19:15:18 <ennael> #startmeeting
19:15:18 <Inigo_Montoya`> Meeting started Tue Mar 28 19:15:18 2017 UTC.  The chair is ennael. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:15:18 <Inigo_Montoya`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:15:25 <ennael> #chair stormi
19:15:25 <Inigo_Montoya`> Current chairs: ennael stormi
19:15:37 <ennael> hi all
19:16:15 <Schultz> Hey
19:16:44 <ennael> #topic communication
19:17:05 <ennael> ok so the donation of 250€ to Framasoft is done
19:17:25 <marja> nice
19:17:39 <Latte> thanks
19:17:55 <ennael> I guess there is a blog post in progress
19:17:56 <Schultz> Thanks, I'll publish the blog to go with it then
19:18:21 <ennael> ok
19:18:34 <stormi> Schultz: maybe we could publish the JDLL post just before. The other way around would have the JDLL post mask the more important framasoft one.
19:18:34 <ennael> what about coming events?
19:19:03 <Latte> btw, donation. ennael can you please send me account details: I can transfer the "donations" for the USB-sticks at CLT
19:19:12 <Schultz> stormi: go for it, I want to read over the donation one again, so I might not get it out until tomorrow
19:19:40 <ennael> Latte: yep just give me your mail address
19:19:45 <Schultz> If anyone else is interested, https://mypads.framapad.org/mypads/?/mypads/group/mageia-atelier-v7b2m7c1/pad/view/draft-framasoft-donation-un3y174k
19:19:46 <[mbot> [ MyPads ]
19:20:14 <Latte> marc.lattemann@web.de
19:21:03 <ennael> thanks
19:23:12 <ennael> Latte: in your mailbox
19:23:42 <Latte> thx ennael
19:24:48 <ennael> ok next topic then
19:24:55 <ennael> #topic Mageia 6 release
19:25:07 <ennael> so we are in the middle of RC isos test
19:25:12 <ennael> anybody from QA team.
19:25:14 <ennael> ?
19:27:11 <papoteur> tmb: DavesNotHereMan ?
19:27:30 <DavidWHodgins> Yep
19:28:00 <DavidWHodgins> The booting from usb in uefi mode needs to be sorted out
19:29:50 <tmb> is the grub2 menu entry updated to match iso label ?
19:31:08 <ennael> I'm on rabbot checking it
19:31:09 <DavidWHodgins> Trying to find the bug report. I've only been testing in bios firmware mode which works.
19:31:50 <tmb> nope, grub.cfg references sta2
19:38:33 <DavidWHodgins> There are also still http://madb.mageia.org/tools/blockers
19:38:39 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Current Blockers ]
19:39:29 * marja forgot to add some upgrade conflicts to the blockers
19:40:36 <ennael> can you add it?
19:40:46 <ennael> would be nice if we can fix all of them for rc
19:40:54 <marja> not on this machine...
19:41:25 <marja> ennael: I'll add them tomorrow
19:42:01 <ennael> thanks
19:43:56 <papoteur> Are they all on the good way?
19:44:42 <ennael> I'm rebuilding new rc isos including proper EFI
19:46:52 <tmb> ennael, did you sync repo to get latest kernel and images ?
19:47:10 <ennael> nope doing it now after mailing isobuild
19:47:56 <ennael> in progress
19:48:14 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: isos will land in pretesting
19:48:21 <DavidWHodgins> Ok
19:49:30 <ennael> anything else on rc ?
19:49:44 <DavidWHodgins> Not here
19:49:55 <tmb> one thing...
19:50:01 <Pharaoh_Atem> tmb: ?
19:50:56 <Pharaoh_Atem> oh, btw, did you manage to make some time for https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18669 ?
19:50:58 <[mbot> [ Bug 18669 Generate and provide AppStream repodata for GNOME Software and Plasma Discover ]
19:51:14 <tmb> should we include gnome 3.24 on rcs ?
19:51:19 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's rather necessary for our two headline DEs to function...
19:51:29 <Pharaoh_Atem> for some of its functionality
19:53:29 <ennael> tmb: do we have people to work on it ?
19:54:25 <tmb> ennael, it's already in testing and those that have tested it (me included) has not had any issues with it
19:55:36 <ennael> well then I guess we could push it now
19:55:41 <ennael> and include it in isos
19:57:17 <tmb> Pharaoh_Atem, unfortunately I havent done much sysadm work lately due to health issues... I will try this weekend to get it going...
19:57:40 <ennael> :(
19:58:20 <Pharaoh_Atem> tmb: well, I'll be around, so feel free to chat me up and I can help as I can
19:59:47 <ennael> tmb: can you move the packages or shall I ask neoclust ?
