19:12:46 <Akien> #startmeeting
19:12:46 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Apr  4 19:12:46 2017 UTC.  The chair is Akien. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:12:46 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:12:50 <Akien> #chair ennael stormi
19:12:50 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: Akien ennael stormi
19:13:16 <Akien> Welcome everyone \o
19:13:20 <stormi> hi
19:13:20 <ennael> hi there
19:13:23 <Augier> Hi
19:13:29 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa
19:13:35 <Akien> #topic Mageia 6 RC: progress on blockers
19:13:47 <Akien> Let's start with some good news before the heated topic ;)
19:13:59 <Schultz> Morning everyone
19:14:05 <Akien> http://madb.mageia.org/tools/blockers
19:14:12 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Current Blockers ]
19:14:15 <Akien> Total: 16.
19:14:15 <Akien> In the last two weeks: 5 created and 2 promoted. 7 closed and 0 demoted.
19:14:59 <Akien> The progress has been pretty good lately, with many blockers fixed. Among the 5 created, there were 3 with patchsets from Martin which I just pushed and released as drakx 17.77 and draklive-install 2.11, so they should be fixed too
19:15:02 <filip> nice work everybody
19:15:30 <DavidWHodgins> It's coming together nicely, though there is more work to do.
19:15:42 <Schultz> Yep, nice to see the progress is quick, would hate for this to turn into another sta2
19:15:58 <wilcal> Testing today of pretest LiveDVD's looks very good
19:16:04 <wilcal> Vbox clients that is
19:16:18 <wilcal> Just about finished with all my testing
19:16:33 <ennael> was just finalizing rebuild
19:16:38 <ennael> isos landed in pretesting
19:16:40 <wilcal> The little green boxes windows is still there
19:16:43 <ennael> I'm mailning qa
19:16:56 <Akien> ennael: including my new drakxtools?
19:17:17 <Akien> (pushed 30min ago)
19:17:21 <wilcal> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20368
19:17:23 <[mbot> [ Bug 20368 Net installation of Mageia 6 sta2 finished with a very small and double screen. ]
19:17:25 <wilcal> still a problem
19:17:28 <ennael> Sun Apr 2 23:27:20 CEST 2017
19:17:34 <ennael> don't think so
19:18:14 <Akien> ennael: Timing is bad as you just rebuilt them, but it would be good to get the new drakxtools/drakx-installer-stage2 on those ISOs, as they should fix 4 blockers
19:18:53 <LpSolit> (bonus: the clock is back in drakclock)
19:19:24 <ennael> ok I let you managing the meeting then doing it now
19:19:34 <Akien> Ok
19:19:49 <Akien> Then we have a few visual installer bugs which still need fixed: 19196, 20368, 20624
19:20:25 <Akien> I've reviewed all blockers today and asked some questions, so hopefully we should be seeing some more progress.
19:20:36 <Akien> I've also listed them on the dev ML with some explanations.
19:20:42 <LpSolit> 19196 has a patch
19:20:57 <Akien> Yeah, though untested I think
19:21:14 <Akien> The glibc 'script' failed error is a bad one, I'm not sure yet how it can be debugged further
19:22:28 <Akien> But yeah, all in all it's looking pretty good. The next set of ISOs that Anne is preparing should hopefully be pretty satisfying, the glibc and visual glitches aside.
19:23:17 <LpSolit> we all agree that 6 RC should let you upgrade from 5 to 6 without errors?
19:23:31 <Akien> There's a set of bad nvidia issues too, some of which might not be release_blockers yet but should likely be promoted
19:23:33 <Schultz> I need to did out the installer artwork, it was missed in the update unless someone has done that since I last did an install a few days back
19:23:39 <Akien> Yes, upgrades should work with 6 RC.
19:24:05 <Akien> Schultz: to s/sta2/rc/ ?
19:24:52 <Schultz> Akien: Nope, the backgrounds on the promotional images that advertise Mageia still have the Mga5 background
19:25:10 <Akien> Ah yeah, I haven't redone those yet
19:25:36 <Schultz> Thats actually a general thing we should do before release as that image is still on facebook and twitter, but thats far more trivial
19:25:40 <Akien> If you can do it that's great, we'll just have to check that you have the xcf that I used last time
19:26:12 <Akien> Anything else on that topic?
