20:09:10 <Akien> #startmeeting 20:09:10 <Inigo_Montoya> Meeting started Tue Jan 17 20:09:10 2017 UTC. The chair is Akien. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:09:10 <Inigo_Montoya> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:09:14 <Akien> #chair ennael stormi 20:09:14 <Inigo_Montoya> Current chairs: Akien ennael stormi 20:09:25 <Akien> Hello everybody :) 20:09:38 <DavidWHodgins> HiYa 20:09:44 * ennael thought we were monday... 20:09:47 <ennael> hi all 20:09:52 <Akien> :D 20:10:09 <Akien> #topic Mageia 6 sta2 20:10:30 <Akien> Looks like we have wilcal and DavidWHodgins there: what's the current state of the ISOs QA-wise? 20:10:33 <DavidWHodgins> We can't release sta2 till the partitioning bug is fixed, in my opinion 20:10:43 * marja agrees 20:10:45 <Akien> I agree, it sounds pretty bad. 20:10:49 <DavidWHodgins> All other bugs can wait till sta3 20:11:05 <stormi> can you tell us again what the bug is and who's likely to encounter it? 20:11:19 <Akien> #info http://madb.mageia.org/tools/blockers 20:11:31 <[mbot> [ Mageia App Db - Current Blockers ] 20:11:34 <DavidWHodgins> Creating new partitions can cause partition table corruption 20:11:41 <DavidWHodgins> bug 19935 20:11:46 <marja> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19935 20:11:50 <[mbot> [ Bug 19935 Custom disk partitioning requests BIOS boot partition on non-GPT disk ] 20:11:52 <wilcal> OK all the isos at this time for me are very usable 20:12:08 <stormi> in common situations or corner cases? 20:12:10 <Akien> (note that the bug was renamed to focus on one sub-bug, there are two other open bugs about this thematic) 20:12:18 <marja> this bug is fixed in the Live isos, but not in the CI 20:12:18 <DavidWHodgins> Common 20:12:26 <wilcal> just used the x86_64 Plasma boot.iso in a Vbox install this morning. All went well 20:12:54 <Akien> From what I read, martinw found a fix but only for the Custom partitioning, he says Auto partitioning would still bring the issue 20:13:37 <wilcal> there are issues some of them very serious 20:13:57 <marja> Akien: auto partitioning would needlesly create a BIOS Boot partitition, but as I understood it, not corrupt the partition table 20:14:02 <Akien> On the technical side there are several bugs, though on the user side it's pretty simple: the partitioning can brick the system. So I believe we should try to get martinw, pterjan and tv to discuss it (and ideally fix) asap. 20:14:11 <DavidWHodgins> Apparently a very old bug, but made more obvious by the problem with the bug about asking for a bios partition when one shouldn't be needed 20:14:20 <Akien> (pterjan since he seems to know the partitioning stuff well) 20:14:21 <marja> indeed 20:14:34 <marja> yeah, pterjan is our diskdrake man 20:14:49 <Akien> From what I could see, I also believe that once this issue(s) fixed, sta2 could be released 20:14:51 <ennael> juste asked. Let see if we can some of his time 20:14:59 <marja> ennael: thx 20:15:03 <DavidWHodgins> Akien: Agreed 20:15:11 <wilcal> yes, sta2 must get out there for a wider testing 20:15:25 <wilcal> even with the warts 20:15:27 <Akien> I guess if at least pterjan and martinw could discuss it live, it would go fast. tv might be harder to get for a meeting :p 20:16:07 <Akien> Otherwise, from what I could read on the ML I think the QA team is relatively happy with the current ISOs? 20:16:14 <wilcal> yes 20:16:14 <DavidWHodgins> Yes 20:16:21 <Akien> That's good :D 20:16:21 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 20:16:27 <wilcal> we are a team David 20:16:34 <DavidWHodgins> lol 20:16:35 <marja> and the XFCE iso is nice, too 20:16:59 <wilcal> Much discussion on the live media mix, how many or few 20:17:03 <Akien> BTW on the Mageia 6 topic, stormi had a phone call with tv yesterday, which was quite productive. 