> unfortunate for arm ;)
19:37:03 <wilcal> Not gonna make it
19:37:33 <DavidWHodgins> While it would be nice it arm was working, not having it working shouldn't block the i586 and x86_64 release
19:37:44 <DavidWHodgins> The arm disk images could be released later
19:37:47 <Pharaoh_Atem> sure
19:37:51 <filip_> DavidWHodgins: indeed but we can mark it unsupported?
19:37:59 <Pharaoh_Atem> but we don't have a nice granularity like that in bugzilla :)
19:38:13 <DavidWHodgins> It's currently marked experimental where it is described
19:38:38 <DavidWHodgins> As far as I know, no one on the qa team has any arm hardware to test with
19:38:50 <Pharaoh_Atem> not even Raspberry Pi?
19:39:00 <DavidWHodgins> Not that I know of
19:39:32 <wilcal> I have 3 Pi's here, two the latest and one previous version
19:39:45 <Pharaoh_Atem> the Pi is the primary target of the ARM ports
19:39:51 <wilcal> I am ready when they are
19:40:00 <wilcal> I would expect so
19:40:39 <DavidWHodgins> Perhaps we could include in the release announcment that arm release is being delayed
19:41:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> sure
19:41:18 <filip_> that would be fair as arm as a feature is in the wiki for some time already
19:41:41 <wilcal> so take 21110 off the blocker list
19:42:42 <filip_> yeah. releasing  i586 and x86_64 should be our priority
19:43:02 <DavidWHodgins> Yes. We should have new tags for arm release blockers, seperate from normal release blockers
19:43:09 <wilcal> So all this cuts the list down considerably
19:43:28 <Pharaoh_Atem> we should have a concept of secondary arches
19:43:29 <filip_> stormi: any comments on BZ tags?
19:43:31 <Pharaoh_Atem> like Fedora does
19:43:49 <Pharaoh_Atem> secondary arches do not necessarily release the same time as primary arches
19:44:07 <Pharaoh_Atem> (though nowadays, in Fedora, they do, but they are still not release-gating)
19:44:26 <filip_> Pharaoh_Atem: are they equally supported?
19:44:37 <DavidWHodgins> Just out of curiosity, what's the main difference between armv5 and armv7?
19:44:37 <Pharaoh_Atem> as of Fedora 25, yes
19:44:57 <Pharaoh_Atem> DavidWHodgins: armv5tl is the base arm32 arch that all ARM hardware supports these days
19:45:14 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's a soft-float arch that is broadly compatible with various microcontrollers and whatnot
19:45:31 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's commonly used in things like secondary CPU chips for server IPMI, etc.
19:45:43 <Pharaoh_Atem> armv7hl is the most common arm32 arch used today
19:45:46 <DavidWHodgins> So similar to pre math copresser systems
19:45:50 <Pharaoh_Atem> yeah
19:45:57 <Pharaoh_Atem> but it's a full CPU and can do things
19:46:00 <DavidWHodgins> Yuck. :-)
19:46:16 <Pharaoh_Atem> armv5tl lacks hardware support for floating point math
19:46:29 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's done through emulation through fun tricks with bit shifting :D
19:46:42 <wilcal> gracious
19:46:47 <Pharaoh_Atem> armv7hl is a newer arch, and really the end of the line for 32-bit arm
19:47:00 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's the arch used in nearly all ARM single board computers made before 2016
19:47:09 <Pharaoh_Atem> (and after 2014)
19:47:14 <DavidWHodgins> So armv5 is 32 big and armv7 is 64 bit with math support?
19:47:21 <Pharaoh_Atem> no
19:47:25 <Pharaoh_Atem> no 64-bit in armv7
19:47:31 <Pharaoh_Atem> armv8 introduces 64-bit
19:47:41 <Pharaoh_Atem> that's coming for Mageia 7, I believe
19:47:50 <DavidWHodgins> So just the math support between v5 and v7
19:47:52 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's known as AArch64
19:48:01 <Pharaoh_Atem> there's also some other instructions that have been added
19:48:11 <Pharaoh_Atem> think of like how i386 -> i486 -> i586 -> i686
19:48:21 <DavidWHodgins> Ok. Gotcha. Thanks
19:49:28 <DavidWHodgins> For bug 18669, appdata for installers other then urpmi, what's happening?