19:26:25 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else on that here.
19:26:43 <Augier> I have a few nasty glitches on Mga5 with nVidia
19:27:01 <Augier> Might be worth see if they appear on Mga 6 too
19:27:11 <Akien> Then you should test the ISOs :)
19:27:17 <Augier> Yessir
19:27:34 <Akien> #topic Infra upgrade/migration: champagne on mga4, alamut on mga1 (!)
19:28:02 * Augier feels trolls are all hears...
19:28:10 <Akien> So, as DavidWHodgins mentioned on the council@ ML, we have two servers still running resp. mga4 and mga1
19:28:21 <Akien> It wasn't a hidden fact and it's no news to me, but it might be to some of you :)
19:28:27 <DavidWHodgins> I know I've embarrassed mageia by putting this public on the council mailing list, but I think that's the best way to get this fixed asap!
19:28:45 <DavidWHodgins> It was news to me.
19:29:37 <Akien> I don't know if we have sysadmins around to discuss it, without them there isn't much input to give.
19:29:41 <filip> DavidWHodgins: I think you did the right thing. you couldn't knew how that would spread
19:29:46 <Akien> Of course upgrading those servers is planned :)
19:29:47 <DavidWHodgins> For lurkers, this wasn't noticed due to some hack. It was noticed while troubleshooting one of our name servers not being updated properly
19:29:55 <wilcal> Time frame?
19:30:02 <papoteur> It is to notice that some updates are applied specifically to these servers.
19:30:14 <Akien> The idea is to move the services from those machines to other mga5 servers, so that they can then be reinstalled with mga5.
19:30:34 <DavidWHodgins> How soon can that be done?
19:30:34 <Augier> DavidWHodgins: There will always be haters to push buttons...
19:30:42 <wilcal> Time Frame :-)
19:30:44 <filip> papoteur: yeah I remembered that in the past tmb wrote that
19:30:53 <Akien> Well I can't give a time frame for sysadmins, I'm not the one signing their payroll
19:31:00 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
19:31:02 <Akien> The upgrades have been planned for at least a year
19:31:10 <Akien> The bad press might help speed things up :)
19:31:30 <wilcal> Somebody gets a trip to Marseille, right?
19:31:33 <Akien> So, we'll see.
19:31:37 <DavidWHodgins> In my opinion, that should have a higher priority than getting Mageia 6 released.
19:31:41 <Akien> Well that can be done remotely.
19:32:09 <Augier> It's buzzing me, though. Don't the server have centralized report tools?
19:32:22 <Akien> Well let's not be overly dramatic, I think our sysadmins know what they're doing.
19:32:44 <DavidWHodgins> While it doesn't impact (as far as I can see) the package building or signing process, it does affect a number of high priority servers such as bugzilla
19:32:48 <Akien> Augier: They have, and as I said it's not something we discovered by chance, sysadmins know what machines run what OS :)
19:32:50 <Schultz> Debating how bad the impact of either our or a mirrors servers being out of date shouldn't really be the point, more that we want to get ours up to where they should be and getting whats needed for that in place
19:33:10 <DavidWHodgins> Augier: Yes. http://xymon.mageia.org
19:33:11 <[mbot> [ red : Xymon - Status @ Tue Apr 04 21:32:14 2017 ]
19:34:24 <LpSolit> wow, the page looks so... 1995 :(
19:34:34 <Akien> Anyway, nothing much to say from my side other than that it's a priority topic. Like it has been a priority topic to upgrade our Mediawiki, our Bugzilla, install Mirrorbrain, etc.
19:34:41 <DavidWHodgins> Do we need someone to go to Marseille and add drives?
19:34:50 <Akien> Nope.