20:00:43 <tmb> ennael, please ask neoclust
20:00:52 <ennael> ok
20:00:54 <ennael> will do
20:01:02 <ennael> anything else on rc?
20:01:26 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here
20:01:42 <ennael> ok
20:01:54 <ennael> #topic manatools in isos
20:02:08 <ennael> ok so we were asked to add this topic for tonight's meeting
20:02:43 <ennael> do we have people about it around?
20:03:14 <DavidWHodgins> I can see having them available on the classical iso images, provided room is available. I don't think they should be on the live iso images as it would be confusing to have both drak* and mana* tools in the menus
20:03:45 <Schultz> Seemed it was mainly coming from Martin
20:04:06 <Schultz> Neoclust gave his opinion for the Plasma Live too
20:04:18 <ennael> Akien told me he wanted to work on desktop files
20:04:20 <papoteur> DavidWHodgins: it is proposed by Akien to pack them to have ncurses version. Thus no new entries in menus.
20:04:24 <ennael> to avoid confiusion in menus
20:04:35 <papoteur> ennael: ;)
20:04:50 <DavidWHodgins> If that can be done very quickly, ok
20:05:07 <stormi> I think he even already did it, isn't it what he said in recent messages, yesterday?
20:05:16 <stormi> He split the desktop files in a separate package
20:05:30 <stormi> So that we can provide the manatools package without the GUI
20:05:37 <stormi> and without desktop entries
20:05:51 <tmb> yeah, add the ncurses version on all isos for now, and we'll see what to do with the rest... it's a classic chicken/egg problem... how do we expose new tools without installing them by default...
20:06:43 <tmb> I wonder if mageiawelcome could have a sort of "WIP" list for people to check whats coming....
20:06:51 <DavidWHodgins> blog etc. Having them installed by default is fine for completly new tools. Not for ones that duplicate existing functionality.
20:06:54 <stormi> The plan for Mageia 7 is / should be to select a few of them, polish them and introduce them as replacements for equivalent drakxtools, especially if better
20:07:00 <stormi> And also blog
20:07:25 <tmb> s/WIP/Preview/
20:07:41 <stormi> Yeah, though MageiaWelcome already has too much stuff, people get lost :)
20:07:42 <DavidWHodgins> I think they should be available on Mageia 6, become default on Mageia 7, if ready.
20:08:10 <stormi> Maybe a preview section in MCC?
20:09:02 <tmb> that could be one option
20:09:10 <DavidWHodgins> We could add it as a suggests in a mcc update after release, to get wider reviews etc.
20:09:23 <stormi> All in all, this is stuff for (early) Mageia 7 development. I think the Mageia 6 case regarding manatools reached a consensus, more or less
20:09:43 <DavidWHodgins> That's my opinion
20:09:46 <stormi> ncurses, no menu entries, except maybe for tools without equivalents
20:10:22 <stormi> And we should probably install them by default in this manner on classical installs too?
20:10:26 <DavidWHodgins> We still have to be careful about bug 11446
20:10:46 <tmb> stormi, yeah, lets go with that for now... hopefully we can get mga6 out soon-ish
20:10:54 <papoteur> I think that a submenu System/Manatools would be acceptable and more visible.
20:11:36 <papoteur> and not confusing
20:11:56 <Pharaoh_Atem> it doesn't work for all DEs though
20:12:03 <stormi> papoteur: it would be confusing. Who understands what the difference between manatools and MCC is?
20:12:04 <tmb> papoteur, that would work for plasma but not for gnome
20:12:18 <papoteur> But I think that anaselli himself didnot agree
20:12:22 <stormi> As a standard user, a "Manatools" menu says nothing to e
20:12:27 <stormi> me
20:12:45 <stormi> I think we need to push them early to cauldron users first
20:12:48 <stormi> for mga7
20:12:52 <stormi> fix what needs fixing
20:12:59 <Pharaoh_Atem> we should have had a stronger messaging about manatools to begin with
20:12:59 <stormi> and release to everybody in mga7
20:13:14 <tmb> yeah, go with the ncurses now and we go from there
20:13:22 <papoteur> OK
20:13:28 <Pharaoh_Atem> it's been very poorly communicated that we're actually attempting to make better versions of mcc
20:13:35 <stormi> In my opinion the term manatools should not necessarily be known from the public
20:13:43 <stormi> We can replace parts of MCC progressively
20:13:49 <stormi> without calling that different names
20:14:17 <stormi> There's no need from user point of view to get a different set of tools in parallell
20:14:37 <papoteur> stormi: I don't agree. It's new tools, we should commmunicate on that.