19:49:41 <Pharaoh_Atem> really, there's only one thing that needs to happen
19:49:56 <Pharaoh_Atem> someone needs to run the appstream-builder to generate the metadata and append it
19:50:13 <Pharaoh_Atem> without this information, GNOME Software (the mandatory software manager+updater for GNOME) just doesn't work
19:50:36 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Can you arrange to get that done, or get another sysadmin to do it?
19:50:45 <Pharaoh_Atem> Plasma Discover, one of the PackageKit frontends for Plasma, needs it too
19:50:54 <DavidWHodgins> Pharaoh_Atem: Is the repodata on the iso images?
19:50:57 <Pharaoh_Atem> no
19:51:04 <Pharaoh_Atem> at least I don't think so?
19:51:10 <Pharaoh_Atem> I don't know how we generate install ISOs
19:51:15 <Pharaoh_Atem> but I don't think so, not for Mageia 6
19:51:18 <wilcal> generated after the install?
19:51:27 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's appended to the online repodata
19:51:37 <DavidWHodgins> If it doesn't affect the iso images, than it shouldn't be a release blocker
19:51:39 <Pharaoh_Atem> so it's part of the repodata fetched by PackageKit
19:52:02 <Pharaoh_Atem> DavidWHodgins: I made it one because reviewers have already been dinging us during the development releases about broken GNOME Software and Plasma Discover
19:52:13 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's a pretty broken out of the box experience
19:52:34 <ennael> repodata .
19:52:35 <ennael> ?
19:52:41 <Pharaoh_Atem> repository metadata
19:52:43 <tmb> no it isn't on isos as urpmi is still our supported default package manager wich does not need it
19:52:51 <DavidWHodgins> So it should be very high priority, but shouldn't be a blocker
19:53:08 <wilcal> fix after release?
19:53:24 <DavidWHodgins> fix asap, but not hold release due to it
19:53:26 <Pharaoh_Atem> I mean, building release ISOs has no particular requirement on appstream right now
19:53:43 <tmb> but I'll try to get to it after I fix up wiki
19:53:45 <wilcal> That's another one off the blocker list
19:53:50 <Pharaoh_Atem> tmb: thanks
19:54:01 <Pharaoh_Atem> if you need any assist on figuring out the appstream-builder stuff, please let me know
19:54:20 <wilcal> Is there anything here preventing us releasing the final final isos?
19:54:50 <Pharaoh_Atem> I don't think so
19:55:17 <DavidWHodgins> The new kernel has just been synced to the build directory. I think we should have one more set of iso images, which will be expected to be the release version
19:55:23 <wilcal> so lets do that
19:55:28 <wilcal> I again agree with David
19:55:36 <tmb> so... do we flip mageia-release switch ?
19:55:44 <wilcal> Hey!!!! We're pretty in sync today David :-))
19:55:48 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:55:48 <Pharaoh_Atem> if we're going to do that, mageia-repos needs to be flipped too
19:56:17 <wilcal> isos by mid next week or sooner?
19:56:17 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: I'd hold off on that till the images have gone through basic testing to ensure no problems creep in during iso building
19:56:28 <wilcal> agreed one more look see
19:56:53 <Pharaoh_Atem> it'll be nice to have a fresh Mageia 6 release to go to London with :D
19:57:09 <wilcal> What's your London Date?
19:57:17 <Pharaoh_Atem> I'm flying out this Saturday
19:57:32 <Pharaoh_Atem> I'll be in London for a week
19:57:35 <DavidWHodgins> I'm assuming that by "flipping release switch", that would put the iso images into the release directory rather than the cauldron directory
19:57:46 <tmb> Just one note... when we flip mageia-release switch we will stop freeze pushes also to not get newer packages in /release than what is on isos
19:58:01 <Pharaoh_Atem> DavidWHodgins: actually mageia-release and mageia-repos need to be rebuilt to %mkrel 1 and set %am_i_cauldron to 0
19:58:18 <Pharaoh_Atem> that changes the configuration for the two to declare as a release tree
19:58:26 <DavidWHodgins> Ah. Force new packages to updates rather than release dir. If that's all it does, then yes
19:58:35 <filip_> there's one thing not really a high priority but still important: currently there's no way to update/upload PDF and EPUB doc files which also includes install manual.