20:17:15 <marja> \o/ 20:17:27 <wilcal> the 32-bit XFCE Live-DVD is very attractive 20:17:29 <Akien> Several blockers were fixed or better debugged, so there was some nice progress. 20:17:37 <marja> good 20:18:19 <Akien> Which shows that we need to innovate in our team communication - but that's a topic for another meeting maybe :) 20:18:32 <Akien> #topic Live ISOs set, proposals to discuss and vote on 20:18:59 <Akien> Some mentioned it already, martinw spinned XFCE ISOs as was proposed, and it seems they are nice :) 20:19:02 * ennael thought it was already done :) 20:19:25 <stormi> should be quick 20:19:29 <Akien> Well I think my proposal (Live 64 Plasma, Live 64 GNOME, Live 64 XFCE and Live 32 XFCE) was quite popular 20:19:30 <marja> ennael: we only agreed on asking martin, so far ;-) 20:19:30 <wilcal> IMO 64-bit Plasma & Gnome and 32-bit XFCE is a very nice compact set 20:19:40 <marja> Akien: yes, it was 20:19:44 <DavidWHodgins> I agree with replacing the gnome and kde i586 iso images with one xfce i586 iso. Having a x86_64 xfce iso is ok though I'd prefer to reduce the number of iso images if we can. 20:19:44 <marja> or is 20:20:09 <stormi> It would be hard to justify not having the 64 bit XFCE 20:20:14 <wilcal> IMO the Marketing idea of 3 Live ISO's is very attractive 20:20:32 <DavidWHodgins> ennael: The iso images have been created, but the council hasn't voted yet on the issue 20:20:33 <marja> DavidWHodgins: for marting,it's not really extra work 20:20:36 <stormi> Yes it shows Mageia is not a binary distro with just KDE and GNOME 20:20:45 <filip_> +1 20:21:05 <wilcal> this is one of those 1+1+1=5 Marketing deals 20:21:29 <wilcal> Don't put too much stuff in the box 20:21:40 <filip_> still we can atract XFCE crowd 20:21:52 <Akien> Personally I think a 64-bit XFCE ISO would be quite popular (there are many users with 64-bit who still want a light DE), but I understand if the QA team would prefer only 3 ISOs to test 20:22:08 <wilcal> yes you can always install with with boot.iso and CI 20:22:08 <filip_> there are mayn that run away from Gnome and KDE 20:22:34 <DavidWHodgins> Anyone against adding at least i586 xfce iso? 20:22:44 <papoteur> No 20:22:46 <wilcal> we don't have to make the final decision until later. Develop them all 20:22:52 <marja> I'm all for adding i586 XFCE 20:23:09 <wilcal> 100% support for 32-bit XFCE iso 20:23:10 <marja> (at least) 20:23:16 <DavidWHodgins> Then let's vote A or B. A=i586 only, B=both 20:23:27 <DavidWHodgins> I vote A 20:23:31 <wilcal> A for me 20:23:48 <Akien> I'd like B 20:23:54 <marja> 32bit will run on any 64bit system, right? 20:23:59 <DavidWHodgins> Yes 20:24:02 <wilcal> yes 20:24:05 <Akien> Yeah, but would force a 32-bit install 20:24:07 <marja> (just not use all memory) 20:24:12 <wilcal> there is some preference to do that too 20:24:54 <marja> We can start with A, and do B for sta3 when there's a lot of user demand after sta2 is released 20:25:06 * marja votes for A for now 20:25:07 <Akien> I guess we can say that the Council agree to drop the 32-bit Plasma and GNOME ISOs, and to add a 32-bit XFCE 20:25:19 <filip_> +1 20:25:20 <Akien> Regarding the 64-bit XFCE, I guess the decision should be in the hands of the QA team 20:25:27 <Akien> So maybe a topic for Thursday's meeting? 