20:14:58 <stormi> we can communicate about each new tools when shipped
20:15:24 <papoteur> The new name is part of the communication.
20:15:28 <stormi> but there's no chance that we can switch from drakxtools to manatools in less than a few releases
20:15:59 <stormi> the new name being part of the communication is not something that's been decided from what I know
20:16:21 <stormi> maybe it is, but maybe it's not
20:16:36 <stormi> What's important is what users get
20:16:59 <stormi> And also to keep MCC as a strong asset whatever the underlying tools are
20:17:18 <stormi> There's only one Mageia, with one control center, what's behind does not matter
20:17:25 <stormi> at least that's my opinion
20:18:14 * stormi killed everybody
20:18:23 <ennael> looks so :)
20:18:48 <DavidWHodgins> :-)
20:18:52 <Latte> makes sense to me
20:18:58 <stormi> manatools is a project, projects need names to gather developers, true, but let's not apply this blindly to what we give to users
20:19:06 <stormi> anyway we can discuss that further later
20:19:15 <stormi> we everyone involved
20:19:18 <stormi> with*
20:19:30 <Latte> the mcc is one of the "old" tools known
20:20:02 <stormi> not a tool, a set of tools, it's a portal actually
20:20:24 <Latte> yes, exactly
20:20:41 <tmb> yeah, so stick ncurses on isos like we do for dnf adn then time will tell if we can/will/... replace current tools
20:21:13 <Latte> I mean the name "MCC" is known for Mageia, and the anchestors respectivly
20:21:23 <stormi> we probably will progressively because the new tools are easier to maintain and evolve from what I understan
20:21:31 <stormi> Latte: indeed, it's a strong asset
20:21:31 <tmb> *and*
20:22:02 <Pharaoh_Atem> well, the replacing will all happen in mga7 anyway...
20:22:12 <tmb> well, do we have more developers on manatools ? or are we just switching one developer for another...
20:22:31 <ennael> we also have the installer part to manage
20:22:43 <ennael> I gues that could be an entire meeting
20:22:43 <stormi> tmb: ennael: those questions will have to adressed indeed
20:22:46 <Pharaoh_Atem> the perl manatools has one active developer currently
20:22:54 <Pharaoh_Atem> the python manatools (currently dnfdragora) has four
20:23:26 <Pharaoh_Atem> anaselli has been super-demotivated to work on perl manatools because of recent talk lately
20:23:42 <Pharaoh_Atem> but we've got Mageians and Fedorans contributing to dnfdragora development
20:25:23 <Pharaoh_Atem> there's also some interest from a couple of OpenMandriva guys in manatools
20:25:36 <Pharaoh_Atem> though again, currently dnfdragora is the big one they're interested in
20:25:39 <papoteur> We have tv and LpSolit who works on legacy MCC
20:25:50 <stormi> and martin on installer
20:25:58 <stormi> which is related
20:26:34 <Pharaoh_Atem> anaselli and AL13N work on perl manatools currently, so that's two people, I guess
20:27:46 <papoteur> One problem is that the direction is not clear. Does "Mageia" want these new tools?
20:27:47 <stormi> The way I see it, manatools are not likely to replace the whole drakxtools quickly, and I'm not even sure that's wanted. We need to make a few gems to give users real added value, and those will attract developers probably. Then from there we can see how to go further.
20:28:02 <stormi> I want anything that's better for users.
20:28:14 <Pharaoh_Atem> stormi: we have a chicken and egg problem, though
20:28:19 <stormi> But there's currently a too monolithic view of manatools
20:28:33 <stormi> and a binary view of drakxtools vs manatools too
20:28:42 <Pharaoh_Atem> and for the most part, both drakxtools and manatools are *not* modular
20:29:04 <Pharaoh_Atem> dnfdragora is an exception that proves the rule about this
20:29:16 <Pharaoh_Atem> both are architected as a unified framework
20:30:13 <stormi> I think we should stop talking about this for today, we're getting out of the council meeting schedule
20:30:46 <tmb> yeah...
20:31:23 <ennael> ok let's end this meeting then
20:31:33 <ennael> I've asked neoclust to move gnome packages in core
20:31:45 <ennael> I'll rebuild isos when it's done
20:32:10 <DavidWHodgins> I'll be on irc. Let me know when it's done
20:32:19 <tmb> ok
20:32:21 <ennael> yep
20:32:34 <ennael> thanks for attending tonight
20:33:08 <ennael> #enedmeeting
20:33:12 <Schultz> Night everyone
20:33:13 <ennael> oups
20:33:14 <Latte> thanks all
20:33:15 <ennael> #endmeeting