19:35:29 <Akien> We need sysadmins to sit down together a week-end and do the work. And it's not easy to get sysadmins together for a week-end lately :)
19:35:31 <Schultz> I guess we need sysadmin here to really sort this, don't think any are around
19:35:35 <DavidWHodgins> alamut is shown 97% used for svn file system
19:36:20 <filip> guys, we're bikesheding ;)
19:36:26 <Akien> Anyway, there's no need to speculate or organise a trip for sysadmins without asking them their opinion, so I don't think there's much more to say here.
19:36:41 <Akien> To be further discussed on the sysadmin ML.
19:37:41 <Akien> #topic ARMv5 and ARMv7 arches: what level of support for Mageia 6?
19:37:42 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed. We need more info from sysadmins
19:37:55 <Akien> That topic is based on https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17072
19:37:58 <[mbot> [ Bug 17072 build system broken in new ways by ARM addition ]
19:37:59 <Akien> (last comments)
19:38:27 <Akien> Recently Cauldron has been relatively quiet, since the version freeze prevents packagers from pushing tons of updates at once
19:38:47 <Akien> Once Mageia 6 is released and Cauldron reopens, I expect a lot more traffic on our buildsystem, and our ARM nodes, though numerous, are very slow
19:39:06 <Akien> We've already discussed the possibility of renting more powerful ones, but according to pterjan that doesn't really exist :/
19:39:34 <filip> what about more tu use parallel build?
19:39:44 <Akien> The main issue would be that if Cauldron is overloaded with a backlog of arm builds, then it would be hard to build update candidates for mga6 as they would have to wait for the arm builds to finish
19:40:01 <Akien> A partial solution would be to reserve some arm nodes only for mga6 builds, to avoid this
19:40:34 <Akien> Still, arm builds per se are slow, so it still means that when a firefox build is pushed to core/updates_testing, it may take 24h until the armv5tl package is built
19:40:54 <Schultz> is it not possible to set a different priority in the build queue? Updates come first?
19:40:57 <Akien> So I wonder to what extent should we support ARM arches in our updates testing?
19:41:37 <Akien> I also don't expect the QA team to buy ARM devices to be able to test all updates on those arches
19:41:45 <Schultz> How much actual testing can be done for the arm builds would probably be a better question
19:41:54 <DavidWHodgins> Not much.
19:42:02 <Schultz> No point waiting on a build there if no one is going to test it
19:42:15 <DavidWHodgins> Agreed
19:42:35 <Akien> Well hopefully the arm platforms will get some users :)
19:42:46 <Akien> But yeah, I think they should not be blocking for updates.
19:43:03 <Akien> Ideally, if an update candidate was tested on x86 before the arm builds are ready, and validated, it should be pushed.
19:43:15 <Schultz> I think we can release a statement to the effect that we intend to support arm to the best of our ability, but updates might be slower and with limited testing from the lack of hardware - then a call for users to help
19:43:18 <DavidWHodgins> We'll have to encourage them to join qa, but I agree we can not block i586 and x86_64 updates while waiting for arm tests.
19:43:35 <wilcal> I was understanding that out of this arm effort would be a Mageia on Rasp Pi?
19:43:46 <Akien> That brings the question of how to make sure that the arm builds finally landing in core/updates_testing would be rerouted to core/updates if the advisory was released
19:44:16 <Schultz> How many times is there as issue that is arch specific? Surely in most cases a successful test on i586 and x64 would cover arm too
19:44:24 <DavidWHodgins> We may have to use seperate bug reports for arm updates
19:44:56 <Akien> I'd prefer not to have to :/
19:45:03 <DavidWHodgins> Schultz: That's why we test on both i586 and x86_64. While relatively rare, problems on one arch only do happen.
19:45:40 <DavidWHodgins> Especially on low level packages such as the kernel
19:45:51 <Akien> And problems on arm only might likely be more frequent as it's much more different to x86 and i586 and x86_64 are to each other.
19:46:08 <Akien> But I think it would be fine if we officially only "lazily" support our arm platforms
19:46:09 <DavidWHodgins> They also tend to almost always be high priority security updates
19:46:11 <Schultz> DavidWHodgins: Ok, I wonder then how often there would be a bug that would be present on arm but not on i586 and x64
19:46:20 <Akien> So updates and not guaranteed tested, but we would of course try to fix regressions.