20:25:27 <stormi> I don't know 20:25:49 <DavidWHodgins> That should be a council decision, since it impacts more than just qa 20:25:57 <filip_> we had 4 lives till recently 20:26:09 <stormi> I don't think 64 bit and 32 bit isos are that different 20:26:23 <Akien> If one works, the other should work too. But that's still two tests to make. 20:26:35 <marja> DavidWHodgins: Martin Whitaker said it wasn't really extra work for him, to create a 64bit XFCE when a 32bit XFCE exists 20:26:37 <stormi> If we don't ship with 64 bit XFCE we're basically saying that it's only for low-end 20:26:45 <papoteur> I vote B 20:26:50 <DavidWHodgins> It's just that adding uefi doubled the number of install tests for each iso, so if we can reduce it, that would help 20:26:57 <Akien> Yeah that's what I wanted to avoid too, for me XFCE is not just for low end. It's a lightweight modern DE. 20:26:59 <stormi> B too if voting is the right thingto do 20:27:13 <filip_> +1 20:27:26 * marja hadn't taken UEFI into account, and changes her vote to B 20:27:57 <wilcal> Is there any other distro with an XFCE Live? 20:28:09 <marja> DavidWHodgins: however, if it's too much work for QA, then just refuse to test it as team 20:28:12 <DavidWHodgins> filip_: You're voting B (Both i586 and x86_64 xfce live iso images? 20:28:27 <filip_> marja: yes 20:29:12 <Akien> I'd say let's take the time to think, and for now let martinw produce 32-bit + 64-bit for sta2. We can decide on the final set later on. 20:29:17 <filip_> DavidWHodgins: sorry, I misread the author. 20:29:29 <Akien> At any rate we agreed about the general direction :) 20:29:37 <marja> :-) 20:29:54 <DavidWHodgins> If I'm counting right, that's a majority for both 20:30:13 <stormi> I think so, but it can be reviewed later if too much QA work 20:30:34 <papoteur> Both is the best, but if we can't, it's OK 20:30:40 <filip_> I guess trying QA and the public can gives us more info 20:30:40 <DavidWHodgins> 4 votes in favour, 3 against 20:31:14 <DavidWHodgins> We can do it, it's just it would have been nice to cut things down if ok with the majority 20:32:02 <DavidWHodgins> Adding gpt support also doubled the number of iso tests 20:32:12 <marja> :-/ 20:32:37 <DavidWHodgins> For each iso we have uefi/bios x mbr/gpt 20:33:11 <DavidWHodgins> So four install tests for each iso, where we used to have one for each 20:33:20 <marja> DavidWHodgins: discuss it with QA team on Thursday... if it's too much work, the 3 Live isos is fine 20:33:22 <stormi> Does it have to be tested all in every ISO? 20:33:36 <filip_> IIRC in the past there was some discusion about some auatomation for QA. what was the result? 20:33:48 <marja> filip_: thx for asking that 20:34:06 <DavidWHodgins> We have had problems in the past, where one iso was missing some package that would cause it to fail in one mode, so each iso really should have all modes tested 20:34:08 <Akien> The install is the same for all lives, so I'd expect that one fully tested ISO should already give a good notion of what works and what doesn't. Though for the final final ISOs, I agree the full battery of tests should likely be done. 20:34:16 <stormi> indeed 20:34:36 <DavidWHodgins> Automated testing can end up being more work to maintain, than the testing it's replacing 20:34:56 <DavidWHodgins> Automated testing doesn't handle minor gui changes very well 20:35:18 <DavidWHodgins> It's fine for command line only testing but very difficult for gui 20:35:38 <filip_> can it handle any of UEFI, GPT combos? 