19:59:15 <filip_> https://www.mageia.org/doc/
19:59:16 <[mbot`> [ Mageia Documentation ]
19:59:30 <tmb> and then several drakx-installer* packages need to be rebuilt to pick up release status
19:59:51 <DavidWHodgins> tmb: Probably best to announce first on dev mailing list, and see if there are any last minute updates worth including
20:00:01 <wilcal> create the final final isos, give us till mid next week then flip the switch on like the 29th?
20:00:24 <wilcal> out the door by end of month
20:00:47 <DavidWHodgins> I think flip the switch as soon as the build repo is synced. That way any updates created while testing the iso images will be in the updates repo.
20:00:49 <tmb> wilcal, we need to flip the switch before building "final final" isos
20:00:51 <filip_> good that sounds nice
20:01:06 <wilcal> so one more review isos
20:01:07 <DavidWHodgins> Or just before starting the sync of the build repos
20:01:43 <tmb> filip_, what do you need
20:01:46 <Pharaoh_Atem> I think we should go ahead and flip it now
20:02:02 <wilcal> present isos are a little stale
20:02:06 <filip_> tmb: you did an marcom ftp access in the past
20:02:25 <DavidWHodgins> So "flip switch, sync repos, generate new iso images, test iso images for obvious build problems, and if ok release"
20:02:33 <ennael> I would go for building another set of isos before final one
20:02:48 <wilcal> i agree with ennael
20:04:01 <DavidWHodgins> I'm expecting this next set to be the final. What updates are we waiting for before final?
20:04:27 <tmb> filip_, I wonder... should we use git instead, or do you need ftp ?
20:04:32 <Pharaoh_Atem> DavidWHodgins: yep
20:04:34 <wilcal> I got to say that this little old Dell Laptop really loves M6 x86_64 Plasma big time
20:04:34 <ennael> in fact next set would be the one for last tests
20:04:43 <ennael> then final one is just mageia release update
20:05:02 <filip_> tmb: as long we can DL files it doesn't really matter
20:05:03 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, and copying the tested iso images to the release dir
20:05:26 <ennael> also do we have a proper left background for classical installer
20:05:36 <filip_> tmb: s/we/general public/
20:05:38 <tmb> filip_, I was thinking using git would give us revision control that ftp does not have
20:06:00 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Didn't notice. :-) I'll test again after the meeting to check
20:06:08 <filip_> tmb: but the space is in hundreds of MB
20:06:50 <DavidWHodgins> So can we agree with "flip switch, sync repos, generate new iso images, test iso images for obvious build problems, and if ok release"?
20:07:04 * Pharaoh_Atem gives a thumbs up
20:07:05 <wilcal> Agreed
20:07:11 <Schultz> I guess I should get the release announcement started then, its looking promising
20:07:20 <Pharaoh_Atem> I've also nearly got my DNF 2.0 blog ready
20:07:22 <wilcal> IT'S COMING TO AN END YIPPEEEE
20:07:35 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's almost exactly two years since I started working on DNF for Mageia
20:07:55 <DavidWHodgins> Assuming everything goes well, let's plan on confirming release in next weeks council meeting.
20:07:56 <wilcal> It's way better then M5.1
20:08:27 <Pharaoh_Atem> then we can focus on Mageia 7
20:08:30 <wilcal> By month end for sure
20:08:32 <Pharaoh_Atem> and how we'll change the world!
20:08:52 <filip_> tmb: if space is not an issue we already have atelier git space. so only git -> mirrors step is necessary I guess?
20:09:04 <DavidWHodgins> be right back
20:11:25 <tmb> filip_, We could try that for now. just let me know what git path needs to be exported to mirror tree
20:12:58 <filip_> tmb: so I just build somewhat future-proof git structure and email you privately?
20:13:12 <tmb> filip_, yes
20:14:09 <DavidWHodgins> back
20:14:30 <DavidWHodgins> Anything else to discuss?
20:14:32 <filip_> tmb: mga5 has currently 274 MB, mga4 242MB. mga6 will probably have even more.
20:14:54 <Pharaoh_Atem> filip_: what is this for?
20:14:58 <DavidWHodgins> mga4 is eol, so shouldn't that be removed?