19:46:43 <Schultz> Hmm quite, I guess that that is the big exception to this, and sadly big doesn't really cut it
19:46:45 <Akien> (if someone notices them :D)
19:46:55 <DavidWHodgins> Schultz: No idea. I've never tried an arm install, due to lack of hardware.
19:48:08 <wilcal> I have 2 Raspberry Pi's here and they do quite well for Multimedia applications
19:48:14 <Schultz> Yeah that sounds like a good stance to take, we support it but can't guarantee that the updates will be fast and always working - maybe add an early adopter tag somewhere
19:49:06 <DavidWHodgins> As arm support is new, we will still have to develop procedures for updates, and ensure they do not block i586 and x86_64 updates.
19:49:25 <Akien> Agreed.
19:50:01 <DavidWHodgins> That can be done post Mageia 6 release, but will have to be done very quickly.
19:50:55 <DavidWHodgins> Changes will be required in bugzilla, mgaadv, push procedures, etc.
19:51:07 <Schultz> I'll try and get hold of some arm hardware soon, been on my list for ages, will try and help with tests if I can get around to getting something together
19:51:21 <filip> arm suport albeit semiofficial might bring some contributors and definitelly users (but challenges as well)
19:53:33 <Akien> I don't have much more to add on this topic, I think we'll need a joint sysadmin + QA discussion to know what policy we want and what can be done technically
19:54:19 <Akien> #topic Anything else?
19:54:24 <Akien> Are there other topics you'd like to discuss?
19:54:28 <filip> what about sposnoring pies to QA?
19:54:41 <Akien> and coffee to devs? :D
19:54:45 <wilcal> :-) I can always find a use for a Pi around here
19:54:55 <DavidWHodgins> Just wanted to the above for lurkers, the name servers I was looking at are not on those servers running old versions.
19:54:58 <Schultz> We could do with a blog to put out in a day or so
19:54:59 <Augier> And beer to packagers ? :D
19:55:28 <wilcal> FWIW Pi hardware looks to be stable until around 2019
19:55:51 <Schultz> Anyone got any ideas or should I be creative?
19:56:03 <filip> I don't mind either coffee nor beer for *active* devs and packagers ;)
19:56:17 <DavidWHodgins> sysadmins too. :-)
19:56:20 * Augier is active
19:56:23 <Akien> filip: if some QA members are interested (or maybe some devs too), that could be interesting yeah. I wouldn't force it on the existing QA team to have to actively test the arm builds though, they have plenty on their plates without those arches :)
19:56:33 <filip> sysadmins needs something stronger ;)
19:56:39 <DavidWHodgins> lol
19:56:43 <wilcal> I would test on Pi :-))
19:57:01 <Akien> Schultz: Good point, we don't have any pending draft anymore? :)
19:57:19 <Akien> Schultz: That means I need to actually write my drafts hehe
19:57:23 <filip> any response from framapad?
19:57:25 <Schultz> Nope, lots of titles though
19:57:26 <DavidWHodgins> We'd need recommendations about what arm hardware to buy
19:57:43 <DavidWHodgins> I haven't kept up-to-date on what's available.
19:57:58 <Akien> Yeah. To be honest I'm not even sure Mageia can be easily installed yet :/
19:58:14 <Akien> We need pterjan and blino to write proper instructions on how to get Mageia on an ARM board
19:58:26 <filip> yeah I miss a wiki or something about that
19:59:33 <filip> If they start wiki just for their own hardware at least some will try to expand the info
19:59:46 <Akien> yeah
20:01:22 <Akien> Shall we wrap this up?
20:01:31 <DavidWHodgins> Yes
20:01:33 <wilcal> Nothing more from me
20:01:33 <Akien> A short meeting is a good sign, it means the distro is behaving :D
20:01:47 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:01:50 <wilcal> Go Go M6
20:02:14 <filip> +1
20:02:18 <Akien> Thanks everyone for attending :)
20:02:19 <Akien> #endmeeting