20:36:27 <filip_> at least to check that partitions are still ok and install exits with OK? 20:36:28 <wilcal> back 20:36:29 <DavidWHodgins> As the partitioning is handled by diskdrake during installation, that has to be gui testing 20:37:15 <filip_> DavidWHodgins: thx 20:37:30 <Akien> So, to summarize: 20:37:33 <DavidWHodgins> For uefi, it's pretty much hardware dependent 20:37:51 <Akien> #info 32-bit Live ISOs for Plasma and GNOME are dropped. 32-bit XFCE ISO should replace them. 20:38:03 <Akien> #info 64-bit XFCE ISO should also be considered, final decision pending. 20:38:15 <DavidWHodgins> s /should/will/ 20:38:23 <Akien> Yeah :) 20:38:31 <wilcal> sounds great 20:38:34 <marja> Akien: you can #undo 20:38:48 <Akien> I think it's understandable like that :) 20:38:54 <DavidWHodgins> Yeah. :-) 20:38:55 <marja> :-) 20:39:04 <Akien> Next topic? 20:39:09 <marja> ok 20:39:15 <DavidWHodgins> That's infra 20:39:17 <Akien> #topic Infra: current state and priorities (esp. wiki) 20:39:41 <Akien> IINM neoclust removed the lock on the wiki today, so it's no longer read only 20:39:52 <marja> correct 20:40:10 <Akien> Still, its upgrade should really be made a top priority for the remaining sysadmin forces that we have 20:40:25 <Akien> It's been pending for many years 20:40:41 <marja> indeed 20:40:49 <Akien> So on top of preventing a better workflow for docteam and i18n, it is filled with security vulnerabilities 20:40:59 <Akien> (which may explain some of the spam we're getting?) 20:41:52 <Akien> IINM we have contributors who can help with the config update, but we still need sysadmins to pull the switch 20:42:22 <DavidWHodgins> With an option to fall back, if things don't go well 20:42:31 <marja> well, I haven't heard from our most recent wiki-upgrade volunteer 20:42:47 <marja> and diogenese is too ill to help 20:42:48 <Akien> neoclust is quite busy with bugfixing, pterjan is needed for some drakx fixes, tmb probably doesn't need more pressure... who's left? :) 20:43:59 * marja is afraid she already put too much pressure on our volunteer 20:44:05 <filip_> wasn't Pharaoh_Atem a volunter for sysadmin work in the past? 20:44:42 <marja> Pharaoh_Atem: were you? 20:44:42 <filip_> he seems to know stuff well 20:46:11 <marja> it'll be easier when tmb created a vm for the wiki that someone can have full access to, without automatically having full access to all of mageia.org 20:46:13 <Akien> I guess the wiki upgrade will have to wait a bit more, even if we want to make it a priority I really don't see whom to hand it to in this release hell :/ 20:46:59 <marja> Akien: tmb said he want to work on infra coming weekend, but I don't know whether that includes a separate VM for the wiki 20:47:06 <Akien> It should likely stay a recurring topic on our agenda so that as soon as there is aan opportunity we should ensure it's taken :D 20:47:14 <marja> +1 20:47:17 <stormi> like bugzilla upgrade 20:47:25 <Akien> Indeed. 20:47:48 <Akien> Let's keep in mind that those two points need to be briefly reviewed at each meeting then, like QA's Who's new :p 20:48:22 <marja> stormi: LpSolit prepared it long ago.... is that also waiting for a separate VM (outside puppet controlled parts of Mageia) 20:48:24 <Akien> #action Opportunities (in sysadmin disponibility) for upgrading the wiki and bugzilla should be reviewed at each meeting until we can get them actually upgraded 20:48:25 <marja> ? 