20:15:12 <filip_> Pharaoh_Atem: PDF and EPUB doc files
20:15:15 <Pharaoh_Atem> ah
20:15:38 <filip_> DavidWHodgins: indeed. I guess we don't need to git it ;)
20:15:48 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: so when shall we rebuild new isos ?
20:15:50 <tmb> filip_, you only need to do mga6 at this point... the others are already on mirrors
20:15:53 <Pharaoh_Atem> keep in mind that with binary files, unless you have a lookaside or git-lfs, it'll make everything slow :(
20:15:58 <filip_> tmb: true
20:15:59 <Pharaoh_Atem> and huge
20:16:19 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: As soon as the switch is flipped to stop new packages being built in the release directories
20:16:48 <DavidWHodgins> And then any changes synced to the build repo
20:16:50 <Pharaoh_Atem> tmb, ennael: should I go ahead and commit mageia-repos switch flip?
20:17:04 <ennael> we need to check stage2 background
20:17:49 <DavidWHodgins> Checking now ...
20:18:15 <ennael> yep it's rc one
20:18:36 <DavidWHodgins> Yep.  That needs to be fixed before flipping switch
20:19:13 <ennael> looking for a proper image but I think I don't have it here
20:23:01 <Schultz> Which is the image, I should have it somewhere
20:24:05 <ennael> that would be great
20:24:52 <Schultz> Is it the tall thin image on the left of the installer?
20:25:01 <DavidWHodgins> Schultz: Yes
20:25:17 <DavidWHodgins> It currently has Mageia 6 rc
20:25:27 <DavidWHodgins> The rc needs to be removed
20:26:14 <marja> DavidWHodgins: so we have those 4 release blockers left, correct? http://madb.mageia.org/tools/blockers   or did I remove too many or too few?
20:26:19 <Schultz> Ok, I have the gimp file for mga5, will make one for 6 now
20:26:20 <[mbot`> [ Mageia App Db - Current Blockers ]
20:27:15 <wilcal> Big change from when we started today
20:27:22 <DavidWHodgins> Argh. Yes. I'm getting too impatient.
20:27:34 <wilcal> Good job everyone
20:27:57 <wilcal> This thing should be out the door by end of month
20:28:12 <DavidWHodgins> So we need those 4 fixed, and then start with flipping the switch etc.
20:28:36 <wilcal> where will the new isos for review land
20:29:09 <ennael> Schultz: can you push it in git repository ?
20:29:11 <filip_> should we conclude the meeting?
20:29:15 <wilcal> yes
20:29:46 <wilcal> david tell us/qc where these final isos for review are
20:29:49 <Schultz> ennael: no, I have svn access, no git, no idea why
20:31:01 <Schultz> ennael: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B35tx4Q9SNELdG9abXhVQ3JjNEE/view?usp=sharing
20:31:02 <[mbot`> [ left-background.png - Google Drive ]
20:31:08 <Schultz> That look ok?
20:31:53 <ennael> yep
20:31:59 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: Drop the rc from the directory and file names for next iso images?
20:32:47 <DavidWHodgins> Or one more rc iso to when those 4 blocker bugs fixed?
20:34:03 <Schultz> ennael: great, would be nice to get all of these files onto the artwork git, no idea how many duplicates there are, but I know that myself and Remi keep distinct versions of pretty much everything. So if there is someone with git foo that can work out whats broken it would be great
20:34:30 <ennael> its in drakx repository
20:35:54 <Schultz> the .xcf as well?
20:36:45 <marja> Schultz: is there a bug report about git access not working for you?
20:37:24 <Schultz> marja: nope, always got Remi to push everything and the sysadmins had bigger fish to fry. Will check it again and file if needed
20:37:54 <marja> Schultz: thanks... the amount of sysadmins should increase rapidly :-)
20:38:19 <Schultz> marja, well, as long as I'm not one of them thats all great :)
20:38:32 <marja> lol
20:39:24 <Schultz> if they want me to actually build the hardware, that might work, but no promises
20:39:41 <marja> :-)
20:40:03 <DavidWHodgins> So for Mageia 6, we have 4 blocker bugs. When those are fixed, flip the relase switch, sync repos, build iso images (with correct image), test, and if ok release
20:40:13 <DavidWHodgins> Shall we close the meeting?
20:40:17 <wilcal> Please
20:40:23 <ennael> ok
20:40:43 <wilcal> bye all
20:40:52 <ennael> #endmeeting