20:49:11 <marja> What happened to danf? 20:49:38 <marja> he was getting mentored to become a full Mageia sysadming, wasn't he? 20:49:51 <marja> s/ing/in/ 20:49:52 <filip_> I don't see him much around but I'm seen less two ;) 20:49:57 <wilcal_> nick wilcal 20:50:11 <wilcal_> #nick wilcal 20:50:29 <marja> wilcal_: "/ wilcal" 20:50:34 <marja> without "" 20:50:39 <marja> oops 20:50:47 <marja> wilcal_: "/nick wilcal" 20:51:03 <wilcal> Ahhhh thanks 20:51:04 <Akien> He's still active on the sysadmin ML once a month or so, but I think that since no sysadmin is there to review his changes and finally give him more access, he can't do much 20:51:07 <marja> yw 20:51:51 <marja> Akien: did pterjan forget (assuming he was the mentor), or is he just way too busy? 20:52:28 <Akien> I guess too busy 20:52:41 <marja> he's not on IRC now 20:53:46 <Akien> Next topic I guess? 20:54:01 <DavidWHodgins> fosdem 20:54:01 <marja> there's nothing we can do against lack of time :-( 20:54:02 <Akien> #topic FOSDEM: official communication needed 20:54:09 <Akien> ennael, stormi: 20:54:30 <Akien> So this year we don't have a FOSDEM stand, so it's a bit awkward to invite the community to come to FOSDEM to see us 20:54:40 <Akien> Still, ennael and stormi will be giving a talk about Mageia, so that's one thing 20:54:45 <marja> but we can invite them to the talk https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/mageia_successes_and_lessons/ 20:54:47 <[mbot> [ FOSDEM 2017 - Mageia, successes and lessons learned 6 years after forking ] 20:54:55 <Akien> And various Mageians are still going to FOSDEM, so I think we should communicate about it on the blog asap 20:55:09 <marja> yes 20:55:22 <filip_> +1 20:55:23 <Akien> Maybe plan a community meeting/beer-drinking at some time? 20:55:36 <DavidWHodgins> When is FOSDEM? 20:55:42 <Akien> It's on Feb 4-5 20:55:54 <Akien> So in 2½ weeks 20:56:10 <DavidWHodgins> So that means we should plan for team elections in mid February too then. 20:56:32 <marja> yeah 20:56:54 <marja> Baud started a wiki page, it needs further updating https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Fosdem_2017 20:57:03 <ennael> humpf back 20:57:09 <ennael> sorry connection hickup 20:57:11 <marja> ennael: wb 20:59:14 <Akien> So what should we propose to the community? 20:59:45 <Akien> Meetup at 13:00 on Saturday to eat our sandwiches, drink beer and chat? :) 20:59:58 <ennael> maybe have the room at least to speak on some various topic 21:00:05 <Akien> Yes, sounds good. 21:00:09 <Akien> IRL meetings are great :) 21:00:13 <ennael> yep 21:00:15 <marja> DavidWHodgins: last meeting, ennael suggested to have the GA online with an audio meeting 21:00:36 <ennael> and I have to propose some dates 21:00:44 <marja> so sandwiches and beer right after ennael's and stormi's talk, nice :-) 21:00:45 <DavidWHodgins> Yes, read the log. That's fine with me 21:00:48 <ennael> I will do it here for the council and then we choose 21:01:07 <ennael> marja: will it will depend on the time we can have a room 21:01:18 <marja> ennael: yeah 21:01:52 <ennael> oups s/^will/well/ 21:02:02 <marja> :-) 21:02:49 <ennael> we do have another phone call tomorrow with stormi and Akien to work on this presentation 21:03:43 <marja> ennael: isn't Akien getting a German accent, yet (to more easily know he's he and not his brother)? 21:03:56 <DavidWHodgins> lol 21:04:17 <marja> DavidWHodgins: ennael couldn't tell them apart during the first test meeting 21:04:41 <DavidWHodgins> Which software is being used for the meeting? 21:04:46 <ennael> and they are playing with that 21:04:47 <marja> DavidWHodgins: mumble 21:04:56 <marja> ennael: :-) 21:05:05 <ennael> DavidWHodgins: mumble a bit like grumbl 21:05:23 <DavidWHodgins> :-) 21:05:51 <DavidWHodgins> Audio only, or video too? 21:05:55 <stormi> audio only 21:06:01 <marja> DavidWHodgins: audio 21:06:13 <DavidWHodgins> Good. I don't have to worry about cleaning up this room. :-) 21:06:18 <marja> lol 21:06:26 <wilcal> which delivery service? 21:06:26 * ennael will not have to hide bottles 21:06:34 <marja> :-) 21:07:09 <marja> stormi: did you upgrade to Mga5, yet, or aren't you going to run the server? 21:07:32 <marja> s/yet/already/ 21:08:26 <stormi> Confidential information 21:08:32 <marja> otoh, GAs are public, so why care? 21:12:42 <wilcal> are we still here? 21:12:48 <marja> yeah 21:12:48 <DavidWHodgins> I am 21:13:00 * filip_ 2 21:13:06 <ennael> yep 21:13:32 <marja> and receiving spam during a meeting isn't great, so caring about security during our online sound meeting is ok 21:14:32 <stormi> risk low 21:14:58 <marja> so for Fosdem, we need to communicate about the talk, about the maybe-lunch together..... dinner too? 21:15:19 <marja> and probably about the GA being done online 21:15:32 <filip_> sound nice. but currently out of my budget :( 21:16:07 <marja> ennael: is there budget to invite & pay for filip_ ? 21:16:23 <ennael> yep of course 21:16:36 <marja> filip_: ^^^^ :-) 21:17:11 <marja> filip_: it would be great if we could meet you 21:17:24 <filip_> ennael: that sounds nice but is this budget more valuable in HW? 21:17:54 <ennael> we can do both 21:18:46 <filip_> I can take a look on plain tickets but need some time to plan. this a total surprise for me 21:18:58 <marja> :-) 21:22:31 <marja> did we all fall asleep now? 21:22:55 <DavidWHodgins> Trying to figure out how to avoid feedback in mumble. :-) 21:23:14 <DavidWHodgins> echo cancelation doesn't seem to be enough 21:23:22 <marja> DavidWHodgins: I keep forgetting to buy a headset, so haven't tried it, yet 21:23:42 <DavidWHodgins> I've got one somewhere. Will have to find it 21:24:24 <marja> ennael: Akien: stormi: are we done with the meeting? 21:25:00 <wilcal> I'm done 21:25:02 <DavidWHodgins> Nothing else here 21:25:06 <filip_> should I mail on council with aproximate cost? 21:25:29 <DavidWHodgins> Sure. As long as it's reasonable, I'm ok with it 21:25:38 <marja> filip_: mailing ennael is enough (and ping her when she doesn't see your mail) 21:25:40 <filip_> it's in the order of 200€ 21:25:54 <DavidWHodgins> That's reasonable to me. 21:26:13 <ennael> indeed 21:26:22 <marja> filip_: that's fine.... you'll need a hotel, too... some of us are in hotel Villa Royale 21:26:46 <filip_> marja: what's the cost there? 21:26:59 <marja> filip_: € 120 for two nights 21:27:16 <marja> filip_: breakfast included 21:27:32 <marja> filip_: if you book using stormi's method 21:27:35 <filip_> I'll probably cut to one only 21:27:43 <Akien> sorry semi-afk, but yes I'm done 21:28:02 <ennael> done also 21:28:07 <ennael> was submitting some updates 21:28:07 <marja> (I think stormi's booking site is cheaper than booking.com) 21:29:36 <marja> filip_: he used booked.net 21:30:11 <filip_> marja: I apreciate your offer and info very much! 21:30:13 <stormi> I think it's not possible 21:30:16 <stormi> that it's cheaper 21:31:07 <stormi> because it's booking's contract 21:31:13 <marja> stormi: in that case, the prices went down 21:31:35 <marja> stormi: since last year 21:31:47 <stormi> end of meeting then? 21:31:54 <wilcal> sounds good to me 21:31:55 <marja> yep 21:32:00 <ennael> yep 21:34:37 <DavidWHodgins> Someone #endmeeting then. :-) 21:35:09 <marja> stormi: ennael: Akien: ^^^^ 21:35:17 <Akien> #endmeeting